CamaroManBlack

Hey...looking for others' experience and/or expert opinions...My car is a 1984 Camaro, 2.8 V6 2bbl, 700R4 trans, 146,000 miles. I took the car around the block tonight, after letting it sit for a few weeks (it hasn't seen much driving this year)....right after I got it home, I kicked the gas a couple times--it wasn't revving up normally---and then I heard it knock. I listened to it for a few seconds and then shut it right off. I know you can't really be sure without tearing the motor down, but do you think that the crank and rods are going to be wrecked? How much should expect to have machined for repairs?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

it would be cheaper to buy a motor from a junkyard to drop in the car,but if u want to rebuild the one u have prolly a couple hunderd bucks.junkyard motors can be picked up for like 100-250$'s

gottfuel

Try taking a long rod or pipe, and use it like a Sethascope, in most cases this procedure is used in pro shops,. this can also be good for the automatic trans,.like the other day i heard a knock seem to be coming from the back of the motor,. using this procedure i was able to determin it was coming from my converter not the block thank heavens,.

Xophertony

to further explain what got fuel is talking about:
get a long metal object, place the end on the block/heads/wherever, and move it to different locations. in this way you can feel the vibrations of the engine and feel the noises coming from it. this will allow you to pinpoint where your "knock" is coming from.

i have used this too much success. found out the weird vibration on my friends 4.3L blazer was a waterpump bearing this way. also found an exhaust leak this way once, i could feel where the tick was, but by ear it was imposable to locate. for realy small noise it helps to place the other end of your "stethoscope" to your ear or the side of your skull.

CamaroManBlack

It's a knock, all right... ....so now I guess it's a matter of doing something about the motor. I'm not crazy about going this route, but does anyone here know much about using an MPFI 2.8 block and heads in place of the carb'd one? I had heard once before that it will work, using the FI engine and my carb'd intake and the old distributor. I have the electric fuel pump to replace the mechanical one. Is the swap that straight-forward?

xplane

the block is identical to the Carbed version just the intake and FI is different. I wonder if you could use a 3.4 block? GM makes a 3.4 engine for the S-10 thats a direct replacement for the 2.8 they had and there engines are 99% the same as ours again its just intake and fuel delivery system differences.

CamaroManBlack

YESSSS, the 3.4---I forgot all about that! Do you think I'll notice much of a difference in power between my old 2.8, and a 3.4, considering that I'll still be using the E2SE 2bbl carb?

xplane

I dunno its still extra displacement so it may run outof breath a little sooner but it shouldnt hurt anything. may have to up the fuel a bit or something cause i know you have to use the bigger 3.4 injectors on the MPFI system but mabe a carb is different. kinda like swaping a 350 under the 305 TPI system it will just run out of breath a few rpms sooner.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

im quessing that the carb will be way to small for the 3.4.prolyl have to swap over to fi.the carb may work on the 3.1 though

gottfuel

just start by identifing where your knocking is coming from first,..,,.,.because unless your going for an upgrade such as 3.4,. then i would just firgure out where the problem is,.,.could turn out to be somthing simple,.,.,.,.perhaps you just need to ajust a rocker or a lifter,.,.,.,.,..,,.im relly curious now., get it figured out and let us know

CamaroManBlack

It is definitely a rod knock in the bottom end of the motor...complete with the metallic specks in the engine oil---along with a strong odor of gasoline. Evidently, the float in the carburetor sank and allowed the fuel to leak down into the crankcase. The knock isn't audible at lower RPM's until the engine warms up, so I think it may still be easily repairable. However, I think I am going to use a fuel injected 2.8 that I have here on the property, and just swap the intake and the equipment. I will also have to rebuild the carb and get a new float. This would be cheaper that doing all the machine work and rebuilding the original motor, and I am told that the MPFI motors have larger valves, which would mean better breathing. Is it likely that I would, in fact, notice better performance with the larger valves while running my carb?

If I do rebuild the original motor, are there premium grade rod bearings that I can buy for an '82-'84 2.8?? Advance Auto didn't list anything other than standard...

CamaroManBlack

do the water pumps between the carb'd and FI motors rotate the same direction? My old motor has V-belts and I just wanted to make sure that the serpentine setup in the other motor doesn't change the rotation direction on the water pump...

RBob

iTrader: (1)

A serpentine setup does rotate the water pump in the reverse rotation. They are different between v-belt and serpentine belt.

RBob.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

if you go w/ a 3.4 setup and stay carbed, in order to make it breathe better for ya, check out the edelbrock intake for it, and definetly gonna need a bigger carb or youll lean right out all the time.

CamaroManBlack

Okay....since it does rotate reverse of what the original pump did, could I rectify this by using my original timing cover and water pump? (since the blocks, themselves, are supposed to be identical)

I've ruled the 3.4 out...it won't be worth it unless I do like drdave88 said, and get the edelbrock intake and a bigger carb. Unfortunately, my budget is pretty short for this project, around other expenses, and it would be quite a while until I had the cash to make the 3.4 swap worthwhile. So I'm just going to go with the 2.8, if I don't decide to just rebuild the original 2.8's bottom end.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

May be able to just swap the pump. Once off check the cruve of the timing cover where the impellor goes. If the same then can keep the current timing cover.

RBob.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

youre supposed to use your original timing cover anyway. the 3.4 cover can be used, but does not have any timing marks for the balancer. you reuse all the external parts that came off your engine. try to get an 85 or newer. the heads have bigger valves and larger journals on the crank. the heads are considered "hi-po" heads, but thats compared to the ones on your current engine.

CamaroManBlack

Hey...got stalled for a while but I'm back on the project again. I have the "new" engine already---it's a 2.8 out of an 88 Camaro RS. Oil in the pan looks good, not the least bit black and no metallic flakes floating in it. I have most of the externals off of the new engine, except for the water pump and timing cover.

Next question....the cam. I had heard before about the MPFI heads being better, as drdave88 said, but I have never heard anything about the cams between the carb'd and FI'd motors. Does the MPFI motor have a better cam, or is it about the same as the other one? Do you guys think I'll notice the difference, running the factory 2-bbl? I've never dabbled in cams before, so I have no idea what kind of lift I should be looking for. I want good low-end torque, power range between...I dunno...1000 and 5000....regular driving ranges. What do you guys recommend?

Oh yeah...the distributor...will the one off my '84 motor fit down into the '88 motor all right? Does that long shaft that goes down passed the cam go to the oil pump in the pan? I'm still new to a lot of this internal stuff, sorry...

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

to my knowledge, the cams are the same. if you want good low and torque, and im no pro at cams, but id say stick w/ that one. i think any of the others out there will drop your low end torque.
the dist from your 84 will go to the 88, and yes that long shaft goes into the oil pump. from personal experience, get that shaft out of the dist (its gonna be a pain, but it will come out) put it in the pump, and then put the dist in that. but whatever works best for you.

are you planning on regasketing the 88 2.8? it would be a good idea to at least replace the cam plate on the back of the engine, the rear main seal, and the oil pan gasket. those are all gaskets you can get at w/o pulling the trans or engine. the cam plate gasket you can only get through a dealership.

CamaroManBlack

Hey guys...need help....hooking the tranny up to the new engine ('88 replacubg the '84 block), and there's about .200" of a gap between the torque converter mounting ears and the flexplate. Is this normal on a V6 or is something really wrong?

I used the flexplate off the '84 engine, not the '88. The transmission is still the '84, as well as the converter.

Supermann

I do know that by 88 the flexplates were neutrally balanced one for all engines, where as the one off of your 84 was balanced for that 84 engine, so mixing the two would be pretty bad. Get one off of a newer engine cause your new engine is internally balanced and needs a neutrally balanced flexplate, which I can say without a doubt can come off of any 88 or newer, I just don't know about the 87 year (thats my whole problem)

CamaroManBlack

I have a typical harmonic balancer on the '88 motor, behind the crank pulley....is there balancing other than that on the motor?


*****nevermind....stupid question now that I look at what I wrote....

Supermann

did you happen to get a flexplate with the '88 engine?

CamaroManBlack

yeah the '88 came with one, but I had shied from using it because it seemed too far from the torque converter.

What about this idea... using an extra flexplate collar/washer (that ring that the bolts go through before going through the flexplate into the crank) as a spacer behind the flexplate. It's thick enough to push the flexplate a few thousandths closer to the tranny, but not so much that the flexplate can't rest on its "seat" at the end of the crank. Think that will work? It's about .050" thick, by estimate....

By the way, Supermann, you were right about the weighted flexplates....there's a weight tack welded on the '84 flexplate....no weights welded on the '88 flexplate...I'm using the '88 one now...


Drdave....that cam cover gasket is available in the Felpro gasket set (kit set, I believe)....I didn't try looking separately but I had one included with my felpro set from Advance Auto....just thought I'd pass that info along, since you mentioned it being a dealer item....it's a cork gasket in my felpro set....

CamaroManBlack

Just thought I'd pass along a quick update on the project....the "new" 2.8 is in the car and does start and run. I have the valve lash set; now I just have to finish putting all the top stuff back on (vacuum lines, valve covers, all that stuff) and set the ignition timing. I'll update again after the road test.

Oh, and I installed a tach---just to help remind me where the redline is this time.