LarryD

Ok, so the swap is done and trying to start it.. Using a drill, got the oil pressure up to high level. Timed it with EST disconnected by running the starter.. Won't start... Once in a while a little pop but that's it.

Most everything is new or rebuilt, new cam timing chain and gears, lifters, pushrods, distributor assembly, new plugs, new plug wires, oil pump, new knock sensor, valve springs, and on and on. Valves adjusted prior to install in the car with one turn past zero lash.. GM says 1.5 turns, everybody here says 5/8 to 3/4 so I went middle of the road with 1 turn (being conservative I think). Triple and quadruple checked everything.. 100% positive timing gears were properly aligned. Won't start...

Timing light triggers so I am getting spark at number 1 at least. I used the 3.4L injectors and the 3.4L spark plugs.. The only thing of note is that when I turn the key off after trying to start it is that the fuel pump runs about twice as long as it did before the swap. Checked fuel pressure and it holds at 45psi. Stays there during start attempt...

I feel like I am down to one of two problems valves too tight so no compression or the ECM isn't able to trigger the fuel injectors open.. I don't smell excessive fuel like it is flooded...

Anybody got any ideas??

Update: So, I did try some starter fluid in the air intake on the theory it isn't getting gas.. It didn't really sound like it tried to start but it backfired once through the air inlet with a nice little flame... Didn't try that again...

Thanks..................

project89

iTrader: (1)

got the firing order 180* out?
are the sprak plugs wet with fuel ?

3/4 is how the valves should be lashed

LarryD

Hard to say at this point.. I made absolutely sure the timing marks on the new gears were aligned to each other before the timing chain went on with number 1 at TDC.. Set the distributor to number one as shown in all the books..

Pulled the plug on number 6 but didn't see any fuel on it.. Pulling the upper intake now to put a Noid light on the injector leads.. Got fuel pumping out at both the inlet and outlet lines.. Going to run a compression check on driver's side in about an hour (somebody is bringing me a new gauge since mine is lost)...

someone972

iTrader: (2)

Might be a silly question but good to rule out: When you say TDC you did make sure it was TDC on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke, right?

LarryD

I know it has been a long time since I did a full engine rebuild but as far as the crank is concerned, the position at TDC is the same on each revolution. It is the cam that determines which stroke that represents.. With number 1 at TDC, the crank will always have the dot on the gear straight up.. The cam can then be set with the dot towards the crank at the bottom (which should be correct) or it can be set with the dot on the top away from the crank (that would be 180 out). Unless I am totally spaced it should be fine as I aligned them dot to dot pointing directly at each other.. Left the crank there and then dropped in the dizzy with rotor pointing at number 1...

project89

iTrader: (1)

just fpor the hell of it man put the plug wires on 180* out from were they are now and crank it

someone972

iTrader: (2)

I'm not an expert with engines (I just recently did my first engine swap), but this forum suggests that putting them dot to dot on a small block chevy causes timing to be 180 degrees off. You can read through it and determine for yourself if it's correct, since you've got much more experience than I do. http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...hp?tid/198828/

EDIT: I've read a few more sites and it does look like after inserting the cam lined up dot to dot you need to rotate it one revolution to get them both pointing up for TDC on #1, even on 3.4L engines. I wasn't aware of this since we already had the timing cover on my engine so I just stuck my finger in the spark plug hole until it started getting compression and aligned it at it's peak.

LarryD

Well, paint me corrected. I thought I did the last cam this way since its really tough to get it to compression once it is installed. Of course they covered up #1 spark plug hole as much as they could... Will go back and read my Camaro books..

Just did compression on 2, 4, and 6.. I have 165, 150 and 135 front to back.. Note: all new rings and valve job.. #2 and #4 did not appear wet with fuel on the plugs.. Did the Noid light test on each injector bank and get good flashing.. Not sure why 6 would be 135 but then these aren't seated rings...

Hmmm, guess I will compression check 1 (PITA), 3 and 5 both semi-PITA.

LarryD

Nothing wrong with being in-experienced... New eyes often help and it appears to be in this case.. Just found one of my many books that said exactly what you are saying.. Guess you (well me having owned Camaros for more years than I can remember) are never too old to learn new tricks... Now that I think about it, this is the first time I set everything up on an engine stand to drop in the car run ready so did it by alignment.. In the past I guess I always used the compression test to get it to TDC.. I stand humbly corrected... Thanks a bunch...

Will let you know how it turns out...

LarryD

Ok, thanks again.. That got it... Started and got the initial timing set to about 8 degrees or so.. Got it up to rpm for the initial 20 minute breakin... Got pretty hot but the gauge said it seemed to hit 245 and then drop back to 220 with the fan kicking in...

So, bottom line is that it was the timing out 180... Should have read closer in some of the books on setting it without using compression.. Lesson learned...

project89

iTrader: (1)

most common mistake when building or installing a new engine and trying to fire it for the first time is " timing 180* out "

Gfunkill

yea, when i did mine, I flat out didn't know that when the dots on the cam and the dots on the crank are facing each other, it's not TDC for #1. Between that and having two spark plug wires crossed (DOH!) I burned up a starter in the process of elimination.