2.8/2.8 Swap Update, work as of 3/26/2001 ... It's IN! (Long, grab a beer & cig ...)
03-28-2001, 01:13 PM
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Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
2.8/2.8 Swap Update, work as of 3/26/2001 ... It's IN! (Long, grab a beer & cig ...)
Well, we worked on his '89 Camaro on Sunday, and Monday afternoon. The bulk of the interesting work happened on Sunday...
First, we removed the hood again, and raised the car back up onto jackstands. We removed the starter, to get at the lower exhaust-manifold-to-y-pipe stud. (Remember, the nut was stripped?) My buddy used an electric grinder to cut the stud in half. So much for the stripped nut! He gave the manifold to his dad, who drilled the remainder of the studs out, and tapped the holes for us. We removed the grounds at the back of the heads. We disconnected the fan switch (rear of right head), and oil pressure sensor (by oil filter). We unclipped the tranny's cooler lines from the clip on the engine's oil pan - thanks, 87CamaroLT! Next, we removed the thru-bolts for the motor mounts- the bolt had a 17mm head, the nut was an 18mm head. Then, we dropped the car down to the ground. We slid the hydraulic jack underneath the trans pan, with a wooden board between the two. Then, since we had broken the trans-to-engine bolts free, we just reached down and removed them with our hands.
We rolled the engine hoist over. We tried to slip the chain's hooks over the lifting eyes of the engine- but the hooks were too narrow. Out came the grinder! We ground just enough off the lifting eyes to slip the hooks through. We hooked the chain to the hoist, then I gave the jack underneath trans a pump or two upwards. My friend then worked the hoist and lifted the engine up while I checked for everything.
Just like you said, 87RS402, as soon as the engine got high enough, it popped the torque convertor off the tranny's input shaft, and the whole thing swung forward a few inches. I grabbed the chain to keep it from smacking the radiator hoist. I got a picture!
We rolled the hoist backwards, and wheeled the "new" (okay, the "running") engine near the old one. (I got a pic of this, too.) Next, we started taking off what we needed from the old engine. That included the four coolant sensors (fan switch, cold-start-injector switch, coolant temp sensor, gauge's coolant sensor), the oil pressure sensor, the exhaust manifolds, the cold-start injector, the crank pulley, the water pump pulley, all the studs for the accessory brackets, and the... torque convertor!
Since the old engine was melted, it doesn't spin. We could get at two torque convertor bolts, but not the third! We tried a bunch of wrenches & angles, and my friend even tried grinding the flywheel away; but we couldn't get a wrench in there. Finally, his neighbor wandered over, and asked if his sawzall would work. He brought it over, and cut the flywheel away in the upper left corner. That let us get a wrench in there for the TC. (It also bent the crap out of the blade!)
Next, the sensors went onto the good engine. We primed the oil pump by putting the pickup in a container of motor oil, putting a pan underneath the oil filter mount, and spinning the pump with a drill. (I wanted to make sure the pump would pick up oil.) It did, so we used RTV to put the oil pan onto the engine. We used the whole tube, so I went off with another friend to get some blue RTV and vaccum lines. My friend swapped the lifting eye brackets from the old engine onto the new.
I got back, and my friend had the good engine on the hoist, ready to go. But, wait! He didn't remove the plug for the fan switch. (How is it possible that this '86 Camaro 2.8 had a plug in there for the fan switch, yet his '89 Camaro 2.8, and my '86 Firebird 2.8, have the sensor in there??) No big deal...
The plug had a square hole in it that was too small for a 3/8" ratchet handle, but too big for a 1/4" adapter. The idea is to make a plug-removal-tool by grinding a bolt down so the end resembles a square. You put the ground-down bolt into the plug, twist the screw with a breaker bar & socket, and the plug unscrews. Yeah, right. The plug was really in there, and the screw popped out- and ruined the damn plug! We tried again with another screw- a shorter one- and the hole got even worse. We lowered the engine to the ground (lying it on a piece of cardboard), removed the rear lifting eye, and tried a pipe wrench. Nope, no good- there wasn't enough to grab. We didn't have an easy-out to try, and there was the chance of metal getting into the block of we drilled the plug. (Does that grease-on-the-drill-bit trick work for catching metal filings?) So, we tried using a hammer & punch to walk the plug out- nope! Finally, my friend tried using a chisel to carve a slot across the plug for a large screwdriver. No good, the screwdriver just messed up the slot completely. What next...? Ignore the sensor? Pull his gauge sensor out of the front of the driver's side had, put the fan switch in that spot, and let him run without a gauge? Drill & tap the plug out anyway? Drill & tap a new spot for the fan switch-but where?
I finally pulled out my "Last Resort" idea.. something I never tried. I suggested running to my house to get my welder, and MIG-welding a bolt onto the pipe plug. Then, we'd use the breaker bar & socket to unscrew the pipe. We figured we might as well, since the plug was completely ruined anway. I drove home & picked up the welder...
How's that beer? Grab another one; it's a long message... but we did do a lot!
I hooked it up, and gave it a shot. I haven't welded since July 2000, so it wasn't a very good weld. The socket & breaker bar just twisted the bolt out of the plug. I said I'd try once more, then we'd switch the fan switch into the gauge sensor's hole. My second try was a success!! I laid down a good bead over 1/2 the surface, and a crappy one around the other 1/2. (Hey, I'm outta practice. ) My friend tried the breaker bar on it when the weld cooled- the bar started to turn, we both cursed- we thought the weld wasn't strong again. Then my friend yells "Ya got it!" 
It worked! I kept the weld job; I'll take a picture of it- I'm so proud of it! 
I put the fan switch in, we put the lifting eye back on, we raised the engine on the hoist, put the torque convertor on the trans input shaft (almost forgot it!!), and put the engine back in. What everyone else told me was right; it took a lot of shaking and manuvering and etc. We had to keep the alignment good between the trans & engine, keep all the wires out of the way, and try to line up the motor mounts. We got one motor mount thru-bolt in on the driver's side; then we worked to line the engine up for the other mount. When it was finally in and aligned, we stopped for the night.
Monday: We removed the hood and raised the car again. I torqued down the trans-to-engine bolts (30 lb/ft) while my friend put the valve covers on. The cold-start-injector, fuel rail, lower & upper plenum, new thermostat, and water neck were put in. We put the starter back in, and put the balancer & crank pulley on. We torqued down the motor mount thru-bolts. We put red Loctite on the torque-convertor-to-flexplate bolts, put 'em in, and torqued them to spec. We put the flexplate inspection cover back on.
Then, we lowered the car down to the ground- I think we're finished from "down under". Next, the rear power steering pump's bracket was found and put on, followed by the p/s pump. The air conditioning system (compressor, condensor, accumulator, evaporator) & compressor brackets were put back in. The hood went on, and that's as far as we got.
We'll finish this next Sunday. Off the top of my head, we have the following left: Hook up all sensors, get the wiring harness attached to the car again, put the radiator & lower hose in, attach the grounds to the back of the head, fill the engine with oil, attach a mechanical oil pressure gauge, prime the oil pump, drop the distributor in, hook up all the vacuum lines, put the pass side exhaust manifold on, put the EGR/ignition coil/bracket back on, put the AIR-pump-delete pulley on, put the alternator brackets/alternator/tensioner back on, fix the previous owner's "butcher job" on the starter motor & positive junction block wires, put the battery back in... and I'm sure a dozen more.
Well, that's it! Hopefully it's not too much reading for you guys, but you did want the details!
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
First, we removed the hood again, and raised the car back up onto jackstands. We removed the starter, to get at the lower exhaust-manifold-to-y-pipe stud. (Remember, the nut was stripped?) My buddy used an electric grinder to cut the stud in half. So much for the stripped nut! He gave the manifold to his dad, who drilled the remainder of the studs out, and tapped the holes for us. We removed the grounds at the back of the heads. We disconnected the fan switch (rear of right head), and oil pressure sensor (by oil filter). We unclipped the tranny's cooler lines from the clip on the engine's oil pan - thanks, 87CamaroLT! Next, we removed the thru-bolts for the motor mounts- the bolt had a 17mm head, the nut was an 18mm head. Then, we dropped the car down to the ground. We slid the hydraulic jack underneath the trans pan, with a wooden board between the two. Then, since we had broken the trans-to-engine bolts free, we just reached down and removed them with our hands.
We rolled the engine hoist over. We tried to slip the chain's hooks over the lifting eyes of the engine- but the hooks were too narrow. Out came the grinder! We ground just enough off the lifting eyes to slip the hooks through. We hooked the chain to the hoist, then I gave the jack underneath trans a pump or two upwards. My friend then worked the hoist and lifted the engine up while I checked for everything.
Just like you said, 87RS402, as soon as the engine got high enough, it popped the torque convertor off the tranny's input shaft, and the whole thing swung forward a few inches. I grabbed the chain to keep it from smacking the radiator hoist. I got a picture!
We rolled the hoist backwards, and wheeled the "new" (okay, the "running") engine near the old one. (I got a pic of this, too.) Next, we started taking off what we needed from the old engine. That included the four coolant sensors (fan switch, cold-start-injector switch, coolant temp sensor, gauge's coolant sensor), the oil pressure sensor, the exhaust manifolds, the cold-start injector, the crank pulley, the water pump pulley, all the studs for the accessory brackets, and the... torque convertor!
Since the old engine was melted, it doesn't spin. We could get at two torque convertor bolts, but not the third! We tried a bunch of wrenches & angles, and my friend even tried grinding the flywheel away; but we couldn't get a wrench in there. Finally, his neighbor wandered over, and asked if his sawzall would work. He brought it over, and cut the flywheel away in the upper left corner. That let us get a wrench in there for the TC. (It also bent the crap out of the blade!)
Next, the sensors went onto the good engine. We primed the oil pump by putting the pickup in a container of motor oil, putting a pan underneath the oil filter mount, and spinning the pump with a drill. (I wanted to make sure the pump would pick up oil.) It did, so we used RTV to put the oil pan onto the engine. We used the whole tube, so I went off with another friend to get some blue RTV and vaccum lines. My friend swapped the lifting eye brackets from the old engine onto the new.
I got back, and my friend had the good engine on the hoist, ready to go. But, wait! He didn't remove the plug for the fan switch. (How is it possible that this '86 Camaro 2.8 had a plug in there for the fan switch, yet his '89 Camaro 2.8, and my '86 Firebird 2.8, have the sensor in there??) No big deal...
The plug had a square hole in it that was too small for a 3/8" ratchet handle, but too big for a 1/4" adapter. The idea is to make a plug-removal-tool by grinding a bolt down so the end resembles a square. You put the ground-down bolt into the plug, twist the screw with a breaker bar & socket, and the plug unscrews. Yeah, right. The plug was really in there, and the screw popped out- and ruined the damn plug! We tried again with another screw- a shorter one- and the hole got even worse. We lowered the engine to the ground (lying it on a piece of cardboard), removed the rear lifting eye, and tried a pipe wrench. Nope, no good- there wasn't enough to grab. We didn't have an easy-out to try, and there was the chance of metal getting into the block of we drilled the plug. (Does that grease-on-the-drill-bit trick work for catching metal filings?) So, we tried using a hammer & punch to walk the plug out- nope! Finally, my friend tried using a chisel to carve a slot across the plug for a large screwdriver. No good, the screwdriver just messed up the slot completely. What next...? Ignore the sensor? Pull his gauge sensor out of the front of the driver's side had, put the fan switch in that spot, and let him run without a gauge? Drill & tap the plug out anyway? Drill & tap a new spot for the fan switch-but where?
I finally pulled out my "Last Resort" idea.. something I never tried. I suggested running to my house to get my welder, and MIG-welding a bolt onto the pipe plug. Then, we'd use the breaker bar & socket to unscrew the pipe. We figured we might as well, since the plug was completely ruined anway. I drove home & picked up the welder...
How's that beer? Grab another one; it's a long message... but we did do a lot!
I hooked it up, and gave it a shot. I haven't welded since July 2000, so it wasn't a very good weld. The socket & breaker bar just twisted the bolt out of the plug. I said I'd try once more, then we'd switch the fan switch into the gauge sensor's hole. My second try was a success!! I laid down a good bead over 1/2 the surface, and a crappy one around the other 1/2. (Hey, I'm outta practice.
) My friend tried the breaker bar on it when the weld cooled- the bar started to turn, we both cursed- we thought the weld wasn't strong again. Then my friend yells "Ya got it!" It worked! I kept the weld job; I'll take a picture of it- I'm so proud of it! I put the fan switch in, we put the lifting eye back on, we raised the engine on the hoist, put the torque convertor on the trans input shaft (almost forgot it!!), and put the engine back in. What everyone else told me was right; it took a lot of shaking and manuvering and etc. We had to keep the alignment good between the trans & engine, keep all the wires out of the way, and try to line up the motor mounts. We got one motor mount thru-bolt in on the driver's side; then we worked to line the engine up for the other mount. When it was finally in and aligned, we stopped for the night.
Monday: We removed the hood and raised the car again. I torqued down the trans-to-engine bolts (30 lb/ft) while my friend put the valve covers on. The cold-start-injector, fuel rail, lower & upper plenum, new thermostat, and water neck were put in. We put the starter back in, and put the balancer & crank pulley on. We torqued down the motor mount thru-bolts. We put red Loctite on the torque-convertor-to-flexplate bolts, put 'em in, and torqued them to spec. We put the flexplate inspection cover back on.
Then, we lowered the car down to the ground- I think we're finished from "down under". Next, the rear power steering pump's bracket was found
and put on, followed by the p/s pump. The air conditioning system (compressor, condensor, accumulator, evaporator) & compressor brackets were put back in. The hood went on, and that's as far as we got.We'll finish this next Sunday. Off the top of my head, we have the following left: Hook up all sensors, get the wiring harness attached to the car again, put the radiator & lower hose in, attach the grounds to the back of the head, fill the engine with oil, attach a mechanical oil pressure gauge, prime the oil pump, drop the distributor in, hook up all the vacuum lines, put the pass side exhaust manifold on, put the EGR/ignition coil/bracket back on, put the AIR-pump-delete pulley on, put the alternator brackets/alternator/tensioner back on, fix the previous owner's "butcher job" on the starter motor & positive junction block wires, put the battery back in... and I'm sure a dozen more.
Well, that's it! Hopefully it's not too much reading for you guys, but you did want the details!
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
03-28-2001, 04:45 PM
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Tom, Great details. It was like reliving my swap job.
Excpet for a few details, it was almost word for action word.
How I did that bolt, was with a friend.
First I went to the hardware store and got a small piece of 5/16" bar stock for $1.50 Put an adjustable wrench in it & bent the steel rod. Out came the blow torch, heated the block, out came that block bolt.
One other tip, slip the convertor onto the tranny, next time, then attach to flex plate.
Works easier, I found.
Besides that, got any left over oil gauge sensors? And water gauge sensors?
The soda was good.
The story was better!
Effort, OUTSTANDING!!
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Excpet for a few details, it was almost word for action word.
How I did that bolt, was with a friend.
First I went to the hardware store and got a small piece of 5/16" bar stock for $1.50 Put an adjustable wrench in it & bent the steel rod. Out came the blow torch, heated the block, out came that block bolt.
One other tip, slip the convertor onto the tranny, next time, then attach to flex plate.
Works easier, I found.
Besides that, got any left over oil gauge sensors? And water gauge sensors?
The soda was good.
The story was better!
Effort, OUTSTANDING!!
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
03-29-2001, 08:48 AM
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Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
Thanks for the support guys! We have one oil pressure sensor left over. The 2.8 engine my friend got was missing the rest. And there was that plug in the back for the fan switch... I'm still curious as to how it got there! I don't think any other rear wheel drive 2.8's got the MPFI system except for f-bodies. Oh well, whichever. I haven't taken any Polaroid's of the scene; I got the camera as a gift, and never tried it out, and don't have the time to play with it. So as soon as I get those developed, I'll put 'em up.
And maybe I'll try to include a "shortened" version of my updates- I'm sure 80% of people won't want to read my continuous drivel!
Yesterday, I wrote out what I think is a full checklist of what we have to finish. I also wrote up a junkyard list; I'm going to try to get to my yard Saturday. Besides one or two wires that are mangled, we need a lot of bolts & nuts for the accessories. Damned if I know where they went! It looks like this Sunday we'll be able to finish the car... everything else we have left to do is stuff I've done before.
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
And maybe I'll try to include a "shortened" version of my updates- I'm sure 80% of people won't want to read my continuous drivel!
Yesterday, I wrote out what I think is a full checklist of what we have to finish. I also wrote up a junkyard list; I'm going to try to get to my yard Saturday. Besides one or two wires that are mangled, we need a lot of bolts & nuts for the accessories. Damned if I know where they went! It looks like this Sunday we'll be able to finish the car... everything else we have left to do is stuff I've done before.
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
03-30-2001, 06:31 PM
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Howdy all, long time no post. My computer crapped out.... 
so I've got to use my friend's and the ones at school. Congratulations Tom! Glad to hear your swap is going so great. As for my 2.8->3.4 swap, IT'S IN!! Finally! Still needs to be bolted to the tranny, and the accesories need to be put back on the front of the motor, then a few wiring connections, finish my vaccum tubes, and put the plenum on, and turn the key! Maybe by Sunday.... I really can't wait! I've got girls lining up for a ride... (In the car, perverts! ) I've got pics, but forgot to take one of the car without the engine in. Anyway, it'll probably be a while before I can post regularly again, so, everyone, keep them cars shiny!
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
so I've got to use my friend's and the ones at school. Congratulations Tom! Glad to hear your swap is going so great. As for my 2.8->3.4 swap, IT'S IN!! Finally! Still needs to be bolted to the tranny, and the accesories need to be put back on the front of the motor, then a few wiring connections, finish my vaccum tubes, and put the plenum on, and turn the key! Maybe by Sunday.... I really can't wait! I've got girls lining up for a ride... (In the car, perverts! ) I've got pics, but forgot to take one of the car without the engine in. Anyway, it'll probably be a while before I can post regularly again, so, everyone, keep them cars shiny!------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
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