daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

what members of the board here have made turbo kits for our cars,i could use a lil information

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

do a search for a username doward and techsmurf there the only ones i kno of with a turbo.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

hmm techsmurf is away ill pm doward though

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

The_Raven also is running a 60* v6 w/ a turbo. look for his info, although his is a frankenstein version w/ the 3x00 upper end.

Leo_padakin

well i thought i found his uild up, but wrong engine

Doward

Hey, sorry, haven't read the IM - What info ya need?

The_Raven

It's nice to be mentioned.

I'm not sure how relevant my info will be, since I'm using a different chassis, and different top end.

But there are some basics that could be applied to any engine.

My recomendation is don't start with a Garret T3 from a Turbo coupe, you'll quickly find it's too small. I'll be playing with other turbos soon enough though.

List the specific info you want, and we'll help you out.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

i just need some info on whats a decent turbo size for the 2.8 , are u guys using bov,s and if so are they to atmosphere ones or back to inlet side of turbo,what do u guys use for fuel and timing mangment,and if possible a few pics of the ducting so i can get some ideas on how to plumb everything, oh yeah almost forgot what are u guys using for fuel pumps

85berlinetta2.8

wil one from an 89 turbo caravan work? im thinking of buying those bbs manifolds

69charger383

Im gonna be using a T3/T4 off a Grand National. for the BOV Im gonna use one from a secong gen Eclipse. If you can get one from a first gen. Theyre better. I removed me A/C and Im gonna run the plumbing for the intercooler through the spaces already given. Only plan for the fuel system on mine so far is bigger injectors... Anything else you wanna know?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

well with the stock ecm can u use a to atmosphere bov, or does it have to route back into the inlet side of the turbo since its a maf system.And when relocating the air temp sensor shoudl it go on the inlet or discharge side of the turbo .I want a turbo that will spool up fast, im not looking to make anything more then 5-7 psi on this motor(any suggestions on turbos).From what i can gather a small turbo spools faster but isnt good on the top end as a larger turbo, and i dont need anything that is capable of putting out more then 7psi cause the motor deff wont be able to handle it, the only thing i plan on doing to this motor to put a turbo on it, is droping the compression back down,switching to the v8 rods,getting the chip reburnt,and possibly going to a smaller cam

btw i was gonna get a used turbo from ebay,bad/good idea ?
since it would be alot cheaper then buying a new one

also would it be better to run the turbo off one manifold or when i do the headers pipe both sides to the turbo?

69charger383

first off why do you want a smaller cam?!?!?! BOV shouldnt have anything to do with the ECM.. Id put the air temp sensor on piping going to your intake. If you want it to spool fast youuuuur best bet would prolly be to get two smaller turbos and twin turbo it. T3's should be good for that. I bought my turbo off ebay, just make sure everything is good on it before youuu buy. Check the fins and such. If you want I got a TE04H sitting right next to me that I wouldnt mind giving to you to help you out with your prject. But it would have to be to twin turbo it seeing as how it would explode from spinning too fast. Anythin else???

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

i was told that since the car is mass air that if the bov is to atmosphere, it will load up with fuel,and thats why mass air cars use a bov that vents back to the inlet side of the turbo.(shurgs i dont know thats why im asking)second if i were to do a twin turboi take it the inlet side of both turbos would have to be hooked togetherwith a y behind the maf?


whats the specs on that TE04H what engine was it used on etc?

whoudl this be the same as the one u have ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mitsu...spagenameZWDVW

69charger383

You prolly would have to do that Y-thing before the MAF. It was on a Mitsu 2.2 I think and yes that is the same one I have.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

what do ya want for it,then i can get the one ooff ebay and have a set to get started

69charger383

Around 40 + shipping would be good. Ill take pics n **** if you want. No shaft play. It was rebuilt before I took it out of the car.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

yeah take some pics and find out what shipping to 08872 would be

was wondering baout all the vacum stuff on the engine like pcv the lines to the charcol canister does that stuff have to be modified when u put a turbo on one of these motors

AM91Camaro_RS

twin turbos would be hard on a maf car because it would be difficult to monitor the air going into two turbos. you cannot run it as a "blow thru" setup on the stock maf...it will react funny to being pressurized. if you run a single turbo, always run it off of both banks of the motor...not just one. Yes, you'll need to vent the BOV back into the intake side of the turbo, between the maf and the turbo. you could probably get away with a smaller turbo if you want to run that low boost and it would probably be able to spool up around 2k rpms, at the latest!

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

am91 i wa sunde rthe impression that the maf would go before the turbo on the inlet side not the discharge side this way there is never any boost running threw the maf.and after doing some looking around i dont think i could do single turbo with that model turbo,look sliek th ething would spin to fast and gernade

69charger383

Find a bigger turbo.. If you wanna spend alot of money get a T3/T4 and buy a ball-bearing center section. Thatll get you the fast spooling action but youll still have top end if you need it.

AM91Camaro_RS

dave, the maf does go before the turbo, that's what i was getting at in my other post. the reason i said you couldn't run twin turbos easily is because you'd have to run two mafs which would be very hard if not impossible to do OR run one filter, pipe, maf then split into two pipes to go to the inlet side of the two turbos.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

charger ima buy that turbo from u i want to do the twin turbo setup, i even think/well im pretty sure i found a way to pipe everything, wont know till i get 2 turbos in my hands

85berlinetta2.8

hey for feeding the turbo with oil, you tap the oilpan and use the feed from the oil presure sender right? is the oilpan thick enough to tap alone or do you weld a nut to it?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

the oilpan isnt thick enough to tap so yeah ud have to weld a fitting onto the pan and as for were to pick up oil from u could tee were the oil pres sending unit is or theres a few places on the block u can drill/tap

Gumby

Don't they have special fitting that can grab the thin oil pan metal?

Just the other week they did that on hotrod TV. They just drilled the hole with it on the car and screwed in the line.

I wouldn't take their work as gold but they do seem to only show what is safe to do. Liability stuff n all.

Though some other shows like on discovery have no problem showing people using tools wit hthe safety guards removed, welding with no eye protection and grinding lead with out a dust mask on.

Doward

Twins are difficult to do, simply because you have 2x the complexity.

ALL twin turbo motors end up going single turbo, for the BIG power gains. So why start twin?

Teo4h is a tiny f'n turbo. I ran a TD05H, with a 16g compressor wheel my first time turbo'in the 2.8, and it was GROSSLY undersized.

Currently running a T61. A bit big, actually.

I'd recommend a T3 .63a/r turbine, with a t04e 50 trim cold side

If you want to run twins, then use twin .48a/r T3 turbos, off of the Dodge turbo 2.2/2.5s, and used on Volvos, and TurboCoupe (Fords)

Nocturnall

Would the turbo from a 84 4cyl Ford Thunderbird be even work trying to make work in the firebird with a 3.4l? Random but my father in law has one rotting into the ground in his yard...

85berlinetta2.8

dodge used from 1984 to 1993 TEO4H Mitsubishi turbos, garret t3 and tbo3, and VNT25's. i plan on snagging whichever i can find and using it on my 2.8

Doward

Stock, it'd be really too small for effective power... BUT - if it's a true Garrett, it is CHEAP and GREAT for upgrading to a T3/T4 hybrid!

Gumby

only thing I know is they use two turbos for different spool rates.


I would assume a small turbo to get off the line, while a nice big one gets up to speed. Probably heck on the small turbo but I can kinda see why. Though once you go turbo sooner or later you will just drop some major coin on one nice turbo.

Gumby

I just love this pic but here is an example of that. Two different types of forced induction for the different spool rates.


http://viragotech.com/turbo%20supercharger/

Spazz698

this thread has me interested, esp since a friend of mine is upgrading his turbo out of his 05 evo (kinda offered to buy it off him as a joke but then it came out to be if I wanted it I could have it and the BOV once he got his new one in) but Ive always been under the assumption that if my turboing the camaro idea came to life Id be doing a bit of motor work as well (like pistons, gaskets, valves and whatnot, Im considering the age of the car, the fact I dont know how hard the car was driven beforehand, etc. into this factor) so it wouldnt end up with a rod hanging out of the bottom of the block.

85berlinetta2.8

my cars got 94,000 miles on it, im not doing a thing to freshen it.

69charger383

Ive got 175,xxx... compression is good and there arent any knocks or anything... Not like itll matter if I blow it up or not. Got another one in the basement.. Lol

Spazz698

according to my odo I have 182xxx (assuming its rolled over) Not sure if the block is original to the car since it was pretty much put together so it'd run.

Doward

Evo stock = 16g. That would be a good START to add some power (16g + 2.8 stock = 222rwhp, 291rwtq )


Gumby, there are 2 general types of twin turbo setup -

The most common, is parallel. Twin turbos, each run off of one bank of cylinders, working in parallel.

Sequential is what Gumby's thinking of...

1 small turbo starts to spool quickly, and as it is running out of steam, a valve system will shut off exhaust flow to the small turbo, and start the 2nd one spooling. It's extremely complex to get running right, and, imho, not worth the work.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

well i did some seroius planning today for the twin turbo layout, and since im not willing to sacrifice my working ac twin turbos just wont fit so its off to erbay i go to find a cheap larger turbo

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/N-R-G...38203895QQrdZ1
????????????????????????????????????????????
any good?

Naft

yeah, good. it may not have the exact characteristics your looking for though, but pretty good i think.

Doward

57trim hybrid? It'd be a very nice starting point!

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

hey doward if u wouldnt mind anyway i could see some pics of ur setup. mainly ur turbo manifold

Doward

No turbo manifold here, running on the stock manifolds

Gumby

So how much shuold daves89rs expect to pay for that turbo?
afer last min bidding?

Just trying to gauge price.

turbos are so tempting but everytime I do the math, + labor its a daunting project.

Which makes $150-170 supercharger off a 3.8 or GM V6 so darn tempting. There is isn't crap to hooking one up except for running a belt to it. Of course it isn't gonna bolt on to the engine, doesn't have to. Just mount it on the side where the AC goes and make some cover plates to run the air through it. All simple cheap plumbing, no bov n stuff, only get get 5-7 psi, which is all the stock maf can handle well. Might be able to cram 10 into it on race days with a pulley change.

Just all that darn exhaust piping and work. SC could be hook up in a hr or two with a $3 belt and lowes plumbing parts, little bracket fab work.

Though I just dropped a chuck of change on a portable garage.

The_Raven

If I was going to go turbo on a MAF car, like the 2.8 third gen, swapping to a 3.1 ECM/PROM would be one of the first things I'd do to get rid of the restriction, and any issues with running a MAF on a TT car.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

doward so u just ran right off the stock ex manifold,i take it u just connected ur own tubing to the ex manifold and put a flange on it, how did u suport the wieght of the turbo (brackets?) or is the ex tubing supoorting all the wieght, and if so what did u use for ex tubing that was strong enough and heat resistant enough?


edit--------------------------------------------
and why cant u run over 7psi of boost with stock ecm is it --- just cause of the maf sensor alone or can the stock computer just not add enough fuel, and if thats the case a simple chip should fix this right

and what do u use as far as fp reg a boost controled one or just a standard adj fp reg

Doward

I HIGHLY recommend going to a speed density setup first, and then upgrading to the '749 (15psi of boost control, stock)

The MAF maxes out like... INSTANTLY. Actually, it's not so much the MAF, it's more the LV8 spikes to 255 at anything over 5-6psi.


Although, a rising rate fuel pressure regulator will help out BIG time

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

ill stick with the maf for now as i dont plan on running more then 5-7 psi anyway 7psi is deff tops if i want the car to go faster ive got a 500hp 358ci small block i can drop in the car
what are the diff's in the v6/v8 maf sensors if i want to go to speed density what exactly do i need just the right ecm/harness? and what else

Naft

v6/v8 mafs are completely different, ours are hot wire and theirs are frequency film(or possibly the other way around, hmm).

speed density you need to adapt your ecm connector to the 730 connector, and add map sensor and maybe some other things, im not 100% sure, ive just started looking into it a short while ago.

Doward

Other way around

Naft

had a feeling.