I guess its burning water? Why is that? There something easy I can replace?

 

My timing is off,my O2 sensor prolly needs to be replaced,and my car had been sitting for about 6 months before I got it... Is this a serious problem or some easy thing? It doesnt smoke at idle,just when your driving it.

 

guess you are right, do you spend coolant? how does your oil look like? (consists only out of oil?)! if it looks like chocolatemilk, I mean the coolant, than don't drive it anymore or you will kill your engine!!!!!!!!!
if oil is o.k. do the following:
drive your car about 30 mls to warm up the engine , also your exhaust system. If there is still white smoke check it by your hand if wet.
Than maybe you need new headgaskets.

------------------
www.marion-becker-nidda.de
91 Firebird 3.1
Modsynomax ultra flow stainless steel

 

white smoke from exhaust is gasoline, blue smoke is oil and black smoke is carbon. since your O2 sensor is shot the computer might be telling the car to run rich all the time....not sure but i do know the O2 sensor has something to do with detecting how much gasoline is still in the exhaust. it is NORMAL for a car to run rich when you crank up on a cool morning(see all the people at stop lights with white smoke coming out the tail pipes? uh huh.... ) is this the case? does the white smoke stop after the car warms up? or is it all the time?

------------------
1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

GONE MUSTANG HUNTING.......
BACK IN 10 SECONDS

 

White smoke is water(steam), Black smoke is too much gas(that is where the carbon comes from), blue smoke is oil.

------------------
FOR SALE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
86 Trans Am 355 TPI Rebuilt 700R4 with Corvette servo, modified valve body, and a B&M Torque Converter (2000 rpm stall w/ lock up), 87 350 block bored .30 with new crank. Reworked 305 heads with 3-angle valve job. Added in the rebuild was an SLP TPI cam, BBK 58mm Throttle Body,MSD 6A, Hypertech Power Coil,MSD Wires, 1.5 Crane roller tipped rocker arms, SLP Intake Runners and Port matching in upper intake including fully ported plenum, TPIS adjustable fuel pressure regulator @ 46psi, Hooker shorty style headers w/ Thermotech heat wrapping, Custom 3” exhaust with Flowmaster muffler and chrome quad tips, Hypertech Thermomaster Computer chip, K&N open element cone filter on modified MAF per TPIS specs, removal of A/C hardware and added a 1LE firewall cover installed. Also there has been a PST front suspension kit with Hotchkis strut tower brace added.
Stereo has 2 Clairion Pro Audio dash plates, 2 Sony 6X9s, 2 Kicker 12's in a custom Carpeted box with a custom amp rack Holding 3 MTX 280 Amps, and a MTX electronic Crossover all wired with EFX cable.
Asking $4200 with all extra Parts that are needed to fix most apearance flaws. ie Complete hatch and wing from a 91 GTA
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The Third Gen Will Never be Forgotten

 

My car only has 73k miles...but its had the snot beat out of it,could this just be my O2 sensor?

 

OK a lot of people have been posting stuff on this...heres the deal..
1. Start your car and let it idle or you can give it short bursts of revs to warm it up. Look at the amount of water coming out of the tail pipe..it will land under the tail pipes making a puddle)
2. If you rev it then check the size of the puddle after every couple times. a small patch(5-6 inches) is perfectly normal. Moisture will collect in the pipes after the car has been shut off after running for a while. (its called condensation, on the hot metal)
3. check you oil dipstick..if it is frothy(full of bubbles) then you have either a cracked head or a head gasket. The same goes for the coolant, If it is full of foam then it is low...If it has been filled lately then you have a leak(head gasket), If it has oily dots then you can count on either a head or head gasket is leaking.
4. the smoke thing is a general idea to start a search. Hers a general outline...
White smoke is water/coolant AND valve seals(depending on how bad they are.)
Grey smoke is oil, look at the valve seals...
Blue smoke is extremely rich mixture and really bad oil seals...
Black smoke is difficult one to pin point, It is normal to appear after a hard throttle gunning, again a extreme rich mixture may produce this but you have to be bunring so much fuel for that you can watch your tank level go down as the car idles.
It is caused by carbon deposits however...thats why a good hard run every once in a while is a good thing. It helps clear it out. Personally I run my car about every 2 weeks...I get it from 45 too govenor at 115 on a good country back road, I do not ease the power on I simply floor it, thats the best way.

 

Camaro_Hunter,

You were batting 1000 right up to your statment; Blue smoke is oil.

Black smoke is overly rich condition (too much fuel).
NOTE: You can be running way rich and not see black smoke provided your cat(s) are working properly.

RS'er,
How much white smoke are we talking about? Just enough to be seen by someone following you or heavy enough that's it's noticable looking out your mirrors? If it's just a wisp, it's probably just waper vapor which is a by-product of the combusion process in addition to condensation (normal, no problem). BUT If it billows out like a smoke stack then read on...
Sounds to me that the previous owner thrashed the car, burned the engine up, then parked it waiting for someone(you) to take it off their hands. A new O2 sensor won't help you if this is the case. I hate to say it but it sounds to me like it's time for a new engine. Have you done a compression and/or a cylinder leak down test in addition to checking the condition of the oil & coolant? Have you checked you plugs recently? What do they look like? Also, how does the car actually run? Smooth? Rough? Might want to start there before spending any more money. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong re: your engine but just in case... Good Luck.


[This message has been edited by offroader (edited March 31, 2001).]

 

Say it isnt so...god if my car is messed up then I am totally screwed.
OK Tell me if any or a combination of these might help:
Change the oil (its totally BLACK)
Change oil filter
Change fuel filter
Change O2 Sensor
Change EGR valve
Get a full tuneup and get my car timed right (its timing is way off right now btw)

Right now,you cant see any smoke at ALL unless the car is in gear and your moving. You cant see smoke even when you rev the engine,which actually sounds very healthy.
My exhaust pipes arent even securly fastened to my headers,both the nuts are missing so I have an exhaust and noise leake there (another possible cause?)

PLEASE Help me with this one...If my car is gone than I am screwed...I was supposed to take my car on a trip to arkansas in august...hopefully I can have it fixed by then.

If all else fails I'll have the headgaskets replaced,cant be THAT much...can it?

 

Offroader gave you the last bit of help you need- take care of the two tests he mentioned:

1. Compression test (can do yourself, gauge=$40): Checks compression in each cylinder; find a low cylinder and that's a problem one. It gives you an overall view of the situation. (I.E. 2 neighboring cylinders with only 20 psi compression as opposed to the other four at 160 psi= big problem!)

2. Leakdown test (needs "pro" stuff: air compressor, $80 gauge): Checks how well each cylinder holds pressure; as opposed to a compression, which makes sure your cylinders make pressure. This should be able to find a head gasket leak. Plus, since this tool pressurizes the cylinders with air, the mechanic can "listen" for a leak (hissing noise) with a stethescope to tell you what the problem is!

I agree w/everyone else, but the #2 test will give you a concrete "YES!" as to telling you the problem's a head gasket.

Right guys? I've never diagnosed a bad head gasket before...

------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Also,my timing is WAY off...I mean my car dieseled for about a minute the other day! Couldnt all this play a role in my car making smoke?

 

o.k. does the smoke smell like extreme gas?if yes, check O2 sensor - change it.
correct your timing. see TomP's new posting.
check your plugs, if bad - change.
But the best way is to do like TomP says with step 1 and 2 so you know what's up with your engine.

------------------
www.marion-becker-nidda.de
91 Firebird 3.1
Modsynomax ultra flow stainless steel

 

My dad said the easiest way to tell is if you take the radiator cap off while the engine is running and if the water is bubbling then ya your head gasket is gone...I have to do some schoolwork first but I'll go out in a little while and check...pray for me

 

Well,my radiator water wasnt bubbling or foaming. Isnt that an easy clue that my head gaskets arent bad?

Also,I put a bottle of that injector cleaner in my fuel tank last week,could that be causing some smoke?

I dont know if this has any effect on it,but headers arent securely bolted on to my exhaust pipe,and my muffler has a nice 6 inch hole rusted into it. I've covered it mostly with muffler tape but the tape has also broken and I'm just gonna break down and get a new muffler if it turns out my camaros insides arent mortally wounded...

The smoke is definatly white with only the slightest hint of blue,the blue just kinda looks like normal emissions,so I'm not very worried about it...
Could my timing being way off be the culprit here? Maybe I should just put the car in the shop and tell them to do a total tuneup and fix my timing. Maybe a sensor on top of all this is to blame. I am kinda leaning away from a blown headgasket here. I'm going to do an oilchange and put a quart of marvels mystery fluid in it and just see whats up.

 

It's hard to tell the difference between white and blue smoke. What you need to look at first is:

1. At night, do you see a "cloud" around the rear of the car while it's just sitting? Oil smoke will appear as a blue haze at night with light coming through it.

2. If it is a head gasket it can blow between 2 cylinders. That would leave the coolant passages intact and not leaking.

3. How much smoke is there? Some is normal, alot is normal on cold days.

4. Water is a byproduct of combustion. ALL cars will have some steam untill they warm up.

5. Are you losing water somewhere? Check you water level every morning before you start the car. If the level goes down a little everyday but you aren't seeing a leak it could be leaking into the combustion chambers.

6. When you change the oil do it on a cold engine. Water is heavier than oil. When you pull the plug IF water is in the oil they won't be mixed and the water will come out first. It will be real obvious.

7. When an 02 sensor goes out the computer will run at a constantly rich condition to keep from hurting the engine. When you rev the engine quickly do you see a dark cloud from the excess fuel? It's actually carbon. Not to mention your fuel milage will tell you the the 02 sensor is bad.

8. Am I rambling here?

9. The seals in the heads could have shrank during storage and you will need to drive the car for awhile to get the seals to swell back to normal.

Before you get worried that your car is dying give it a tune up and check all of these things. Also, drive the car. It sat for how long? Did you have this problem before you stored the car? Head gaskets don't go because you didn't drive it. The fuel could have gone bad in the tank during the winter. You could have filled up with some bad fuel. There are other explainations than what you are hearing.

 

I have had blue smoke and it had been a hollowed fuel filter thats why I said that... but other than that I am not going to post anything else on this topic/thread...He has gotten all the culprits that can be causing this and he does not seem to be doing any throuble shooting himself...
He keeps saying that the smoke is this color/that color and it does it this time and it seems to be inconsistant. I am not meaning to sound like an *** but after the first 3 "helpful" replies there should have been nothing else really to say on this.
Smoke is caused by something loose/not sealing properly period. It is up to this guy to find out what that "thing" is. Granted a smokes' color can help generalize the area to search and he has that info now...so he has to go out and get dirty now...

 

if white smoke is water burning then why am i not smoking up the whole city? i purposely put water in the exhaust near the cat(to help it rust out quicker) and i dont see any white smoke from that...i repeat that white smoke is gasoline, blue smoke is oil and black smoke is carbon......you want to tell me different you can get a certified mechanic to tell me otherwise thats my story and im sticking to it....

------------------
1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

GONE MUSTANG HUNTING.......
BACK IN 10 SECONDS

 

That's a flame-able comment.

Beyond that, there is a difference between smoke and steam. Both can be white. The amount of steam you get from your setup will depend on how much water your putting into your exhaust and the temp of your exhaust.

I work in the automotive industry and see at least one blown head gasket every week. You beleive what you want. No one person here knows everything. Some of us do, however, know alot. I am here to learn and be helpful when I can. Buddman that was argumentitive(sp?) and rude. I for one took it personally and won't be so quick to help with any of your future posts (I don't expect any since you know it all, right?).

 

Rser, I'm sorry but if I were in your position the VERY FIRST thing i would do is correct your timing. I mean if it's way off, correct it and see what problems you have after that. It's kinda like me tellin askin you why the water's boiling over, when i KNOW that the burner's still on. So try to correct your timing first, then work from there. You can't climb a ladder without starting from the bottom now can ya?

 

buddman91rs,
So where does the carbon come from?

You put oil in the crankcase, water/coolant in the radiator and gas in the gas tank. The oil is used to lubricate and cool the engine internals. Water/coolant is also used to stabilize engine temp. And we all know what gasoline is used for. I don't remember seeing a carbon reservoir anywhere; do you???

Let me ask you a question. Ever been around an open fire, say a campfire or a fireplace? You start off by placing wood or some other combustible material in it, right? You then ignite it using a match or some other igniter, right? Have you ever noticed what color the smoke is? When the fire finally burns itself out, what's left??? THAT'S RIGHT!!!! CARBON! Now think about what happens when you pour water on an open fire, what color is the smoke??? It's white!

Same thing is happening inside you car's engine. Fuel goes in, gets compressed, then ignited and finally expelled. Normally the gasses that are expelled are colorless (unless it's cold outside then you'll see thin white smoke which is water vapor(otherwise known as steam) provided the air/fuel mixture is close to the magic ratio of 14:1. But if there is too much fuel for the amount of air, the exhaust gasses appear to be black. Ever see a spark plug out of an engine that's running rich, what color is it? Depending on the severity, it will have a sooty (carbon) black appearance to it. Still with me? Now let's suppose too much oil is being introduced into the combustion process. The result will be a blue tinted exhaust due to the chemical make-up of oil. Add water/coolant to the combustion process and the exhaust will turn....????? (Hint: the answer is in the above paragraph, remember a wood fire.) RIGHT AGAIN!!! It's White.

Now let's talk in basic terms about the emissions components everyone want to rip off their vehicles. The PCV believe it or not helps with cylinder sealing (can you say free horsepower??) by allowing manifold vacuum to pull the rings tighter to the cylinder wall. It also draws any unburnt crankcase emission into the combustion process. The EGR is used to cool combustion chamber temps by reintroducing exhaust gasses back into the combustion process. Catalytic Converters are essentially an incinerator that burns anything that doesn't get burned in the cylinder. Air pumps and air injection systems aid in the cats in doing there job. If too much gas, water/coolant and/or oil are burnt or the emission systems are not functioning properly, it will change the color of the exhaust.

My apologies to the group for the long post but hopefully this corrects a few misunderstandings.


[This message has been edited by offroader (edited April 01, 2001).]

 

Okay people calm down here I dont need this getting locked...

I'm gonna put the car in the shop and have its timing fixed,and some other misc stuff too.

 

Have them run the tests we told you about (compression & leakdown). That will tell you about a head gasket. Stuff like watching for bubbling coolant, or milky-colored oil, aren't concrete tests.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!