89V6FBIRD

Worth the $90 + shipping? I'm thinking of redoing my brakes soon, maybe in the summer.

FAST RS

I got some slotted rotors from HAWKS i think that was there ebay name but they were worth the 90.00 but i orderd 2 parts for my firebird and both items were wrong and miss leading. But id say go for them.

BitchinRS

Power Slot rotors go for $84 I belive. A bit cheper and no holes. No holes = wont crack under hard stress.

Gumby

link plz

Xceleratemaro

I THINK THEY SUCK!!PLEASE READ THIS POST B4 CONSIDERING THEM,https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=225335

FbodTrek

Slotted and/or drilled rotors are hype. If anything, your car with stop slower. if you wear the rotor surface, they cannot be machined on a brake lathe, which means you'll have to buy another set. Just get OEM rotors and some GOOD pads (EBC greenstuff, Hawk reds, Brembo) either semi-metallic or "performance". Oh, and some Stainless brake lines WILL definately improve braking.

Xceleratemaro

this is my new set up to be.. i just order the earls brake lines..

FAST RS

The Z-Rated pads work great lifetime warranty im gonna do mine in about 10 mins. Time to teach my girlfriend how to do a brake job. I have Slotted rotors and have no problem with them.

Lee7

Slotted rotors are stupid, they dont work very well.

Get just plain old Cross Drilled, they help cool the rotors, prevent rotor warpage. They dont crack either, provided they are chamfered. (most nowadays are)

Lee7

that thread is retarded. If any of that was true, why would Porsche, Ferrari, Jag, F1, etc use cross drilled rotors on thier cars?

Gumby

Squeeze me? I have slotted rotors on my bike and I know they work better than the plain stock disc and I think they work better than drilled ones. But they must be true slotted and not just some slot like groves cut into them. A slot should be cut all the way through like a drilled rotor.

I would buy slotted ones first over drill, if they were true slots.

And why cant you turn a slotted or drilled rotor???

You can have motorcycle disc machines with slots or holes, what so special about a car???

Gumby

I'd double check them pads. Them ones with the edges filed down are for front wheel drive cars. Some say that its added for cooling but its BS. You lose 20% of your pad contact and they wear out to fast. Lots of parts are made to fit 50 cars, Gotta check each brand to find the older better all flat pad.


I was talked once into buying them shaped suckers but the pad loss was worse than any "cooling" gains.

If you want cooling get slotted disc or run ducting.

Gumby

Just watching NASCAR on FOX and they showed a brake rotor. It had just the "slot" groves cut into it with an odd pattern like this.

Lee7

yeah, yours are good. I was talking about the slotted ones that didnt go all the way thru.

Nixon1

I'd say rotor size and pads make the biggest difference....and also what fluid you're running. Brakes get hot. In road-racing/autocross situations, VERY hot. That naturally heats up the brake fluid....once it reaches it boiling point, your brakes will fail pretty quickly!

I was "road-racing" my car about 2 weeks back. It had the brakes all just done, with stock equipment. New front calipers, remachined rotors, new pads, and new rubber brake hoses. I took it out and after maybe 5-10 minutes of heavily beating on it, entering a corner I lost brakes entirely. Pedal went to the floor and the car could barely stop. I had steam pouring off my front brakes and my fluid is pretty much burnt now. My belief is that I was experiencing initial brake fade due to my pads being glazed over and overheating badly....and the final, sudden brake failure was due to my boiling the fluid and sort of vapor-locking the brake lines...or I might have been expanding the rubber brake hose as well.

But I'm no expert....these are just my observations.

Xceleratemaro

well it appaer's your the expert now would you like to back any of that up with fact?


how do you "know" they work better? and useing a bike as an example is not a good idea-it dose'nt have near the moving inertia as a car.. , you can have them turned if need be, but only with an accurcut time laith , because conventional laiths drag the blade there for draging the metal off, which if gaps are present, will cause the laith blade to chatter giving an iregular grind.

the accurcut laith blade actually cuts rather than drags, so the surface having gaps does not affect it as much, and also gives a cleaner and smoother surface. most gm dealers have the accurcut type laith.





they are for front wheel drive cars i think you need to check your sources! just so you know the pads i have are race proven cabon metallic pads-one of the best preformance pad for the street. yes they WILL wear out quicker but they WILL also preform better. now explain how the hell a slotted disc will "cool" your brakes down? Personally I think that any other 'fancy' rotor is not needed when non-organic pads are being used.
now i think you need to go back and READ through this post not just scan it...... https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=225335


yea i mean they probably do not change the pad or rotors after every race its not like they rebuild the rest of the car between races.
here are some pics..

Xceleratemaro

1

Lee7

Xceleratemaro, rotors are supposed to crack. The cracks are only dangerous if they connect between 2 holes. Harmless if not.

Xceleratemaro

you have to be kidding me ..right?:nono: :werd:

halfpint

If you guys want excelent pads and drilled rotors for 10.5" systems then go to Stillen Performance. They sell a metalmatrix pad formula that if far better and more preditable than the Performance Friction pads.

PF pads do not have any initial bite, you have to lay on them with fairly moderate pedal pressure before you get them to work. The edge mitters on the PF pads do also take away from pad surface area. They are made that way to help prevent any moaning noise at low speed. Just do a small leading edge bevel with the stillen pads(aprox 60* bevel, not 45* like PF and certainly not on both ends) Bevel cut just relieves the square leading edge from vibrating at low speed light brake pressure (aka- rolling up to a stop sign in stop and go traffic)

I have tried just about every pad out there and Stillen are the best for street/autocross use. EBC greens are also fair, but not nearly as good as Stillen. I unfortunately can't run them on my setup/ none made to fit my application. I run a 12.2" rear setup with Wilwood pads that still moan very slightly when cold.

ROTORS- slotted, drilled, etc...

Its not the drills or slots that cause cracking, but more of how the are drilled or slotted. Size of holes, camfers, and spacing come into play very critically. THEN- AND MOST IMPORTANTLY- its the quality of the metal used in the rotor. The two examples shown 1) the Porcshe Brembo setup is fine for street but the guy overheated them for track use, the hole spacing is way too close for the heat expansion of racing use for that drill design. 2) the slotted rotor is just plain cheap quality metal. I have seen solid rotors crack the same way without slots or drills. I have raced many, many times on Stillen rotors (Crossdrilled) and have never had them crack, good metal. Powerslots are terrible, they are a very soft metal.

The rotors on the motorcycle are not vented rotors and are a very lightweight application, so the slots machined all the way through help act as a vented rotor on a single non-vented disc. This would warp and brak very quickly on a full size car, slots can only be dimpled and not slotted clear trough rotor surface.

If slots are so bad and outdated, then tell me why EVERY 2003 Trans Am Racing series cars run different variations of slotted rotors? Thank you.

Heres a shot of my wilwood rear discs with very hard track use on them-

halfpint

Oh yes, Those Hawk rotors have a very desireable drill and slot pattern, The look strong and functional. Only question I have is the quality of the metal they use- I have no idea, I have never used them- For the price its worth a try.

Lee7

-- MOD EDIT --
Lee7, please don't insult people like that
-- END --
You know nothing about brake technology.

My BMW has Brembo cross drilled rotors all around. Its been only 3 months and there are some very fine cracks.

Brembo makes some of the best brake hardware in the world.

Go look at ANY Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, etc with cross drilled rotors from the factory, you WILL see cracks. If cracks were dangerous at all, i dont think those companies would jeopardize thier name by putting them on thier vehicles.

TomP

And another thing I heard (which probably goes along with the special lathe), that a regular machine shop really doesn't want to turn 'em because their bits will break or chip (when they hit the holes as they drag across the surface). And those bits aren't cheap...

I'd say instead of dropping all that money, just go to Home Depot and pick up some clear tubing- the wide stuff, like you'd use for draining a pool or something- and create cooling ducts for your brakes. Think of it as a cold air induction for your brake rotors. I haven't done it yet because I can't figure out the "rain scenario"- I need to figure a way that I can shut the tube off in the rain, so I don't get water on my rotors. All I can figure is hooking up a solenoid or motor or even a choke-pull cable that would raise the inlet end of the tube "up" behind the front bumper.

F585

That sounds like a fun mod could you give me a little bit more info on that I don't drive my car in the rain but, I have no idea about that clear tubing do you mean PVC pipe?

Gumby

regular steel Rotors and Flywheels do get stress cracks as part of normal wear and can be machine out but sometimes are to bad.

Ive seen some flywheels that were spider web city.

Gumby

Use some of them vacuum gates on 70s-80s 4bb cars. The part in the air cleaner that has it suck exhaust air then cool air once warm. Nice size hole and easy vacuum control.

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

sounds like a great mod. I think I'll be adding that to my list of things to do in the near future.

F585

Will this be able to work with my front wheels? I think we found a good purpose for an electric supercharger

WaynesRS

hahahah ...i could see it now , a 3rd or even a 4th gen camaro going down the road with a supercharger being visible through the stock camaro rims !

F585

I Guess you can say "I got supercharged brakes"

FbodTrek

I sure won't turn them on my lathe. Carbide is quite expensive, I wouldn't want to have to shatter a bit cutting some slotted/drilled rotors (and they WILL shatter as soon as they hit a hole). And, that cooling method would be awesome.

halfpint

I don't think so. I personally have turns drilled, slotted, and drilled & slotted rotors at least 20 times myself and never a problem with a cutting bit. You shouldn't post misimformation.

TechSmurf

I'm not going to get within 20 feet of the argument as to rotor efficiency, however, cutting slotted/drilled rotors with a lathe should be no problem so long as you're not trying to take .020" off in a pass or something. Just take your time and everything will be fine.

TomP

Ya know, I never thought of using an electric motor to cool the brakes. That'd be the best... then the ducts wouldn't have to be pointed forward. They could be pointed to the side! Maybe with a "U" shaped curve in them, with a drain hole poked thru the bottom of the U, to let water drain out. How much current do those electric superchargers use?

Oh wait, aren't those gimmicks a couple hundred bux?

TechSmurf

The one I've got laying around as I recall was 20-40 bucks on ebay.. as far as current draw, ~10 amps.

Gumby

They are cheaper if you buy them by for what they are really made for. See boats have sealed engine compartments and they keep them vented. Any boat supply website should be cheaper than Ebay.

Gumby

Your cutting way to fast and deep. And maybe a 1950-70 garage lathe won't have the fine adjustments needed. Or your to use to solid ones and taking off large amounts of material in one pass.

Gumby

I did come up with an idea for drilled and slotted rotors that would make them as strong or stronger than solid. With no chance of a stress crack.But if they haven't though of it already, I'm not gonna give a million dollar idea away.

Problem is modding a regular rotor is gonna leave room for stress cracks and wear when you cut or drill them. Its all easily solved with a new structure mold. hint hint

No4NJunk

-- MOD EDIT --
If you're angry and wish to rant about what you consider ignorance, that's one thing, but please don't let me see you insult my board as a whole agian. It makes me very unhappy.
-- END --

Anybody that says crossdrilled rotors makes a difference is FULL OF ****. Its a marketing gimmick that is over 30 years old. This is technology that your parents were using in the '70s when brake pads still had asbestos. It may look cool but thats were it ends.

think about it.....less material, less surface area=less heat retention and less heat dissipation. Plain as that. I've seen many cracked rotors. And don't tell me they are supposed to crack and that thats OK. You've got to be a moron to believe that a cracked rotor of any fashion is safe. Guess you haven't seen a collapsed rotor??? Get in a garage and get off your ******* computer.

Take what you want from this but for those of you looking for more performance remember this....Brakes don't stop a car, tires do!! If you want better brakes then get some hawks pads and do an LS1 brake swap. Dirt cheap and looks good to boot.

Lee7

-- MOD EDIT --
Lee7, :nono: I don't care what your beef with No4NJunk is. Take it elsewhere.

Anyone else want to have a shot at this? The thread's fast heading for a lock...

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

Last I checked and did any calculations (5 minutes ago?) holes and slots cut into metal would create more surface area. Do your convective heat transfer equations again.

Granted, good tires are helpful in stopping...but I certainly wouldn't want to rely on rolling friction of my tires to slow my car down in time to stop. Nor would i want anything rubbing on my tires to stop my car. Good brakes are worth the investment.


edit: not trying to pick a fight or argue...just my thoughts on brakes

No4NJunk

I'll give you that, but what about loss of mass and heat retention?? Not sure if surface area in camfer and inside holes would be as effective.

Very good and thats why I recommended going with larger brakes. Tires are a large factor though. Good brakes aren't **** without decent tires. They're only going to lock up faster.

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

As a note to, rotors are made larger to drop the actual temperature at the surface. They don't want to retain the heat, they want to dissipate it away from the pad rotor surface. That is done by either dissipating the heat generated into a larger mass or else by dissipating it into the air. Larger rotors or rotors with fancy holes or slots are attempting to accomplish the same goal. The ones with fancy holes or slots are just trying to do it with a lighter weight.

It's a give and take on both sides for larger as opposed to cross drilled and slotted. Both have advantages, one more mass to absorb more and dissipate is slowly, the other, less mass to absorb less and dissipate faster. The end result for properly designed rotors is the same temperature. Some of both types of rotors don't manage to do that well.

F585

I want a shot! I'm trying to finish this concept drawing of TomP's idea before it does get locked!

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

F585
I certainly like that idea best of all. Some ducting to force some extra air past there with the stock brake system, or even an upgraded one. I'd imagine that any type of tubing would work well, but you'd want to have as few bends in it as possible to reduce the amount of loss in air speed and flow, but at the same time keep the rain out.

F585

That's my pot head concept lol if you can cut into your fender wells (wich is what I want to do) without hurting the frame you can run it straight from your hood via a flexible tube and you can disconnect it if it's raining out. this is the first thing that came to my mind tommorow I'm puting my car up and I'll see if there is a better way to run the tubing and I'll figure out how to do the rear (I already have an idea) but, I'm imagining this on my car it's not a looker like some other 3rd gens it's just a project car so I don't care how it looks even though I think this would look sick and it gives me a reason to put hood scoops on my hood anyway, wendsday I go back to work (OSH) I'll snag some pics of tubing and see what I can use. For the tube that goes from the hood to the supercharger I was thinking of a vaccum hose or something like that anyway that's my pot head concept have a laugh.

Edit: Come to think of it you don't need to cut into your fenderwells.

89' RS/blue

speakin of brakes i just picked up a 89 1LE camaro disc brake rear end for my RS, its nice. Also it came with cross drilled rotors on it and new pads, plus the gears are perfect, all for $240.

Gumby

Has anyone ever driven anything with a drive shaft break???

Now it only works well on a stick but man do they stop. Buddy had an old dump truck and even with a good brake system I used the hand lever for the shaft brake more often than not. It was full manual, just a lever hook to some pad and the harder you pull the harder you stopped but that one drive shaft brake would stop that sucker on a dime.


-----------

Not sure how many here would install a hood scoop just to cool the brakes. Use that for a ram air and cool the brakes another way.


http://www.quickcarracingproducts.co..._bumpduct.html

TomP

The idea would be to aim the tubing at the "accessible" part of the rotor- the inside face. The tubing will have to either pivot with the strut, or, you could make it so that the tubing is fixed to the car (and possibly notched to avoid hitting the rotor when the steering is at full left/right lock) and aimed straight at the rotor. This would cool the brakes the best when you're going straight, which is probably what we want anyway! (Who slams on the brakes during a high speed turn? Not me!)

Those are some cool scoops... looks like they could be mounted even with the front bumper, without having to cut the bumper up.

TomP

WOW! Here's a fantastic step-by-step picture set of one guy's homegrown setup on his 4th gen. And apparently from what he said, the Home Depot Plastic Pipe systems melt. Oops.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jonaa/Brakeducts.html