Drew

iTrader: (58)

Since I see a lot of people communicating myths about what needs to be changed to go from a 3.1 to a 5.7L, I feel the need to post a thread dealing with this swap. As I have sat down and thought about this completely from start to finish and I dont see how its THAT difficult.

Parts you'll definitely need:
350, assume roller cam 2 bolt main : take your pick of junkyard motors, figure $700-1000 for the complete pullout from a late 80's-early 90's chevy truck. Pullout meaning all accessories and brackets.
90* 700R4 : can come from any V8 thirdgen, vette, 4.3 S10 2wd, etc Multiple platforms to choose from. Assume $200-500 from local paper, thirdgen.org classifieds, junkyard, etc.
V8 thirdgen radiator, U pull it yard, I'd imagine less than $20.
V8 TPI setup : anywhere from $100-500 depending on resourcefullness.
TPI fuel pump : $60
Used TPI exhaust manifolds : $50

Parts you might want/need:
V8 springs FE2 $20
Wiring harness, I plan to modify the stock 3.1 harness, so figure $30 for misc connectors from the u pull it yard and shrink tubing, etc.

ECM is the same, a L98 chip would need to be installed, not a big problem finding stock chips. Motor mounts, a minor expenditure.. Fuel lines, dealer or stainless braided hose. The airbox is virtually the same, a V8 air bellows would be needed but again a very minor expense.

So for approximately $1500 the parts could be gathered. Of course you'd have to have tools and access to a hoist, which isn't really that hard to come by. And time and desire...
Some may say a 350 from a truck would be a clunker, but then again there are other options. Used L98 heads and cams show up in the classifieds all the time. GMPP sells a L98 shortblock for $1200, bolt on used L98 heads, use L03 accessories where applicable, etc.

Its not all that hard, as much as its just time consuming and takes some thought. Hell, make the right contacts and you can probably find someone who has several of the parts you need piled in their garage. In the past month I've already found a 90* 700R4, and all the serpentine belt accessories, and a roller 350 ready for some refreshing, all will cost me next to nothing. Also don't forget that you can sell the remaining 3.1 and parts to recover some of the expense of the swap.

Graeme'sFirebird

You wouldnt need a TPI fuel pump, the 2.8 (mpfi only) puts out enough pressure to feed a tpi motor

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1989 Firebird. Modded.
700r4-->t5 w/ram clutch
Cold air, 1.6 rockers, 21lb injectors, 3" y-pipe, random tech cat, 3" ipipe, flowmaster 80 series 3" in 3" out hand made stainless tips, Lakewood LCA's, Msd 6a, Msd coil, Wonder Bar, 180* stat,
Coming Soon: T/a hood, Painted,Spohn Panhard Bar, 4thgen Front Seats, Cam!, Msd 8.5 wires, Posi (ACCEL IS CRAP)
"I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT have run at all"
See my car Here!
In Memory of #3 Dale Earnhardt

3.1 firebird

I actually have a 700r4/350TPI at my granfathers, but I will not do the swap. I would rather just sell the car and buy a V8 car. In the end it would pobably be cheaper. But if I was to go with a V8 I would get the miniram system and sell the TPI crap.

Kevin S

Save some dough with a carb.A carb'd engine can run just as smooth as a FI.
I'm building a SBC for my RS.It will be awhile do to low funds.
I put close to $700 into my 2.8 in Feb of last year just to gain 3 cubic inches.And 6 or 7 tenths of a sec (in the 1/8,no 1/4 track close).I could have used that cash to SB my RS.
Don't get me wrong I love my RS no matter if it was powered by a 4-banger.I'm happy with the results of my rebuild.I mean hell,I can stay nose to nose with my friends 85 TA for the most part.
When I bought the RS,I got the v6 for insur reasons.Only to find out in my area there isn't that much of a price diff.But I got what I want and I like what I drive.
Nothing beats cubic inches but more cubic inches.

If you want to do a v8 swap you don't need a FI set up.Or anything fancy.
Start with a 350 cu block.
Give it a good .030 over bore.
You can get a complete rebuild kit from Northern Auto parts for $150 save for crank and rods and cast pistons will work just fine.
Throw in a cam that will let the engine breath well.Edlebrock and Holley,to name a few, sell matching cam,intake and carb kits some where close to 3 or 4 hundred(don't quote me).

To Bore,have the rods and pistons assembled and any other machine work will be close to $200.

So,for less then 8 or 9 hundred you would have yourself one mean engine in that engine bay.


Anyway,it's 5 am.I just got home from work and I'm babbling.I'm going to bed.G'night!

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The next time you think your perfect,try walking on water!



[This message has been edited by Kevin S (edited September 05, 2001).]

Drew

iTrader: (58)

While you don't have to use TPI, I can't imagine doing it any other way. Carb systems always end up looking cobled together on later thirdgens... Or rather any thirdgen. I'm not sure on the fuel pump, but I'd rather just replace it anyway, $60 is cheap insurance that you won't have to replace it again soon.

Brian K

I have seen a few V6 to V8 swaps and it was not as bad as people claim. Usualy the guys who did it took a month or two and it was not rushed. If you get to the point of a V8 swap the car really can't be your daily driver for a while and the job just can't be rushed because little gremilins will come up...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Aren't we to the point where just about everyone has more than one car? Everyone I know has at least one beater and one nice car...

1991tealRSt-topGuy

well, thats what kept me from doing the swap......i have no beater car.......and my friends uncle told me it would be really hard to do cuz you need to rip out the old wiring harness and put in a TPI one........he did say he would help if i chose to put a carbed one in though.........
i figured the engine would be a about $1000
the tranny $1000
radiator $200
miscellaneous parts $1000


so thats over $3000 i could invest into buying a nice Z28 or trans am

i'm glad people opened my eyes to the brutal truth


i'm going to do the 3.4 swap, however


a TPI 350 RS would have been really cool

but it just wasnt practical for me 2 do

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I hope for that $1000 that you're getting a brand new race prepped 700R4 or a new T56, thats highway robbery. And how do you add up over $1000 worth of misc parts? The wiring harness functions the exact same way on the 3.1 as the 5.7. Some sensors move around a little and two more injectors are added. Since its batch fire its an easy job to modify the 3.1L harness.

SSC

Actualy rebuilt 700r4's go for around 800$ So if you were to get a shift kit installed or a higher stall converter I could see 1000$ easy.

If you were to do a carb 350 swap for your 6 and you wanted to do all the work, your looking 2k easy. As far as the radiator the v6 one is fine its really not much smaller than the v8 radiator. I had a 2.8 radiator in my fbird when I bought the car and it worked great until a fualty thermostat stuck and blew it up. If you go to autozone or where ever they only sell the larger v8 radiators for replacements. the difference is 1/8 of an inch with. You will need v8 motor mounts with this swap and exhuast work.
SSC

[This message has been edited by SSC (edited September 05, 2001).]

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Its not 100% necessary to rebuild the tranny. Finding a good used 700R4 isn't THAT hard. Used V8 700r4's with warranty run $400 here. Maybe a little more for low mileage.

elevario

See, I would love to do this to my car! It's just really hard to save up all that money. Got bills bills bills! I want to swap in an LT-1 with a 6 speed. I'm sure this would be very costly but I was thinking about just buying one that somebody wrecked and just kind of swap everything over. But I know nothing about doing anything like this! All I know is basic maintenance on a car. The problem with this is who could help me do the swap? I don't know anyone who has any experience in this sort of thing. If I could do this, it would be my dream car. I really don't like the look of the fourth gen camaros too much, but if it comes down to it, I might just buy one.

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1992 RS 3.1L Bone Stock

"Yeah, it's a V6 SO WHAT!?"

86Chicken

As far as misc parts, they always show up when you get junkyard/salvage parts. When I did my tranny swap, the misc parts added up to be as much or more than the tranny was. That number depends on how lucky someone is, in my case have little luck, others may have more.

I think that 1K is reasonable if not conservative. I always plan for the worst.

Dale

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1986 FireBird
2.8L MPFI
1/2 CAI
Gutted Cat, No muffler
Was 700-R4 --> Now T5

Great cars aren't bought, they are built

TomP

This looks like this should be on the Motor Swap board. You might get more responses there, Drew.

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

TechSmurf

Here's a good fully illustrated page detailing the entire process (with a totalled IROC-Z donor car) =)

http://www.geocities.com/drittichier/IROCZ.html

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'86 Camaro SC, black /w silver racing stripes
2.8l MPFI/700r4 /w special 2nd gear delete option
In search of new v8 engine & transmission, now contemplating t5 swap to get me out of this mess.
Misc Mods: Cut air box, '83 Firebird spoiler.
Performance Parts: MSD coil, Accel 8mm wires, SplitFire plugs, Gabriel hijackers.
Audio Mods: Pioneer DEH-P3000, two 12" Optimus Pro Audio subs in hand-made enclosure each powered by a 260 watt Optimus amp. Working on shaving the box for weight.
My Homepage, with pics.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

well, no offense to anyone, i just dont like automatics.......it doesnt have a muscle car feel to me then......so actually yes.......it would have been a T56..........they go for about $2000 NEW......so it would be about a $1000 used i figured............all in all its just not practical for me to do a V8 swap...........i was talking to my professor today and he said that i am more than welcome to work on my own car for projects.............you should see this school we have like 9 car bays w/ lifts......a huge machine shop.......and engines galore!!!!!!!!!!!!
so it looks like i will be getting my 3.4 REAL soon!!!!!!!!

Camaro_hunter_d

ONE STATEMENT. GO TO THE ENGINE SWAP BOARD NOT HERE.

Jason E

I think its OK for Drew to post this here!! Hell, how many of us have been whining about doing a 350 swap?? Posting here is fine...I'm glad he did because personally, I never GO to the swap board!!

Anyways, what Drew says makes sense. I have a car that I love with a motor I don't like. So for me, swapping makes sense. I also agree with the fact that carbed '88-'92 cars do look cobbled together, not to mention that you won't pass emissions if you need to (like me )

My biggest problem is that I don't have the TIME or PATIENCE, but do have the funds. Anyone know a shop in New England I can go to and say "Here's 4 grand (or so), do it right and do it 350 TPI"?????????????

If anyone does, speak up!! This will save me from having to sell my beloved RS and find a decent IROC. I just can't see holding onto and investing a ton of money in a V6, no offense to anyone here...

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Jason E

'89 Camaro RS
-Medium Grey Metallic
-2.8, A4, T-tops, 94k miles
-Hypertech chip, Accel wires/coil/K&Ns
-Alpine 60x4 and Bostons

'97 Z28
-30th Anniversary package (white with orange stripes)
-LT1, M6, t-tops, 45k miles
-Eclipse CD and 10" Aluminum sub in JL Audio Stealth box, Boston RM speakers, Xtant 403a amp

Speed Kills...Wanna live forever? Drive a Ford.
Long Live #3...

Brian K

I know a shop in Orlando that will buy you a Billy Ghram Engine and tranny combo from a LT1 and swap it in... I think the engine and tranny are like 2700 and anohter 2K for labor to install and have it running right.. The place is Called Corvette Masters

TomP

$hit Jason, bring it to me, I'll do it for $3900!


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

KED85

You can buy a whole V-8 car for about $500 or less & spend the remaining $2500 doing the car right, to your own level, taste, etc.
Sell your V-6 car to fund the V-8 project!

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

Jason E

Tom,

When I meant 4,000, I meant this was including all the parts (rebuilt engine, trans). If the parts cost up to 2,500-3,000 to do it right, I am estimating a grand to 1500 for labor.

I AM serious about this swap. I want to keep this car. Ked brought up selling it and buying a V8 car cheap. I don't wanna rebuild a beat-on rat. I love my car for what it is...an immaculate, babied, documented from day one, part of my family!!! I have seen an IDENTICAL car to mine on eBay, with the only difference being a 305 TBI under the hood, that sold for less than I've had offers for on mine. But you know what? It will never be the SAME car as what is in my garage right now. What I want is THAT car with a small block, and I will always be happy.

Does it fiscally make sense? Absolutely not. But how many of us always make sense when it comes to what we enjoy???

If anyone knows someone (or is someone) who would be willing to do this swap for me (and do it right), I will pay top $$ and give them all the time they need, as well as help scour for parts.

Anyone interested? Maybe Tom wants a night job?

Jason E

btt...does ANYONE know of a decent shop in the northeast I can take the car to? This isn't BS...by the time I graduate (Spring '02) I plan to take the $$ I had saved for grad school and do something useful with it, like a 350 swap