Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
dont use auto tune under boost its defualt setting is 14.7 afr .
i downloaded ur log but my friend showed up on his dirtbike and was like lets go so i been out riding all day , i ust got home and holy crap am i sore , soon as i relax a bit and get some food ill take a look
since u have a small turbo 12.0 afr is ok till around 5-7 psi but anymore and ur going to want 11.5, specially the hotter the air gets , the richer mixture wont detonate as easy
i downloaded ur log but my friend showed up on his dirtbike and was like lets go so i been out riding all day , i ust got home and holy crap am i sore , soon as i relax a bit and get some food ill take a look
since u have a small turbo 12.0 afr is ok till around 5-7 psi but anymore and ur going to want 11.5, specially the hotter the air gets , the richer mixture wont detonate as easy
I know AE is going to need to be tweaked, but it seems alright for now, it doesnt stumble when I rev the car. The VE table definately needs work, but like I said, I can really only work on the idle until I drive it and put it under load. First Ill work on the non-boost parts of the map driving normally. Then Ill work on the WOT and boost parts of the map.
Ill be posting my logs on here and the Msextra forums.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
This mother f****** c********** oil return keeps leaking around the gasket! New gasket, copper seal, doesnt matter what I do. It just keeps on leaking. Checked the flanges with a straightedge none are warped.
I just bent the ears out on the flange and this time im using high temp rtv in a thin layer, if this doesnt work I give up. Also how is a non pressurized line leaking? It leaks at idle, and no crankcase pressure whatsoever.
I just bent the ears out on the flange and this time im using high temp rtv in a thin layer, if this doesnt work I give up. Also how is a non pressurized line leaking? It leaks at idle, and no crankcase pressure whatsoever.
#1303
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Originally Posted by willexoIX
Also how is a non pressurized line leaking? It leaks at idle, and no crankcase pressure whatsoever...
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
I know Dave said I could run into a problem with the direction of the crankshaft rotation, but I cut the bung on an angle to prevent that so I dont really see that happening to be honest.
Like I said I bent the ears on the flange away from the base, and this time im using high temp red rtv in a thin layer on both sides of the gasket, just waiting for the turbo to cool.
#1305
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Originally Posted by willexoIX
No oil restrictor...
http://www.racingpartdepot.com/servl...il-Feed/Detail
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
I think you are correct. Just started it for literally 4 seconds to see if the oil return line is backing up and its not. However it was POURING out of the turbo, lol. See pic.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Pic. 1/2 inch return line. Learn something new everyday. I probably never would have figured that out. Ill look around and see if I cant find one local before ordering online.
Last edited by willexoIX; 06-09-2014 at 12:59 PM.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Quick ?
Whats a good size hole for the V6s higher oil pressure?
Whats a good size hole for the V6s higher oil pressure?
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
3/16 line does not need a restrictor , i do not use a restrictor on my v6 car and it makes 105 psi of oil presure , i use a -3 line which is 3/16's , no restictors on my v8 with -4 feeds and hvhp pump
a restrictor and 3/16's line will oil starve the turbo
a restrictor and 3/16's line will oil starve the turbo
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
I might be mistaken on the feed line, I think I got 1/4 inch and not 3/16th. So there needs to be a restriction or I will constantly leak oil out of the return flange. Determining the size of the restriction I need might be a problem. All I know is after thinking and looking at everything, I NEED a restriction, the return cant handle the volume of oil, which is why no matter what I do, it leaks.
Gotta remember too Dave, Im using a different turbo than you did, so yours may have had the restrictions built in, as some turbos do. Mine however has no restriction, hence the constant oil return leak. There is definitely too much pressure even at 40psi of oil pressure. I would estimate at least 30psi of oil pressure coming out of the return; it was virtually spraying out of the turbo with the return off.
Im gonna do some research. Its possible that because it was a diesel turbo, the oiling may or may not be different than most turbos.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Here is a snippet I found here:http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/faq
Q. Does my turbo require an oil restrictor?
A. Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing. The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage. Remember to address all other potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.) and use a restrictor as a last resort. Garrett distributors can tell you the recommended range of acceptable oil pressures for your particular turbo. Restrictor size will always depend on how much oil pressure your engine is generating-there is no single restrictor size suited for all engines. Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo. The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.
Looks like I need to contact a Garrett Distributor, or do some extensive googling...
Q. Does my turbo require an oil restrictor?
A. Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing. The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage. Remember to address all other potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.) and use a restrictor as a last resort. Garrett distributors can tell you the recommended range of acceptable oil pressures for your particular turbo. Restrictor size will always depend on how much oil pressure your engine is generating-there is no single restrictor size suited for all engines. Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo. The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.
Looks like I need to contact a Garrett Distributor, or do some extensive googling...
#1313
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Will, .062 is the standard restrictor orifice size for the Garrett journal bearing turbo. You definitely need a restrictor, and anybody telling you that you don't need one, while oil is backing up and spewing out of your turbo is a little off of their rocker. You asked for a general size of a restrictor for the V6 engine, and every turbo V6 GN owner that I know, with varying engine configurations and return lines, runs that very size restrictor until they upgrade to a ball bearing turbo. Your turbo will not starve with a restrictor, as that is what they are there for in the first place, to slow the pressure down. The oil simply doesn't bypass the center section, the center section is designed internally to allow for the oil to coat what it needs to creating it's own little backup, it will not starve the turbo lol...
#1314
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Will, .062 is the standard restrictor orifice size for the Garrett journal bearing turbo. You definitely need a restrictor, and anybody telling you that you don't need one, while oil is backing up and spewing out of your turbo is a little off of their rocker. You asked for a general size of a restrictor for the V6 engine, and every turbo V6 GN owner that I know, with varying engine configurations and return lines, runs that very size restrictor until they upgrade to a ball bearing turbo. Your turbo will not starve with a restrictor, as that is what they are there for in the first place, to slow the pressure down. The oil simply doesn't bypass the center section, the center section is designed internally to allow for the oil to coat what it needs to creating it's own little backup, it will not starve the turbo lol...
I understand that the drainback is a gravity drain system, but for that much oil pressure to come out of the drain worries me, hence the need for a restrictor. I have also read that it should be a somewhat frothy mixture of air and oil coming out of the drain, which I can definitively say it was not, makes me wonder about what the internal oiling system looks like on this particular turbo.
By the way, this turbo is one of the earliest turbos developed for a diesel application, though this is off a 300SD Merc from 85, whereas the original first turbo on said vehicle was on the 74 model, So I am researching as best I can on this particular turbo model.
I will order the restrictor, .062. Once I get it and install it, I will check how the drain does with the return off. Though I trust you about an issue such as the current one, Im sure there may be some differences in the turbos at hand(GN and other such Garrett turbos).
I guess I just havent found enough info on this particular turbo(Which is a Garrett by the way). I think I read somewhere that it is a TAO 314 or something of the like. When I remember where I found the info, Ill post it up.
Looks like the car sits for a few more days, though at least not up on those damn jackstands, lol.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Lol. I have this sneaking suspicion that once I put that restrictor in, Im gonna have to redo my oil feed line. It has the high pressure FI clamps on it, But I guess Ill be the first to find out!
My new remflex exhaust manifold gaskets will probably be here before the restrictor, so hopefully Ill have those on and buttoned up once I get the restrictor. Hopefully no more tick tick tick tick, lol.
Ill update in a couple days guys, Dave let me know how that log looks.
My new remflex exhaust manifold gaskets will probably be here before the restrictor, so hopefully Ill have those on and buttoned up once I get the restrictor. Hopefully no more tick tick tick tick, lol.
Ill update in a couple days guys, Dave let me know how that log looks.
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
My 2 cents... I never used a restrictor on the oil feed. neither on that t3/4 one or the gt3582. Im not saying its suppose to be that way but I never had any issues with the oil feeds or returns. To be honest no one said I needed one when I first started the build so I just tossed on the lines like they were.
In your case if your backing the oil up like you are...then toss a resitrictor in there. Im no expert to say the least....
In your case if your backing the oil up like you are...then toss a resitrictor in there. Im no expert to say the least....
Last edited by fasteddi; 06-09-2014 at 04:40 PM.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Yea no body told me about using one as well. But I guess they are needed in certain situations.
Last edited by willexoIX; 06-09-2014 at 04:49 PM.
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Yea but firing mine up with the return oil line off told me I def need a restrictor. Remember Im not using the same turbo as you guys as well. I would estimate if I left it run with the return off the oil pan would be empty within a minute. Its just too much volume for the return to handle. Which is why I cant stop the leak.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
And yes I took the plug out before I put the line on, lmao
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Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Ahh no pressure blowing out or anything? That's good. There's a baffle in there and I forgot its placement but know if you have the bung misplaces it can cause some major oil return issues.
Im betting the oil restrictor will help a lot.
Im betting the oil restrictor will help a lot.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Yea no pressure, oil or anything. The bung is above the baffle. Remember I took my pan off, welded the bung, then sandblasted and powdercoated it. Seems like the restrictor is the right fix. Sometimes you need one, sometimes you dont seems to be the consensus.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
So since I have time while Im waiting for that stuff to come in, Ill be working on wiring up the MS power switch and launch control switch in the switch panel. Along with re-running my amp power wire back to the passenger side from the drivers side. Then running a power wire to the inverter Im going to run under the passenger seat for the laptop.
Lots of little things to get done over the next few days, Ill update soon.
Lots of little things to get done over the next few days, Ill update soon.
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
So since I have time while Im waiting for that stuff to come in, Ill be working on wiring up the MS power switch and launch control switch in the switch panel. Along with re-running my amp power wire back to the passenger side from the drivers side. Then running a power wire to the inverter Im going to run under the passenger seat for the laptop.
Lots of little things to get done over the next few days, Ill update soon.
Lots of little things to get done over the next few days, Ill update soon.
did u build the launch control input circut in the proto area?
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Yea, I just have to jumper the wire from the proto circuit to the harness then connect it to the switch. That and the MS power through a switch will let me prime the turbo before the car actually starts. Once thats taken care of then I need to replace the cig lighter in the dash, then run the cig lighter in the switch panel from the one in the dash and through the last switch for the usb plug I put in. Itll be TCC, MS power, Launch control, IC fan, and USB plug power. Thatll take care of all the switches.
Should I be worried about blowing the muffler up with the launch control? LOL
Should I be worried about blowing the muffler up with the launch control? LOL
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Yea, I just have to jumper the wire from the proto circuit to the harness then connect it to the switch. That and the MS power through a switch will let me prime the turbo before the car actually starts. Once thats taken care of then I need to replace the cig lighter in the dash, then run the cig lighter in the switch panel from the one in the dash and through the last switch for the usb plug I put in. Itll be TCC, MS power, Launch control, IC fan, and USB plug power. Thatll take care of all the switches.
Should I be worried about blowing the muffler up with the launch control? LOL
Should I be worried about blowing the muffler up with the launch control? LOL
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
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Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
do u have a cutout installed before the muffler , if so that will cut down on the explosion risk alot
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Ill only use the launch control with an open downpipe then.
Hey dont think ill have any exhaust leaks with these gaskets
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Ok, so I figured I may as well pull the passenger side turbo header off to check and im glad I did. There are about 7 leaking welds on it, including the turbo flange.
I looked over the turbo real good to make sure all that oil volume didnt blow a seal, and it didnt. I installed the restrictor on the oil feed. Unfortunately I have some welding to do to fix the passenger side header. And of course the wrap was destroyed so until I get funds to buy another roll of the wrap and a can of coating, the car wont be running. So thats pretty much an entire roll of 50ft heat wrap wasted along with 2 cans of coating because of, well you already know why.
Will update whenever I get funds. When ever that will be.
I looked over the turbo real good to make sure all that oil volume didnt blow a seal, and it didnt. I installed the restrictor on the oil feed. Unfortunately I have some welding to do to fix the passenger side header. And of course the wrap was destroyed so until I get funds to buy another roll of the wrap and a can of coating, the car wont be running. So thats pretty much an entire roll of 50ft heat wrap wasted along with 2 cans of coating because of, well you already know why.
Will update whenever I get funds. When ever that will be.
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Ok, so I figured I may as well pull the passenger side turbo header off to check and im glad I did. There are about 7 leaking welds on it, including the turbo flange.
I looked over the turbo real good to make sure all that oil volume didnt blow a seal, and it didnt. I installed the restrictor on the oil feed. Unfortunately I have some welding to do to fix the passenger side header. And of course the wrap was destroyed so until I get funds to buy another roll of the wrap and a can of coating, the car wont be running. So thats pretty much an entire roll of 50ft heat wrap wasted along with 2 cans of coating because of, well you already know why.
Will update whenever I get funds. When ever that will be.
I looked over the turbo real good to make sure all that oil volume didnt blow a seal, and it didnt. I installed the restrictor on the oil feed. Unfortunately I have some welding to do to fix the passenger side header. And of course the wrap was destroyed so until I get funds to buy another roll of the wrap and a can of coating, the car wont be running. So thats pretty much an entire roll of 50ft heat wrap wasted along with 2 cans of coating because of, well you already know why.
Will update whenever I get funds. When ever that will be.
run without the wrap for now it will minimize the cracking
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Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Run it as is. You dont need the wrap that bad.
#1332
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Originally Posted by willexoIX
I looked over the turbo real good to make sure all that oil volume didnt blow a seal, and it didnt. I installed the restrictor on the oil feed.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Don't forget those check valves, as pressurizing the oil pan through the valve covers will essentially create the same effect, it will be like the returning oil is hitting a brick wall. Speaking of which, remember we were discussing the stock check valve in the brake booster? Just checked mine the other day, and it was broke. So never take anything for granted, and build your project the right way, cover all your bases, and it will last for you Will...
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Alright guys, dont yank my arm or anything, lol. Ill get it back on today. Just gotta clean up the weld I did on the inside of the turbo flange and get those exhaust gaskets on. Hoping the rain cooperates today.
Guess my initial goal of getting more heat energy to the turbo was more detrimental than anything.
Guess my initial goal of getting more heat energy to the turbo was more detrimental than anything.
#1335
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Well its running, and sounds much better. Slight exhaust leak but I believe its the vband by the muffler echoing up to the engine bay, cause you cant hear it till you are right up on the motor.
Ill take it out in a little bit for logs and tuning.
Ill take it out in a little bit for logs and tuning.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Well took it to the store, or tried to. Holy crap when that boost kicks in, wow! Idle was a little low and when I stopped at a stop sign, while I was waiting it stalled. Would not start back up, tried for about 3 or so minutes. Pushed it off the road, turned the key and it started right up. Im clueless at this point.
While the hood was popped, I heard what sounded like a loose rocker rattling, so I babied it home to find out it was the PCV valve, its rattling loud as hell. Other than that, the oil return is STILL leaking....
While the hood was popped, I heard what sounded like a loose rocker rattling, so I babied it home to find out it was the PCV valve, its rattling loud as hell. Other than that, the oil return is STILL leaking....
#1337
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Ok well here is the thing that I question.... Now if the gaskets are good, everything is flat and tightened correctly, and the fittings are sealed up good to the hose, then it shouldnt leak even if you had 50Psi in that return line. I understand that the return oil is just a gravity return but still it shouldnt leak even if there was pressure in there unless some gasket or the fitting is not sealed up o
#1338
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Originally Posted by willexoIX
While the hood was popped, I heard what sounded like a loose rocker rattling, so I babied it home to find out it was the PCV valve, its rattling loud as hell. Other than that, the oil return is STILL leaking...
Last edited by Street Lethal; 06-16-2014 at 05:12 PM.
#1339
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Originally Posted by willexoIX
Idle was a little low and when I stopped at a stop sign, while I was waiting it stalled. Would not start back up, tried for about 3 or so minutes. Pushed it off the road, turned the key and it started right up. Im clueless at this point...
#1340
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Ok well here is the thing that I question.... Now if the gaskets are good, everything is flat and tightened correctly, and the fittings are sealed up good to the hose, then it shouldnt leak even if you had 50Psi in that return line. I understand that the return oil is just a gravity return but still it shouldnt leak even if there was pressure in there unless some gasket or the fitting is not sealed up o
Will, if you are still leaking the same way, meaning just as much, with a restrictor no less, then there are only two possible culprits. One, the area you chose for the return is too restrictive, as you you need to drain your oil just above the oil line, not directly into the oil, or two, you either forgot to remove the plastic debris cap from the turbo before installing the return line with fitting, or the return line itself has something in it causing a backup, or it is too restrictive in itself. I myself am now draining the return oil right into the timing chain cover, didn't even bother with the oil pan. You'll figure it out, keep at it...
Make sure your Initial SA matches your spark reference, then make sure your Idle SA matches your SA main table in that RPM/KPA area. Datalog and see where your IAC steps are, and if they are where they are needed to be, then add fuel in the VE table in those cells. Are you running any VE Learns yet?
I had a whole lot of problems with the ICM, rotor phasing, you name it, that we thought were completely squared away before I started teardown for the turbo install.
Ill post a log up later for you to take a look at if you want. Still learning tuning so feel free to give any advice
I know Ill get it figured out eventually, but at least those damn exhaust leaks are gone. Lol.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
So I took a look at the PCV valve, and it definitely wasnt sealing under boost, spring is pretty much shot in it, but I cleaned it for now till I can source a local check valve and grab a replacment. It seals with only a minute, and I mean tiny, leak for now till I can stop by napa.
The brake booster check valve I can do at a later date cause, well, Im not going to be boosting while im trying to stop, lol. Im going to also try to get larger hose for the return line along with larger barb fittings for the oil pan. If I need to I will enlarge the opening on the barb fittings until the problem is alleviated.
Im comparing tuner studio to megatune, and Ill be honest, I think I like tuner studio more. Gonna start using that cause with the last MS1 update, pretty sure megatune isnt supported anymore. Tuner studio is similar to megatune, but I think I like the interface in tuner studio more. Just gotta fix the bugs in the config file from loading my msq.
Hopefully Ill have some logs tomorrow to post up.
Edit- I couldnt resist when I drove it. Gave it 3/4 throttle through 1st and 2nd and the trans held it great. I know its not a high power setup, but aside from the little things it pulls hard and runs great. As long as its not stalling, lol.
The brake booster check valve I can do at a later date cause, well, Im not going to be boosting while im trying to stop, lol. Im going to also try to get larger hose for the return line along with larger barb fittings for the oil pan. If I need to I will enlarge the opening on the barb fittings until the problem is alleviated.
Im comparing tuner studio to megatune, and Ill be honest, I think I like tuner studio more. Gonna start using that cause with the last MS1 update, pretty sure megatune isnt supported anymore. Tuner studio is similar to megatune, but I think I like the interface in tuner studio more. Just gotta fix the bugs in the config file from loading my msq.
Hopefully Ill have some logs tomorrow to post up.
Edit- I couldnt resist when I drove it. Gave it 3/4 throttle through 1st and 2nd and the trans held it great. I know its not a high power setup, but aside from the little things it pulls hard and runs great. As long as its not stalling, lol.
Last edited by willexoIX; 06-16-2014 at 10:04 PM.
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
So I took a look at the PCV valve, and it definitely wasnt sealing under boost, spring is pretty much shot in it, but I cleaned it for now till I can source a local check valve and grab a replacment. It seals with only a minute, and I mean tiny, leak for now till I can stop by napa.
The brake booster check valve I can do at a later date cause, well, Im not going to be boosting while im trying to stop, lol. Im going to also try to get larger hose for the return line along with larger barb fittings for the oil pan. If I need to I will enlarge the opening on the barb fittings until the problem is alleviated.
Im comparing tuner studio to megatune, and Ill be honest, I think I like tuner studio more. Gonna start using that cause with the last MS1 update, pretty sure megatune isnt supported anymore. Tuner studio is similar to megatune, but I think I like the interface in tuner studio more. Just gotta fix the bugs in the config file from loading my msq.
Hopefully Ill have some logs tomorrow to post up.
Edit- I couldnt resist when I drove it. Gave it 3/4 throttle through 1st and 2nd and the trans held it great. I know its not a high power setup, but aside from the little things it pulls hard and runs great. As long as its not stalling, lol.
The brake booster check valve I can do at a later date cause, well, Im not going to be boosting while im trying to stop, lol. Im going to also try to get larger hose for the return line along with larger barb fittings for the oil pan. If I need to I will enlarge the opening on the barb fittings until the problem is alleviated.
Im comparing tuner studio to megatune, and Ill be honest, I think I like tuner studio more. Gonna start using that cause with the last MS1 update, pretty sure megatune isnt supported anymore. Tuner studio is similar to megatune, but I think I like the interface in tuner studio more. Just gotta fix the bugs in the config file from loading my msq.
Hopefully Ill have some logs tomorrow to post up.
Edit- I couldnt resist when I drove it. Gave it 3/4 throttle through 1st and 2nd and the trans held it great. I know its not a high power setup, but aside from the little things it pulls hard and runs great. As long as its not stalling, lol.
whats the timing look like at ow rpm in the spark map ? i just assembled a brand new computer today so i lost ur tune files
if its stalling at idle when comming to a stop and idle speed is high enough u need more spark advance to hold against the converter to keep the rpm from dropping
#1345
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Idle varies from 900-1100 in park. In gear its around 750-800, but if it drops lower than that it stalls. Here is my current MSQ.
at 700 rpm it goes from 18-21 from 30kpa-70kpa. next is 1300rpm goes from 18-22 from same kpa. 500rpm goes from 16-13 from 30-70kpa.
What I gather is I would need to move the values in the 500rpm column up closer to the values in the 700rpm column, or am I bumping both columns up a little for idle? Its 500-700-1300 for the first 3 rpm columns. I also noticed the table is only going up to 200kpa, shouldnt it be going up to 250kpa?
at 700 rpm it goes from 18-21 from 30kpa-70kpa. next is 1300rpm goes from 18-22 from same kpa. 500rpm goes from 16-13 from 30-70kpa.
What I gather is I would need to move the values in the 500rpm column up closer to the values in the 700rpm column, or am I bumping both columns up a little for idle? Its 500-700-1300 for the first 3 rpm columns. I also noticed the table is only going up to 200kpa, shouldnt it be going up to 250kpa?
Last edited by willexoIX; 06-17-2014 at 11:12 AM.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Heres what im putting on the return today. Dont know why I went so small on the barb to begin with but looking back, thats def whats restricting it. Ill pull it all off and redo it and report back. Still need to take a run out to napa to see what check valves they have.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Got the bigger barbs, 3/4 inch, along with 3/4 inch ID hose, both on the car. Have to wait for the 24 hour cure time for the high temp rtv on the return flange. Hopefully this time it wont leak.
Doing reading on the return lines, seems like 1 inch ID is the most commonly used return line. Hoping the 3/4 works though. If not its up to 1 inch. Will update soon.
Doing reading on the return lines, seems like 1 inch ID is the most commonly used return line. Hoping the 3/4 works though. If not its up to 1 inch. Will update soon.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Any tips for a 3/8 inch barb vacuum/boost check valve? Couldnt get it locally and nobody had any idea that they made them that big...
Anyone have a link on what they are using on thier boosted setup? Could probably use 5/16 barbs with hose clamps, but couldnt even find that size. Guy with a turbo neon said to do a catch can, I said why would I do that when I can just install a check valve? He had nothing to say to that, lol.
I dont want to order one online to find out it doesnt work/is crappy. Cause if the crankcase is pressurizing, then I dont want to drive it until I get that valve cause that means Id have to pull the return oil flange off again. Even though its easy to do, its still getting annoying quick.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#4610k17/=sgpop4 how about this? I wont be running over 20psi.
EDIT- On second thought I might just go with 2 of these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-GM-OEM-12-13-Impala-Check-Valve-20861501-/261442802546?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cdf349372&vxp=mtr
thoughts?
Anyone have a link on what they are using on thier boosted setup? Could probably use 5/16 barbs with hose clamps, but couldnt even find that size. Guy with a turbo neon said to do a catch can, I said why would I do that when I can just install a check valve? He had nothing to say to that, lol.
I dont want to order one online to find out it doesnt work/is crappy. Cause if the crankcase is pressurizing, then I dont want to drive it until I get that valve cause that means Id have to pull the return oil flange off again. Even though its easy to do, its still getting annoying quick.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#4610k17/=sgpop4 how about this? I wont be running over 20psi.
EDIT- On second thought I might just go with 2 of these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-GM-OEM-12-13-Impala-Check-Valve-20861501-/261442802546?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cdf349372&vxp=mtr
thoughts?
Last edited by willexoIX; 06-18-2014 at 12:45 PM.
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Another Turbo 2.8 in progress
Well Im no help. But since im a speed density set up and dont need to account for all the air to have a good idle, I ran a breather for a few years and now I have a catch can set up out of the valve covers. The only check valve I have is for my brakes and its stock. Never had a issue. I never had to drain the catch can i have yet. Not sure if its a good set up but works great to make sure that the oil gets caught. And also that all the blow by pressure can get out quick without too much restirction. But then again i better not have a terrible amount of blow by yet on this fresh engine.
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Well Im no help. But since im a speed density set up and dont need to account for all the air to have a good idle, I ran a breather for a few years and now I have a catch can set up out of the valve covers. The only check valve I have is for my brakes and its stock. Never had a issue. I never had to drain the catch can i have yet. Not sure if its a good set up but works great to make sure that the oil gets caught. And also that all the blow by pressure can get out quick without too much restirction. But then again i better not have a terrible amount of blow by yet on this fresh engine.
I went ahead and bought 2 of the GM check valves. Though I want to start the car and see if the increased size of the return lines stopped the leak, Im going to wait on the check valves to come in. Estimated delivery is tuesday, so Ill update then when they come in. For the brake booster, ill just put another brake booster check valve inline with the stock one. Thatll have to do for now cause im ready to tune this thing already.
Hey Dave, what do you think about what I said about the SA around the idle rpm?
Last edited by willexoIX; 06-18-2014 at 05:41 PM.