forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Two 3.4L engines in the junkyard... the '95 has been wrecked in the front, but the body isn't touching the engine. There's rust on some components and will require a sawzall to get out. It's got 91k on it. The second, a '94, has 191k on it, but has not been wrecked.

Since I need a full rebuild kit anyways and I have heads with less than 2000 miles on them from my 2.8, should I really be worrying a whole lot about the bearings and rings in the 191k?

I may have to forego the 91k entirely though, if can't find a battery powered sawzall(the yard doesn't have electricity)... :/

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

I would get the 91K motor if you could.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

It's better to get the 91k mile engine for two reasons.

Reason #1: It's 100 THOUSAND MILES less than the other engine. Even if you will rebuild it, there's still less stress that has been put on the crank and rods.

Reason #2: The car is wrecked. You heard me right; you WANT the wrecked one. Why? The wreck is pretty nearly a verification that it was running recently. Non-wrecked cars usually go to the junkyard BECAUSE OF the engine.

Just something to think about...

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

The bit I'm worried about is that it was wrecked in the front... is there really that much possibility that it could have damaged the engine, or would it have to have been totaled beyond recognition for that?

I finally managed to find a sawzall to use; picking it up tomorrow morning. I'm going to be at the junkyard when they open to grab the 91k one.

enswrob

should post picks of the hack job getting that engine out.. lol

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

I totally would, but the yard doesn't allow cameras.

enswrob

booo... camera phone ftw

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

So the 91k 3.4 turned out to be rusted like crazy, so I passed it up. I took the 191k instead. First checks are good(rods are sturdy, oil was good, coolant was still green). Hopefully the rings are at least somewhat decent shape, but we'll find out soon.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I've just found out about the 3.4L engine. Seems like an amazing V6. A bit overly complicated, but hey, the coolest things are. I might have a 350, but I want continued info on this.

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

You better not let the other v8 guys hear you say that...they might dissown you Always good to hear interest from the "big boys" though.


191K...thats a lot of driving. Hopefully it was mostly highway miles.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Well, I'd gladly take a 'vette LT5, which is the V8 equivalent of the 3.4, but that engine sells for $10k without the computer or transmission. Crazy.

That, and I wouldn't mind a V6 commuter car.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

That's what I'm hoping. This engine *looks* to be in good shape, all the liquids were the right color, etc. We'll find out once I drop it in, which I'm hoping to do in two weeks or so.

EDIT: Also, I noticed while taking this one out, that this car was also wrecked, though not nearly as badly. Using clues from inside the car, it was driven by a girl who is now about 22, and wrecked the car sometime in '07(when she was 21-ish). Car came from Missouri. The bit that attacked the coils to the a-arms was SNAPPED on the driver side, where she was hit.

Also, I want to find the person responsible for the design of the fourth gen engine bay and punch them in the face. Someone must have been on crack and drinking heavily to think to themselves, "Hey, let's put half the engine under the dash!"

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

The under the dash engine is why 4th gens make wonderful parts cars and awful cars to work on for yourself. You went through 4th gen hell, so be proud and wear it like a badge of honor!

Good job!

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Oh! The fourth gen 3.4L. I thought you were talking about the DOHC LQ1 3.4L that was in Luminas, Monte Carlos, etc. Then I just realized that none of those were in a FR configuration, and would require extensive mods to swap to a RWD (Although I've read it's been done!)

Either way, sounds like you have some fun on your hands!

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Those are called the 3400s. Just like the 3100 in the old Cavalier Z24. Same 60* v6 family, but FWD. The RWD 60* V6 engines are limited to the 2.8/3.1/3.4.

KBcobra

LT5 was a 350, true beast.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Well, when I posted that I thought the 3.4 was the dual overhead cam V6. So the LT5 was a dual overhead cam gen-1 350. Which was the comparison I was making.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

That's probably the hardest rwd engine bay to work in. Another reason I'm glad to have a 3rd gen.

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

That's why I love these cars. Cheap and plentiful parts, easy to work on, and look great.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

WTF, how would they know? Ive taken my big pro camera in before, didnt even ask about the bag. Now they wouldnt let me take a model in there and shoot though... next time I just wont ask.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

They check everything that goes into the yard. Toolbox is inspected, any bags you carry in. They also ID(no one under 16 is allowed in). Simply put, my junkyard is run by a bunch of jerks.

I ended up having to argue with them over the price. Their price list is set and they want $130 for a v6 engine. The list says $85 for "engine block with heads". They wanted to charge me the price of a full engine for an engine with no intake, accessories or oil pan. It was a manager even arguing with me over it.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Holy crap. I wouldnt go to a yard like that. Atleast you got your engine now

noahTHEpurdy

iTrader: (1)

Not sure if this was your plan or not, but I'd still have that 191k bottom end rebuilt instead of just plopping it in. It may look like it's in good condition, but it's still been through the ringamaround, and I'd hate to see you have to rebuild it shortly after doing the swap.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Any suggestions on where to get the rebuild kit? Northern Auto wants ~$500.

The plan was to drop this in without much done to it, just to get my Camaro moving again. I'm hoping it's in decent condition to make a trek over the mountains(my Firebird's transmission can't handle the mountains). After I'm hoping to get another few thousand miles out of the engine before the rebuild.

Crux

Just over $100 for an engine? O_O
I may have to reconsider waiting to start looking for an engine...

Someone I was talking to at my local Advance Auto told me the engine in my car would have to come out through the bottom? Is there any truth in that?

Hmm..and..when I get the engine it'll likely be sitting for a little while as I get the parts to rebuild it and whatnot..
are there any precautions I should take?
It's pretty humid down here.

Thanks and sorry for invading the thread.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Nope... you can pull it out the top very easily. Only time I've ever seen needing to drop an engine through the bottom is in the case of some FWD vehicles.

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

You can drop it from the bottom but the top is pretty easy with these engine bays. I think that it is pretty common for the 4th gen guys to take the motor from the bottom since the engines are half way under the dash although some have gotten them through the top.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

And promptly realized they would have rathered shot their foot off.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

If you're on a serious budget, just get yourself some new rod and main bearings down at the local auto parts store. Make sure to take your old ones out first so that you can see if they are standard or undersize. You can go a long, long way with thicker bearings back in there while you wait to do a full rebuild.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

"Serious budget" is an understatement. I've got under $300 to get the car back on the road.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You don't need to go all out on a rebuild, although the old saying "build it cheap, build it twice" applies here. You can get a full gasket set from felpro for $100; cam, main and rod bearings from clevite for $92 and a new oil pump for $30. That should cover the basics.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

I have a lot of parts from my rebuilt 2.8 that are good: oil pump, cam. So I just need the gaskets and bearings. Can I reuse the timing set from my 2.8? It's got ~1500 miles on it.

What size injectors does the 3.4 use? Anyone got a set for sale?

superbee

glad you chose the unwrecked one. Being in a collision is never good on an engine. You got to worry about the line bore ect being thrown off. Can even lock an engine up solid. One time i went to get a 5.7 out of a fsc that had been hit between the bed and cab from the side, and that engine was locked up tighter than a 10 yo.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Your timing set will be fine. 3.4's use 17lb/hr injectors.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

17lb. Should have grabbed them with the motor. I think I have 3sets I need to get rid of(need to look, got tons of injectors). Dunno condition.

avro206

I should have read to the end of the post

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

The ones in there were extremely gunked up with crap. Could you look and see if they're in usable condition? What do you want for a set?

Will a 3.4 run on the 2.8's injectors(15lb?) at all?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

A 3.4 will start on 2.8 injectors, but run very very hot. Highly not advised.


I have:
(7) ford 19lb FOTE-05A/280-150-943
(13) GM 17lb
(12) GM 15lb

All for trade or sale.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

I need six of your 17lb injectors then. We'll take this to PM, so the thread isn't cluttered.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Tore down the 3.4 tonight, gots me some questions.



What in the world is that? My 2.8 block doesn't have it. WHat do I do about it?



More of a 2.8 question... the oil housing on the left is the 3.4, on the right is the 2.8. The brass adapter is for my mechanical oil pressure gauge, but I have no idea what the second one does. So on the 3.4, should I remove the electrical component and put the mechanical adapter there?



Should it really be saying 3.1L on the crank?



That's the crank sensor, I assume?



Knock sensor, I assume? What do I do about this?

And now for some pictures showing the condition. Odometer read 191k.



Pistons look to be in very good shape, as do the cylinder walls.



Bearings, however, don't look very good to me.



That's the bottom of the cylinder hole. All of them look about the same.



Underside if the pistons are about the same.

enswrob

ow.. looks like u had a nice coolant leak in to the oil...

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

1. Cam position sensor- no use unless you want to run SFI
2. Use the 2.8 filter adapter
3. Yes
4. Can't see image, I assume it's a knock sensor
5. Crank sensor- no use unless you go to DIS

Can't see a few of the other pic's, but looks o.k. from what I can see. Crosshatching still visible on cyl wall, some rust but you can expect that from any junkyard engine. Can't tell how bearings look, doesn't matter because they need to be replaced anyway. Should clean up fine.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Fixed the broken links.

What do I do about the cam position sensor hole? Also, I can't seem to get the cam out; it moves forward a bit, but then grabs on something inside that I can't see. No amount of man-handling was able to get it out.

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

That sensor behind the balancer is also a crank sensor (I believe). As for the cam sensor...cut the wires and leave the old sensor in there. Its basicaly a plug for you.
Also the cam should slide right out...I assume you took out the lifers. Did you take out the oil pump drive (where the dizzy goes)?

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

That's it. I removed the oil pump drive pole, but nothing else in that region. Where is it located and how do I remove it? I assume I remove the distributor freeze plug?

So what do I do about the sensor on the bottom middle of the block(knock sensor?)? Leave it there as well? Is it possible to use it for any purpose without heavy modification of the ECM?

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Few more pictures and questions. These are from my rebuilt 2.8. It had standard size main bearings on a crank ground 10 on the mains, and thus, suffered from very low oil pressure. My questions are what would cause what you're about to see in these pictures.



I have no idea what the stuff on the pistons is, but it's burned onto them pretty bad.



Notice the scarring on the bores. It's like that on every single one. Running your finger around the bore, you can feel small cracks all the way around it. The corrosion on the water jackets doesn't make me feel great, either.



I think the light colored valves are intake and the dark are the exhaust? Why such a color difference? Is it normal? The head on the right is the passenger side head. You'll notice on the far right that there's some liquid of some sort.

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

There is the "plug" where the dizzy gets bolted down. Looks like this...

And there is a rod that sticks in the bottom of that which spins the oil pump. But that should have fallen out when you took off the oil pump. But this is what that looks like...


Those are the only things I can think of that would catch the cam.

As for the crank sensor in the side of the block, that is used for DIS. As mentioned before.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Alright, I definitely did not remove the drive, so that's the problem. I'll see if I can pull it out later. Thanks.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

The black crud is carbon buildup, soak them in a solvent and it should come off pretty easily. What do you mean by 'cracks' on the cylider wall? The white valves are the exhaust, black is the intake. Color difference is because of the heat difference the valves experience. Exhaust sees hot spent gasses heating the valve up, intake sees cool air.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

"cracks" meaning you can feel slight hairlines running vertically on the cylinder walls.

Why is there such large carbon on the pistons? Of the previous three 60* engines I've torn down, I've never seen them look like this. I'm just curious if I did something wrong during assembly.