K-slice

iTrader: (2)

I pulled my car out the other day and it seems to be making a lot of noise in the valvetrain. One noise is kilda like bubbling, the other is closer to a knock. Any Idea what these noises could be? I made a video of the car here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEJRMtm0xAA

Edit: This crappy cell phone video actually makes it sound louder than it really is, but the sounds are noticeable, even with the hood down.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I'm thinking loose timing chain, and or a leak in something.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

I know I have an exhaust leak by the EGR somewhere, really found it after running seafoam in the brake booster yesterday.
I'm gonna run some good crank case cleaner in the oil, see if maybe it's a sticking valve or something, from the sound could that be a possability?

Project 3.4 Camaro

Seafoam works for crankcase too ya know, 1/3 can in brake booster, 1/3 in gas tank(full tank of gas) and 1/3 can in crankcase(change oil after). But I have heard of it solving problems like that so worth a shot. But if I had to guess, I think your timing chain might be sloshing around a little.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Yep, ive used it in all those palces. But got a few bottles of the crankcase cleaner we use at, some stuff called ZOOM. We usually let the car run about 1K before changing the oil and it comes out BLACK after this stuff is run.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

So the ticking is a somewhere in the passenger side valve train and the other bubbling noise is comming from the exhaust leak I think. Im not worried about the latter, but what can I do to get the valve to stop clicking?

Project 3.4 Camaro

Probably a rocker nut coming loose, retorq them to the proper specs, might also be a bad spring, lifter, or maybe even the valve itself, but I would try checking the rocker arms to see if any are loose or not, there shouldn't be any gap or play between the rocker arm and the pushrod.

enswrob

could be a bad lifter.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

How far should the nut be tightened after the pushrod has no play left in it? And doesn't the engine need to either be turned to TDC, or the oppoisit of TDC depending on what rocker is looose. How can I tell when the crank is in the right position?

Project 3.4 Camaro

I don't think it needs to be at TDC to tighten a rocker nut. But if it does, there are two timing marks on the harmonic balancer, line one up with the timing mark, but remove spark plug from cylinder one, and the timing mark that you feel compression on with thumb over spark plug hole is how you would get TDC.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Ok, so im finally getting around to this, engine is all apart, and I've read alot on how to adjust the valves. After up/down motion stops 3/4 turn on the rocker nut.

I just don't know how to get the engine in the right position. I know what valves to adjust and when but which are the intake and which is the exhaust valves? My manual also doen't tell me what cylender is what (1,2,3 4,5,6)

I've done a search but havn't found answeres to any of these.

AM91Camaro_RS

#1 is front on pass. side. Your firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6. You need to take the spark plugs out. Get someone to hold their finger over the plug hole for #1 while you turn the engine over. You will feel compression blowing out of the plug hole when both valves are closed, when that stops blowing out, that is TDC for #1. You can do this for any cylinder.
Look at which valve stem is in line with the exhaust port...thats the exhaust valve. The other is the intake.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Hmm, ok. So is the #4 cylinder the driver front? I that one has to be at TDC to adjust half the valves.

AM91Camaro_RS

#2 is front on driver's side. #3 is middle on pass side, #4 mid on driver's side, 5 back on pass side, 6 back on driver's side. each cylinder has to be at tdc and on compression stroke to adjust its valves.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

So isn't this right?

Originally Posted by firstfirebird
"To adjust the valve lash :
1 . Put cylinder one to TDC (compression stroke)
2 . Adjust one, five and six intake valves
3 . Adjust one, two and three ehxaust valves
4 . Rotate the engine until cylinder four is TDC
5 . Adjust two, three and four intake valves
6 . Adjust four, five and six exhaust valves

To adjust the valve, slowly tighten the locking nut (make sure the pointed side of the nut is up) while you rotate the pushrod in your fingertips. When you feel the slightest resistance stop. Tighten the nut 3/4 turn, I like to go about 5/8's of a turn because more damage is done with them too tight that loose (can always re-tighten if needed).

When locating TDC of either cylinder four or one, make sure the timing mark is at "0" on the compression stroke.

Firing order :
(0) <----distributor
5 6
3 4
1 2
[iiiiiiiiiiiiii] <------radiator"

AM91Camaro_RS

yeah, that method should work fine. I normally do it, both valves per cylinder. But, that should be fine.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Alright, thanks A LOT for the help! I've never had to do anyhting with valves before and want to make sure to do it right. I'll be back if I have any more questions or run into problems.
Thanks again!

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

I went to do it tonight and realized something. When #1 is at TDC the pushrods both spin freely, no up/down play, but they spin. When I tighten them back down they don't spin, is that how it's supposed to be?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Adjust the rocker nuts until ALL of the play in the valvetrain is removed for the valve you are setting (wiggle both the pushrod AND the rocker arm... when the arm stops moving, move on) and then tighten between 1/4 to 3/4 turn, depending on how your engine likes it (get a compression gauge and make sure you're not floating the valve). Turning the pushrod makes no sense as it's very inaccurate.

BTW, GM FSM spec for the valves is no lash plus a half turn on the nuts...

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

I get that part of it. what I dont get is hor come the rods seem to be alot tighter after I adjust them. They have no play but spin before the adjustment, but have no play and don't spin after? At TDC it seems like the rods shouldnt be that tight between the rockers and lifters.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The rods are that tight after the adjustment because you're pushing down on TWO spring-loaded assemblies, the hydraulic lifters (like the shocks and struts, oil-filled with spring backing) and the valves themselves. There isn't any play in these because the pistons in the lifters provide automatic adjusments for wear in the valvetrain. Which is why you're doing something called pre-loading the lifters, aka turning the rocker nut AFTER the valve lash is removed, so that the pistons in the lifters can be allowed to adjust themselves for wear.

:edit: It's only mechanical valvetrain assemblies that require a set amount of play in between the rocker and the valve stem.

AM91Camaro_RS

Don't overtighten them. If they motor hasn't run, the lifters will have bled down to where the pushrod isn't comnpletely tight but is still preloaded. I say if you have no up down play, they're probably already set right.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Ok, so I adjusted all the valves, did a little engine beautifieing, and put in a cooler thermostat.
When I fired it up the valves chatterered a bit, quieted down, then the same noise came back from before. It sounds a little different, not really louder, just different.

I've read alot of thread son here and it seems alot of poeple suggest running 1/2 a quart of ATF in the oil for a week or so. That'll be my next step I think. If that doesn't work maybe I'll try some Lucas, see if that makes a difference. Good ideas?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/2...ng-lifter.html

Project 3.4 Camaro

Honestly if you're still having problems just replace all the wear parts, camshaft, lifters, timing chain, even after you add the price of new gaskets its still only like $210 1to do it yourself. Not to mention the powergains that can be made in the process if you choose to. Camshaft and lifters from delta cams=$120 shipped to your door, comp cams double roller timing chain with new gears=$40, and the rest for new gaskets. If you're still having issues your heads most likely need rebuilt, that or you're wrong about it being valvetrain or top end and its your crank and or bearings that's going out. And if you think its the valves making the sound, its most likely bad stem seals or possibly springs.

RandogLeader

As far as that other "gurgling" sound goes, it sounds like your AIR pump to me. Whoopity do for that, though, huh?

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

I had my mechanich check it out for a few other problems it'd been having. he found that the motor mounts were shot and the engine was setting on the crossmember under the oil pan. After I got that fixed the tapping is pretty much gone...
Although I also added some Mystery miracle oil and ATF to the oil, that may have been the thing that fixed it.

That other sound is either the air pump, which is blocked, or the leak in my exhaust gasket, either one I'm not too concerned about.
Thanks for everyone's help on this issue