1986v6

Ok so I am getting to the point where I am getting ready to fix up my little 2.8 wheezer, I know it would probably be better/cooler to swap in something bigger but I want to stay original as I am getting my tranny rebuilt and I want this car to remain as original as possible such as making it a numbers matching car, yeah its a 1986 camaro v6 and no one will really care but I do.

So on to my question, what are some suggestions for building this motor for more power with out the addition of a turbo or nitrous, I dont want a monster but I would like to do some burnouts if I feel the need, I already plan on the following mods,

Custom bent cat back
High flow or cat delete
high perf. muffler
modified air intake filter boxes
maybe ram air mod
fram air hog or better filters
full synthetic treatment to engine trans and rear
rebuild from block up maybe complete if bottom end is in question at all
I want to do more but I do not want to sacrifice drivabilty for power as This car will regularly make 400 mile drives.

So please any body with experience with these little motors help me out.
part numbers and suppliers would help also used parts dont scare me anybody got something cool for sale.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

If your rebuilding the top end might as well do a 3X00 swap. Check the stickies at the top.
I have a UDP and it works out pretty well, I'd recomend getting one. Get a K&N to start with, power gains will be small if any, but you'll end up saving money. Don't buy Fram anything. Make sure to get a 180* t-stat, they run much better lower. I always recomend getting a trans cooler. I'm sure there's more...

1986v6

UDP?? not sure what that is, my only problem with the 3x00 swap is then it wont be a numbers matching car and I plan on keeping it original.

86ttopbird

You can have your original iron heads ported and polished. This will keep your numbers matching. Same with the intake. As for bolt-on's, there are headers available as well as cat back exhaust kits. You can either fabricate your own or buy a cold air intake kit which basically replaces your restrictive intake ducting with free-flow stuff. You can do a cam change too as well as roller rockers. Dont delete your cat. You dont really need to mess with it(its illegal to remove a properly functioning cat unless you are racing only) unless its busted up inside then you can get a high flow one. If you are going to rebuild the engine, you can have it bored and stroked to 3.4 specs. Thats basically what a 3.4 is anyway. You can also tune your ECM. There is alot of power to be unlocked by simply tuning the computer. However, if you have a 302 ECM, you will most likely have to change over to a 7730 or 77165 ECM to be able to tune. But, if you are planning to keep all the bone stock stuff on your car, then porting your heads is about your only option. There is power to be made, but it requires swapping in and replacing parts.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

I'd understand the numbers matching thing if it was an IROC or some other special model combination but a 2.8 V6 camaro will never have any value to a collector. At the very least you could keep the old iron heads soaked in gun oil and sealed in trash bags if you ever needed them..lol

As previously stated you can shovel a bunch of money into the 2.8 and you might gain 10-15 HP.. maybe 20 but as you stated you want it to be reliable. Your best bet is to swap on a gen3 top end with a Comp 260H cam, set of headers, '7730 ECM and some tuning. Stroke it up to a 3.1 while you are at it. That should take you from 135 HP to 180 or so and will also gain a decent amount of torque.

86ttopbird

Or just cut out the middle man and swap in a 3.4 with 3500 top end thats ported and polished and fitted with the right cam. You could get a bit over 200 HP out of that easily. All you have to do is tune it.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Under drive pulley. It's alot smaller than the stock one so it reduced the accessory drag on the engine.
If you want to keep it all original, than you're options are down to bolt ons and port work, not that that's a bad thing. I'll probably never end up doing a hybrid or turbo.

1986v6

as far as tuning goes, how do I fiure out what I have as an ecu? my main concern being that I am doing this build on a budget and buying new heads and all the other pieces to do a top end swap or even a motor swap gets rather expensive considering that I would have to rebuild the motor I buy any way. As far as intake I already have the dual snorkel which I thought with the filter box mods and good filters would flow every bit as good as a CAI seeing that it is basically a v8 intake and this little motor wont need more then that even if it was stroked. can any body give me a price range on a tune cam and headers using decent pieces and tell me where to get a tune is there somewhere to mail my ecu to?

Project 3.4 Camaro

Wrong, it can be stroked to a 3.1, it can NOT be bored to a 3.4, it is the same block design, but the 3.4 has a little more meat on it than the 2.8.

To answer the OP, head porting, intake porting, camshaft, headers, high flow cat(these days they really don't restrict exhaust at all if its a high flow) and catback exhaust from dynomax, you don't need a custom, this is cheaper, and has mandrel bends, underdrive pulleys, AC delete, K&N filters(just get K&Ns, with a million mile warranty there's no excuse not to) get a standalone ECM instead of messing around with w/e the hell you have, megasquirt ECMs are cheap, and far easier to tune as well as being much more versatile(they are well worth the money).
You are correct about your intake setup, that dual snorkel IS already a CAI by default and about the best damn intake setup a car could possibly have, only thing better is ram air, or gutting the bottom of the air box both of which are very easy to do using what you already have.
You could if you wanted put a 3.4l shortblock in, being how similar it is, nobody would be able to tell the difference without tearing it apart, you basically swap everything from your 2.8 onto that block.
For cam, go to delta cams, and ask for a 260 grind and new lifters, its $120 shipped to your door, its the same thing as comp cams 260 but alot cheaper. Provided you don't need things on your engine, cam and headers shouldn't cost more than $550 all said and done.

86ttopbird

If he doesnt even know where to start tuning his ECU or what type it is, how in the hell is he going to manage a megasquirt? To the OP, i suggest looking at the stickies around the forums here. Its how i started. I said that a 3.4 is BASICALLY a bored and stroked 2.8. BUT since i dont know it all like some seem to do, ill keep what knowledge i do have to myself.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

No, you said:


a 2.8 has a 2.99" stroke and a 3.5" bore
a 3.1 has a 3.31" stroke and a 3.5" bore
a 3.4 has a 3.31" stroke and a 3.62" bore


you can't safely bore out a 2.8/3.1 .120". ARI does it but they are idiots.

I agree, a 3.4 is a much better starting platform. Even better would be a full gen3 swap

Project 3.4 Camaro

Our ECUs are obscure outdated things to try to figure out how the hell to tune, you have to know what parts you need, where to find them, how to actually tune them, megasquirt is easier to learn to tune then a regular ECU would be, that's part of the whole point of one, its compatible with any vehicle, so its transferable if you get a new one, its easy to tune, easy to learn how to use, versatile, etc. It's like learning DOS vs. learning windows xp.....
I'm not trying to discredit you, or be a jerk or anything, just want the OP to have the most accurate information, we're all here to help. And as for knowledge, there's always going to be someone who knows more...

1986v6

ok so if I chose to do so what other cars can I get a 3.4 block form? does it have to be a camaro/bird or can I get one from something like a lumina or the likes? if I do swap to a 3.4 will the exhaust and cam and comp be able to swap over?

Project 3.4 Camaro

Everything swaps over, that block is a direct bolt in, it has the exact same heads and cam as the 3.1 and 2.8l engines, the only cars you can get one from is a 93-95 F-body. Any other GM 3.4 is going to be a fwd transverse engine and an entirely different engine for your intents and purposes.

1986v6

hmm, so the only 3.4 usable is the f body engines so i am limited there, did the s10 or sonoma come with any other engines that are bolt in?

Project 3.4 Camaro

Other than the 2.8 or 3.1, nothing that I'm aware of.

kevmann

I do not know much about making these engines faster. I too like my v-6 but I totally agree with the others. It really does not matter if we have matching numbers when it comes to value. I dont think our v-6 cars will ever be really valuable or sought after. I think the option I am going to go with is the 3.4. Just think of all the money you would have to spend building up a 2.8 just to get it up to where a 3.4 would be(which still isnt a whole lot).

Thats just my opinion.

Kevin

1986v6

I too agree that no collector will ever care about my v6 camaro, but thats not the point I DO, I want to build this little motor to be a respectable little v6 that can burn the tires on occasion and get decent mileage too, I could just do like everyone else and stick with the whole bigger engines are always better but with gas at almost three dollars a gallon at least with my little 2.8 I will be able to drive my car on a regular basis. So who knows where to get rocker arms for this little motor? I am wondering if the stock cam and a set of 1.6 rockers would be benifitial as a means of slightly improving this motor and if so what gains could I expect.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Um, spending money beefing up a 2.8 is by no means wasted money, everything you do with the 2.8 can be used with the 3.4 as well.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Summit racing has rockers, I don't think 1.6 ratio ones fit in the stock valve covers though, pretty sure you need fiero ones, as for cams, get one from delta cams, get a 260 grind, its identical to comp cams 260 cam but half the price, with new lifters.

RandogLeader

One thing that you failed to mention was how many miles are on this engine. Trying to beef up a high mileage engine with all sorts of mods is like trying to build your dream home on cinder blocks. Especially when you start trying to go with more aggressive cams or something like nitrous, you could easily blow up your engine. Most of the mods available are like 10-15HP increments, anyway. We all understand the loyalty that you feel towards the V6 but if you want to gain more power, the biggest bang for the buck is gonna be that 3.4 swap which could give as much as 60 or more HP alone. From that point, you have made the biggest increase in power, given your whole car a new lease on life (you do want a low-mileage 3.4), and now you have a STRONG foundation to add all those extra little mods like icing on a cake. Let's put it this way, I am not spending a dime on any mods until I do get my 3.4. Until then, I'll just maintain what I have as it is still my daily ride.

1986v6

Well, as far as mileage it has 153,000 but I
am tearing it down to the block, checking the bearings and rings in the bottom end replacing the oil pump and rebuilding the top end as long as the cylinders are good that is otherwise I will go .030 over and rebuild the whole thing but right now the only problem it has is worn stem seals and a leaky intake manifold gasket other than that it needs a ignition pickup coil then just the fun stuff, if I come across a short block for a 3.4 for a decent price down the line I can always put all the 2.8 goodies on there. so where can i get the fiero rockers from? and if i change rockers will I need to change pushrods or lifters at the same time?

Project 3.4 Camaro

not fiero rockers.....fiero valve covers...

1986v6

lmao, woops, ok makes more sence now, ok so is the fiero a 2.8 also or what motor should I look for to find the valve covers? and will I need pushrods or lifters I plan on checking them all out and I am trying to save some coin for headers.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Some fiero's are 4 cyl 2.5s, any other fiero is a 2.8. You shouldn't need new pushrods, and only need new lifters if you get a new cam. If you get non ceramic headers paint them with high temp paint before you put them on as the black paint they ship with isn't meant to stay on.

kevmann

Yeah I hear what you are saying and that is a great point. Its definately not a waste of money when you look at it like that. I just meant that you have to do a lot of mods to bring your horspower up to where you would already be with the stock 3.4. And why do it twice? All I know is that my 2.8 has 144k on it and it runs great so I am not going to touch it with any mods or anything until it dies.

Kevin

Project 3.4 Camaro

Not really doing it twice, either way you have to tear down/remove 2.8 to put the 3.4 in, in fact only real thing you would have to swap over extra is the cam, and heads if they're ported. And yes ideally it should all be done at once on the ideal setup, but thats not the way things always work out,lol.
Plus, a modded 2.8 can break 200 hp, what a lot of people aren't aware of is just how well these engines respond to some basic modifications, or the fact that pushrod engines are in fact not outdated technology, know that 650 hp lLS9 the corvette and CTS-V use? guess what, it has pushrods as does the LS3(pretty much same engine). Atm, I have a fairly heavily modded 2.8, and I'd bet over 200 hp, and over 230 ft tq at the crank, when I put in a 3.4.....Probably mid high 200s for hp, and close to 300 tq, and this is N/A, these engines are insane with boost.
Oh, and to clarify, correctly modded 2.8>stock 3.4, modded 3.4>L98(350 TPI)

1986v6

I think I am going to redo the 2.8 as a learning experience so that when I have the extra money maybe next year, i will have the go fast goodies and the knowledge of these motors to do it right when I get a 3.4 block, and on top of that I will have a well built 2.8 block to use if I have a bottom end failure in the future, also I could get a little coin by selling a rebuilt 2.8 shortblock as compared to scrap wieght money for a junky 2.8 block.

As for my performance mods I think i am going to go for the 1.6 rockers with fiero covers, headers, air box mods, ram air, full exhaust headers back, ported heads, maybe intake porting if money and time are there, and a rebuild any other things I could throw in with this to make a little more power? Should I run a better coil? something like a msd or some thing? will it help?
What kind of gains do you guys think this will net me?

Also how hard is it to change gearing on these cars?

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Unless you're upgrading the ignition module, fancy/expensive plugs, wires, or coil wont do you much good.
From all my readings you don't need Fireo valve covers to put in 1.6 rockers, although they do look nicer. And if you get the Comp 1.6 rockers from Summit they come with GM high energy pushrods for a pretty good price. K&N and underdrive pulley would be the only thigs I can think of to add to that list.
Dont worry about changing the gearing, you have 3.42 back there now, that's really ideal for the 2.8, good mix of acceleration and MPG's.