TomP

Question: Will a 2.8 pass the ASM/5015 (Assembly & Maintenance, 50% dyno load at 15 MPH) NJ smog test if it has 3.1 injectors?
Answer: YES, because I PASSED today!! Hell yeah!!

Here's the data!

NOx
-----
max allowed: 1227
my reading: 395

HC
-----
max allowed: 162
my reading: 101

CO
-----
max allowed: 0.91
my reading: 0.02 (wow!)

Not bad for 266,947 miles! Thank you to Dale, LT1guy/RedRaif, Karl (KED85), Gumby, & CaliCamaro for the help in https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=214856 !! The injectors were Multec units from a 90-92 3.1 f-body, unknown mileage- and I never got to send them to Cruzinperfromance.com for a cleaning. (I got a ticket for expired inspection and had to get inspected quick!)

Work done to pass:
-cleaned distributor cap/rotor contacts with file
-new AC R42TS plugs, gapped to 0.045
-Purolator air filter in original GM airbox
-cleaned IAC system
-verified correct voltage for TPS
-pcv valve
-fuel filter
-oil & oil filter change
-checked all plug wires with ohmmeter
*new Catco catalytic convertor from SummitRacing.com , CTO-4115
-new oxy sensor
-fixed exhaust leak at manifold-to-y-pipe connection (more later)
-Valvoline Synpower "Complete Fuel Treatment", $10 @ Pep Boys
-5 stitches at ER last night

WOW, the car has a buttload of power now!! And mileage is unbelievable! So thumbs up to those 3.1 injectors!! I only wish I knew if it was the extra flow that caused the improvement, or if my 2.8 injectors were clogged up. I think I'll send them to Rich J so he can clean them for me as a "backup set".

Exhaust leak at y-pipe-to-manifold connection- turns out the stud wasn't stripped as I thought. The nut was so old/rusty that it was "loose" on the stud- a new nut solved the problem! I'll try to get the dimensions for it this weekend (bought two out of a local hardware store and didn't think to write down the dimensions)

5 stitches- ouch. Dropped an exhaust tip last week when I bottomed out on my driveway. I had it held on with a Dynomax stainless steel band clamp- see it at http://store.summitracing.com/partde...rt=WLK%2D33240 . The bolts were super-tight, so I got the twin-hammer impact wrench out to get the clamp off the edge of my tailipipe. It's pounding away, and I stop and think "What if the bolt snaps?" So I go put on safety goggles. I come back, and I'm beating up the bolt at the gun's highest power, and I'm leaning backwards in case the bolt snaps and flies away.

Well- the bolts didn't budge. The CLAMP budged! It slid off the end of the exhaust pipe, spun around with the full force of my impact wrench, and the sharp edge of the band whipped into my left index finger's knuckle. Didn't hurt at all until I looked at it and saw "inside" my finger!

Luckily it didn't take my finger off (the edge of those clamps is SHARP!), and didn't go to the bone. So I've got my 1st ever stitches... 5 of 'em, and have my finger wrapped up in gauze, and looks like I'll have a nasty scar. So (a) watch out for those band clamps, and (b) always get the gloves when using air tools! I'm a "9 times out of 10" kind of guy... now I'll be 100% using those Mechanix M-Pact gloves. Plus I have no medical insurance... I can't wait to see that ER bill. (sigh) And typing is a complete bitch... I'm trying to learn to type one-handed without looking... i'm not doing that bad with it.

But- I passed emissions!!! Lets see them try to pull me over now! (I was avoiding 5 towns whose cops are known to be in "attack" mode) Now it won't take 45 mins to get to work! And my test drive of last night showed me an estimate of 20 mpg/highway!

I do wonder, though- the HC # is high compared to the other readings- I didn't beat HC by much, and HC is unburnt gas. SO maybe it is a bit extra fuel, but not enough to make the car upset.

eric17422001

Congratulations on the passing Mr.P!

NOW, seeing as you have tuned up the baby, re done it's running gear last year, how about stitching in that quarter panel and giving her some fresh paint? I'd help if I was in Joy-zee.

Eric

Damien00677

Congrats on the pass

What kind of readings do you get with your ohmmeter on your wires? I get a pretty wide range, but maybe that is a result of poor connections or something.

2_point8_boy

Tom, just so you know, the "ASM" in the test means "Acceleration Simulation Mode." The test speeds and loads are designed to simulate acceleration when you emissions are the highest.

Your high HC readings indicates incomplete combustion, probably due to the high milage rings/valve seats. If you were running rich you would see lower NOx levels and Higher CO% then you have. Good numbers though, and it's always fun to see how different the cut-offs are in different states.

Here were my max numbers when I passed last year here in California:

15 mph:
HC (PPM) : 114 (I read measured 114)
CO (%) : 0.73 (measured 0.14)
NOx (PPM) : 785 (measured 122)

25 mph:
HC (PPM) : 88 (I read measured 81)
CO (%) : 0.61 (measured 0.07)
NOx (PPM) : 724 (measured 140)


I can't beleive that you put a catco cat on. One time cats, that's all. I bet you need a new one in 2 years. At the smog shop that I work at, every damn time we see a car with a catco that isn't brand new, it is either REALLY close to the cut-off, or fails.

Congrats on passing though. I just finally figured out my stupid mis-fire problem that's been getting me lke 12 mpg. Turns out that after I replaced my timing set, I cracked a plug insulator and it wasn't firing the cylinder all the time. The crack was so tiny that I couldn't see it unless I looked REALLY hard, put in a new plug and now I really feel the difference that a new timing chain makes. I can chirp 3rd gear now. Turns out that I was overthinking the problem and thought that I had the cam one tooth advanced, but with the cylinder not firing, the )2 picked up the extra oxygen and thought that it was running lean, so it made the motor run pig rich. Now I'm getting my usual high milage again.

yellowmaro

Just curious, what oil and filter do/did use use for your test? I, after reading on this site, have bought some Marvel Mystery Oil. Did you use any for this test? My grandpa always put some in his vehicles after bad gas from the early 1970's oil embargo/ bad gas/gas lines. He was diving a 1971 Galaxie 390 manual steering and brakes, my first car, nuff said, I had arms like popeye after that. Just curious.

CaliCamaroRS

LOL, I was just about to say that. Anyways, congrats Tom.

TomP

Whoops, guess I confused ASM with IM/240 (IM stands for inspection & maintenance, right?)- thanks for the info guys!!

Damien, I didn't write 'em down, but I think lowest was 80 ohms and highest was 130 ohms? (MSD 8.5mm wires, 50 ohms/foot) What I was looking for was a wire that was way out of spec, like, 8000 ohms. I've had some wires over the years that have done that.

2_point_8, thanks for posting your specs! Wow, those CA limits are brutal! I wish I knew what the pre-dyno-test limits were for NJ.

You think the high-mileage has to do with incomplete combustion? I never knew that- although all the info I've seen probably didn't think about mentioning high-mileage motors. Well that's cool then, that means there's really nothing I can do to fix it until I rebuild the motor.

Yah I went w/Catco, even though I did see your response- problem was, when I got that ticket, I needed a cat quick, so I just ordered one up from Summit ASAP. Funny tho how my old Dynomax one had a heat shield welded to top & bottom of the cat, this one "just" has one welded to the top.

Glad to hear ya fixed the problem.. don't those stupid problems suck? I'll have to keep an eye out for a cracked insulator from now on.. was it like a fine hairline crack that you needed powder for? Could you see it at all? Could you feel it with your fingernail?

Yellomaro, I used Valvoline 10w30 (4.5 quarts) and an AC PF52 filter. You did a 3.4 swap, right? In '86, GM spec'd the PF-47 for a 2.8... but in '89, they spec'd a PF52, which holds an extra 1/2 quart of oil, so that's the filter I use.

I also put in that $10 bottle of Valvoline fuel treatment, seemed to help! (I haven't used a cleaner since last summer!) It was a pain tho; I put the bottle in, with 3/4 tank of gas, the day before the test. I was used to the crappy mileage- so I was thinking that a one hour drive would bring me down to empty- then I could fill the tank and go for the test. Ha! So 2 hours later (this is after the emergency room trip, by the way!) I gave up, and went home, with 1/4 tank left. I filled the tank tho before I went for the test, so I assume it diluted any cleaner I had left in the tank. Usually I use the red "STP Gas Treatment" 8 oz bottle for $1.00- it seems to give me the best improvement.

Oh & Eric, yeah, that 1/4 panel is coming up this year. I gotta find me another daily driver though... I'd like to find a $250 f-body with a 2.8 MPFI , because when I'm done with my car, I could work on the "beater" and hopefully sell it for more than I buy it for. Hah, plus, maybe I could do a "test paint job" on it, before I spray my own car!

KED85

Tom Great results at the hospital
Bummer on the med insurance issue.
I've had 6 stitches done on the tip of my finger. That was great sewing work in itself.
YA CA smog limits are "brutal". JUST WISH THE GAS WAS AS CHEAP AS JERSEY
I just heard from Brother who gets gas in Trenton at Medimum grade gas at $1.64!
PF52 is the same as the PF51 & ya can't stick an extra 1/2 quart of oil in the engine, as it is still holds 4 quarts. I stick in 4 qt & it's at full mark on stick.
I like Liquid Gumout for gas treatment. Been using it since my first fuel injected car back in 1978 the Pubic Buick Opel FI SportWagon (which used same FI system as a Porsche).
Hope your head gaskets don't give out on ya soon.

br()bert

Congrats on the stiches! Just kidding, the needle they give you is great aint it? I think the damn thing hurts more than if they'd just stich the damn gash with no needle.

I sliced open my knuckle on the ring finger of my left hand once with a fileting knife. Knife slipped, hit my hand and when i looked at it i saw my knuckle sticking out of the skin!!!

Went to the hospital, got the needle like 10 times, this young girl stiched me up , she took along time, when she was done she stood their and said, oh im sorry i think i messed up, ill go get the doctor, he can cut them out and start over!

I was like B**** you arent a doctor? wtf are you doing sewing my hand up for? My hand looked like a 10 year old mongaloid sew it up! I was SOOOOOOOO mad!!

2_point8_boy

Right. i love running the I/M 240's on our dyno at work. We have it available in Manual Mode and they are WAY more fun than the ASM test.

You are probaly starting to notice that when you change the plugs there is a little more carbon build up on them than usual too, right? Your rings and cylinder walls are worn, so you are getting less than optimal compression with a lot more blow by. The compression is what kills you. With the blow by and low compression, you don't completly combust, hence the high HC's.

I can understand that, i was there once. Just giving you a hard time.

At first it was this ultra tiny crack that I could barely feel. i just thought that it was a deficiency in the enamal coating. After driving a while, the problem got worse and worse, but since I had already removed the plugs and saw that they were "good," i didn't even think about it. I couldn't hear the normal snapping that a grounding plug like that makes, but sure enough, once I finally got around to taking the plug back out, it was cracked all the way around and there was carbon build up where I think it all started.

FbodTrek

Damnnn Brobert! That freakin BLOWS dude! I woulda sued the place for Malpractice.

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

The stitches themselves hurt only slightly more than the needle for the anisthetic. Bro-in-law had his hand slip while we were carrying a steel workbench and I got a nice set without anisthetic in my left palm...left hand still has nerve damage.

TomP

Karl, true, gas is cheaper over here, but not by too much- I pay about $1.79/gallon for 87 octane. You only put 4 quarts in? The filter is what sucks up the other 1/2 quart... strange. If I only put 4 quarts in, my dipstick will read 1/2 quart too low. Was that Opel a mechanical fuel injection?

Man you guys and your stitches- ouch. Looks like I got off easy, espcially since the doctor got it right the first time! She was surprised I didn't cry out when she stuck me for the local anethestic, but I told her that the impact gun/clamp incident hurt a lot worse! (My knuckle still feels sore, but the "stitched" area is okay. I'm glad I didn't break the bone!) I gotta call to make an appointment to get these things taken out.. hopefully thursday or friday. I'm tempted to snip 'em out myself with small nail clippers... but knowing me, I'd screw something up. I was worried about nerve damage, but everything seems fine so far. The cut wasn't as much deep as it was "long", ya know?

And yeah, 2_point8, there has been more carbon lately. It's been on the outer ring around the center electrode- you know, at the edge of the metal threads- but the plug itself "reads" fine. I was wondering what that was about.

I bet my cam lobes are getting wiped out, too... when I do get around to rebuilding a 2.8, I'm going to check the lift out of this old camshaft with my dial gauge before I tear the motor down.

What's different about manual mode then (i assume) automatic mode? Does automatic actually work the throttle linkage itself or something?

KED85

As a Porsche, the 1975 Opel is Bosch L-Jetronic Electric Fuel Injection.
ONLY TRUE mechanical fuel injection mills I'm aware of is a "Diesel" (especially Mercedes), the old 1955 Mercedes Gullwings (Gas Fuel Injection) and that Bosch system was "copied" by Zora Arkus-Duntov for the Rochester Fuel Injection system used on the 1957-1959 Chevy's & 1957-65 Corvettes & 1957 Pontiac. Yes Pontiac!
Yeah the novacane needles hurt way more than the stitching.
I get 4 quarts to my ride. Seems to make the stick level off correct. Even the books call for the 4 quart capacity. PF52 filters, too.
Tom, please be real and rebuild or just slip in a 3.4 & have fun.
Rebuild an old Corvette engine for fun!

89V6FBIRD

Wow... I don't remember when it was that cheap... last time I filled up it was $2.12 for 87 octane...

TomP

Well hopefully with that rotton ex-fiance out of my way, I'll be able to spend more time on the car (why oh why did I let the car go to crap??) this year, and hopefully rebuild it ALL! I'd like to do it's second restoration this summer... we'll see if I actually make it this time. Thanks for the scoop on the earlier fuel injection! I'll have to look that stuff up... I love learning about the early days of hot rodding!

The way I cope with gas prices is that I don't look at 'em. I just ask for $10 or $20 worth, and don't check the price.

As for the stitches- all it took was some Bactine, tweezers, a new razor blade, and a shot of Tequila, and I don't have them in my finger anymore. That was rough.. try working tweezers AND a razor blade with one hand! At least I can bend my finger again.

Camaro_nut

It's still around $1.78 a gallon for 87 octane here in MA.
But that's expected to sky rocket very soon!

devianb

Thats great Tom, and looks like you passed with ease too.

mmcdjs

Did you have to change the injector constants in the BIN to make these work? If not, how about changing them and seeing if your emissions/MPG change any.

TomP

Sure, how 'bout giving me a prom burner and the software and some bin's?

SSC

A few bottles of Bacardi cure all of those ailements, I know all to well, sure do miss my house and 4x4. Amazing how much women change so quickly but then its our fault, right The last stiches I had were accros my eyebrow, damn headers. Dident see a need to pay a co-pay for a 2 minute procedure. Would have been nice to get an endocet refill but.. Is it me or do all major injurys come from exhuast components?

Anyway It would be real interesting to see how your car performs with cleaned 2.8 injectors back in. I know Vader brags on CP'S work.

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

Just have to find a fiance that says, "Next time you think of buying me something, how about you take the price and put it into your car instead." And people wonder how my girl became my fiance.

Nope, saw a not too bright guy have a sway bar drop on his mouth...only lost 5 teeth.

br()bert

Im reminded of an old GnR song, " I used to love her, but i had to kill her"


And the sway bar in the mouth! OUCH!


Come to think of it, i tottaly forgot till now. I chopped the tip of my finger off one time from an exhaust pipe! I worked at a carquest car parts store when i was like 19. I was reaching up to pull a Y pipe from the rack when it fell down on me.Part of the pipe went through my finger, it grew back but DAMN did that hurt.


Damnit i have to stop reading this thread! Too many old injuries coming back to mind!

KED85

How about the one where ya get rear end, by the Hertz Claims Adjuster, 3 weeks after your Bi-Lateral Hernia Operation.
Hope your eyes have mended from blindness of the wrong women.
I recall how nice the Shore & Boardwalk was littered with too many Cute Girls.