i'm 17 and looking for a good dailey/hotrod...but i need MPG so would a 6 cyl bo good or just get a 305?

 

The 305 TBI can get almost as good mileage as the v6. My brother had a 91 with a 305, and it got almost the mileage I get and had lots more power. I like my v6 though.

 

well, as far as mpg, v6 is not that much better than the 305, and you would be much better off getting a v8 if you want performance, cause a 6 cyl needs a lot of money and time to make it into something special (you would need a lot of both), and being in high school myself, I know how hard that is. The only benifit to the v6 is if you have to worry about insurance, cause it will save you a couple hundred a year over an IROC or Z28. That was my real reason for getting mine.

 

okay so i should get one with the 305??

 

youre in old Nirvana territory!!!! sorry, lol. ive been perfectly happy w/ my v6. but if you dont have much money and still want power, i guess youd have to go w/ a 305. its so much more impressive and gratifying when you spank a v8 w/ a v6, lol.

 

TBI's are crap...

 

I owned a carb'ed 305 V8 Camaro [faster the TBI] and its no where near as fun as my stick V6. Better MPG all around. 305 can get mileage if you drive like granny all the time. V6 handles better with less mods. I only have a few and it corners on rails.

You couldn't give me a V8. Unless it had like 500hp
as a v8 car is never fast enough. Its faster but never enough. Easier to be happy with the V6. Looks nice but will never do 12sec without MODS.

Also he don't need a 12sec car at 17.
Just trouble waiting to happen.
sensiable thinking pays off in the long run.
Oh lord I know

 

very true gumby, i remember 7 years ago, lol. i wouldnt give up my v6 either. although i did trade my 2.8 for a 3.4 in a hearbeat.

 

I suuppose that an LC2 car would be too much for a seventeen-year-old? (READ: TTA) Not to mention, too much coin, unless he's a very rich kid and really lucky...

 

Go with a nice 3.1L T5 equipped 90-92, in clean condition.

Work on it, learn it, and love it. You'll find more than enough aftermarket parts in teh coming months to a year anyway (Headers, intakes, TURBOS)

Besides - the V6 will always outhandle a comparably equipped V8 car

 

From my personal experience, i don't think you'll be unhappy w/ the v6. However, it really depends on how you come to the plate, they're not powerhouses by any means, but at the same time neither is a 305 TBI. Both of these cars in relative stock form are, well, slow. And that's the only way you can talk about it, once you get into speed cars, you're looking for tuned port injected v8's, they're quick, L98's being the better of the two (350s'). Dowards V6 Turbo setup should be very slick if you can get your hands on one, then gas milage per horsepower is going to be to boot on the v6, very little will compare to it. I pulled more than 30 mpg out of mine, but now it's not running, completely different story.

The only upside i really see to the 305 TBI car is the mod-a-bility from the masses. If you open up a summit or jegs, you've got parts galore for the small block chevy, can can make yourself some "go-fast-parts" While it's still not going to be a rocketship, it can be improved. And in a worst case scenario, a 350 block can be swapped in it's place ratehr simply, aka, it's the same thing.

For the six cylinders, you can swap a 3.4 in , gives you about 170 horsepower, which is the same that a 305 TBI has if i remember correctly, torque no comparison however. And your stock v6's hp is only 135-140 depending on 2.8 or 3.1 L engines, however, the several hundred poudns saved by not having a v8 in the front end, yield a very responsive and nimble car, along with decent acceleration via the 3.42 gears, which will nearly match that of a stock 305TBI because it's still slightly heavier and has less agressive gearing.

Your choice kid, best of luck. And by the way, no matter what 3rd gen you buy, you'll have to learn to be careful with it. I can remember the kids in highschool who wanted a camaro, and wrecked it the first week they had it. Then the guys who had f-bodies and kept driving them all the way through highschool w/o problems, rain, snow, or crap. There were v6 and v8 cars that ended up in the junk yard because of a tree or telephone pole that was around the wrong corner on the wrong raining night, these things can easily get away from you, if you're not paying attention .

 

I'm not sure what the 3rd gen market is like right now, but when I got my car (6 or 7 years ago) it was better value for my money to get the V6. I only had $3k to spend and any V8 3rd gen I could find was either completely trashed or quite old (82-83). I got the V6 for the money I had and it was in much better condition than any of the V8s I could afford.

 

my dad had a '81 camaro with the 231(?) buick motor is that the same V6 we are talking about?? if so then couldn't get the parts off of a regal type T?? i'm looking at getting a camaro here in about a month after my next pay check

 

An 81 would be a 2nd gen and the V6 is different. There never was 231 in a 3rd gen.

 

do some looking, the 231 is the 3.8L v6, it's found in second gen birds and maros in the later years (after they ditched the straight six), the engine that you'll be looking at in a 3rd gen is a 2.8 L or 3.1L v6. which is 173 - 191 ci of displacement, little smalelr, but in the lighter car you wouldn't notice, infact the six cylinder third gen is probably going to be seconds faster given the vehicles lighter weight, and the "non-smoggines" of the 80's powerplant (can't believe i'm saying that) in comparison to that of a mid to late 70's version. Plus, you'll be reaping the benefits of fuel injection. for Fuel Injected models, look 1985 to 1992...1982-1984 had 2bbl carbs, and slightly weaker lower ends (although i believe the 85 might have had the weaker lower end also) plus the heads are better on the FI cars. Same time, if i found a really nice, clean 82-84, there's enough chance i'd find some fuel injected heads with the larger valves, do that swap, then add the 4bbl car intake, set of headers, crazy non-computer cam...and go go go.

for a v6 atleast.

 

okay then how hard would it be to do the 231 swap?? i'd want a turno V6 i think it would be funner...and ya i know that the 3rd gen camaro/firebirds are from '82-'92 adn that my dads car was a 2nd gen

 

Now trust me here when i say i speak from a lot of experience, some a lot of these guys around here probably wont understand, i've owned a few thirdgens, 84 Z auto ttop, 86 Z 5 spd hardtop, 88 "sport coupe" 5.0tbi / auto car swapped to LT1 / T56, 89 RS 5 spd V6 hardtop, 92 Z hardtop G92 5 spd, and a 94 Z28 6 spd

Done a lot more swaps, engine installs than most around here could lay claim to when it comes to thirdgens.

If you want a camaro then start looking for a 90-92 6 cyl, get an auto car, if you want to go manual, swap it afterwards, its not too much work, especially if your dad will help, by swapping an auto car the shifter hole can be in a nice spot for both the weak T5 and the T56 which you'll likely end up upgrading to later, swapping a T5 car leaves extra headache for hackjob patching a huge shifter hole later. The V6 cars have the same wiring as a tpi car should you for some stupid reason want to just plug in a tpi motor it will just plug right in. The V6 car will be much cheaper on your insurance.

As far as a LC2 swap, they are expensive, the parts to do the swap right are expensive also, the only real benefit over some of the other easy swaps is fuel mileage of that motor, and if you want to say you go fast with only a few mods, however the cost will offset the mod bragging rights.

Do some reading in the engine swap boards on the LT1, and even LS1 if you must, though IMHO the LT1 is still running along as the best swap for the $ if you want efi and actually want to go fast.

 

That sounds like some good information.

 

ya i was thinking that after i get the car (V6 auto) then swap to a 400 cid motor. a stronger 700R4 (vette 3/4 clutch pack) and then just make it look as cool is it is fast

 

if that's the plan i'd ditch the v6 part of things, while it's not really going to be incredibly much more work, it will be some more to get the v8 in the v6 car vs. doign the same swap to a v8 car. If that was my plan, i'd be looking for a TBI 305 5-speed car, and just being done w/ it. When the time came, i'd nab the 400 sbc, and begin prepping for some transmission re-inforcements. Swap would just about as straight forward as they got, plus you wouldn't be scrounging parts. But that's just me. If i was planning a v6 to v6 swap, or building a v6 for high-revvin fun, then i'd go that way.

If i was saving some $$'s , i'd look at dowards turbo setup, or see how much info i could get from him on building my own unit. And if i was dead set on a 3.8L turbo from a grand national or a TTA, then that's just what i'd have to do. But you gotta be prepared to spend the $$ to get there, it's not really econimcal to some, by more than economical to otehrs, and if you planned on driving the car a lot (daily driver or close to it) then it probably would be economical, depending on how long you planned on keeping the car.

 

but wouldnt a V6 camaro have a lower inational cost? also the V8 swap would be later down the road...like when i get outta collage and get a real job not the one i got now

 

they're probably pretty close to being equal, however, insurance costs would keep the total cost of the v6 under that of the v8 car. a high-performance v8 is going to cost you some $$'s, especially if you're trying to find one in good condition. A low performance v8 (the one i'd go looking for if i was planning a swap) isn't going to be much more than a v6, and both will probalby be in fair condition, although, soem people think they have a hot-rod w/ the TBI car, and wreck them also, so condition kinda depends. But i'd expect the price to be close to each other. Also, a SBC swap for say a 400 engine, could be done cheaper than you think. Doing it the way you'll want to keep it for the rest of your life (which doesn't happen until a person just gets bored with the car) would cost you some more $$.

 

ya i'm not new to the car world i'm all my friends wrench cause well thats my job...but i'm leaning toward the V6 cause of the insurance...also if i wanted i'm shure i could find a recked V6 second gen camaro and pull the buick 231 and turbo that (same motor thats in the regal type T and the GN)

 

do some searching on these boards about turbo 3.8 swaps. It's been done before, takes some work, costs some dollars, and will cost even more $$'s if you go w/ the second gen route. While the engine is essentially the same, and early model grand nationals came with that engine, engine internals are different. I can't give prices on forged intenerals for a 3.8L buick, but it should be up at the higher end of things, not unfesable, but high. Cheapest bet would be to find a wrecked GN, or T-type and nab the motor from it. Then either do the cylinder head swap to fit it in the 3rd gen bay, or ditch ur AC unit, and go from there. nice thing on a L03 T-5 setup car is, now you're "re-enforcing your tranmission" instead of replacing it, and simply doing an an engine swap, retaining or ditching any of the fuel injection (TBI) stuff you have, and building from there. Plus parts on a SBC are much cheaper. Same time, if you saw the engine in my sig, i know a thing or two about parts that aren't cheap, and aren't easy to come by, sometimes it's worth it, sometimes its not. And all that depends to the swapper.

 

okay so turbo 231 is too much? darn okay well now i'm lost i want the V6 cause it's over all cheaper so what should i do to it to make it faster?

 

Best bet is to go with Doward's turbo kit (for the V6). He's promising +100rwhp at 6psi IIRC.

 

and how much is that?? i'm thinking of just a twin T3 turbo set up with 2 1g eclips inter coolers then do the proper motor mods what do you think of that?

 

I've loved every V6 Firebird that we have owned.

 

cool, cool i still got some time my pay check wasent as much as i though it would be

 

If you ever think you'll put a V8 in, it'd be best to start out with a V8 car.

 

I read your responses & let me offer this.
Why do you want a car?
Transportation?
Fine
Get one that runs, works right and doesn't require wrenching.
Why
EDUCATE YOURSELF FOR THE REAL WORLD AND MAKING MONEY
When ya making steady money & ya pass college, decide to find an older car as a second ride.
How one can wrench on a car, and educate yourself & afford living (food, housing, clothes, bills) these days is a very hard personal challenge.

Spend the time wisely & educate yourself. NOW.
Play with cars later on.

Beyond that UP NORTH, I'd really worry about rust on frame & body panels.
I think I do know of a LA, CA 3rd Gen F Body in very nice shape amybe still for sale. Aged engine, but very nice solid car.
Swapping engines?
I'd worry about emissions testing. Be informed of emission laws before ya pick up a swapping engine wrench.
I am never one to burst a bubble of joy.
But some ideas and younger age and younger age finances, just won't lift off the ground.
Yeah the late 2nd gen (80-81) F Bodys did come with Buick V6s.
Keep searching for the right solid working ride and leave the future bright for yourself!
Beside the girls look cute in passenger seat of ANY ride ya score!

 

Thats YOUR opinion.

 

hey my dad is paying for my college...and housing...and food...plus i'm an 11 grader so i still got 1 more year after this one. so that stuff i'm not paying for...i want a turbo V6 now that i'm thinking about it too so a V8 swap wont be going on over here in t-town

 

Have you Dad help ya score a great ride.
If the 89 is still available ya want a contact for it?
PS only one FBody came with a factory Turbo. That car is rare & expensive
Check WA State emissions before ya lift a wrench.
Good luck with car choice.
Better luck on the education.

 

Have you Dad help ya score a great ride.
If the 89 is still available ya want a contact for it?
PS only one FBody came with a factory Turbo. That car is rare & expensive
Check WA State emissions before ya lift a wrench.
Good luck with car choice.
Better luck on the education.

 

naw i want a older car because the wa limit in emissions is 25 years so thats 1980 now just two more years for a 1982 see i am thinking about emissions

 

Yeah, cause we all know its best just to dodge the stuff, making sure the environment gets as much polloution as possible is definetly the best route you can take.

 

I can wave a clean air flag as I plan on leaving SoCal for fresher air cause I now have a child.
The air out here sucks for his developing four year old lungs.
In end you are buying a problem car owned by previous others.
You'll be working on it alot.
And studying.
IF ya gonna do a project car, learn what to do and what you'll get into.

But buying a 1982 F Body with a V6 is like buying a grenade with a pin pulled but not the trigger for explosion.
If you have a big wallet, big hammer, enjoy the project.

 

hey ked i'm kinda in his boat.

I got my car though when i was still in hs, junior year (was free from my father since it was his before me) End result, after replacing one engine, then replacing one transmission, hoping i don't have to replace a second tranny too soon, and having a northstar sitting on a stand because i don't have the money to do a rebuild on it (gonna just go buy a second engine) and evne after i get the second engine, the ability to have the time to do the swap is unfeasable until i get out of school and have a second car. My roommate on the other hand is kind of in the same boat, but much better situation, in college like me, etc. And owns a 66' Ford Fairlane. Car's got a nicely built and highly cammed 351 Windsor block, lopes like crazy, and has compression out the wazzooo, and is the perfect example of performance versus reliability. Even though the car is essnetially, as simple as a car can get (no fuel injection, no computer ocmponents, just ole' american muslce) the thing still breaks roughly once every two weeks. He bought the car when he was in H.S. still, having it less than a year, the distributor gear was eaten by the camshaft, metal shards went through into the engine oil, all types of mess. Not to sure how long it'll be before he rebuilds the engine, he pulled most shards from the pan, but there's always ones that don't make it all the way through, and it's kinda like a time bomb (don't drive it in a place where you do't want to get stuck), and about a week after getting the car he lost the transmission. So, end result, he drove it for roughly 1 year, and has owned it for 3. That's the place of the average hot-rod owned by a college student.

 

Yep, sure is! But as for Fact, doing a V8 swap isn't "just put a V8 in". There's more to it than that; and it seems like our friend is on a budget here.

 

okay well the 2.8L would be nice but a bigger motor like a 4.2L(?) out of a S-10 would that work if so then how?

 

You spend the most money you can on a running car, complete, no problems.
Worst part about college these days may be storage space.
Where to store when not running?
A free car as a starting point is a good thing.
No atter what brand.
Buying a junker with a nonrunning engine to swap it to make it a running reliable vehicle and fast!,
who wants to take over?

I can tell ya when I was in college what I drove.....and the cars & Women....
You just wouldn't believe me!

In end, you'll do what ya want, as it's your future.
Me who been thru it NOT in college, but with kid & mortages and a business, let's say I got off pretty decent playing with old cars.
Sure ya can do it, but, at what price?
Even I have abondonned project cars cause thy were too far gone.
Why start there?
Spend your money on a great no project car, except to make it your own...
Try family members who may have a friend for a contact of car to be sold....
PS LOOK FOR RUST DAMAGE EVERYWHERE, including coil spring pockets...
And if ya want a decent Southern California 1989 F Bird V6/Auto, it may still be available....

 

Really theres more to it than just putting a v8 in ? Who'da thunk it....

 

If you want a V6 thirdgen, I'd suggest finding a nice looking 2.8/T5 '86-'89 Camaro, with a blown/dead motor, and swap a 3.4 and new clutch into it. It'll be the best you can start with - when you actually need the speed, go with the turbo kit!

 

Simmer down now.

With that said and done, I'd like to celebrate my 1000th post!

 

alright guys i'll think of what to get