fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

well its about guns so its ok..

The turbos coming soon, i got everything to burn chips from AM91camaroRS last night so as soon as that stuff gets here ill be attempting to data log and make some chips up. Once i got the hang of that ill get on tossing the turbo on. I need to figure out that tuning stuff though, that shi# is complicated!! Aldl cable should be here by friday from aldlcables.com so then i can dive in a data log and see whats going on in that ECU. It suxs here in ohio right now...cold and crappy out. So i hope its decent out so i can data log this weekend!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Boost code isn't as difficult as it seems, especially with the '7730. Been there, done that, but will honestly never go back to that again though, way too time consuming. It's good though that you desired to learn everything from the ground up...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yea I figured I might as well learn how to tune the (long way) but its cheeper, under 100 bucks and i got everything i needed. Ill just try to tune for the cam and ported heads(its running fat rich right now) definitly too little vaccum that the MAP is reading since the mods. Then once that tuning is ok, Ill dive into the turbo and tuning for that. Im sure there alot of flustration ahead of me!

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Well another crappy cold day in ohio, i ended up getting a cheep g-tech, im still waiting on that aldl cable and burning equiptment. But realized today that there is shipping through usps on saturday!! That made my day, now i know the stuff will be here by the weekend!!! I ended up useing the g-tech thing on my daily driver...2002 buick lesabre.. It ave between 16.8-17.0 in the 1/4 times(5 runs).. The factory claims 16.5 in the 1/4 mile but this car has like 200k miles on it.

I guess its sorta close but really i got it as another tuning device that will help me have a base line when tuning and upgrading parts to see the progress. It sure was fun to beat the pis* outa the buick though!!!

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Well since the aldl cable and burner stuff wont be here till tommorow and it was somewhat sunny i thought id try to see if i can get a base line with the g-tech today.... i swear this car never had the traction problems it has now. Its so hard to not spin. It was sorta cold 40* out and sunny so there is not much heat in the road at all!!

I managed to get a 16.18 1/4 but still spun the tires, and after 5 runs averaged 16.46 in the 1/4. !!!Keep in mind that all of this is for a base line, to see progress. And not to use the #'s as real 1/4 mile times!!! The mph's varried from 80.7-87.7 so you can see i was having tractions issuse. I never made a launch without having to let off the pedel to stop spinning. So that base line approach is harder then i though.

I did get a decent base line from the Hp indicator since the launch doesnt matter, I ave. 98Hp. Which is funny...but i guess if it includes the drag and loss from the drive line, its a good figure to tune with and see if it increase. The Hp #'s were from 96-102 so there wasnt much of a difference there.

34blazer

are you tracking your AF/R when you hammer on it? since youre using SD, the ecm has no way of knowing that you increased the VE of the engine. it still thinks the engine is stock with a stock cam. its prolly running really lean at the top end. a wideband is a great investment, and the one i am using has built in accellerometers, you should sell the gtech and get one of these.....


http://14point7.com/SLC-Pure-Plus-2.php

then you can patch the output to the 7730 and datalog with it too

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Agreed, even before you start burning your own chips, I would have at least invested in an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and wideband, this way you can monitor your fueling at idle, part throttle and wide open throttle, and upped the fuel when needed. At wide open throttle you have no O2 correction, and you more than likely are in fact running too lean...

freaky

i got 07:34 sec. for your 0-60 mph run ...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

If i get a wide band can i just use the aldl pach cable and data log that with tuner pro??? Got any sites where a wide ban is somewhat affordable??

The g-tech was dirt dirt cheep.. literly.. so im gonna hold on to that thing just for fun.

I do have a AFP regulator but didnt put it on yet as i have no idea whats going on with the motor. Im still not understanding how changing VE tables on a bin file change the performance.

If i upped the VE values on the tables, what exactly does the ECU change?

Sorry but i can not find a straight answer for this and cant move on in learning with out understanding what that does to the engine.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Since you got me thinking about the WB o2 sensor i was looking arround... as i understand they would be a 3 wire WB o2 sensor. The ones i was looking at all had a pig tail fitting on the end.. Now those 2 extra wires are just go to the ground and 12+ right>? To power the lil heater in the sensor. Wow some of those sensors are $$.

So the question is, has anyone found a universal one that just has the 3 wires bare on it? So i can just cut the old pig tail of the old o2 sensor reuse that and then jsut wire up the other 2 wires on the new sensor to the + and the -..

And since it was brought up i should install that AFP regulator I have. Not sure exactly how to remove the old and install the new but it cant be too hard. Just reset the psi to 44.5psi or so?? Thats about what stock is when its not started right?

You all probly think im an idiot sometimes but im really trying to learn some of this stuff. Ive had to learn alot when it comes to this so dont laugh at my post too much since i have so many question.

34blazer

widebands are usually 5 wire and you can get them for around 60 bux. if you get the PP2 he will include the sensor for 50. there are others out there like the AEM that you can get for around 200 or less. it also depends what adx you are using and if it has a patch in the code to see the output from the WBO2 controller. and you need the controller for free air calibrations and such. changing the VE tables in the code determines how much fuel is caculated for that particular cell. generally a more aggressive cam will need the values in the lower VE table reduced as compared to the stock cam and increased in the upper VE tables. and since its pulling less vacuum than the stocker, the ecm thinks its under more load and thats why it runs fat at idle. once you can datalog you can see where the idle vac is at and go from there. an adjustable FPR may be able to help but only across a broad scale. if you increase it to add fuel at the top end, the mid and lower rpms will be way too fat and suffer.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the info!!! Ok heres another Q's What is ADX? The adal cable i got was from adalcables.com.
Thanks for the info on the VE tables!!!!! I though those were the fuel add/sub table but wasnt sure. Im sure its lean too and its so rich at idle. Ill look more into the wide band o2 sensor, and what one i can afford. What are the 4 extra wires for?? What do they go to on the car???

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I know what the ads file is but not adx? sorry im lost on that

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Nevermind about the adx file i just answered my own question, ADX is the same logging file as my ads one i have, except the adx can be used on tp version 5 which is what ive got.. sorry for the dumb responce on the other post.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Note that a WB O2 sensor requires a controller. Can't just hook up the sensor to the ECM. The five wires are for:

Heater +
Heater -
Pump current
Reference cell
Pump/ref ground

For the VE values, a higher VE creates a larger PW and vice-versa. Basically, you need to rough in the fueling to get it closer, then work on SA to make power.

RBob.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

ok thanks agian for the info!! You have saved me alot of flustration thus far tuning.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok Ive been working on the VE tables for a good week and am getting the hang of it. Hopefully its nice tommorow(40 degrees and sunny out) I plan to datalog again. Ive was on excel for like 3 straght hours yesterday.

If my BLM averages are ok, how do I know if i need to adjust the spark advance tables?? I checked my knock sensor today and it works, i hit the block next to the sensor with a hammer lightly....what a way to test it, it sure did show the spark knock count when doing that. Ive never read any spark knock on tunerpro yet while dataloging. I got the base timing prettty high. 17* Thats where it idles really good.

Another question, do i just keep adding spark slightly till i get spark knock? Theres not too much info on this subject for $88 masks and exspecially V6's with speed density.

One more question, if i could get this 02 sensor would it work ok for WOT tuning? http://compare.ebay.com/like/2006953..._lwgsi=y&cbt=y

I know I can mod. my ADX file to add the values of the WB o2 sensor but am not sure how to hook it to the ECU pin out. Would i just have to use the NB 02 for the ECU and the WB 02 for my own reference for tuning?
Sorry for all the questions, in still a newbe

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok the VE tables are done and as good as can be. It was 50# outside today so i added a slight amount of fuel at WOT so i could feel better about going WOT since im sure its lean but i dont have a WB o2 sensor yet to monitor and change those values.

I made some videos, just playing arround a bit. Enjoy and dont laugh too much!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONgxs...6u2DlcHB5XGFW2 1/4 mile...lol

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHdR6itcVOw 1/4 mile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQyk6ybBA5M sideways.. i tried

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyS7LjJih1E data log .lil laptop

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Idling much much smoother, good job on the tuning...

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Looking better all the time. You could set up a mount for the cam just over your shoulder and include the tach in the shot. I got the logging stuff connected for the first time yesterday but I'm way behind you at the moment. Keep the vids coming.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yea it definitly idles much more smoother streatleathal!!

I think its over for a bit here, snows coming and so is winter so no more driving for a bit but i need to read up on WOT tuning anyways and get a WB 02 sensor before spring time and the raceing season. You dont wana look at my tach anyways, unless its on the data log(laptop). The tach is off like 1000 rpms at 5500rpms...And at idle it says 1200 but is really idleing at 850Rpms

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

If you ever attempt a boost code while she is down and waiting for the warmer weather, remember that it is a matter of rescaling the MAP for either a 2-Bar or 3-Bar MAP sensor, tuning wide open throttle (TPS x RPM), then of course monitoring your O2 correction at part throttle and making the PW changes where and whenever necessary. Select your injectors based on how much horsepower your shooting for, and try to keep duty cycle no more than 80%. I keep SA in check until I know what my air temps are...

2bar map sensor:
0.00v-2.5v = 29.99 inHg - 0.00psi
2.51v-5.00v = 0.01psi - 14.5psi

3bar map sensor:
0.00v-1.67v = 29.99 inHg - 0.00psi
1.68v-3.33v = 0.01psi - 14.5psi
3.34v-5.00v = 14.6psi - 29.0psi

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Do i need to just get a different 2 or 3 bar map or are you saying i can just change those values in the bin? Whats the best bin in your opinion to start with for mod. boost 6-9 lbs?

project89

iTrader: (1)

u need to get a 3 bar map sensor, stock u only have a 1 bar it only reads vacum to -vac/psi.

lol since u finnially got the hang of tunning i guess the files i did are worthless now since u prolly got further then i did for ya

even if u dont think u will run over 14 psi still get the 3 bar sensor, boost is addictive and u wont stay below 14 psi for long

edit i so miss my v6 ive almost thought about yanking the 355 to install my 3.0 lol

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Yes, you would need to get the correct MAP sensor depending on how much boost you want to run, and the values are changed in the bin. No ECM can see boost, per se, it just bases everything on voltage readings. We simply tune our fueling and spark from there. You can browse some of the bins found on Code59.org (preferably the Syclone/Typhoon bins), and with a little math you can predetermine a base that will suit your setup and start from there. Remember that 15-psi is essentially doubling the amount of air your engine takes in at 0" of vacuum, so you can do a calculation based on that as well...

project89

iTrader: (1)

unfortunatly that dbl the air @ 15 psi calc dont work to well for the v6 cars.

9psi on my car when it was on the dyno showed almost a 200% gain in hp with the ignition issues , without would have been closer to 225%

with the turbo u will be using u wont see that much of a gain prolly more around the lines of 100-125% gain in power

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I didnt know ya finished up the files.. well i havent tuned WOT at all yet, I just added a little fuel to make me feel safer when its floored.

Streatlea. and project, what map should i get? are they like a universal part?? Id plan on just getting the 3 bar map then.

Boy i sure with that g-tech crapper was close to what id run right now N/A. A low low 16 would be impressive i think. But I need some BOOST in the future.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Im thinking ill be ok with at 100% Hp gain for a little bit.

project89

iTrader: (1)

only thing i did was lean out the idle and some of the low cruise areas, i wont touch wot until u have a wideband.

while i tuned my turbo setup witghout a wideband i wouldnt tune anyone elses motor without one, cause if i screw up it could cost u a motor, wereas when its my stuff i dont care

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

That is impossible, 15-psi is a 100% increase from 0" of vacuum. Each pound of boost equates to roughly a 6.78% increase in air, and 6.87% times 15 pounds of boost = 101%. There is absolutely no way you seen a 200% increase in air at only 9-psi...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

a map sensor something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/16040749-3BA...289#vi-content

You wouldnt happend to know someone who has a WB sensor do ya or where the best price one is?? Im tight on $$ as always. I wont attempt to put my turbo on till i can monitor it.. First time turboing ya know..

project89

iTrader: (1)

rob u were standing there when we dynoed the car 9/10 psi 270rwhp 370rwtq stock 3.1 dynos at tops 100rwhp

project89

iTrader: (1)

aem eugo on ebay 165$ shipped u will be hard pressed to beat that price

also u need to cross refrence the part number on that map sensor to be sure its a 3 bar sensor some ebay sellers try to pass off 1 bar sensors as 2 and 3 bars

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok i did book mark that sensor, Ive seen it and though that it was as cheep as i prob would get. Thanks! And ill make sure i cross reference there ##'s to make sure its not a 1 bar crapper

project89

iTrader: (1)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PLX-DEVICES-...item45feabfe78

lil cheaper but it dosent come with a gauge but it will hook to ur ecm/laptop for dataloging and u can add in a gauge later

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Dave, check your math lol. Ask yourself what your engine was making naturally aspirated, then look at the figures again. If your engine was making 150-RWHP naturally aspirated, and then it made 270-RWHP at 10-psi, then that is not a 200% increase in horsepower, it is an 80% increase in horsepower...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CIUBEPMCMAA#


are theys crappy??
Ok just to make sure i understand. If I get say that first whole kit you talked about, would i just wire it up by itself? Is there anything that i would hook to the ECU for data? Or is the data only going to my gauge and the other wires for the sensors heater.. the + and grd. If i did this then the original NB would stay where its at right and i woudnt mess with it at all.

project89

iTrader: (1)

the lc-1 is ok and it has output wires for the stock ecm and also datalogging
personally i would go with the plx or aem over the lc-1 but the lc-1 does work just fine

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok well thats another part for my wish list. I still need a blow off valve and wastgate too.....and larger injectors.. i think its gonna take me till summer to get all of this stuff

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Dont forget i made some new vids on youtube camaro ppl, before this thread gets deep...lol It hard driving it for 30 miles (datalogging)and not ever giving more then 20% throttle.....

I made some videos, just playing arround a bit. Enjoy and dont laugh too much!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONgxs...6u2DlcHB5XGFW2 1/4 mile...lol Theres like 3 more then this one that i added on youtube. Im mauicamaro on there.

34blazer

whats your O2 voltage at WOT? from like 3000rpm and up?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Its a steady 920-930 from 2500k and up @ 750 o2 temp.. I dont understand how to add a little fuel in my mask at all in pe mode. I know the NB suxs but if i know the sensor temp and the readings are constant i can get it somewhat close. 1000mv @ 750 temp is 13.6 AFR. so im below that. Probly nearer to 14.7 or so. Not what I want at WOT. I would want a maxed 990-1000 mv constant@ 750 o2 temp before i go floor the car like that again.

project89

iTrader: (1)

all nb sensors are different the onyl place there reading can be trusted is at 14.7afr.

one nb sensor could read 12.5 afr while at 850mv while another could be 13.5 @ 850mv. with widebands so cheap now its not worth risking the motor trying to tune with a nb

34blazer

yeah my NB is ~14.7 at 820mv lol. time for a new one

*915mv is ~13.2 for mine

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Who want to donate to the fund?

project89

iTrader: (1)

well we will never know cause it was never dynoed all motor.

so we will call it a 200% gain with ported heads and turbo,lol anyway we look at it i can build alot of power with these lil v6's

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Hey where should i put the o2 sensor when im making up this exhaust. I ordered the flanges finally.... Should i put the stock one up top on the down pipe or leave it where it is and put the WB o2 on the down pipe in the engine bay?

project89

iTrader: (1)

dont reuse the stock one, just put the wideband about 1.5 ft away from the turbine outlet

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ive got the stock 730 ecu though, didnt think that i could run a wide band into that ecu?