87_Camaro

well I decided to finally go through with either drilling holes int he air filter boxes OR just hacking off hte bottom of the air filter boxes and let the air filter bottoms dangle in the breeze, I thought to myself "what will suck in more air & what will give me better acceleration" so i said to myself hell I'll hack the bottoms off. Now this was the first actual modification i have ever done to my car so I was pretty worried id mess up and end up with crap but it went without a hitch, i re-installed the air filter box holder into the car with the bottoms cut out "looks sweet", dusted my air filters and tossed those puppy's in, i had to give it a test run and see just how much of a difference it did. well all i can says is i can accelerate a whole lot better than i was able to before & i can feel the difference , i am very happy with the results all i gotta do now is throw in some K& N's and get even better response.

now thisis my question:

was it wise to just hack off the bottoms instead of drilling holes???

and my main question:

since I dont have a round carb and i got the dual snorkle intake, did hacking off the bottom of each AFB create a sort of cold air intkae??? or is that something completely different?

[This message has been edited by 87_Camaro (edited August 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by 87_Camaro (edited August 06, 2001).]

Brian K

I did that before I made a custom conical setup?

87_Camaro

so ya hcked off the bottom of your air filtr boxes also at some point in time??

what works better for you the custom conical setup or the modified air intake? i heard that its not all that greta for a conical setup becuas eit sucks in more hot air than cool or some crap?

Jiffy

Im just wondering, but I thought that the bottom of the actual stock filter was non exsistant, therefore the air can go directly up the open bottom and into the enginge without being filtered. Corrent me if I am wrong

------------------
Jeff
92 Camaro V6, mods: K&N, modified air box, JET chip 2,high performance muffler.
www.camarors.4t.com

AntiVTEC

I've got the bottom of my air boxes hacked off. I think that's better because it you look at it, the slots in the front bumper actually are open to the bottoms of the filters, so the filters can get fresh cool air in em. I also noticed alot more intake noise after hacked them and a bit more acceleration.

------------------
85 2.8L Sport Coupe 5-speed.
Mods: Hpertech chip and powerstat, MSD 6A-L, Crane fireball coil, Accel Cap and Rotor, Dynomax hi-flow cat and catback system with a dynomax magnum race bullet muffler on the i-pipe, K&N filterchargers, Gutted Air Boxes, 8mm Wires, Eibach Sportlines and Tokiko springs/shocks setup, Global west sub frames, Suspension techniqs front and rear sway bars, and good ole 88 IROC wheels with Kumo Ecstas on em!
"It's not the ricers, it's those damn V8's!"

Wins: 2000 V6 Accord, 69 302 Mustang, 2000 Auto VR6 Jetta, 89 Toyota MR2, 90 Civic Si, 76 350 Camaro.

87_Camaro

and that is the exact same reason why i decided ot hack mine off instead of drilling holes , i also noticed the sound increase but one thing i honestly notice more is the acceleration, i took if for 2 more "spirited" test drives and it accelerates very nice. now to continue to step 2 of the process and install the Ram Air hehehe



[This message has been edited by 87_Camaro (edited August 06, 2001).]

87_Camaro

well actually the dual snorkel intkae had 2 air filtrs wich layed over these boxes wich had about 5 inch long by 2 inch wide holes on the left and right side of each AFB, now you can imagin how small these were, by hacking off the bottom the entier filter hangs freely in the open and when driving causes in my opinion a sort of hybrid CAI because it sucks fresh air through the grill in the front and directly up into the intake

AntiVTEC

Well, the next step would actually take out that flexible rubber tube after the MAF and before the trottle body, and replace it with a smooth PVC pipe or something. You ever notice how much air noise there is when you mash it? Well, air noise is most like turbulence from that freakin tube. Even if you get a ram air setup goin, you might just be causing bigger tornadoes in the intake track. Hehe, I'll let you know the results. Payce.

------------------
85 2.8L Sport Coupe 5-speed.
Mods: Hpertech chip and powerstat, MSD 6A-L, Crane fireball coil, Accel Cap and Rotor, Dynomax hi-flow cat and catback system with a dynomax magnum race bullet muffler on the i-pipe, K&N filterchargers, Gutted Air Boxes, 8mm Wires, Eibach Sportlines and Tokiko springs/shocks setup, Global west sub frames, Suspension techniqs front and rear sway bars, and good ole 88 IROC wheels with Kumo Ecstas on em!
"It's not the ricers, it's those damn V8's!"

Wins: 2000 V6 Accord, 69 302 Mustang, 2000 Auto VR6 Jetta, 89 Toyota MR2, 90 Civic Si, 76 350 Camaro.

Brian K

http://www.geocities.com/overlift/Dcp02084.jpg

Brian K

[This message has been edited by Brian K (edited August 06, 2001).]

WaynesRS

I have the same ramair setup on mine that you have 87camaro ,For some reason I love the noise of the air sucking in lol

87_Camaro

i also like the way it sounds but if you switched the rubber with PVC would the top of the snorkles not budge at all?? i mean the rubber is ther so you ca bend it sidways and get into the filters etc., would this increase my response more? or just make the sounds duller, and have you done htis to yours? right now im experimenting with what other materials would do a good job for a ram air setup than A/C duct, i'll probably just go with that for now and make diagrams of better stuff then upgrade, i'll also think about the PVC thing

[This message has been edited by 87_Camaro (edited August 07, 2001).]

87_Camaro

well i like the way it sounds but if you switched the rubber with PVC would the top of the snorkles not budge at all?? i mean the rubber is ther so you can bend it sidways and get into the filters etc., would this increase my response more? or just make the sound duller, and have you done this to yours? right now im experimenting with what other materials would do a good job for a ram air setup than A/C duct, i'll probably just go with that for now and make diagrams of better stuff then upgrade, i'll also think about the PVC thing once you give me some answers

87_Camaro

nm

AntiVTEC

I'm gonna try it out and see what I get. I'm sure it'll make changing the filters a little more lengthy too since you cant bend it, but heck, if it works preformance wise it'll be well worth it. Our little V6's can use all the air they can get.

87_Camaro

you daaaamn right let me know with your results

WaynesRS

87_Camaro
Hey man ! I have not done the PVC pipe .I have been thinking about doing it to mine , I prabably will .It should help airflow a little b/c its straight on the inside , there is less turbulance with the incoming air ,it does not have all those bends in it to make it turbulant .As far as being able to remove the top so you can clean your filters or whatever , you just un-snap filter boxes then pull it toward you and it pulls the box out of the pipe .The sound of the air coming in I would think would get louder cus there is much less turbulance, but dont hold me to that , it may get quieter I dont know ,I cant wait to try out this mod myself ....I saw the pics of the car man ,fine car ! ...wayne

87_Camaro

well i think it would increase air flow a little, it's smoother on the inside like you said and im pretty sure it will be quieter because its thicker than the plastic & its metal so it wont vibrate,but it iwll be a paint o remove the filters none hte less. this is becoming pretty intersting project, i was planning on driving to home depot today so while im there ill check out the PVC

[This message has been edited by 87_Camaro (edited August 07, 2001).]

Xenodrgn

87_Camaro... to answer your 1st question... the only thing you'd have to worry about is water getting on your filters... but thats rarly a problem.

The only problem I see with the PVC pipe thing is that the intake isn't perfectly aligned with the snorkle outlet... at least it's not on mine... I plan on doing all these mods at once... after my ignition is fixed.

------------------
1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

87_Camaro

thanks for the answer to my first question Xeno, as for the PVC subject, that was another reason that i forgot to mention why it would be difficult to do, i honestly think it would get less turbulence using PVC but i like the plastic more at this time. we just haev to experiment

WaynesRS

He has a point , I dont know if mine is perfectly lined up either , better check into that before you do it , b/c if you do put it on there and its not perfectly lined up , you could loose performance b/c it could cause the pipe by the throttle body to bend and possibly buckle somewhere and you would loose air ...I dont know for sure if that would happen , but its just my theory ....Wayne

Jiffy

Is It possible to get to much air?

Cause I was thinking, If I had the money, could I get one of those ASCD Hoods and take a 90 PVC straight up into a 14 inch filter on the outside of the hood. Im guessing that would give you a hell of a lot of air, but would that be overkill. Plus the hood is damn good look'n



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Jeff
92 Camaro V6, mods: K&N, modified air box, JET chip 2,high performance muffler.
www.camarors.4t.com

87_Camaro

you know what that is a very good question, i want ot know htis also.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Too much air? I think the ignition module should take care of that with all the sensors that are hooked into it, maybe richen up mixture to compensate (typing out of my a$$) like on carbed motors, richen up secondaries to prevent lean condition and prevent burnt exhaust valves.

------------------
85 Firebird. $150.00
2.8 Auto.
Blown Head Gasket.
Mods Galore to Come....

Jason E

There is one question that has been on my mind for over a year now with regard to cutting the bottoms out...I have wanted to do this myself but there is one problem...

WON'T THE FILTERS GET WET IN THE RAIN????

------------------
Jason E

'89 Camaro RS
-Medium Grey Metallic
-2.8, A4, T-tops, 92k miles
-Hypertech chip, Accel wires/coil/K&Ns
-Alpine 60x4 and Bostons

'97 Z28
-30th Anniversary package (white with orange stripes)
-LT1, M6, t-tops, 44k miles
-Eclipse CD and 10" Aluminum sub in JL Audio Stealth box, Boston RM speakers, Xtant 403a amp

Speed Kills...Wanna live forever? Drive a Ford.
Long Live #3...

WideOpenVTwin

Yes, but it's not too much, just make sure you don't use a paper filter with that setup

87_Camaro

well after doing my homework as to what are the bad sides of hacking off the bottoms, getting them wet would be the only one BUT that isnt all that bad because they wouldn't get all that wet. well for me i have a bra on my car and there is a screen in front of my grill so that dulls the entrance of water bye a good deal, paper fuilters wouldn' work as well but since i take it everyone has K&N's we can forget about that problem i guess it's just a small little risk we have to take in order to upgrade.

El Guapo

Couple of things. I did this back when l had an 89 V6. The 2.8 MPFI. Mine was the fire chicken. So not really applicable to the Camaro setup.

However, about the fuel mixture. If its FI thats what your MAP or MAF is for, right? You will get more air for a given throttle position, BUT MAF or MAP doesnt really care about throttle position. It will report
"MAF to ECM we have XXXX amout of air coming your way."
"Roger MAF, we will have XXXX amount of fuel to meet it there."
"Thank you sir, its a pleasure doing business with you. MAF out."

Your computer will be a bit confused, at first, but it will lear that that is normal. (about the extra air, not the conversation.) So as far as the fuel goes, its normal.

The PVC wont make as much noise because its a better insulator that rubber. Its also going to be smoother. Which some debate as to where its a good thing or not on a FI car, since some say it might interfere with the MAF getting a good reading.

A oil-Gauze based filter (K&N) should be fine for the rain. Dont put a water hose full blast on it, but it should be ok for normal rain.

Just a couple of applicable thoughts.
Clayton

87_Camaro

thanks for the info guapo, very informative.

Xenodrgn

I looked more into this the last couple of days. It looks like you can bend the maf outlet enough to create a pretty straight line into the intake. PVC is cheap, and I can use all the air I can get on my POS slow *** 2.8, so I'll give it a shot sometime soon.

I can't wait to get KNN's and do these mods, I'm looking forward to possibly being able to chirp my tires.

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1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

87_Camaro

what does it mean to "chirp" your tires?? everyoen talks about chirping when shifting gears etc. does that mean when ya going slow and punch it and it goes eekk! a little? My Camaro is a 2.8ltr and when I start going I punch the gas and the tires go "ek ek ek" as I accelerate, is that chirping my tires? I honestly think my car accelerates pretty fast & it holds it's ground. i found out that its had a complete tune up already so i do not need to do that for while, anyways as for the PVC subject i wonder how many inches the PVC has to be i can probably go buy it tomorrow and tell you guys how it does.

[This message has been edited by 87_Camaro (edited August 10, 2001).]

elevario

Chirping the tires is when.....well when you stomp on the gas to race someone and you shift to second or third or whatever, and the tires chirp or burn out for like a tenth of a second. It's just the sound your tires make.

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1992 RS 3.1L Bone Stock

"Yeah, it's a V6 SO WHAT!?"

El Guapo

Leave it to me to bring up the OTHER side, but here goes.

When you chirp your tires, it does sound pretty cool, but at that instant you are not accelerating. Your tires are no longer able to stick to the road. Thats why they spin, thats why they chirp.

By chirping, and not accelerating, you run the risk of losing a race.

Once again, lm not denying the cool factor at all. But l am pointing out that it isnt something you intentionally want to do during a race.

Clayton

AntiVTEC

A well executed shift is usually goin to chirp anyway. All thats happening is that the rear tires a breakin loose for a moment as the car tries to catch up to the rear wheels. Kinda like a mini peel out..

El Guapo

Define perfect shift.

A perfect "Racing" shift, to me, is where l get every ounce of the power to the road. A chirp, by your own words are where you dont get all the power to the road. So a chirp is not a perfect "Racing Shift"

Now a perfect "Showoff for friends" shift is where you chirp for exactly .015 seconds.

There is a difference and it does matter.

Clayton

87CamaroLT

Don't remember the exact formula, or even where I read it, but surprisingly, maximum acceleration is acheived at 15% wheelspin. Physics are weird...

KED85

Want a REAL EDUCATION IN CHIRPPING TIRES!!!
Go rent "BULLET".
Play the car chase scene, REAL LOUD!
You'll understand "Chirpping tires", better.
Anyone else agree ?

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

Xenodrgn

I've done -more- looking into the whole hacking off air boxes thing... I came up with some good stuff for you all.

#1 get in front of your car and look through the grill... look towards the air boxes... you'll notice a piece of flat metal that somewhat restricts airflow from the upwards-facing grill into the air boxes... Thats gotta reduce airflow. To create killer ram air, just cut out the bottom the airbox, and extend them through the metal plate to the grille... Don't use up the enire grille though, you still want -some- air to pass back to cool off the radiator.

#2 you could create a little bit better ram air effect (than completely removed box, I'm not referring to #1) if you just cut off the bottom and front of the box... that way the sides and back would create a sort of mini-scoop for the air coming in the grille.

either way... doing something with that flat metal support would probably do some good for increased air-flow.

Any comments?

------------------
1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

87_Camaro

that is a very good observation about that metal sheet in the way, i knew it was there but tomorrow i am goign to take a closer look, another thign you guys can do to get more air throught he grill "and make the fog lights look tighter" is to get a different grill, what i mean by that is that we have a grill with horizontal stripes across it, some IROC's have a grill with 2 holes on each side and in the center it's covered and it says Camaro. i don't know if you guys know what im talking about but just adding that grill to the car will not only get more air in, but make the front bumper look hella better .

AntiVTEC

I'm not sure when the front bumper changed, but a Z28 grill with the bowtie-in-the middle-and-the-two-holes-for-foglights-on either-side doesnt fit on the car that have the "slotted nose". Besides, the filters get their air from the slots, not the grill.

Now as for the racing shift, a chirp is almost unavoidable unless you completly let off that gas in between shift, which then you aren't pushing the car to full potential. Hell, even auto's with shift kits chirp. Its all just a by-product of good shifting. Either way, it doesnt matter to me because my tires dont screech when spinning.

------------------
85 2.8L Sport Coupe 5-speed.
Mods: Hpertech chip and powerstat, MSD 6A-L, Crane fireball coil, Accel Cap and Rotor, Dynomax hi-flow cat and catback system with a dynomax magnum race bullet muffler on the i-pipe, K&N filterchargers, Gutted Air Boxes, 8mm Wires, Eibach Sportlines and Tokiko springs/shocks setup, Global west sub frames, Suspension techniqs front and rear sway bars, and good ole 88 IROC wheels with Kumo Ecstas on em!
"It's not the ricers, it's those damn V8's!"

Wins: 2000 V6 Accord, 69 302 Mustang, 2000 Auto VR6 Jetta, 89 Toyota MR2, 90 Civic Si, 76 350 Camaro, 2000 3.8 5-speed Camaro.

87_Camaro

well since my camaro has a bra covering the slots, it gets all the air from the grill, but i am thinking of modifying the bra to open up th slots.

as for the bow tie grill, my fried had an IROC and he took the bow tie grill off of it and put it on a 89 RS so i thought it would fit our SC also, guess not.... so where the hell do we put fog lights???? i really wanted to put on fog lights to my camaro but now finding out i can add the bow tie where would i put them?

AntiVTEC

I had fog lights behind the grill... took them off though and found my car ran better.

87_Camaro

so behind the grill eh, i have seen a camaro SC with fog lights sticking out in front of the grill and it didnt look all that great, does it really shine through well behind the grill??

TomP

Hm; maybe I should dump my P275/60r15 rear tires for some P215/65's again, eh? I never have a traction problem, unless it's wet out...

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

ChillPhatCat

The wheel spin doesn't halt acceleration, it heats up the tires which in turn grip the road better, so as you peel out and take off, the tires are actually just prepping themselves for better acceleration a little later in the run... with the right amount of spin you should be taking off at your maximum launch speed. Physics isn't entirely intuitive and yes, wheel spin is required for maximum acceleration. it is probably better to chirp the tires while shifting than not if you are racing.

My other point: PVC is a very pliable material and thus it should be perfect for intake tubes... with a heat gun (available at hardware and hobby stores) all you need to do is slowly heat up the pipe and you can bend, squish and twist the pipe to almost any shape you need. Once you have shaped the PVC to a specific shape, you hold it in position until it cools and perfecto! Its just like glass if you've ever worked with that... The smooth surface should be ideal.

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1984 Firebird - Daily driver, 305 LG4, T5 - Hurst short shifter, Edelbrock 600 CFM Performer Carb - Edelbrock Pro-Flow air filter, gutted cat, IROC 16x8 Wheels, Goodyear P215/60/R16, AIWA bargain basement (from Sears of course) CD player, Fuzzy dice, Eight-ball shift ****
Check out my ride here $1600!!

First Kill: 2001 Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon (1 person vs me with 2 passengers)