evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

Hello all, whenever i first start my car it acts as if it wants to die, i have to stay on the gas for a few minutes or it will die on me, after i re start it a few times it smooths out and runs good besides my vac leaks but any tips here?

86ttopbird

Clean out your throttle body and take out your IAC and clean all the crap off the tip. Make sure you dont push down on the pintle tip as this will mess up the adjustment. While you have your IAC out, clean out the passages with copious amounts of carb cleaner and some pipe cleaners or a nylon brush so you dont booger up the throttle body. Once you have everything clean, Check your TPS voltage with a digital volt meter to see where the voltage is.(you can do a search on this forum to find out how to properly check and adjust it.) It should be around .54 volts. If its not, then it should be adjusted (this is a band-aid fix) or flat out replaced. Vacuum leaks will make a car not want to run. Make sure your PCV valve is seated properly. Take it out and shake it. If you hear it rattling, then that is good. If you don't just get a new one, they are cheap enough. When you put the PCV valve back in, make sure it is seated properly in its grommet or you will have a vac leak there too. Check your intake accordion hose for cracks and splits. Check your timing to see that it is still set to factory specs.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Fix the vacuum leaks and then do the above. Also check the MAF sensor film for being flat. You can use electrical tape as a band-aid to get things such as the PCV valve sealed to the grommet (can also replace the grommet if you can find one). Make sure the ends of the idle air pipe aren't cracked to crap, along with the intake bellows.

If you're not using the MAF sensor at the moment, you kind of need to...

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

im running a maf , also how would i go to cleaning the TB?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Take the bellows off, take the TB off, spray liberally with either carb or fuel injection intake cleaner, scrub with stiff brush (NOT a wire brush unless you have a brass brush handy as the brush will remove metal). remove the electrical parts, though. Do the same with the pintle on the IAC, the thing sticking out towards the rear of the car with the 4-wire square connector on it. Unscrew it from the top of the TB, clean off the end of the part at the end of the spring, and clean the passage that it sits against. DO NOT take the top of the TB off unless you want to wait a week for your local parts store to get a TB gasket pack in (the only way you can replace the top gasket...trust me on this).

Luke

The IAC is sqaure and prob the clip is busted off,( mine was) so it may be set in 4 differnt direction. I had the same prob where I had to wait till the motor was hot to drive. Make sure the IAC is in the correct rotation/position. LOOK at where the clip should have been then reset it.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

Dan, iv already bought the gasket kit, remember i had to reinstall the upper plenum so i had no choice but to get that kit.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

Whats the maf have to do with anything?, doesnt it just tell the CPU how much air is traveling into the engine?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

clip is there, the IAC is running in the ight direction.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

Cleaned the IAC, it was BUILT up with dirt and grim and i clean where it sits at, also what are the bellows? is it the thing that the IAC sits in? also i still have to check the MAF, the timing but someone told me that it starts up to quick for the timing to be off so any help?, also where is the TPS and the PCV at?, after cleaning the IAC and reinstalling it still dies on me, i have to stay on the gas for it to even stay running, if i take my foot off it dies after a few secounds..

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Ugh, too many things to respond to here...

1. Even if the clip is broken off of the square IAC connector, unless the round stuff covering the terminals are broken off, the connector will still go into the IAC one way. The round pegs are slotted like a key.

2. When I said a TB gasket kit, I meant just that. There is a different kit for just the TB than there is for the entire upper intake. You'd want the kit for just the TB if you were to take off the top of the TB.

3. Without the MAF, which does measure the air entering the engine directly, the ECM has to guess how much air is entering the engine. As a result, the engine will run like crap, if it runs at all. A bad MAF may make the engine stall until the coolant temp registers on the gauge. Sounds like you're suffering from a bad MAF. Check for a code 33 or 34. And then remove it (the MAF) and make sure the orange film is flat when you look in the out end.

4. TPS is right under the IAC, with the 3-wire connector. PCV is next to the oil filler cap on the driver's side valve cover, connected to the idle air pipe with a section of fuel injection hose. And the bellows is the rubber thing between the MAF or air box and the throttle body.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

question, could taking the MAF out all together change anything? from what iv read i cant tell if the MAF is bad untill i get my gauges or use my buddys ADLD reader. im staying home from work tomorrow to get all this done, what im asking is could me unplugging the MAF and removing it do anything different than leaving it on? the reason i ask is because my buddys camaro dies when ever he plugs the MAF in and installs it, but when he keeps it off it runs fine.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

checked the MAF, from what i can tell the orange film is flat, also tested the PCV valve, its good its got something knocking around inside it so thats good

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

Took the MAf, the bellows, and the snokle off just to see what would happen i hit the key and she started right up without me touching the gas...any info? bad MAF?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

how do i go about checking the TPS voltage? does the ignition need to be on or do i have to have the car running?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

got a code 21, i need to learn how to adjust this!!!!

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Bad MAF... To check the MAF, you can't just look at the film inside. You need to use it as a mirror to reflect some light coming into the screen end off of. If you do that, it will either appear flat or not. With the MAF removed and the engine running like it is supposed to, it's bad. Disconnecting it is one part of the troubleshooting process. If the MAF passes the reflection test, then swap the relay by the pass side headlights with one of the ones by the brake booster, and plug the MAF back in. If the engine runs better with the MAF plugged in and a different relay, the relay was bad. If not, and you can get the engine to run for any decent amount of time when holding the gas for a bit and then letting off, tap on the MAF with the head of a ratchet or a screwdriver handle. If the engine stumbles, then the MAF is bad.

TPS adjustment is easy. Get a multimeter and put the leads in the blue and the black terminals. Turn the key to the RUN position but don't start the engine. Loosen the 2 screws on the TPS and adjust its position until the meter reads .55VDC. Tighten the screws, open the throttle plate all the way and close it again, and check the voltage at the TPS again. If you're still getting a 21, then the TPS is crap. I have at least 1 if you need it.

Oh, and code 12 doesn't mean anything unless it doesn't come up. And you don't need an ALDL code scanner to pull codes as a paperclip does the job just fine.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

i used the paperclip, also i had the MAF pluged in but when i had the car running and i put my hand over the maf and covered it the car ran PERFECT, as soon as i took my hand away it started to stumble to want to die again..EDIT, also when i had everything on and the MAF unplugged i couldnt tell a difference really, its when i remove it completely that it runs better or i put my hand over it blocking it

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

changed relays, nothing, started smaking the MAF, i only got the engine to rev alittle bit but thats all i could do, i cant seem to figure out the light test, i know im stupid but yeah, i know the screen is bent on the MAF like someone was hitting it

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, let me put it this way. Whomever owned the car before you did tried to smash the screen out of the MAF, which is altogether a BAD idea, and didn't quite make it. The smashed screen is blocking air from entering the engine just as it is blocking you from reflecting light off of the heated film. It needs to be replaced, plain and simple, and it's going to cost about $80 for a NEW one. Try looking on eBay for a new one. They pop up on there frequently. I got mine for $50 a few months ago.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

got a new one for $55 just have to go pick it up, i noticed that when i have the MAF out and have the car on and touch the gas it tried to die on me, it only does it once then i can idle and touch the gas fine. also my TPS is back to factory, all im getting now is a MAF code 34

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

back at this again, got home today and pluged the MAF in and tried to start the car and nothing, it wont even start, its firing but wont run!!, also i have a question, with my throttle body door CLOSED its a 1, when its open its at 5, is this correct? i REALLY need to get this car running smooth right so i can get it into paint, the car run friday great without a MAF but now i cant get it to do anything, i cleared my codes and im only getting a code 21, TPS so i need to figure out what to do there and i need to figure out why shes not starting, she turning over great and firing and i smell gas but it will just not start, it started on fluid again but dies when that was out, i got some smoke from near my dizzy but idk?! help!

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Disconnect the battery for a minute and then reconnect it. The ECM may need to adjust to the new sensor as it's flooding the engine at the moment.

Did you adjust the TPS yet? Probably should do that. The TPS should read .55VDC with the throttle closed and around 5 open. With the key on and engine not running.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

i have disconnected the battery, i took the neg post off for about a minute, also changed the TPS, its at 1 closed and 5 open, i couldnt figure out how to get it down to .55, do i turn it sideways or go up or down with it when adjusting it, also i tried starting without the MAF plugged in and still nothing engine was not running when i checked the TPS

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

You need to push the connector side of the TPS down after loosening the screws to get the output to come down. That might be the whole issue, and may not. Also check to make sure everything else is connected.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

okay, i check that tomorrow, also iv checked everything and its all set, its starting on fluid again but not on its own, what i dont understand is it was running friday before i left for my dads, im the only one with keys and the doors were locked so noone could have messed with anything.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Worse comes to worse, disconnect the MAF again and see what happens. It may or may not need to go back to the store.

Killert

iTrader: (9)

If the TPS reads 5V it will turn on a light. The ecm thinks its shorted, it should be just under 5V though.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

ill try that......if its something simple im gonna start throwing tools......everyone keeps telling me im out of gas here but idk!! i cant check it because my gas gauge doesnt work.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

it reads 5v at WOT, im only throwing one code and its a code 21, im going to readjust it tomorrow, im taking off from work again to get it going....

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Go and get a couple gallons of gas just for kicks. Also check to make sure the fuel pump is running.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

fuel pump is running, iv checked that, and i smelled gas when cranking so idk, ill get some gas in the morning since its late here and try it, any other things i should try?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

TPS is right now, also the engine acts like its not getting fuel again, i have fuel at the rail and alot of pressure but its just turning over and will fire occationally but wont start without fluid, also someone told me that im not getting enough vacum to the fuel regulator....could my fuel regulator finally died on me?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Pull the vacuum line off of the FPR and check it for gas. That's the easiest way to tell if it's leaking. Check the fuel injector circuit again. The hiccup is caused by the cold start injector pushing fuel into the cylinders but not enough to run. Also check the oil pressure switches to make sure they haven't been disturbed, especially the 2-wire one.

The fact that you have pressure in the fuel rail leads to another electrical problem.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

i checked the fuel injectors, they have power running to them, whats the FPR? and where are the oil pressure switchs at?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

FPR... fuel pressure regulator

Oil pressure units are by the... oil filter. There's 2 on your 86, a 2-wire and a 1-wire, the 2-wire for the fuel pump and the other for the dash.

Did you try starting up again without the MAF?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

as far the the FPR i pulled the line off the TB and nothing but ill pull it off the FPR and see, do i just pull it off and crank it or something else? also i tried it without the maf and nothing, right now i have just an open TB no bellows or anything..

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

oil pressure switchs are both on and tight

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I meant to check to see if they are working by using a test light in the back of the connectors, or by jumping the terminals of the 2-wire unit as the engine is cranked.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

couldnt i test them from the front? i couldnt get to the back with my test light so i got under the car and tested where they plug in, i have power to the single plug, and i have power to ONE side of the two wire plug. something wrong with it? also could not having the alturnater belt on make it not run? when i got under my car today i noticed it was laying on the ground, but i cant figure out how to put it back on.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Use a piece of wire to connect the 2 terminals of the 2-wire oil pressure switch together and then crank the engine. It could be that the ECM is priming the system but there is another problem causing the fuel pump to not run. I know that when mine is disconnected, even with the relay plugged in and working, the fuel pump still won't run.

As for the belt, does the engine have a single belt or 3?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

the fuel pumps running, when i turn the key to on i hear it priming, as the belts go, i have 3 i have v belts.

9manastacio

iTrader: (4)

have you tested you ignition coil? Does this thing crank and act like its going to fire, or does it just keep turning over?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

no need to test the coil since it starts on fluid, its still turning over and firing so were good on that.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Just because the pump primes doesn't mean it runs when the engine is cranking...

9manastacio

iTrader: (4)

did you check the fuses for the fuel injectors, it is the under dash panel. Sounds like a fuel problem if youre getting good spark. Also, you probably know this, but being maf, be sure all the clamps between the maf and throttle bdy are tight, make sure there are no holes in the ducting, or any vacuum leaks, MAF can be picky about unmeasured airflow sneaking into the engine

9manastacio

iTrader: (4)

also, is this on your 2.8 0r your 3.1?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

but wouldnt i love pressure after awhile on the fuel rail if it wasnt? im just curious im still gonna check this but yeah.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

its on my 2.8, all my fuses are good, i know its a fuel problem i just have to figure out why and where, also i have the maf in tight, but the engine will still start without the maf in there and the bellows gone, i was doing this last week when my MAF died, its a new MAF.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, that brings us to the question: Are the fuel injectors firing? If the fuel system is holding pressure while the engine is being cranked, either you have a. fuel but no spark, or b. spark but no fuel injection. We can assume you have spark because the engine runs just fine on starting fluid, so that leaves us with not having fuel injection. Run the test light test again on the blue and green fuel injector wires.

Does that friend of yours have just a code reader or a full scanner? If they have a full scanner, look at the engine RPM while cranking. If the engine speed shows above 0, there are other problems. If the engine speed shows 0, you're running on base spark provided by the ignition module, and there is a problem between the ECM and the distributor. Check that both of the plugs in the black module in the base of the dizzy are plugged in, along with the 2-wire connector under the cap. The funny thing about our engines is that the ignition module actually runs the engine until engine speed reaches 400 RPM, when the ECM takes over. If you're putting starting fluid in the engine instead of fuel, this bypasses the ECM altogether if you're not getting fuel injection, and the engine will run like crap (because or minimum spark advance).

If you'd like, I can trade you an ECM and TPS for the fan and radiator mount.