ScrapMaker

yeah, unfortunately the cheapest route for getting power is selling the v6 car totally and finding a 350tpi car and rebuilding it...

maybe if I came across some money I'd toss in that turbo kit, just to be different.

theratdude64

Yup, I thought my 2.8 was decent speed till I drove tons of other cars. Driven a Buncha 6 speed LT1s, LS1s, TT V12 Benz Roadster, and other badass cars... now I dont like my car as much :P but I love that its a manual. I have smoked a 305 Formula 5 speed Firebird though I'm going to put a turbo setup on my car. I can't decide if I wanna lift my truck first or do that first

Dead83

I don't want to start a fight with the V6 crowd but in my opinion, GM should have never even offered F-bodies with anything other than V8s (or the LG4 V8 for that matter, which is what I have unfortunately).* Sure F-bodies are considered pony cars and compete with Mustangs and Mustangs come in both mild and hot versions but when you give a car flip down headlamps, a sloped hood and a fire-breathing chicken logo, you don't want to be sharing motors with Buick Centuries.

* If, on the other hand, you're sharing motors with a Turbo Regal, you can ignore my anti V6 rant. The 20th anniversary models are awesome.

theratdude64

Well there is the 4 Cyl 2.5 too. The Mustang came with a 2.3 but no V6. So I guess its good we at least have a medium engine for people that didnt want a stupid 4 cylinder but still couldnt afford a V8. The V6 really isnt all that bad. I love the gas mileage I get from mine When it works that is... :'(

AM91Camaro_RS

Well, if we want to get into what motors WE think GM should have never put into camaros or firebirds... I can't understand why they ever messed with 305s. But, like you said, we don't want to get into all of that.

Dead83

There is really only one advantage to having a (non H.O/ non TPI) 305 car- my K-member comes with SBC motor mounts!

In stock form, my T/A is actually less fun to drive than my 1992 single cam Mazda Protege/ 5 speed. On the highway, my Mazda is vibration free so I can drive all day at 80 mph- if I'm not worried about tickets. In my T/A, anyting over 65 was a white knuckle experience. On top of that, my T/A probably only makes about 50 more horsepower so its straight line performance does not justify it's lack of a real back seat or trunk. I simply think GM should make cars that talk the talk also walk the walk. At least with the Fox body Mustangs, nobody would ever mistake a Mustang LX for a sports car (and they're about 300 lbs lighter than F-bodies too). An ignorant girl once told me my T/A looked like a Lambo. I can't back that up with a 140 horse boat anchor of a motor.

I didn't mean to offend anyone with my bitching about GM- I'm just venting my own frustration at having bought a cool looking but nonetheless junk heap of a car when I was too young to know any better. Most of you are probably running V6s that are stronger than my LG4 was anyway. So peace, my brothers, and I will stop haunting the V6 threads.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Well, GM did put the LS1 motors in the 4th gen. And, couldn't sell enough of them to keep it on the market. Makes one wonder about how hot an engine is required in order to sell enough cars. . . Or, how not as hot an engine is required to sell enough cars. . .

RBob.

ScrapMaker

I agree with Dead83... I think the F-Body should have only come with 5.7's...

to me, having a v6 is posing... I am pretending to be faster than I am...

In all reality, the v6 gets nearly the same gas mileage as the v8, and they are tons more fun to drive...

the weight of the vehicle is the most signifcant factor in fuel mileage...

of course, if you had a 320hp 2002 Trans AM WS6 (my dream car,) you'd probably get MUCH less gas mileage than the v6, becuase you'd be racing all the time

/obvious.

Dizturbed One

^theres no way a v8 gets the mileage that my 3.1 does

and i beat stock auto 305's sometimes (quite a bit actually)... most of them aren't running that well once they get into high mileage I noticed and having the manual helps alot, you can launch so much better than someone with an auto.

my car is all original, all stock.

140K (almost) on the odometer, and it still runs hella nice

the v6's are good motors

lets face it, our cars are pretty heavy for a lil 6 to be pulling around too

i'm sure the lower gearing in the trans and rear end help alot though

but no, there's no way you're beating that mustang buddy... not only are the fox body's quite a bit lighter, but the v8 to v6 match is quite a gap to jump. he'd have to be running pretty badly.

ScrapMaker

according to EPA, the 5.7 gets 25mph, and the 3.1 gets 27... not much difference there... and I only get 27-30mpg on my 30k motor... I have to drive with the wind, and slower than a grandma to get 30mpg... but I can do it every once-in-a-while....

there's no big reason the v8 can't get the same mileage really, it just depends on the gearing and things like that... the extra 200lbs isn't a big difference... my mileage doesn't change with just me, or two extra passengers, even in my v6.

plus... you can't possibly be talking about the H.O. 5.0l firebirds... they put out 230hp with the optional exhaust system. 215 or so with the stock exhaust.

5.7 puts out 235-240hp

ladiesmanwc

I've driven GM V6's long enough to know.....you don't race with them stock. You just don't do it. You won't win....against...well....anything. Especially not a V8.

There's nothing wrong with having a V6. I have one too. But.....don't race it. A V6 Firebird is a driver and a looker, not a racer. Want to race....mod the engine something fierce...or better yet, get a V8.

ScrapMaker

hell... lot's of cars on the road today have 250hp... almost twice as much as our v6s... and they weigh much less... I just don't try and race at all... unless it's an old civic or something.

I know I'm faster than my friend's stock 95 civic dx... not saying much.

ladiesmanwc

I agree that the F-Body should have only come with the 5.7's......although, I think every American sports car should only have a V8.....hell....I think American cars should just be V8 in general. Get back to the old days, when cars didn't suck.

BUT, there's nothing wrong the V6, and you're not a poser for having one. The poser part can only come with attitude. Yeah, if you're out saying how you're dinky 2.8 is going to roast a 5.0 Mustang, you're poser.......and just not very smart. Really, if you try to race your stock 2.8 against anything short of a 83 Volvo ****box you're a poser.

Having a V6 F-Body as a driver isn't bad. Yes, I think we'd all rather have the V8, but we happen to have the V6. It is possible to drive a car for the sake of driving the car, not for racing it. Being a car guy.....it pains me to really detest most car people, because they seem to be in the mindset of "I must be racing 24/7". You guys "live life a 1/4 mile at a time" and all that. There *ARE* people who drive cars for something other than hitting 9's in the 1/4.

ScrapMaker

you so crazy!

who doesn't live their lives on the edge of their seats? that's why I bought a car with 100rwhp!

do you think it would be posing if you had a very loud exhaust system, and a large ram air/cowl-induction hood? I do. Unless you have the engine to back up the looks/sound, then I consider that posing.

I've been posing ever since I got my flowmaster muffler---hell, I loved the way it sounded, but everyone and their dog wanted to race me---and I wouldn't, because I knew I'd lose. People still thought I was fast and just didn't want to race... the essence of posing.

Gumby

Ill ditto that SM. Since my single side pipe cherrybomb was installed I get more looks and challanges then ever. Though I did somewhat cure the bumper drater problems with my 3d brake light tach mod.
They can see I'm only turing 1500-2500 and back off.

ScrapMaker

care to elaborate? 3-D brakelight tachometer modification?

do you mean you put in a bright-*** light behind your tachometer, so other drivers see you at low rpms, and get intimidated?

wellington

what will a stock 3800 run with a 5 speed and about 200 pounds less weight?assuming a perfect launch and ideal conditions.

ladiesmanwc

Not at all. It's part of the style of the car. These cars are SUPPOSED to have large cowl hoods and loud exhausts.....regardless of engines.

Posing is still all in the attitude. If you freely admit "my car is slow as *****", it's not posing. If you do all of that to try to fool people that your fast, yes, it's posing. But, again, it is possible to do that kind of stuff because.....you like it. Because it looks good, because it sounds good.

Quote:

I've been posing ever since I got my flowmaster muffler---hell, I loved the way it sounded, but everyone and their dog wanted to race me---and I wouldn't, because I knew I'd lose. People still thought I was fast and just didn't want to race... the essence of posing.

That's not posing at all! You were doing the exact opposite of posing! I mean, I guess it depends HOW you play it off, but that's.....exactly what to do to not pose.

IIRC, slightly off topic, it's the same thing with "****". "****" is more an attitude than anything else. If you have an import car, it's the style of the car to do all the gay **** they do to their cars. "****" are you're random 17 year old kid who watched Fast and the Furious too many times and thinks his stock civic is going to run 9's because he put Altezza's on it.

So, basically, you can whatever you want to your car and not be a poser. It's the motivations behind what you do, and the attitude you have about it. If you think you're sneaky and put a big cowl hood on your V6 to make people think you're fast, yes, you're a poser (and a massive tool). If you put a cowl hood on your V6 because it looks really good on the car, then that's fine.

I've had my car for....a week. People think it's fast as ***** and I didn't even mod it. But I don't pretend otherwise, I tell them outrgiht, "No, it's a V6. It's slow.", and there's no harm, no foul.

ScrapMaker

I put the flowmaster on the car, because it sounds wicked... that's it... plus the old muffler was wasted.

even other people with aggressive v8's still thought I had a v8... I even convinced some people my car was capable of under 11 seconds... just be letting them hear my car idle.

but I was just messing with them....

hell... my car came posing, from the DEALER! it has dual "outlet" exhaust... heh, what's the friggin' point?

don't v8s come from the factory with true dual-catback exhuast?

Gumby

No I put a digital tach under the rear wing where the 3rd brake light would go. I have had the idea for some time. But it took a while to get it done.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=214063

Gumby

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=296432

ScrapMaker

I was going to do something like this... but after I built my entire tail lights out of a wall of LEDs... I was going to use this micro-controller I have, and have lots of "visualizations."

I could have it WRITE out the rpms on the tail lights.

that would kick ***.

Gumby

Yea to make it 100% complete id like it to also display the gear I am in. Would make puting 2 & 2 together real easy. 1500 on the tach and 5th gear light up = I'm crusin.

ScrapMaker

I don't necessarily know why you want to do this... but I think you could make it look pretty cool, if you do it right...

otherwise it would look tacky as hell... you should post a few more pics of it working.

Epro

A v6 can't beat a V8.

I got a feeling there is a lot of BS in this thread...

ladiesmanwc

A v6 CAN beat a V8. A four banger can beat a V8. It's......probably not doing it stock.......but, they CAN.

I'm pretty sure a 1,200hp V6 Supra will beat a 305 Camaro any day.....

A third-gen V6, I don't think, would beat a third-gen V8......but, I don't know that for sure. If the 305 is as bad as i've been hearing, I dunno.

AM91Camaro_RS

i've beat many V8s. i also know doward has beat/is quite capable of beating many V8s.

Firebat

iTrader: (7)

V6's - Underrated in firebirds/camaros, Overrated in imports

ScrapMaker

I fixed that for you

V6sucker

No, they are underrated in the Fbod's... I raced many a 305 TBI and carb, and creamed most of them in my 3.1 5 speed.
Were the V8's beat to **** and crappy slush boxes?, I would bet so. People tend not to beat up on a V6 for that reason, they think they have no chance and figure why even... but every kid I have seen in a 305 carb/TBI boat anchor just beats the crap out of it when it is a weak *** motor.

And scrap, the f bod in 82-92 NEVER HAD TRUE DUAL EXHAUST.

And the import 4 banger beating a V8... try looking into shepard racing... they are in the 7's, yes 7's on a street legal 4 cylinder import. http://www.shepracing.com/
Click the link for the world record holder 4 cylinder import racer.

Do you think any V8 here would stand a chance? even if shep started in 3rd gear...

ScrapMaker

eh, the v6's have less than 100rwhp... weighing in at 3200+ lbs...

not much of a drag racer.

just sayin'.

dbtk2

My V6 4 door FWD Grand Prix will spank the **** out of my 305 T/A. It also pulls on stock LT1 f-bodies. It walks all over stock 5.0 Mustangs. If the V6 is built right it can beat lots of stuff. Build a V8 the same way the V6 is built and it will come right back and spank the V6. Its all in how its built. If I had to bet money, I would say that there are some stock 3.1 5 speed f-bodies on here that can AT LEAST keep up with my T/A...it might be a V8 but an LG4 305 with 3.42's is still a turd. On a good day it MIGHT run mid 16's...maybe.

Shawn

yupitsdadsbird

if the mustang is stock....easiest way to beat him is to swap in a bored 3.4 with a maxed cam, full cnc heads (in alum), 1.6 rockers, pacesetter headers, highflow cat, dynomax cat-back, truleo intake, the mustang t/b, cold air, comp chip, accel (or msd) FULL IGNITION, shift kit, 2400-2800 stall, aluminum driveshaft, 3.73-4.10 gears, posi or a spool. subframe connectors, rear control arms...............did I miss anything??????

Epro

Let me rephrase...

A stock V6 can not be a stock V8.

If 2.8s and 3.1s were beating 305s from the factory, (carb or not) they wouldn't of offered them as an "upgrade"

5 speed or no 5 speed, it could not make THAT big of a difference.

FirebirdNYC

a 3.4 litre fwd grand am is pretty freaking fast. but that is not the same engine as the 3.1 or 2.8. The only v8's ive beaten were sick 305 tpi's and a tbi and its always close head to head race. Now if it were a healthy 305 id get my *** raped Your comparing a newer v6 to an old v6. My brothers grand am has some *****. But its a 2000 3.4 not a 1990 3.1.

Doom Sayer

My 3.1 running on 5 cylinders beat a 4cyl S10

ScrapMaker

I can beat 4 cylinder rangers... but not by much..

I wish that the turbo kits for our cars were like $1000 dollars... then we could all buy them and have more hp than stock v8s!

FirebirdNYC

im not sure if i would get the turbo kit or just buy a healthy 5.7. I have driven my friends tpi and i honestly like the power behind my v6 . If only my v6 sounded as nice . But i wouldnt know which i would choose until i have at least 2, 3 g's in my hand

Doom Sayer

What stock v8s are you talking about?

ScrapMaker

I'm talking like the 1990 GTAs... the 5.7 rated at 235... 250+ if you get the SLP package. bhp

AM91Camaro_RS

you want to rephrase again? we need not get into the GNs, syclones, typhoons,... besides, what you're doing is known as trolling...its not allowed on this website.

i have seen some AWEFULLY slow, 305s, though.

ScrapMaker

we can all agree the GM 5.0 was a failure... hardly more hp than the v6, but much worse mpg... so don't lump those in with the real motors.

the 5.7 is what I consider a "V-8"

nothing less... plus you gotta have TPI, at least... if not SFI.

even though the BMW has a 4.4 v8... I still consider it too small, I'd toss it in with the v6's.

z28 NyC

You dont consider the 305 a realy v8 ? why the hell not, you can make v8's smaller than 350's haul ***, and iam not just saying this because I have a 305 and your comment made me feel bad about my engine

yupitsdadsbird

i know a guy with a 283 that'll walk most any larger v8

ScrapMaker

just from what I've heard, the GM 5.0 get's schooled by the Ford 5.0... I believe it's mainly the internals... like for instance, does the 5.0 have a roller cam?

No offense man, but the 5.0 only puts out 160-180, depending on your year.

V6sucker

yes, the TBI 305 is a roller engine.

And from the factory...
the TBI 305 was rated at 170 at any point.
The CARB 305 was rated at 190 at it's highest, but it was also the H.O. Motor. Otherwise they wre around 165-170 as well.

Ford 5.0 mustangs have almost always been MPI. But not a whole lot of people that bought F bods went 5.0 TPI, it just was not worth it when the 5.7 TPI was only a few hundred more, and up to 35 more HP up to 45 more Ft Lb's with alot more potential.
Ford only really offered 3 engine's in the stang. 4, 6 or 8.
Unlike the Fbod, where it had, a 4, 3 different 6's, and at least 6 different 8's in its history.

So you wonder why the mustang outsold the f bod, there ya go. GM gave way too many options and too many engines.

Scrap... you really need to do a little reasearch before posting stuff...

Epro

To whoever said I was trolling, like wtf?

I wouldn't say the 305 is junk. Like what SM said, TPI is a must...

Look at some of these figures...

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml

AM91Camaro_RS

yes, i said you were trolling. i said that because of your first post on this thread..."A v6 can't beat a V8.

I got a feeling there is a lot of BS in this thread..."

that is bashing. you don't come on the V6 board to make comments like that because that goes right along with trolling.

ScrapMaker

so let me rephrase it, you get 145-210bhp, depending on your year... with the 5.0

clearly no one would have ordered the 145hp 5.0... since that would be a waste.

yupitsdadsbird

well it's just like people who get there car all power, bigger motor, leather interior, convertable, yada-yada..............then leave stock steel wheels in 14 inch........