daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

alright been talking about this for a while, well its finally gotten its start

Stage 1
weight reduction and installation of megasquirt 1 v2.2, onto N/A 2.8
Tune ms to run n/a 2.8

Stage 2
more weight reduction
install single turbo onto 2.8 and retune ms for 16 psi
and have some fun(going to the track on the 26th)

Stage 3 (starting on the 27th)
massive wieght reduction including carbon fiber hatch deck,possible carbon fiber door pannels/fiberglass panels
pull 2.8 and install worked 3.1 with single turbo setup. adjust tune in ms accordingly
break in new motor @ 10 psi

Stage 4
remove old under the k-member single turbo system for the twin turbo system
forward facing tt headers
twin t3/t4 46 trims
true dual 3" open downpipes dumped before rear axle
retune megasquirt for tt system @ 10 psi and get some baseline dyno/track times

Stage 5 (all hell breaks lose stage)

slowly work motor and tune to 21psi+
make various adjustments to suspension,drive line weight reduction etc

===========
somewhere in the above there will be a 10pt cage moly cage install and possibly a ford 9inch install

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

stage 1 is nearly complete
removed various things form the engine compartment and prolly droped about 100 pounds off the nose of the car tongiht.with more being removed tommorow night.
the megasquirt is mounted and the harness is now inplace,connections still need to be made to the injectors and colant temp sensor.once that is dont the megasquirt will be operational.

ill try to post up some pics tongiht of what i did tonight with the help of rob (street lethal)

he took some pics with his cell phone but apperntly some of them are to dark so im still waiting for him to upload them to photobucket so i can try to brighten them in photoshop to post

Dale

iTrader: (12)

What are your eta goals at each stage, and HP goal at stages where motor changes are happening?

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

This sounds like an awesome project. New record FTW.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Pictures came out way too dark. Best bet will be to take some replacements during the day....

Just in case people didn't know, both of our car's don't like each other, at all. Had them parked next to each other while we worked on Dave's car last night, and we both could have sworn we heard some growling coming from both of our car's. Like two chained pitbulls being released in front of one another, our projects will be going at it, very very soon....

... you won't wanna miss this fella's!

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Guess I REALLY got to get cracking, lol. Just scored a 3.4, headers will be built soon. I am staying single for now.

Dave you do realize you are cutting the flow to each turbo in half, I'm curios to see how they spool with such large turbines (large for 1 bank, I mean).

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

yeah i know were cutting it in half but
i can actuall;y rev my motor over 3200 rpms in gear while on the brakes,couple that with a 2step/antilag system and it will leave the line under plenty of boost.

option number 2 is the addition of a nitrous system,which i had already planed on using.
nitrous lines are even already installed in the car

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

If you could find a more restrictive turbine to mate those compressors to, hmmm.....

Blue1989RS

Dude, your craaazy!

Have you thought of using FWD exhaust manifolds, but put them on backward? Last I looked, the seem to be almost right for a front dump turbo setup. There might be some potential.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

dude t3 .63 is tiny i will have no problems spooling them

anyways rob was able to save only one out of like 7-8 pics from what we did last night
so heres a pick of the megasquirt mounted up, i didnt try to hide it cause i wanted easy access for pluging in my tunning cable.and i also wanted to be able to see the staus ligfhts on the side of the case as well


ill have to try to get new pics but the harness for the ms runs right up with the factory harness,when im done u wont even know the megasquirt harness is tied into the factory harness.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

You are talking about the same turbo you had, right? Could a t25 turbine go with a t4 compressor? I'm curious to see how it goes, if it works good I'll have to grab another one.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

a t25 turbine(s) would choke the hel out of the motor.
u are forgeting something
split flow between turbines,but also split flow between compressors as well

if i would have went with one large single i would have gone with a 1.0x ex housing,this isnt meant for street driving this is meant for all out power.
yeah it will be a lil lazy on the street,but it will make killer power on top.

then again with the proper cam/tc, and ignition map it will spool just fine

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

btw i gave up on my ms install tongiht.
i had a spare harness from one of my 3.1 i had cut all the pigtails off off,well after soldering most of the connections, i moved onto the injector harness.
and relized all the wires were pretty cor0oded under the insulation.
so tom i get to get new pigtails and start all over again.

on another note id like to point out something i found out today.
i had full taken apart the injector harness,and what i found simply amazed me.

were the connector from the main harness goes into the loom for the injector harness there are 4 wires, 2 power feeds and 2 grounds from the ecm.
now these are spliced onto the injector pigtails. ok there spliced not a big deal,(wrong).Gm used solderless crimp conectors to connect the injector plugs together 3 per bank.no type of protection from moisture other then some what looked to be black elec/duct type tape.when i removed the tape the connections were very coroded and green.its a wonder how the injectors were working with the type of corrosion on the conector.atleast gm could have protected a connection like that a lil better.


and gm wonders why they are in trouble and no longer #1

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

oih btw i dont think any of u guys saw this
this is my plans for the front bumper for better airflow threw the intercooler

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I wish my bird had all that room for air

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

Dale stage 1 is only to get the megasquirt dialed on a base tune instead of jumping right into a force induction tune.
also the 2.8 in the car is trashed so i dont care if i mess up the tune even though im trying my hardest not to, motor only has 5-10 psi oil pres @ idle and 30 psi @ 6,000 rpms


stage 2 is pretty much to get a good base tune for the turbo so i do not destroy me new engine during engine break in due to running lean or a bad timing map.
at this point ill be taking it down to the track running prolly 7psi just to see the diff over my last outing only diff will be car back to a normal wieght i.e no stereo system or added wieght,and it will be actually tuned. knocking the extra 800 pounds out of the car alone should put the car right around 14.0 or better @ 7psi on the 2.8. the car did dyno 227rwhp @ 7psi with the 2.8 running the stock ecm. so should see 13.5

stage 3

is basically a base tune/breakin of the new motor, ill be expecting around 270-290 ish rwhp @ 10psi

stage 4
is were its gonna get intersting
at low boost levels the twin turbos will make less Hp Per psi due to being outside there efficiancy range.10 psi with the twin will prolly be 20 ish hp less then the single turbo @ 10 psi,though i cant be to sure as the twins will run cooler air temps and also make more power in the upper rpm ranges,so right now its all just estimates on what the tt motor/setup will do at low boost

stage 5
this is were i really expect the motor to shine
around 15-18 psi is were the turbos go into max efficiancy so hp numbers shold have a considerable jump over the 10psi numbers.im looking to make around 550-600 at high boost levels on race gas
by this stage the car will not really be a street car anymore,atleast not something u would want to drive everyday,by this point im hoping to have the car down in the 2,6xx range as far as wieght

Bad-Newz

Sorry to hijack the thread but by any chance are the 2.8/3.1 pacesetter headers compatible with doing a turbo install...?

Xophertony

you would have to do a "remote mount" system. if you wanted to do a front dump exhaust you would need some major re-working of the headers. would probably be more cost effective to just make your own at that point.

Blue1989RS

2600lbs? Thats kind of ambitious dont you think? I'm at 2930 without a cage and i have no idea where 300lbs would come from. I'm not saying its not doable, but you're going to have to remove the dash, replace all the glass with lexan, and maybe gut the doors. You'd have to run a full cage too. I know a guy with a CACC prepared transam (www.reentryracing.com) that weights 3200 with a cage, full gutted, and LT1.

Would be interesting if you weighted all of the turbo stuff. Just cause I'm curious as to how much weight your putting into the car. And what are you doing for a bottom end? I don't think the crank will handle all that, not to mention the tranny. Are you going to keep it auto and have it stuffed with V8 internals?

KBcobra

If u dont mind dave, wat r the exact specs on ur engine? i probably didn't read the topic really good, r u running those turbos sequential or parallel?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

well megasquirt is 97% wired alls thats left is the power/ground and the signal wire from the wideband 02

should be firing her up tom night after i get out of work


pic is from when i was removing the factory harness,ill get better pics up soon

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

well i got the ms wired up fully and the car ran for a few mins last night.
but after reflashing the ecm with the standard ms1 code ive been having problems getting the tunning software to connect to the ecu.
hopefully tonight will prove to have better luck

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

woot the megasquirt is fully installed,and now it is up and running.
10 mins worth of adjustments and its idling like its still on the factory computer

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

well after rob stoped by last night i got it tuned a lil bit more, have some off idle stumble still but i think its due to a noisy tach signal going to the ms unit. the tach signal is jumping to 4,500 rpms when the motor is only @ 2000 rpms.
though it runs buetifully at wot

but anyways today ill be reinstalling my fmic and cold side piping/ with the turbo hotside plumbing and oil/feedlines being reinstalled tommorow

if all goes well and i can get the thing tuned i will be making some passes this comming wensday.

the car will be the same setup as last time except for 2 things, the car wont be a total pig and wiegh in at 3950#'s and will have the megasquirt for tunning. other then that it will be run with the same turbosetup and motor as lasttime

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Going out on a limb here, but I'm calling high 13's on 14-lbs of boost.

... until it's dialed in, at least.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

i dont think i will get boost up that high on wensday,ive goten the car to drive around pretty good, but ive got this horrible off idle stumble that i can tune out.it only happenes when i slightly crack the throttle.car bogs then off it goes.
ive tried increasing and decreasing the accel enrichment but niether is making it any better

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I have aftermarket spark plug wires, the only problem though, is their angled terminals and boots (will obviously help the MS from being interrupted). You'd have to swap ends with the stock plug wires, as well as the stock terminals, but at least the wires would be much better.....

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

yeah better plug wires may help if thats were the tach signal noise is comming from.but im starting to think thats not the problem, the more i refine the ve tables to get rid of the lean missifires the less the tach is jumping around.
i was also getting false positives from my o2 sensor,i was pulling out accel enrichment since it was saying it was going dead rich, but it was actually going dead lean. now that ive got the part throttle section of the ve table closer its reading good.im still gonna swap out the single wire o2 and wire the heated o2 back up.driving the car around the shop here i really cant get the o2 to proper temps so readinhgs have been slightly eratic

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

MS will accept signal from a WB, why aren't you using IT?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

well it does not appear i will be able to run with the megasquirt come wensday, ive been trying to tune this thing all day and the tach signal is messed up so tunning is virtually impossable, i can only tune wot/and idle otherwise the tach signal goes all screwy on me.

there isnt enough time for a ms rewire to control ign and fuel.
i did wire the megasuirt in in such a way that i can revert back to the stock ecm in about 10 mins.if i decide to install the turbo this weekend and finish it intime i will run it back on the stock ecm @ 7psi

Toehead

Did you post on MSEFI?


Seriously sounds like a noise issue. There must be something to do that can fix it.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

yeah its noise and seems to be a common problem when triggering the ms the way i have it but i found a cheap 50 cent solution on msefi

a simple capaciter soldered into the tach pickup signal circut should take care of the noise/spikes in my tach signal.


just need to get to the local radioshack and pick up the capacitor and solder it into the tach circut

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Hey, if it worked for Dr. Emmit Brown & Marty McFly's DeLorean, I don't see why it won't work for the ole '89 Camaro....

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

roflmao, after more readin it turns out the version 3 boards have this capacitor installed on them when they ship

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

This is why I've been stalling with the order, need to determine which one best suits my needs. How late is Radio Shack open tonight.....?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

i can goto the one in the eastbrunswick mall,mall is open till 9 or 10 on the weekends im pretty sure its 10

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

oh yeah btw stage 1 was completed yesterday/last night.
ive been working for the past 4 hours on the car and the turbosystem is 90% reinstalled back on the car,and should be 100% within an hour or so.that leaves me all day tom to install my drive shaft loop and tune the ecm for some boost.
wensday ill be getting rid of some more unneeded weight/and massaging the wheel wells to fit the slicks.ill be getting the car trailered to the track around 5-6 pm for some test and tune. videos will be posted shortly after. as well as pics of said progress to this point.
well pics only if i remeber to pick up a disposable camera lmao

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Let's let the member's decide what's what. Would you guys rather see Dave's boosted 2.8 try to keep up with my N/A (for now) "BTA" lmao, or would you rather see it take on a lightly modded LS1....

(forgive the pic, still had my phone case on)

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

i say stock turboed 2.8@ 7psi vs stock 3.1, cause if i have to run the ls1 ur gonna force me to turn the boost way back up,and im really iffy about doing that without a wideband

i told u my turbo 2.8 vs ur stock 3.1 and ill give u a 2 sec head start

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You told me lmao....?

We're doing some more work on my "BTA" project, and the 5-speed might just find it's way on it very soon after all. If it's not dismantled by this afternoon, I have no problem beating <cough> running you tomorrow night with it....

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

rofl remeber that 3.1 only has what 10-20 more hp then the 2.8 without the turbo for the love of god dont install that t5 in the bta, thats a grenade waiting to go off,specially once the turbos make there way onto the motor

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

well its 9:20 pm and im calling it a night,i did get to drive the car around a bit
on the todo list for tom before i head out to the track.
#1 install drive shaft loop
#2 install slicks
#3 dbl check all oil lines for the turbo
#4 remove the rest of the back seats,the psare tire/jack and tools from the car
#5 dbl check all wiring,turbosystem components
#6 wash and wax the car
#7 goto the racetrack and beat the snot out of it(most of all have fun doing it)


im gonna call this as a low 13 sec passes @7 psi, depending on how much wieght ive knocked out of the car, which i can tell u is alot

Toehead

How did you tune it so far?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

very carefully, naw all kinding aside, i tuned the lower parts of the v e maps by hand while driving the car around, then went back over it with auto tune.
then i set all my 101+ kpa tables way rich since i dont have a wide band right now. what i did was just slowly lean the tables until my afr qauge would light up the next to last rich light on the face.
when i checked my narow band gauge against my wideband the next to last light was like 11.5-12.0 afr

just to be sure im gonna fillup with 114 race gas and make 1-2 easy passes first. prolly a burnout/halftrack run,look over the data logs,make adjustments and then make a 3/4 throttle pass do the same.and then just go for it.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

sounds fast, what you spotting me out then?

glad to see the combo is progressing, I'll probably have questions when my TT combo work starts this fall, although one turbo "shipped" out on the 12th and the guy has no receipt or tracking number and ebay is screwing me around.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Last night went as expected. Only so much you can do with 19-lb injectors, non-adjustable regulator, and a narrow band O2. Car lit up the burn out box pretty damn good, but under a heavy load though (especially with the slicks), the intake kept blowing off (lmmfao), and Dave was obviously forced to let go of it....

Was finally able to get the damn thing to stay on by way of "zip" ties (connecting a couple of them together) LOL, but the track was done for the night, so we fooled around in the pits a little bit. Engine sounds fu%^$$& GREAT. Still got a lot of minutes left on my cam, gonna use them possibly for tonight (a little street racing over in Toms River), and definitely tomorrow night back over @ e-Town. Will have them up soon for you guys.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Did you have hose clamps on it?! How could zip ties hold better?
----------
Did you see this good idea?...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...ic-piping.html

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The zip ties were mainly used for the rubber plug behind the throttle body, it kept shooting off under heavy load. The intake blew off during the run (you can hear it in the video, well I could, and I'm sure everyone will), but while we were at it, we secured everything with a bunch of zip ties, on top of what was already securing them, just to get a pass in....

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Did you get another "disposable" digi recorder? I'd like to see some vids .

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Am I detecting some sarcasm here.....?

Yeah, it's a disposable digital recorder. Was supposed to run myself last night, so I left my video camera home, then realizing that there was nobody there to put Dave's car through tech inspection (I had to). A digital camera was then purchased, and it served it's purpose well.....

Definitely not going to blow whatever minutes I have left this time, I still have half left, and will be shooting some video tonight, as well as tomorrow night. Will have them up on Saturday though....