2.8/2.8 Swap Update, work as of 3/11/2001 ...
03-13-2001, 11:51 AM
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Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
2.8/2.8 Swap Update, work as of 3/11/2001 ...
Wow, what a weekend. Saturday, I helped a friend replace 2.5 I-4 FWD a-body's starter motor... not too hard. In case any of you have a car like this, here's a tip- you don't have to tilt the engine back to remove the plastic dust cover (as stated in the GM service book). Remove the dust cover's bolts, and the cover will move out of the way enough to pull/reinstall the starter.
Sunday, we worked on the car. As for the 2.8 on the engine stand, we: Put the timing chain on, set the valve lash, put the timing chain front cover on, and put the water pump on. What's left? Put on the oil pan, prime the oil pump, and put the balancer on. We have to put the cold-start-injector, coolant & oil sensors, thermostat, & water neck on after pulling them from the blown '89's 2.8.
As for the Camaro itself, well, we started taking it apart. The intake ducting, TB, upper plenum, fuel rail, lower plenum, alternator, belt, tensioner, idler pulley (where an AIR pump would be), distributor, alternator bracket, EGR solenoid/coil bracket, fan, and radiator were removed. The air conditioning (compressor/condensor/accumulator/evaporator) was removed by lifting the system out as one complete unit. (For those curious, the '89 has Torx bolts for the water pump & timing chain cover.)
We had to cut the positive battery cable where it went to the positive junction block (on the passenger side of the radiator). It went between the a/c lines. While we were pulling it all apart, I noticed someone had "rigged" the wires at the junction block- they split one wire, and spliced it into another. When we had the block out, and were trying to remove the positive battery cable's ring terminal from it, I found out why- the nut (of the junction block) had rusted onto the screw. The terminal was just spinning in the junction block. To make a long story short- we need to get a junction block out of a junkyard.
All the vacuum lines are SNAPPED! My friend was brutal on his car- he didn't baby the lines at all. All I heard was "snap! oops! snap! damn! snap! $@^%!" I looked up and saw a perfectly fine FPR-to-TB-to-EGR line go flying in pieces. They're all toast- even the plastic PVC lines. What a shame! He even snapped the EGR solenoid trying to remove its vacuum lines. I'm so glad it's his car and not mine!
He also broke the diverter valve on the heater hoses, and cracked the heater/evaporator box's top cover (when we removed the a/c system). We saved the vacuum line pieces; I'm going to see what (if any) I can rebuild with hose, and what we need to get from a junkyard.
His car's also missing the vacuum line diagram from the hood, which makes things worse. I'll have to sketch one (trace one?) off a junkyard car. I might hit the boneyard early Thurs or Friday morning, before work. Actually- I guess the PCV line, running from the TB to the intake manifold to the PCV valve, could rebuilt with regular 'ol hose, with a T connector...
Someone did some strange electrical work on this Camaro before he got it. Not only was there the strange splicing of the wires at the junction block, but his alternator had some more home-made wiring. They also tapped into the main engine harness for a kill switch! (I have no idea how the switch works; and I don't want to probe further to figure it out.) Some wire looms weren't tied down "normally", either. Looks like my "strive for perfection" is going to make me re-wire the junction block & alternator.
Past that garbage, here's what's left to the Camaro before we can pull the motor: We need to remove the y-pipe from the exhaust manifold. We need to unbolt the transmission. We need to either swing the P/s pump out of the way, or remove it. We need to unhook the oil pressure sensors, the coolant sensor at the passenger head, and the ground strap & ECM ground wires from the passenger head. We also need to remove the starter and the wires going to it.
I didn't bother to take any pictures of anything; we can use my car as a guide so far. When we get down to pulling the 2.8, that's when I'll start taking "how the heck was this put together?" pictures. I'll try to snap one of the car as it is now for you curious people
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
Sunday, we worked on the car. As for the 2.8 on the engine stand, we: Put the timing chain on, set the valve lash, put the timing chain front cover on, and put the water pump on. What's left? Put on the oil pan, prime the oil pump, and put the balancer on. We have to put the cold-start-injector, coolant & oil sensors, thermostat, & water neck on after pulling them from the blown '89's 2.8.
As for the Camaro itself, well, we started taking it apart. The intake ducting, TB, upper plenum, fuel rail, lower plenum, alternator, belt, tensioner, idler pulley (where an AIR pump would be), distributor, alternator bracket, EGR solenoid/coil bracket, fan, and radiator were removed. The air conditioning (compressor/condensor/accumulator/evaporator) was removed by lifting the system out as one complete unit. (For those curious, the '89 has Torx bolts for the water pump & timing chain cover.)
We had to cut the positive battery cable where it went to the positive junction block (on the passenger side of the radiator). It went between the a/c lines. While we were pulling it all apart, I noticed someone had "rigged" the wires at the junction block- they split one wire, and spliced it into another. When we had the block out, and were trying to remove the positive battery cable's ring terminal from it, I found out why- the nut (of the junction block) had rusted onto the screw. The terminal was just spinning in the junction block. To make a long story short- we need to get a junction block out of a junkyard.
All the vacuum lines are SNAPPED! My friend was brutal on his car- he didn't baby the lines at all. All I heard was "snap! oops! snap! damn! snap! $@^%!" I looked up and saw a perfectly fine FPR-to-TB-to-EGR line go flying in pieces. They're all toast- even the plastic PVC lines. What a shame! He even snapped the EGR solenoid trying to remove its vacuum lines. I'm so glad it's his car and not mine!
He also broke the diverter valve on the heater hoses, and cracked the heater/evaporator box's top cover (when we removed the a/c system). We saved the vacuum line pieces; I'm going to see what (if any) I can rebuild with hose, and what we need to get from a junkyard.His car's also missing the vacuum line diagram from the hood, which makes things worse. I'll have to sketch one (trace one?) off a junkyard car. I might hit the boneyard early Thurs or Friday morning, before work. Actually- I guess the PCV line, running from the TB to the intake manifold to the PCV valve, could rebuilt with regular 'ol hose, with a T connector...
Someone did some strange electrical work on this Camaro before he got it. Not only was there the strange splicing of the wires at the junction block, but his alternator had some more home-made wiring. They also tapped into the main engine harness for a kill switch! (I have no idea how the switch works; and I don't want to probe further to figure it out.) Some wire looms weren't tied down "normally", either. Looks like my "strive for perfection" is going to make me re-wire the junction block & alternator.
Past that garbage, here's what's left to the Camaro before we can pull the motor: We need to remove the y-pipe from the exhaust manifold. We need to unbolt the transmission. We need to either swing the P/s pump out of the way, or remove it. We need to unhook the oil pressure sensors, the coolant sensor at the passenger head, and the ground strap & ECM ground wires from the passenger head. We also need to remove the starter and the wires going to it.
I didn't bother to take any pictures of anything; we can use my car as a guide so far. When we get down to pulling the 2.8, that's when I'll start taking "how the heck was this put together?" pictures. I'll try to snap one of the car as it is now for you curious people
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
03-13-2001, 09:07 PM
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Sounds like you're having fun Tom... I just wrapped up a few little touches on my swap tonight. Put on the exhaust manifolds (But put the gaskets on upside down... shouldn't hurt it, should it? Doesn't look like it), put a bracket with the ignition module (I think... it has a wire that goes from it to the cap) on, some other bracket which as of now has no purpose (I forgot... whoops), and that's about it.
Heh, at least you have another car (yours) to go by somewhat for the vaccum lines... mine are broken in several thousand peices (well, not really) and I don't know what goes where. I don't know if there's one in my Chilton's or Haynes manual (got both free with the car!
), but I'm gonna check there.
I am trying to snap a couple pics showing the process of the swap, but as of now, I've just got pics of the 2.8 in the car, 2.8 and 3.4 next to each other, and the 3.4 starting to be stripped down. I'm gonna take one of the 3.4 complete on the garage floor, and then again when it's in the car, so I have kinda "before and after" shots. Don't worry, I'll post them.
If all goes according to plan (which, with my luck, it won't) I should be back behind the wheel by the end of the weekend. I can't wait for that first long ride with the T-tops off and the subs thumpin'.... I just hope it'll pull like a freight train!! LMAO... Sorry Ked... couldn't resist that one
Good luck with the rest of the swap Tom, and keep us updated.
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
Heh, at least you have another car (yours) to go by somewhat for the vaccum lines... mine are broken in several thousand peices (well, not really) and I don't know what goes where. I don't know if there's one in my Chilton's or Haynes manual (got both free with the car!
), but I'm gonna check there. I am trying to snap a couple pics showing the process of the swap, but as of now, I've just got pics of the 2.8 in the car, 2.8 and 3.4 next to each other, and the 3.4 starting to be stripped down. I'm gonna take one of the 3.4 complete on the garage floor, and then again when it's in the car, so I have kinda "before and after" shots. Don't worry, I'll post them.
If all goes according to plan (which, with my luck, it won't) I should be back behind the wheel by the end of the weekend. I can't wait for that first long ride with the T-tops off and the subs thumpin'.... I just hope it'll pull like a freight train!!
LMAO... Sorry Ked... couldn't resist that one Good luck with the rest of the swap Tom, and keep us updated.
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
03-13-2001, 09:09 PM
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Tom,
I spent a whole day rebuilding the vacuum hoses. I used 5/16" windshieldd wiper hose to do it. I used electrical tape on the manifold fitting at the back of the intake.
All the stuff in the yard, is as bad as what was removed from this car you are working on. I went and got a new T fitting from a store.
I was lucky to recreate everything. This stuff just snaps, period. No ones fault. Keep at it. I broke the same water fitting in front of the waterpump. This guy resoldered it for $5. Works perfect.
The stuff is old, just our luck!
One should be able to open a similar vintage engine bay hood & see what the vacuum hoses look like.
All mine fell back into place.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
I spent a whole day rebuilding the vacuum hoses. I used 5/16" windshieldd wiper hose to do it. I used electrical tape on the manifold fitting at the back of the intake.
All the stuff in the yard, is as bad as what was removed from this car you are working on. I went and got a new T fitting from a store.
I was lucky to recreate everything. This stuff just snaps, period. No ones fault. Keep at it. I broke the same water fitting in front of the waterpump. This guy resoldered it for $5. Works perfect.
The stuff is old, just our luck!
One should be able to open a similar vintage engine bay hood & see what the vacuum hoses look like.
All mine fell back into place.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
03-13-2001, 11:20 PM
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WHOOOO-WHOOOOO
Love hearing the sound of compliments!
Happy to add a smile somewhere.
ALl the wiring and hoses start to fall back into place as they are being assembled on the engine, in the engine bay.
The drag part about these swaps is they are so unimpressive looking to an outsider.
I mena, you recreate what you already had.
Not much visual fun, at all. But, looking at the jokers face, the next traffic light, after you blew him away... that's classic.
Seeing the smog station person go, ok you pass, you'll see my face beaming!!
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Love hearing the sound of compliments!
Happy to add a smile somewhere.
ALl the wiring and hoses start to fall back into place as they are being assembled on the engine, in the engine bay.
The drag part about these swaps is they are so unimpressive looking to an outsider.
I mena, you recreate what you already had.
Not much visual fun, at all. But, looking at the jokers face, the next traffic light, after you blew him away... that's classic.
Seeing the smog station person go, ok you pass, you'll see my face beaming
!!------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
03-14-2001, 10:45 AM
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Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
Yeah, it is pretty fun! All our friends are stopping by to check on us; one told me that I look like I'm "in my element"- and she's right!
87CamaroLT, I'm so amazed that there are no vacuum line diagrams in my '86 Firebird GM Service manual.. I didn't think to check in the Haynes. I'll have to give it a shot. And yeah, it's hard to decide what pics to take; I'm not going to show you guys a picture of the car without it's alternator, then the car without it's intake, etc... I don't have enough film (or patience!) to go that in-depth.
I'm looking forward to your set, though! I'll have to do a "quickie" web page to show the set we have; it'll probably be through one of those annoying "Free web site" places, like Geocities or similar. What's the least annoying (and fastest connection) one, does anyone know? I have the "ultimate" connection at work, and I can never connect to Geocities right away.
KED, you should've seen the muscle he put behind these vacuum lines! It's definately his fault! (laughs) That's alright, tho. We're hitting the junkyard this weekend to get some of the other parts he broke; I figure we'll try to get as many factory lines as possible. I myself am running with a 5/16 hose'd connection between my EGR solenoid & TB- I snapped that one when I put the cleaned injectors in. We'll have to see what the junkyards hold.
My friend also painted his engine! So after the swap, there will be a difference to look at. He did the block and heads orange, and the rest he sprayed with chrome. He even did the plenum- I thought it wouldn't look good, but it turned out alright! So at least our friends will see a difference, because they saw what we started with.
Lucky for me, too, it's getting warmer out. Hopefully the warm weather will hold. We should be working on the motor Friday, Sat morning, & Monday; so I'll post another update next Tuesday... hopefully.
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
87CamaroLT, I'm so amazed that there are no vacuum line diagrams in my '86 Firebird GM Service manual.. I didn't think to check in the Haynes. I'll have to give it a shot. And yeah, it's hard to decide what pics to take; I'm not going to show you guys a picture of the car without it's alternator, then the car without it's intake, etc... I don't have enough film (or patience!) to go that in-depth.
I'm looking forward to your set, though! I'll have to do a "quickie" web page to show the set we have; it'll probably be through one of those annoying "Free web site" places, like Geocities or similar. What's the least annoying (and fastest connection) one, does anyone know? I have the "ultimate" connection at work, and I can never connect to Geocities right away.
KED, you should've seen the muscle he put behind these vacuum lines!
It's definately his fault! (laughs) That's alright, tho. We're hitting the junkyard this weekend to get some of the other parts he broke; I figure we'll try to get as many factory lines as possible. I myself am running with a 5/16 hose'd connection between my EGR solenoid & TB- I snapped that one when I put the cleaned injectors in. We'll have to see what the junkyards hold.My friend also painted his engine! So after the swap, there will be a difference to look at. He did the block and heads orange, and the rest he sprayed with chrome. He even did the plenum- I thought it wouldn't look good, but it turned out alright! So at least our friends will see a difference, because they saw what we started with.
Lucky for me, too, it's getting warmer out. Hopefully the warm weather will hold. We should be working on the motor Friday, Sat morning, & Monday; so I'll post another update next Tuesday... hopefully.
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
03-14-2001, 11:35 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TomP:
87CamaroLT, I'm so amazed that there are no vacuum line diagrams in my '86 Firebird GM Service manual.. I didn't think to check in the Haynes. I'll have to give it a shot. And yeah, it's hard to decide what pics to take; I'm not going to show you guys a picture of the car without it's alternator, then the car without it's intake, etc... I don't have enough film (or patience!) to go that in-depth.
I'm looking forward to your set, though! I'll have to do a "quickie" web page to show the set we have; it'll probably be through one of those annoying "Free web site" places, like Geocities or similar. What's the least annoying (and fastest connection) one, does anyone know? I have the "ultimate" connection at work, and I can never connect to Geocities right away.
</font>
87CamaroLT, I'm so amazed that there are no vacuum line diagrams in my '86 Firebird GM Service manual.. I didn't think to check in the Haynes. I'll have to give it a shot. And yeah, it's hard to decide what pics to take; I'm not going to show you guys a picture of the car without it's alternator, then the car without it's intake, etc... I don't have enough film (or patience!) to go that in-depth.
I'm looking forward to your set, though! I'll have to do a "quickie" web page to show the set we have; it'll probably be through one of those annoying "Free web site" places, like Geocities or similar. What's the least annoying (and fastest connection) one, does anyone know? I have the "ultimate" connection at work, and I can never connect to Geocities right away.
</font>
As for the website, Angelfire seems to me to be the easiest, although it has times where it's a little quirky. And, for some reason, they don't like you linking pics from your site to message boards. Dunno why...
------------------
--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....
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03-14-2001, 11:41 PM
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Drag part about getting vacuum lines from the yard. You can't slip them into your pants pocket.
Hey Who does that?
Yeah , it'll be a warm weekend, I hope too.
I need a fender for $10.
Wouldn't mind getting a top of the air box assembly so I can butcher one for a CAI.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Hey Who does that?
Yeah , it'll be a warm weekend, I hope too.
I need a fender for $10.
Wouldn't mind getting a top of the air box assembly so I can butcher one for a CAI.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
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