firebirdgangsta

Hey guys I Just bought a really nice bird for $700 with an amazing body and frame etc but it turns out that the 2.8 in her is bad. The thing barely runs (my best guess is that somebody just screwed with it in the past and killed the engine). I need this thing on the road soon because my crap plymouth is dying and I don't really have any other options. (I'd just rebuild the thing if I had the means) Oh and btw I'm gonna stick with a V6 in this car for better gas mileage. I also have an '83 as a long term project with a 350 that's being fixed up. So that one will be for fun, this one's gonna be for general use.

My plan is to go to the junkyard and pick up another working V6. I could just go and get another 2.8 and have a clean swap. But I had the idea of grabbing a 3800 (with an m90 supercharger if possible) out of a GTP or Buick. I'm wondering if anyone knows what it would involve to get a 3800 to bolt up to the 5 speed tranny that's already in the car etc. And yes I know there's that little intake being on the wrong side issue with a supercharger but that wouldn't be a problem for me.

But if this idea doesn't work then are there any other V6's that would work in the car as is?

Sorry, I know I have a lot of questions. Thanks.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

A 3.1 is basically a drop-in. A 3.4 is even better, requires minimal parts changes to install.

All detailed in the V6 forum.

Aaron_SK

iTrader: (1)

The Supercharged 3800 could theoretically be made to work, but it would require extensive firewall modification as the supercharger intake is on the "back" of the engine in a RWD car.

All the modern ("Series") 3800 engines use the same Metric bellhousing pattern as your transmission so it will "bolt-up" as you say. The issue is that the pilot shaft is not long enough. A fourth-gen T5 from a V6 car has the same bell but proper dimensions. You will need to swap the hydraulics as those cars ran a hydraulic throwout bearing.

You will also need to build custom mounts and custom exhaust. It can be done (I have one sitting in my shop ) but it is a lot of work to take on.

Back on planet Earth: Most of the 60* engines will drop in under your intake. You don't really need to spend a lot of time hunting a 3.1 or 3.4 IMHO, the power increase is not worth the extra price. Avoid any engine built before '87-'88 as they have bearing issues. I have had several 2.8 and 3.1 cars and they are fun and a good DD with a manual trans.

project89

iTrader: (1)

get a 3.4 and swap that in

firebirdgangsta

So I was thinking. What about a northstar? The bellhousing is virtually identical. It looks like it'd be a pretty easy swap.

Aaron_SK

iTrader: (1)

Bell is the same, still have the back-asswards intake issue to deal with.

firebirdgangsta

Actually the intake looks like it can be flipped around with very little or no modification. Besides I have access to a machine shop so I can make pretty much anything I need for modifications etc. I might need to make custom engine mounts if I go with a northstar. If it can't be flipped around then I could just make a 90 degree elbow for the throttle body. Although I'm not sure if there's even enough room for that. I know a similar setup worked for my friend who put an M90 super on his 305.

Project 3.4 Camaro

You need it on the road, you have a project car to build up, swap in something straightforward, ie. a 2.8, 3.1 or 3.4. Take it from someone thats been there, don't delve into major modifications if you can't risk having the car down a while in the event that there is a complication.

firebirdgangsta

Odds are I'll just go put another 2.8 in her or 3.1 or a 3.4 just to keep things simple. I'm only trying to weigh out the facts and determine what each option would involve. When it comes to engine price, it's really low. The junkyard I go to has a standard price of $100 (plus $30 core charge) for any engine. So the price is pretty much irrelevant in this case because all the engines are the same price, from a crappy 4 banger to a V10. The things I'm trying to weigh out are basically time, effort, efficiency, and potential power etc. When it comes to the effort I could put into the swap, I may have more of the means and patience to do so than the average person. E.g. Hypothetically if the northstar just needs custom motor mounts etc, I could easily construct them in the machine shop, and somewhat quickly and cheaply.

I think all that would need to be taken care of to install the northstar would be just to flip the intake around (it appears to be symmetrical), make the motor mounts, install the northstar ECU, and I may have to do something about the cross member because the rumor is that the oil pan's in the way (I'll have to take a closer look). And control cables and hoses etc should be straight forward from there. That should be about it in terms of just getting it to a stable running status (I can worry about performance later). I figure I'd only be putting in a little more effort than just putting in a different V6 for the same price and roughly the same efficiency.

But yeah probly most of you won't agree with me on this stuff but that's just how I think. But as I said if it proves too difficult I'll just do a quick clean 2.8 swap. (maybe even devise a way to bolt an M90 on it... Yeah I need to stop making big plans until after I get her running. lol)

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Right? Seems like if you want something to be a DD, on the road now, and NOT be a long term project you would stick with something simple rather than something complicated (3800) or never tried (Northstar)... I mean either one of those would be a great long term project to do it right, but that's not what you want...

firebirdgangsta

Yes, but it still doesn't hurt to run through everything and make a decision from there. But on a side note. This is sorta ironic... Can't say for sure that it proves the Firebird installation is possible but it's pretty freaking cool! lol

Northstar in a Fiero.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYCcj7R5Gfo

I think the only annoying thing that guy had to do was make a custom cross member and mount assembly etc.

Aaron_SK

iTrader: (1)

It is actually easier to swap engines like the SC 3800 and Northstar into a Fiero than it is into an F-body. A Fiero is essentially a FWD Cavilier going backwards, so FWD motors make sense. In a RWD F-body it's a whole other mess.

I'd love to see someone on here do something other than the vanilla SBC boogie everyone does. I would put a 2.8 back in this car, pull the SBC and drop something cool in the car that's already sitting. But that's me and all my s**t sits around.

firebirdgangsta

Hmm you got a point. I wish I could get my hands on one of the northstars that was made like in '01 or '02 for rwd vehicles... I think the newest I could find is like a '98.

Wait Aaron_SK, your thing says you got a 3800. How hard was that installation aside from using the 4th gen T5? (I figured out that it's possible to make an adapter to accommodate for the length difference. I actually made my friend an adapter so he can bolt up an old Mercedes I5 diesel to the 5 speed in his Ram 50. Really weird setup but it's mad cool!)

Aaron_SK

iTrader: (1)

I can't talk too big yet, car isn't running yet. Engine is in. Body-side mounts were fourthgen V6, engine side were custom. Exhaust is custom because of the turbo setup but it looked like the early "log"-style fourthgen manifolds would drop in the right place.

The issue with the thirdgen trans is the input shaft being too short. Adapter wont help, would need a longer input shaft or shorter bellhousing. Either way a fourthgen trans swap is easier.

kmcn47

whatever happened to this?

Richards91rs

I have a entire 3800 setup from a 4th gen manual trans and all. Was wanting to do a built ls7 in it. I'll have everything I need just wondering myself how bad this would be

Fallen2603

Much more difficult swaps are happening these days.

Richards91rs

Ok... So I have a entire 4th gen with a 3800 in it that I was going to swap a ls motor in and was curious about a few things. I also have a few nicely built v8s laying around and a few thousand more to throw in for a stand alone fuel management system for them also. But if I'm going to go through hell I'll transplant a nice stroker with fuel injection I just pulled the motor out of a dirt track car and the rear end will work also.