91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

i want a 15 second car on just valvetrain, drivetrain, and other bolt ons like pulleys, ignition, and stuff like that. I dont wont to do a engine swap or engine rebuild. I want no power adders or p&p or transmission rebuild. just a all motor 3.1 if its possible help me out with a list of things to do

what i have now
-custom cai
-dynomax super turbo catback
-jet 180 t-stat
-accel dist cap/rotor
-high flow cat

what will i run with just those 5 mods on a 125,000 mile 3.1 with a auto 700r4

kretos

no p&p or anything like that? not gonna happen

you will not get a 3.1 to 15 without any internal engine work

AM91Camaro_RS

agreed. you'll have to spray it or put some boost on it or something if you want to run atleast 15s without hardly touching the motor.

leeperryracing

I duuno man, from a v6 thats kinda tough without spending some cash.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

It could be done. Weight reduction

ditch the slushbox for a stick, gut interior. BUy a lightweight racing seat. Look into fiberglass hood. carbon fiber ds, lightweight tires & rims. Good clutch set for the stick. use all synthetic fluids. lower the car, have a belly pan made, see some posts on bumper support removal. you only need 1 side view mirror. etc, etc, etc,

Tranny swap doesn't equal rebuild

many posts on ignition upgrades & cai/ram air. gold race full roller roclers.

kretos

i still don't think that would get a 15 second car, especially with an older 3.1

FbodTrek

I'll say this, it took me a 3.4, cam swap, and complete valvetrain to get into the 15's (calculated 15's...Ran a 10.02 1/8th). I would suggest doing a camswap (somthing beefy), and a full P&P on your heads. You will probably dip into the 15's with that....maybe.

There's always weight reduction too, by reduction I mean GUTTING the car. Passenger seat, backseats, carpet, console, spare tire, jack, 12lbs of cd's, 40 lbs of stereo equipment, A/C compressor, dryer, evap core. Ripping that much weight from the INTERIOR. To lose weight on the car itself: removing swaybars, making aluminum LCA's, swapping that 200lb back glass for a lexan replacement, and buying the lighteset tire/rim combo you can find. Adding some 3.73 gears and an aluminum driveshaft would help too.
That was my goal too wehn I first bought my car. I realized that it wasn't possible with bolt-ons alone. I took the shurefire route and swapped froma 2.8 to a 3.4. THAT got me into the mid 16's... A few more things (headers, dumps) got me lower 16's. The cam swap worked with everything else to get me high 15's. I still plan on swapping some ported heads and a modified intake to the mix. I want as low a number possible on motor alone, THEN I spray the crap out of the combo and hope she hits a 13.XX

kretos

so true, if you want to hit 15's its gonna take more then a good cap and rotor kit

Project: 85 2.8 bird

My GPGT does mid 15's, so the same engien in the Firebird, w/bigger gears, lighter weight, transgo in tranny, should produce some nice numbers. But then you said no engine swapping

vsixtoy

How do you get a 15 sec V6 Camaro?

Give me $20,000 and I'll hand you the pink slip.

Give me another $5000 and It'll be doing low 14's naturally asperated.

But, its not for sale because I like it so much I'd built it to keep.

EDIT: I will also add that I didn't build it to do 15's, I have only built it for maximum handling so far and as a result of the lightweight high dollar componants, it is already doing aprox 15.8's on a motor that is probably putting out around 165HP at the flywheel.

kretos

lol quit bragging

i love what you've done with your car

vsixtoy

Thank you Kretos. There is some top secret stuff coming real soon I hope and its not motor related. I will say that for a few weeks I will be the envy of all on these boards

Teaser? Hell yes.

But sorry, I can't say for now. I am not allowed yet.

FbodTrek

Dangit.... Yeah, I just WISH i had your setup, Maybe I'd already be running 14's NA

vsixtoy

No you don't, You really should wish you had a Ferrari instead- this car is just the wifes grocery getter that I have been finding myself saying more and more that I have grown addicted to by accident. I never intended on building it this radical, but the handling suprized me that I can't stop with it.

kretos

i look forward to seeing what your coming up with now

FbodTrek

You don't know how many times I've considered dropping this project with the Camaro, and starting on the s14 I have sitting at the shop. KA24 motor, and already as fast as a modded 3.8L Firebird (I held the guy on the top end pretty good anyway). I just love my little car, and I've put WAYYY to much time and blood into this car to sell it. I always think to myself when I lose a race, "Time to go a different route", OR ," Aaron, quit wasting your time trying to make a v6 into a racecar". But, then I have those good moments (few and far between). The ole' "ONE LAST MOD" speech you give yourself, never holds water does it Dean?

vsixtoy

To me, This is the perfect car to build for everyday enjoyment. Its a full size American sports car (Not some small import) yet it is lightweight enough to be agile and is very much easier to drive than a V8 Camaro (For the record: I have driven many including an 11.5 sec one an old neighbor of mine Sterling had- haven't seen him in years now, gotta be 10+).

I don't want a car faster than low 14's for everyday street driving and milage. I have a 10 sec Vette that sits in storage and my wife has only ridden in it twice when I used to keep it in the garage up to about 4 years ago (For the record I have been married to my wife for 13years now- and yes I said twice) The second time she brunt the crap out of her leg climbing out over the Hooker sidepipes, her back hurt from the mainhole covers we hit, we had to yell to eachother to talk, couldn't leave it anywhere and go shopping (I might have BS her on this one) and when we got home from about a 3 hr excursion down the 5, across the coast on PCH for breakfast, then back up the 55fwy home, we were both beat and glad to stuff it back into the garage.(My clutch foot was killing me from the beach traffic) Memorable- but not enjoyable. Hence why this car will remain much more tame. The Camaro V6 is a perfect daily driver to build moderately and still be functional as a family transporter- its serving its purpose to us well.

vsixtoy

Front suspension related. I am not building it- I have just been asked to give technical support and help develop the idea. I will be getting one of the first units to work out the details for road use.

Theres your hint- I'll say nothing further on this subject though.

AM91Camaro_RS

dean, you said you'll say nothing further but surely you can answer this question... is it going to be a production item or is it being custom built for you?

kretos

if hes not allowed to talk about it, i'd say its a production item we might all be seeing sometime down the road



good luck dean

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

ok if i cant get 15 seconds out of the v6 that what will i be running with valvetrain upgrades and bolt-ons. also this is a street car not a drag car i just what a car that can beat imports at my high school. If i was aloud i would have a v8 but parents wont let me so im trying to make this car fast but i cant have p&p and rebuild, just my 3.1 how it is. so how fast can i make it with the 3.1?

dJLegacyo0

get a z.e.x. nitrous kit. like a 75-100 hp shot would do the job. Just gotta be carefull with it.

FbodTrek

Yeah, most intelligent import owners are much faster than people believe. Your average swapped Civic will run 14's all day long. You either need to spray with about a 75 shot (probably more to beat them), or go ahead and build an engine on a stand over time, and drop it in when the time comes. You're still in HS, so nows the time for you to start building your first motor (wish I had a car in HS...). Go the for sure route, buy a used 3.4L, port the heads, build a nice valvetrain, add a beefy cam, modify the manifold, and add a pair of Headers. If you pick the right cam, and port the haeds the right way, I could see a 14 second motor easily (people have done it many times). Build the bottom end strong enough to hold about a 150 shot, and you'll see some NICE numbers (and none of the HS kids will ba able to touch you at the local drags) .

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

thanks for the reply, i would like to keep my 3.1 and p&p the heads, and intake plenum, runner, manifold. what will i run with p&p heads, intake plenum, runner, and melling mtc-5 cam, crane gold racing roller rockers 1.5 ratio, and all the other bolt ons, (headers, igntion upgrades, and pulleys and tranny mods?

Doward

Go 1.6 roller rockers, and you'd need some good chip tuning. Toss the automatic, get a WC T5 with a short throw shifter, LCAs, LCARBs, and a zexel torson posi in the back, you should be able to get 15s.

Of course, you could go my route - turbo kit, and be running 15s at almost 100 mph (I REALLY need the LCAs, LCARBs, and posi unit in!!)

And just how much would you be spending for all that? $2500 or so? A little more, you'll be there on the STOCK motor - and then those upgrades will mean SO MUCH MORE on the turbocharged motor!

kretos

turbo it

Camaro_nut

16.5, if your lucky! I used to have a 3.1L w/auto and did
same exact mods you have there. It ran mid to high 16s
in the 1/4. Next step for you to get into the 15s is:

1.) Nitrous kit
DO NOT go any more than a 75hp shot!
You willl have a lesser chance of blowing the thing up
with just a 50-75 shot.

2.) More bolt ons
Get the underdrive pullies ( or just crank pulley),
headers, 3.73 gears for the rear end, and you should
get custom PROM tuning.

With about $1,000.00-$1,500.00 later and NO turbo or internal
parts you should get a full second off!

Only drawback: to insure good traction for those times
is suspension! Like they said here before: LCAs, LCA
relocation brackets, panhard rod, good tires and either
a limited slip or locker unit.

The suspension IS necessary to get good "bite" when
launching out of the hole! Otherwise, plan on a burnout
everytime!

Doward

Just to put that in perspective - I ran a 16.7 on a stock 3.1 with a 5 speed. The weight savings + lower % drivetrain loss makes a big difference in our V6s!

Camaro_nut

Sounds right with a manual. The auto is about 17.0-
17.2 stock. But only doing those 5 mods he did on
an auto will only get to about 16.5-16.9. I ran 16.5
in my car with those same mods. But that's with
the auto.

So, with that said, add T-5 manual trans swap to the
list! Just my 2 cents, I am GLAD to go from that slow
slush box to a T-56! Never been happier.

kretos

best mod for your buck

wc t-5 with pro 5.0 shifter

shouldn't cost you more then 600-800 bucks to do

Camaro_nut

Yes I agree. I wish a WC T-5 can hold up a 400hp
motor, but I didn't take the chance, and went with
a T-56 with Pro 5.0 shifter. Costs more than double
the T-5 setup.


NOTE: DO NOT buy an aftermarket manual for
a thirdgen! It WILL NOT fit right. The driveline
angles WILL be altered severely.

kretos

you could beef up a wc t-5 enough but it was probably cheaper to go the way you did, stick with 88 up v6 trannys (they are wc)

Jerriko 3.4

Forgive my ignorance, but what is LCARBs?

FbodTrek

Lower control arm relocation brackets (not necessary if you're at stock ride height).

Jerriko 3.4

Thank you.

Doward

Actually, they will help, no matter what your ride height A little more angle than stock will help with the takeoff!

Jerriko 3.4

In what direction? The front of the LCAs being lower or higher?

AM91Camaro_RS

the front of the LCAs will stay in their stock location, the back of them is dropped down with the LCARBs.

Doward

Correct, you want the rear of the LCA angled downward, for a better bite.

vsixtoy

I have to chime in here.
You want yor LCA angles as close to parallel to the chassis as pssible without any wheel hop. Setting the rears any lower is only raising the instant center of the car and hurting weight transfeer front to rear. Straightline traction is only as good as weight transfer onto that tire.

By loering the angle any futher than this will also promote massive oversteer in the rearend making the car dangerous in corners.

Jerriko 3.4

This is what I have heard for years.

Doward

I'm definitely not one to disagree with you, Dean, on suspension matters - but why would they be such a huge improvement over stock? The stock bracket location is much closer to parallel than the LCARB's locations are.... I was under the impression that by lowering the angle of the LCA, and in keeping it within in the stock arm's arc of travel, it forces the rear end down - resulting in better traction. All about the instance center. I'll point to this -

http://www.spohn.net/product.cfm?productid=1290

and this -

as to why I think that....

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...ation+brackets

vsixtoy

DOward, The best way I can explain in words is the LCA angle only raises and lowers the instant center. It does not move it for and aft. The length of the TQarm is what detemines the instant centerline for and aft.

Now the higher the IC is, the more the nose weight wants to rotate under it as launch weight transfer forces weight towards the rear. You want the weight to transfer pivoting up over the IC height and then down on the rear tires. The higher this is (combined with limited traction of street tires) the harder it is for inistial grip of the rear tires to lift the frontend up above the higher IC and rotate the weight backwards. The lower the IC height is, the easier it will "teter-totter" over the IC and weight the rears.

Slicks and a light weight nose can get away with a steeper LCA angle than with street tires- so many other factors come into play also it is hard to teach this in one post.

You just basically want the IC low and/or back for launching in general on a street drag car.

Doward

OK, thanks. I appreciate you clearing that up

Supermann

Does the T5 conversion really only cost 600-800$? I mean, is that including all the other parts you are gonna need to go from the auto to stick? I personally have a leaking seal on my tranny, and was just planning on getting it fixed, then putting the transgo shift kit in, and maybe some stall converter that could launch it better. Would the stick just be a better solution? It just seems like there is a lot of work involved like the floor cutting, installing the clutch, ect... Just wanted to know if it really was that cheap and easy.

Camaro_nut

Depends on your skill level and experience. I had
no problems switching from auto to T-56, and that's
slightly harder to do than the T-5. T-5 is almost a direct
bolt in, minus cutting the floor for the shifter. Everything
else lines up with no special crossmember needed.

That's correct as far as a USED COMPLETE T-5 conversion.
Between $600-$800. T-5s are more available than the
T-56 (only from 93-97 in the F bodies for the gen II SBC).
T-5s were like from 85-97 ( Yes, some fourth gen's came
with a 5 speed!) Don't quote me exactly on the years,
but you get my point. Also for being a weaker trans.
and uses a more common style clutch system as compared
to the T-56, the T-5 is very cheap nowadays. T-56s
are nearly double the price for a complete used conversion.
Even the clutch kit is double the price compared to the T-5.

kretos

oh don't get us wrong. we never said cheap and easy. the parts aren't gonna cost you more then 800 bucks. but actually getting everything in thats a different story. it really all depends how good you are at fabbing things up

Camaro_nut

Yeah, listen to kretos! I keep saying everything is easy,
due to the fact that I have been doing this stuff since
1992!

So it really depends on your skill level and experience!
Keep that in mind!

Supermann

Well, then there is a problem. I don't have any real experience with fabrication, and I don't have any real place to work on it (like a garage). Do you think there are many places that would do the swap? But then there is the cost problem. Just can't win. But does the shift kit and higher stall sound like a good idea?

Supermann

and does the gears in the rear make a big difference? I am not exactly sure what I have, but I think they are 2 somethings, but all I know is I can't spin my tires in a straight line, which may be something a lot of you try to prevent, but I wouldn't mind being able to smoke them when I want to. Would higher gears be the answer, and like what size is good?