Abdar5

I have a 1991 V6 RS camaro and I am on a low budget, I need some upgrades that are inexpensive and help out a little. Basicly what is the best bang for my buck, I'm not really wanting 400hp or anything just some small things that will add a little power, and better sound. I have looked through a lot of other threads in the exhaust section but every thing is about the V8 models.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Welcome to the forum. Check out the stickies. Specifically, this one: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/3...irst-faqs.html

karrfirebird87

iTrader: (1)

hey welcome ,, an i have a k&n airfilter like new for a v6 , you do have the circuler canister type right ?

nutcase-mark

you can put a hypertech 160 degree thermostat it only 11 dollars for the v6 and gives you 10 hp over stock, you can also put a chip in it that can give you a big gain in hp.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

A 180* thermostat would be better, and you'd need to reprogram the fan on/off points to make it run at a lower temp anyway. It's programmed to run at about 210* stock.

Pacesetter headers are a great start. Better filter, a good tuneup, ford F1ZE injectors and a hotter ign. coil would go a long way. Of course the best way to coax a few extra horses out of your motor would be an ecm swap -> https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...take-look.html

zs&tas

hi mate, not hijacking but 1stly is it wise to get your motor to run that cool?? 180 sounds right, whats standard then? didnt even think about this mod, makes sense though as long as your not silly........

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

I wish a thermostat gave me 10 hp as well as the computer. You won't gain anything from either of those items. Get a 180* stat, that's about the coolest that you want to go and the computer only really removes the speed limiter and changes some small things.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

First, make sure your car is in good tuneup. alignment, tire inflation, shocks, blets, hoses, bla bla bla. If that isnt right, modding the car will only make it worse.

That said:
depending on where you live, you may not even want to change the t-stat temp. Up north, Id leave 195 in. If you live in south, 185.

Find the thread I made atleast 2 years ago that shows how to install the 85-89 style dual snorkle intake and do that. Will have to get them parts from a junkyard.

Do the Throttle body bypass with a brass fitting rather then looping the lines.(search on it).

Stay away from any over the counter chip. Waist of money.


After that, what is your "budget"? Some say buget and its 50 bux. Others say budget and its 2grand.

nutcase-mark

160 is just the lowest you can get, I didn't mean to get a 160 but to look into it and it will give you 10 hp by itself

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

got anything to back up that statement? cause id probably crap my pants if it really did. thats like saying roller tip rockers add 15hp. not trying to be a d!(k. just need to see proof of it like dyno sheets of before and after or something.

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

Yeah Im going to have to pull out the pull out the BS flag on that one unless you can proove it

Just dont want the spreding of bad info getting around

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I'll 3rd the BS flag on 10hp from a t-stat change.

backgammon7

theres always the V6 FAQ page

nutcase-mark

some were my bodie has his dyno sheet but that is it, he got 8.93 hp over stock

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

need two sheets for proof (before and after), otherwise this info should be officially be disregarded, sorry man.

backgammon7

it may be that the engine was cooler and maintained that horsepower it would hve lost at the higher temperatures

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Find a duel snorkle 2.8 air filter and replace the round one you have now. K&N filters are also a real good idea.

Clean the TB with carb cleaner, AFTER THAT INSTALL NEW Spark plugs

A Tank of Super Unleaded and a bottle of intake system cleaner

Check tire pressure

New Rotor / Cap / Wires



Those are about the Cheapest things you can do to get the car running better. Make sure the engine is as clean as possible internally and open the intake and exhast stream up as much as possible.

Other "bang for your buck" upgrades are more expensive, Mandrel bent exhaust, Rear gears, Headers, Cam, ect.......... You can also remove weight like the SMOG system ( Driver Manifold, pump. hoses ), AC system, Spare tire equipment, for example. ( IIRC 100 lbs = .1 sec ?)

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

That may be so but you also loose mileage by running cooler.

zs&tas

whos bothered about millage when your after power??? its just one of those things. weight removal is a gooden, i had a ford sierra 2.9 4x4 std 8.2 to 60. knocked easily half second off that by gutting the interior. over and above that speed air resistance is your biggest problem, it made a really fun motor. the other one was when my tyres needed changing i went down 1 profile size - lowers the whole car a little for cornering and adds to the acceleration again - at all speeds.
have fun ;-)

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

He has a '91 so he already has gfx and all the little aero tricks gm employed to bring the drag down on these cars. These cars were pretty slippery from the factory with gfx, they only had a .34 c/d. I scrapped whatever I saw as unneccecary on my car and I'm sitting at about 3000 lbs. Check my vb garage for a list of what I took out.

nutcase-mark

It could be that it ran cooler, I don't know those details

micktroup

Hi Newbie!
I also have a 1991 V6 RS, so I will give you a list of some of the things I did...
Good tuneup, wheel alignment etc first.

Get the dual snorkle intake from a junk yard(the one that goes OVER the radiator). Take a Dremel and cut the bottom off the lower section so the filters can breath. Install K&N filters. To connect to the intake, I picked up a length of PVC from Lowes and had a shop machine the lip to fit. Total cost: about $65.

Bypass the coolant flow through the intake. $5 for a couple of hose clamps and a piece of hose. Seat-of-the-pants dyno says increased response...

Catback Dynomax exhaust from Summit: $170 or so...

Wonderbar from Topdown Solutions(sponsor of this site)- OH, MY GOD, BEST HANDLING IMPROVEMENT SO FAR!!! $60!!!

Synthetic oil if it is high mileage: mine is 190,000+ and I noticed it is quieter and seems to run cooler. I also seem to use less oil for some reason...

My car now: breathes better; SOUNDS better; handles better and doesn't rattle as much. My 17 year old daughter's friends think her 'dad's car is cool! Pisses off the ex-wife!

Next up: SUBFRAME CONNECTORS, upgraded brakes, new wheels/tires, 2 inch lowered spindles and Eibach rear springs(new stock springs up front since the spindles will give me a 2 inch drop in the front) for a 1.5 inch rear drop, 3.4 V6 drop in, black interior and NEW PAINT! THEN MAYBE THE LSX...

NAASBC355

you loose mileage hotrodding cars... A t-stat alone makes quite a difference sometimes. I think it's more the air temp under the hood than anything else. When we run them on the flywheel dyno we always use the lowest temp thermostat availible so I can't tell you if intake temp has anything to do with it but we have compared them on the chasis dyno, and that mess works. If you could drop the air temp under the hood of your car 30 degrees I can see it getting 9hp. Even more with a nastier build. With the motors we race with I try to keep the coolent temp down around 160-170. Thats where big fans and thick aluminum radiators come in. Whats a t-stat cost $2 whats the harm in trying it for yourself?

~Couch

nixon5

best thing to do right now is a nce intake and then seafoam then oil change with royal purple then dump in engine restore into the new oil. then mabe a catback if you want but i dont think it will make that much of an improvement unless you got the headers to go along with it.

ohiotemplar

Welcome! Here's what I did, and it didn't cost me much. Which is good because I didn't have alot of money.

1st - get your baseline. These cars rolled off the assembly line with 140 HP. I'm talking weak civic range. So first thing you do is make sure you are getting at least that. Plugs: I bought 12 dollar apeice iridium plugs. Big mistake. My engine ran like crap. Spend the 2 dollars apeice for the AC Delco spark plugs. They work best. Actually, 90% of the guys on here will tell you to go with AC Delco whenever possible. They are the best parts for our cars. If you don't have alot of money and you want it running tip top right this minute, go to Advance Auto or Autozone and get the cheapest Plug wires, distributor cap and rotor button they have. Then save up for a nice set of aftermarket ignition parts later. When you install the plugs and wires, make sure you use alot of di-electric grease on everything. Boots, plugs, dist points, on the ignition modual. This will insulate from moisture and prevent arching. You also want to use some of that grey threadlock stuff on your plug threads. You can get a little puch of it for a dollar at the checkout. Next you want a clean filter and a good oil change with synthetic oil. Never use a fram oil filter, they use a cardboard by-pass valve that can cause engine vibration. Once again, AC Delco.

2nd - now you should have it close to it's baseline power with this very simple tune-up. I did mine in about 2 hours and I'm a total novice. Next you want to clean out your intake/vacuum system. Simply buy a pint of this wonderful stuff in a white can called seafoam (from autozone). Pour it into a shallow pan and start your engine. Pull out your PCV and sip the seafoam into your engine slowly, so that the engine doesn't die. It will smoke alot. This is normal. Just before the seafoam is all gone, drown the PCV valve in it to kill the engine. Wait 15 minutes. Start the engine and let it idle until it stops smoking. You have just de-carboned your engine.

3rd - now you are ready to start modifying it. I found my snorkel on ebay by searching for "camaro snorkel" - I won the auction for thirty bucks. After you get it breathing in better, it's time to start saving for those 2.8 pacesetter headers, which is what I'm currently doing.

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

Not necessarily. Adding better exhaust a intake will make the motor more efficient so better gas mileage. Really it isn't until you go to the internals where the mileage can be affected. Gears of course will hurt gas mileage.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

micktroup- if you get subframe connectors ->weld them in place<- don't get the bolt-on garbage.

I still say stick with a 180* t-stat and about 190* running temp. Your engine will reach operating temp quicker, your oil clearances will be tighter (which means less parasitic drag and more power) and higher oil temps mean lower viscosity (again less drag). Heat soak in the intake manifold won't be as bad as with the stock running temp and still high enough to help fuel atomization. Lower coolant temps doesn't always mean more power, it depends on the engine.

NAASBC355

it's all relative then to me exhaust and intake isn't hotrodding it's fixing the factories mistakes. If you take the intake system off, unbolt the exhaust from the manifold and take the hood off the car gets even more gas mileage, and even more power sure, but are you driving a hotrod?

~Couch

P.S. and the above is true only if a machine is driving the car. Humans have the tendancy to get on it more when their car sounds good

NAASBC355

tighter oil clearances are a bad thing and cause more drag and more parasitic losses. When I build motor that I know is going to have some heat on it or just get raced all the time i build it LOOSE LOOSE I mean REAL LOOSE. For example a ton of nitrous or a lot of boost I'll run .0065" piston skirt clearance 1 at low speeds there is hardly any friction at all for 2 at high speeds the piston will get so hot from hp that it will expand and take up most of that .0065" clearance. I run loose bearing clearances as well that way there is more oil on the crank at all times and again...less friction. Those clearances I keep secret. Hot oil period is a bad thing. If you live in a hot area you can vaporlock the fuel by it being too hot in a cold area the only drawback is that the car will act richer which is good for chamber temps and high speed nonsense especially with today's lean fuel ratio standards. Lower coolent temps almost always means more power I have never dyno tested a motor that got less power with a lower temp thermostat nor one that didn't show a distinct difference. I have never chasis dyno tested a car that didn't get gains from a colder air charge and lower coolent temps. The fan draws air into the engine compartment right across the radiator, the cooler the radiator, the cooler the air charge, the thicker the cylinder charge, the more power easy physics It doesn't matter what kind of cold air this and snorkle that you have the heat still transfers ever seen guys at the drags duct taping cold packs to there intake systems, and runnig cool cans? By the way oil must remain below 308 degrees. The only fear in running a colder temp is that the computer wont get into or stay in closed loop which has to happen or you run fixed open loop settings all the time and thats not good for anything. If you run a 160 and the computer drops into closed loop and stays there then your good.

~Couch

P.S. If you'll notice all aftermarket racing cylinder heads and intake manifolds block off the dreaded exhaust crossover...that alone is worth 15-20hp what does that tell you?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You can't compare race-only engines to street driven engines. High boost/rpm engines need looser clearances to compensate for expansion under prolonged high heat. I've never seen an engine benefit from looser clearances than it's designed for. More oil between the piston/wall raises inertia load as there's more oil to be moved on every stroke.

Street driven engines use tighter clearances because they run at lower operating temps and lower loads. Tighter clearances means quicker oil return and more consistent oil pressure. The only time tighter clearances are going to raise drag is if the oil layer's thin enough for boundary layer shearing, and by that point you've got damaged parts.

Lowering the operating temp significantly means looser clearances than it was designed for and lower oil temps. Lower oil temps help cool parts, but raises viscosity and lowers protection. Like all things there's a range where oil performs best, lower isn't always better.

The crossover helps raise manifold temps to operating temp quicker, increases manifold temps to promote fuel evaporation and reduce puddling, promotes better fuel atomization and charge retention. Exhaust crossovers are good for fuel economy- but not so good for horsepower. There's a reason the OEM's use it.

87v6baby

hey bro, well it depends on how much of a budgit you have to work with. i have the 2.8 v6 and to get some good power for cheap i recommend a new cam (go to summitracing.com and check out the edelbrok performer plus cam) and also like everyone said go with some K & N filter and headers. that would deff make a big improvement in power. let me know how things go and if you have any questions let me know.

-mike

ckyfreak2010

i have an automatic 92 v6 3.1 l camaro...i just pulled it out of my drive way it started fine...as i got out of the driveway it got really shaky like it would stall....then a few seconds later it did stall..i tried to start it but it would turn over...i tried a few more times it still didnt work...i came back a few minutes later and it still didnt work.. i have 3/4 left in my gas tank ...any ideas what could wrong

backgammon7

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backgammon7

do you have to ajust the computer with that cam, and what is a good prom

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You don't have to retune the ecm, but you'll never get all the benefits of it without retuning. You can get all the equipment to datalogg and burn your own chips for about $120.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

I'll 4th it, I can also provide proof that hypertech chips are junk.

It's been a few years but i ran a comparison between the stock $A1 code and the Hypertech Thermomaster chip.. there were 11 changes and none of them were worth a crap. Few small changes in the spark advance table, fan turn on temps and some very small adjustments to the VE Adder table.

Just for referance i've got between 500 and 1000 changes to the stock code.

to the OP, search around for posts by firstfirebird.. If you want respectable power a hybrid is the only way to do it N/A..