tomj23

Folks,

I need a new muffler for my '89 bird--it's a 2.8v6 with the stock 2.5" dual outlet setup.

When I look at the rear exhaust, I see some needless complexity. Given that pressure comes in one side and must twist around to leave both sides of the the muffler, it can't be all too free-flowing.

So here's my idea. Rather than buy a Dynomax or a Flowmaster or a stock replacement and two new 90-degree exhaust pipes, what if I used a straight ****-tuner type muffler right off the intermediate pipe? Certainly, that'd be a much more freely-flowing system; it'd be easier to install too--just clamp it right on the end of the intermediate pipe. Best yet, the selection of import-tuner mufflers seems largely stainless steel and of higher quality than the american-turbo-sytle for less or equal money.

I think it'd tuck in there quite nicely--granted, that'd make the outlet sideways just behind the driver's side rear wheel rather than straight back, but I'd be okay with that.

Really, I'm worried only about the sound: would it just be IDIOTIC? Would people just crack up as I drove by? I mean, I'd be okay if it were tight, deep, and maybe even a little on the loud side. But I couldn't handle the whole import-fart tone.

What's the opinion? Worth a try? Or is the idea just totally baked?

Thanks, guys.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

get a Raven muffler & use your idea right off the i-pipe. also weight savings

Gumby

more flow, heck yea. After fixing many leaks in the stock system the hi Rs got slugish and not so free so I went with a free flow muffler.

PontiacRacing

I've been toying around with this same idea for awhile. I've been wondering how our V6s would sound with one of those type of mufflers.

TomP

My guess is that it would sound like garbage... I've never heard one that sounded good.

TomJ23, actually most of the exhaust comes out of the driver's side pipe; it's not "forced" to split evenly to the passenger side pipe. You'd see that on a cold morning; you'll see more fog from the driver's side than the passenger side.

As far as longevity; I've had my current Dynomax super-turbo catback (#17493, Summit Racing # WLK-17493) on since 1998.

I had one from '96 to '98 but my rear passenger side hanger had fallen off, and the i-pipe was bouncing on the panhard rod- finally it cracked clean thru. I didn't have a welder back then so I just replaced the whole system- but aside from that crack, nothing had rusted thru.

So for longevity, to me, that's pretty good (6 years). I guess it won't last 100 years, but then again, neither will I.

Try your idea out; if it does sound like crap, then sell the muffler on Ebay.

Actually Summit Racing has a "handshake guarantee"; I wonder if they'd accept a used muffler if you told them it sounded like crap, and then used the store credit to buy another system off them. Give them a call and see, 800-230-3030 http://www.summitracing.com

Or maybe there's a used super-shiny-fart-can-style muffler up on ebay for cheap- even if it's dented, as long as it's cheap, you'd get a good idea on sound.

[edit] Actually, if your setup is 2.5", it's not stock. Stock was 2 1/4 inch for a V6's I-pipe (intermediate pipe, between cat and muffler) and I'm 99% sure the stock tailpipes were only 2.0 inch diameter.

Doward

TomP caught it - 2.5" isn't stock.

I'd suggest a simple Turbo muffler from Autozone, straight through. $18.

tomj23

Thanks, guys, for some superlative tech support. Indeed my 'bird must not have its stock exhaust system on, which leads me to more questions.

First, if I'm matching muffler to I-pipe with the stock slip-joint, do I buy a muffler with a matching input size? In other words, if my I-Pipe is indeed 2 1/4 inch, do I buy a muffler with a 2 1/4 inch input? Or do I have to compensate in some way for the pipe overlap in the joint? I.e., would I buy a muffler with a 2 1/2 input to be sure it'd slip over the 2 1/4 inch i-pipe? (1/4 inch of slipping space seems like an awful lot to me, but I thought I'd better ask the "duhh!" question and be sure.)

Second, wither I go fart-can, ravin' or Autozone $18 special (which is a suggestion most on-spot with my wallet--thanks again), would the passenger side I-pipe hanger be sufficient to support the muffler's weight? Given how close it is to the joint, I'm betting it'd be just right.

Thanks again, guys.

redraif

Correct 2.25... I think the 4th gen 3.4 cars came with 2.5 though per camaroz28.com

90firebird

its been done before.. this is a thread on superiroc's car, and he's got one on there.. scroll down and judge for yourself

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...import+muffler

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I've been toying with an idea for the exhaust for a while now. But the biggest question I have about the idea is:
Is it actually possible to do a true dual exhaust system on a thirdgen? If so, would I end up mirroring the stock routing on the driver's side (there don't seem to be much room in the back once you hit the rear LCA mounts) or is it possible to run down the side of the car, just behind the pinch weld, assuming side exit exhaust and a muffler similar to Gumby's on each side?
I've been toying with this ever since I found out that a new exhaust system is in the works (y-pipe is literally broken in half and some @ss couldn't weld anything together worth beans... was that way when I bought the car).

I have the car up on jackstands for the winter and am looking for something to keep me occupied for the month until I have to return to Ohio for the next quarter at school, so time is not really an issue, but cost is... (out of state surcharge bites)

BTW, when I do end up replacing the exhaust, is there anyone on here that would like a slightly used, very dirty Flowmaster 80 series? The connections will end up being slightly messed up as I do have to cut through three welds to get the bugger off (some moron decided to weld everything behind the y-pipe/cat connection together... ), but I am willing to sell it cheap since it is used and no longer shiny like it was when new.

TomP

Actually, neither would work. You're absolutely right about the 1/4 inch seeming like too much; I.D. and O.D. go out the window here. They already compensate for the slip fit in the pipe measurements. I'd imagine that yes, you could buy a muffler with a matching input size. On our cars, the I-pipe slides into the muffler. The muffler's inlet is slightly larger than the I-pipe's outlet. It's been that way on all cars I've seen; it should be that way on any muffler (pipes slide into the muffler instead of vice-versa).

If you have a way to check the end of your current intermediate pipe, somehow trace it on the end of a piece of paper, or measure both the inside and outside diameters with a ruler, and bring that to the store where you're buying the muffler from. Then you can check it right there at the store.

Quote:

Second, wither I go fart-can, ravin' or Autozone $18 special (which is a suggestion most on-spot with my wallet--thanks again), would the passenger side I-pipe hanger be sufficient to support the muffler's weight? Given how close it is to the joint, I'm betting it'd be just right.

Should be okay; you could always make a bracket to connect up to the driver's side hanger, too. All you'd need would be a bar of flat strip stock from Home Depot's hardware aisle (about $8 for a 6 foot length of 1/8th thick, 3/4" wide steel), a hammer, and a vice. You could either tie both hangers together, or if your intent was to pipe the output behind the driver's side tire, you could make a "band" around the whole muffler by wrapping the steel around the muffler, then hooking that into the driver's side hanger.

If you buy a welder and have the time, anything's possible... JC Whitney is one place off-hand that sells lengths of exhaust pipe, I know Summit Racing used to, but I'm not sure if they do anymore. Couple that with a bunch of pre-bent mandrel bends (Summit definately carries these, by Hooker) and you'd be able to fab your own pipes. Pages like http://www.a-1performance.com/super_...lers/index.htm give you the dimensions of mufflers; you'd have to see what mufflers could fit, and where they'd go.

Gumby

You wound me Tom. My car sounds good.
Though my whole exhaust is free flowing , no cat.

I actually enjoy driving without the radio on now. When before I use to crank it up just not to hear the whiny sounds of the stock system. All good deep tones with none of the V6 raspy sound.

I now enjoy rev'in it out more as it doesn't sound like a hondu coming.

90firebird

maverick, there is a sticky on the exhaust boards regarding true dual exhaust systems on thirdgens...
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=204351

TomP

LOL! But yours isn't a tuner-style exhaust (like the original poster asked about), right? Isn't that a Cherry Bomb? Plus you're using "normal" sized pipes; your muffler isn't dumping out to a 5" tip like the import-tuner style mufflers I see around here that sound like garbage.

PontiacRacing

How much difference in sound does the tip make?

90firebird

I personally don't think it would make too much of a difference. Besides a minor difference in tone/volume, I don't think one of those mufflers will all of a sudden make your car sound like a honda d15. a 60* V6 will sound like a 60* V6....

PontiacRacing

I think within the next couple of weeks I am going to get one of those shiny "import" style mufflers with the dual tips and have it exit out the side. Haven't seen any Camaros around with an exhaust like that. Do you think it will sound any louder than my Flowmaster muffler?

90firebird

just like any other brand of muffler, i'm sure there are quiet ones and there are loud ones...

PontiacRacing

I would assume they'd sound like a glass pack since thats what they basically are. Unless I'm mistaken.