bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I had my foot down when it happened. You can see the ash on the face of the throttle where it was clean before. Amazing it blew the plate apart like that but it makes sense when you look at the shape of the manifold. I'm going to keep the nitrous tame for awhile so I can finish the programming I'm doing.

Gumby

Yea, Id like to see ya finish that masterful code before you reach the beyond reason limits.

project89

iTrader: (1)

nice explosion but i strongly suggest u dont try to run that much shot of nitrous with the current turbo. ur typical t4 coldside will support 400-450 hp,now with as much nitrous as ur spraying and as much power as it should make on boost alone u are seriously close if not over speeding the turbo.

i know the point is o gernade the thing but ur not going to blow it up from finding a weakness, its going to blow up from detonation from heatng the air up to much with the turbo.

id back the n20 down to 150 shot and start at 6 psi and slowly start bringing the boost up until u see air temps starting to climb way up,once u hit that spot thats about the limit for that turbo


if u can try to find a 60mm turbo or say a holset he351 turbo off ebay. th holsets run about 75 bucks and can support alot more power then the t4 compressor ur using

the holsets are vvt turbine sides but u can modify them to be controled by an internal wastegate actuator and is very simple to do

if ur interested in going that route let me know and ill get u the info on converting one of the units

alls it takes is some jb weld a drill and an internal wastegate actuator iirc

u know i wish i had a spare set of heads i could port as id donate them to the project for ya

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I'm certain overspeeding it was the cause of the backfire. It was pretty amusing looking at the datalogs and watching boost instantly peg, the curve was just short of vertical. And I could definately feel it. The lag I felt off the line was knock retard. Once it decayed out it was all over.

I may have gotten ahead of myself though, I took it home yesterday and it just didn't feel right. I took a second look at it and a leakdown test revealed I toasted the #2 & #5 rings (above 35%). I'm debating throwing some rings at it vs dropping the new motor in and turboing that sooner than I planned so I can get the code done. I can get the rings super cheap... but ultimately it's ending up scrap either way. I suppose I've answered the question I set out to answer and had some fun doing it but there's still potential for more. On the other hand I'm itching to put the new motor in!!! What do you guys want to see?

obrien

id like to see that turbo setup on my 2.8 .

but on a serious note, i think youve shown us enough what a stock 2.8 is capable of so i think you deserve to put in your other motor..

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

I wanna see some boost code.

Gumby

Um no, you can't stop till you toss parts out the bottom, bust a crank, crack the block, blow the heads off.

a couple of flaky rings in 2 cylinders isn't enough.

little borax in those two plug holes to reseat them.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Throw an m80 down the plenum for good measure :P

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

or hook up a 10,000 rpm tachometer and tell us how many rpm before a rod flies through the block. We can use inertia calculations to determine the ultimate strength of the rods (or crank) or else find out the catastrophic valve float rpm.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I don;t think the rods would take much more than the GM rating of 7500 RPM lol.

Project 3.4 Camaro

7.5k? I believe its 7k, but not positive, but somewhere in that range. Honestly though the conrods probably wouldn't be the first thing to break, not even sure the engine could get up that high in RPM without porting, full exhaust and intake. The weakness is generally the pistons, esp with detonation, only other weakness really is early year engines with the small journal cranks.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I don't think I'd be trying to put any rods through to the outside of the engine. Not a good way to make any friends by oiling down the track.

RBob.

Gumby

Have had mine to 6.5 before with no noticeable drop off in power.

all you gotta do is open up intake n exhaust [not by porting]

Little to 0 restriction air filter
straight shot exhaust with no axle loops or bends

It will rev out fast n hard to redline and beyond

Now put a simple 90* bend on the tip to shoot out the side and in the 5000s it loses noticable power.

project89

iTrader: (1)

rods can take more abuse then the gm rating, ive had a few instances were ive spun my motor above 9k on accident though this was only on a partial load from the tires spinning except the one ocasion when i shifted from 3rd to neutral . so a few quick trips above 7-7.5k should be no issue for stockers but i wouldnt plan on staying in that rpm range for extended periods of time

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I don't feel like paying the cleaning bill or worse, getting banned form the track LOL. But revving it as high as it will go on some n2o out in the parking lot might be in order. I have to remove the turbo setup so it isn't injured.

It'll be like destroying motors during cash for clunkers. Except instead of silica choking it to death n20 will zing it to death.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Cash for clunkers program pissed me off, was completely assbackward.....a lot of good cars were destroyed, a lot of poor people could have really used those cars, and its very core purpose was undermined by the fact that it takes less resource and produces less waste to drive around the same smog spewing car your whole life than it does to make a new one.....
dont mind the rant, bit of a sore topic for me :P

Anyways, I'm surprised the iron heads could even breathe to 9k...thats insane,lol.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I agree completely and it's even more frustrating when you look at the statistics of which cars were destroyed (like a GNX!!!) but it was still entertaining.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Badass_Camaro and ford_killa. DNFTT

Project 3.4 Camaro

I'm in no way agreeing with the assclown, personally I think your rims are kind of neutral(not good or bad looking), but I think the car in general, esp with those rims, would look a lot better(not saying it looks bad) if you got one of the late model pedestal mounted spoilers, and its always been my personal opinion that our cars just don't look quite right without spoilers :P Just don't take this post the wrong way, cause I really don't think it looks bad, just that it could and in my opinion would look a lot better with the spoiler

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I think it needs a bookshelf spoiler lol. I get r i c e related comments every so often, but I didn't build it for anyone but me. If someone else dislikes it that's really their problem. I've been described as abrasive before.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Nah, I plan to paint my a color called burple(really dark purple) lot of people question it but I don't care, because its my car and thats what I will like on it. If its what you like go for it, who cares what other people think, good motto to go by when it comes to car modding, as long as you at least have a vague sense of style/what looks good anyways....I've seen some non stock ugly cars turned into really ugly cars,lol.

Not sure what a bookshelf spoiler is, and that car doesn't look rice at all...rice is a 4banger(usually a civic) with a CAI(I'm guessing on this one, haven't seen the engine on this car), 4" muffler, and 3 color paint job(mismatched body panels, primer hood) Funny thing is I'm not making this up...this is describing the car of someone that now lives next door to my grandmother, some day soon I'll roll up in my Camaro when its finished and they can see what a real car looks like :P
Oh and this is in a pretty rural area, where hearing chainsaws and such isn't that uncommon, kid you not one day I heard a noise I couldn't tell if it was someone chainsawing or weedwhacking or something like that, or the *****'s car revving, LOL.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Rice is having felt or some crappy fabric all over your interior. I knew of someone that did that to his civic. Bright red. And he thought it was the coolest thing in the world. All I could do is stare. If you want to see some real ricemobiles you should check out ricecop.com

Project 3.4 Camaro

Saw an all pink(whole car, one shade of pink, even the interior...) 4th gen camaro on youtube with like 20 or 22" chrome rims, cant recall but I think they were spinners.....not quite rice...but yeah....if you're looking to ruin an otherwise nice car, that's a very effective way of going about it....

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

Fear of change, progress, and learing always cause ppl to criticize me for even thinking about touching a v6'bird... let alone actually acting on it, but then when they see the finished product they cant say a word because they don't understand it. We need that code! more weapons in the toolbox. So go outside, put a brick on the throttle pedal, and go back to work on the code... um, please.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I extracted about as much fun out of this motor as I could. Manager wasn't keen on nuking it out in the parking lot either and I tend to agree. Would've made a hell of a mess & potentially injured someone. Old motor's out and I'm wrapping up rewiring the new one. Once that's done dissection of the old will begin.

The setup is up for grabs now. $200 + shipping for the whole thing. Rebuilt TA0310 with a flange welded on the compressor output side, manifolds & plumbing, induction stuff sans bov and I'll even throw in the pan if you want it so you don't have to weld a drainback tube on your pan. More pics on request. If you need an ecm to run it I can provide that as well.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

You have no idea! Local friends are running outlaw cars, racing for $$, no times displayed, heads up - and I catch flack all the time because I am happy when one of my customers are in the 12's (hoping for a low 10 this yr from an iron head v6 customer w/69mm turbo, woot). We are getting faster with our v6's, but they always seem to smoke us for some reason lol. Caught a glimpse of their time slip, deep in the singles with a SBC Regal door-slammer...

Thinking outside the box will only expand your knowledge, and when you apply that same knowledge to a larger displacement motor, watch-out!

I don't blame bl85c for not wanting to blow the car up, it's an environmental disaster, a pain to clean up, and really just plain out pointless, specially seeing there's already a far-superior engine waiting in the midst

AM91Camaro_RS

firstfirebird, where do you race? (sorry to go off topic for a sec)

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Wow, 200 shot of nitrous and 15 PSI would have only netted a low 14? That's some serious asthma happening in that engine, that's only about 200ish WHP, assuming a 3000 lbs car. :/

I think this can prove just how superior the genIII top end is.

My 3100ish lbs 1985 Jimmy, went 13.8 at 99.3 MPH (Pissed me off I couldn't quite make that 100 MPH pass back then), with only 7 PSIG, a poor "tune" (Stock $8F), no nitrous and some aging street tires, with no traction aids. The slapper bars I built later on, REALLY helped with launching but never did get back to the track to run it again. I'm not sure what the E.T. would have been corrected for sea level, but would have been quicker yet. Dyno'd it at 218 HP, with 270 Ft/lbs to the wheels.
I could rev much past 6000 RPM, because of valve float, since I was using the stock valve springs at the time.
The engine was a 3.2L, using a 1986 2.8L block, FWD crank and pistons, spec'd for a 1990 Cavalier/Beretta/etc, 260-2 cam, stock small port 3100 top end (1995 Buick Skylark), T3 turbo from a turbo coupe (too small), not the IHI one that was mentioned earlier in this thread, Mitsubishi Starion IC. home made 1.5" headers, 2.5" exhaust with high flow cat, and no muffler. 19 lbs/hr injectors (also too small). A bunch of junk stock parts thrown together.

I can't wait to see what the TT3500 does in my Jimmy.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

To be fair it nuked on 10psi and a 200 shot with a major bog off the like (because of knock retard) before I could even get it down the strip, so I really have no idea what it would have run. I'm guessing if it had made it down the track on that pass based on the 60' it would've been about 14.3. And that's at 5800 feet. I feel like it would have been solidly in the 13's if conditions were right. But yea, those heads are crap. It could only pull a 15.1 on 6 psi and no nitrous so there's some serious restriction. Might as well have been blowing though soda straws.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Sold! First come first serve.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Sorry. Personally I don't race much, just put the hands on a few things. I have fun at the track and working on the cars, but you won't see me behind the wheel much. PBIR, SR27, Homestead, BAC are some local events/tracks...

We have a nice team put together for the Grassroots Motorsports $2010 Challenge, my name was on page 52 of Feb 2009 issue (the team's car had a 5 page spread, behind the scenes last year).

Just picked up a 1984 El Camino with a 327, TPI induction, old Accell DFI (swapping for a '7730), true duals, small chamber heads (10.8:1SCR), all for a grand total of $100 - actually inherited it, was my friend's car who bought it brand new, now has 350k miles on the chassis and this is the 3rd or 4th engine in it; his widow basically told me give her some $$ for her trip to the DMV. He would never sell the car to me, even though he knew I always wanted it and he didn't drive it anymore. Hoping to have it ready to rape the drag strip in $2011 GRM Challenge with a JY TT setup, home made suspension and some meaty tires.

GRM race is from Sept30th to Oct2nd this year in Gainsville, FL.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

By the way, if anyone wants anything else from this motor before I haul it over to the scrapyard just ask. The DIS sensor/bracket and 'reluctor' I made out of a crank pulley, the heads have 3400 beehive-style springs and new seals, fiero valvecovers, crank, rods, pistons, the nuked throttle lol, just pm me.

project89

iTrader: (1)

how much for the heads?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

PM sent.

Project 3.4 Camaro

BL85c what headers are those on your sig pic? They look like pacesetters, been wondering if there is anyway to keep my headers when I go with hybrid swap.
Also if you have 1.6 rockers by any chance I might be interested, VCs too if you have a set of 1.6 rockers.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

They're heddmans for an s-10 I had to work over to fit properly. 1.5" primaries will overlap the exhaust port slightly so I had to grind on the flange a bit and reshape the primary for a smooth transition. Also had to slot the bolt holes and bend things a little to get good clearance. I can get you 1.6 rockers.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Now that this lump's out and the new motors in and running, dissection begins next week.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

lol. It's so easy to swap a v6 in a 3rdgen, eh?

4th gens are a little more complicated easier to drop the sub-frame on them sometimes than remove enough stuff to do it from the top...

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

4th gens are easier when you have a lift. Disconnect everything, then just drop the k with everything on it. Unfortunately I've had the pleasure of removing them from the top as well.

Here's a look at what had to be done to the mercedes turbo to make it work. The blockoff plate is for a bov that would've been in the way so I had to remove it. They also don't have a flange on the output side so I had to weld one on. I like the wastegate on these, solid and out of the way. Makes clocking the turbo easy.

ericjon262

BL85C, how many miles did your car have on it before you gave it the treatment?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I have no idea. The original speedo said 85k when I replaced it with a 145mph piece and I'm not entirely certain what the previous owner had done to it when I got it. He said he replaced the motor at some point but didn't mention if it was rebuilt or just salvage. I'm guessing salvage because I freshened it up a few years back when all the leaks drove me crazy.

ericjon262

ok, I was just wondering, because I think my '85 fiero needs the turbo treatment, no NOS though.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Nice HF engine stand, lol. I have 5 of them

Naw, 4th gens are still more of a pain if you ask me, and I DO have a lift.

EDIT: What was the output before the welds, then?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Just a tube where the intake manifold slides into. Really odd design.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

And for my next trick I'll make a portion of this piston dissapear! I can't believe this cyl had any compression at all. N2o does neat stuff. Well, depending on wether or not that was your intent...

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

This is win

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

having all the forensic evidence available... can you write us a quick narrative summarizing everything that went wrong during that last launch? that way there is an account of what all broke.. and maybe some reasons why. (all in one place)

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

My foot went down and the motor blew up.

Ok, based on the datalog once I hit the nitrous it flashed lean, knock retard kicked in and held the flood back until it decayed out. By that point the air temp was high enough, the induction was flooded with nitrous and cyl temps were right on the verge of meltdown. Cyl 5 looks like the culprit based on the damage. Intake opened up, the remaining exhaust gas reacted with the fresh charge and blew the rest to pieces. Piston and spark plugs melted, throttle blasted, bov became a blow up valve and blew the adapter off with it. Moral is make sure you're on top of your fueling across the table. Even a short leanout on nitrous is enough for temps to jump into the danger zone.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

A+

TwinTurboROC

Sir, I applaud you.