Gumby

So how thick would be the popular choice foro ur V6???

Gonna make me some spacers out of "CE Phenolic Sheet" for my car.

stuff cost about the same as gold but I don't need that much. Ive looked around ebay and they make em different thickness for each car.

1 in - 1/8 in sheet can be had but the price goes up fast.

I guess space can be a problem but a 1in spacer would fit under our hood. [will need longer bolts] But that is kind of thick. One auction have numbers of 79*f difference using a 1/2 in spacer.

6SPEED84Z28

iTrader: (1)

i would try to do 1 inch spacers as long as there are no other issues with fit. i have been looking at doing this for a while out of aluminum, wood or other for a while just to straighten out the air around the sharp turn. i will be rather curious about your results.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

1" will fit. Just check EGR tube for enough movement for it.

If you 're gonna do a kit, inclusd hardware & 2 base gaskets. I'm pretty sure an all in one kit will be more popular than "Yeah it's the spacer, but you also need to get on you own ___, ___ & ___".

Dale

iTrader: (12)

if your just trying to use it to prevent heat transfer, you dont need more then 1/8"

The S/C phenolic spacer for the GTP supercharger is 1/4", and they say its way more then enough.

If you would, pm me where you get it from, I would like to get some myself for the same reason.

FbodTrek

If at the base, wouldn't that extra inch affect torque curves a bit??? I'm all for reducing heat though, I'd be interested in a 1"
"kit". Supply some good quality stainless allen head bolts....

Gumby

So far only one place has prices listed and for a 3x4 sheet .125 1/8 in thick piece is almost $60 $4.81 a square foot. And it goes up steeply from there.

1in thick is $38.46 a square foot. $462 for a 3x4 sheet.

1/2 in $231 3x4 sheet

1/4 $116 3x4 sheet

I am gonna try and find a local supply if possible. When searching CE Phenolic I find allot of hobby rocket sites. Might be a lead in there.

Just gotta make sure its the CE and not the C.

6SPEED84Z28

iTrader: (1)

1 inch won't affect torque curve that much. maybe it will lower it a little bit. but hopefully by making that sharp turn less it will make more horsepower too at higher rpm's

Gumby

Plywood would work very well. But the cheese factor goes up big time with it. I know back in the day drag races used it cause it was the best. You just had to change them every few rounds as they soaked up gas. [ not legal anymore]

I could do it out of aluminum and then ceramic coat them and lose most of the heat transfer but its still not the best.

But then again smoothing out the turns might be worth it, with any product.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

If teh car is running properly, there SHOULDN'T be any fuel getting on the wood spacer.

just looked at the 3.4,.......how would you compensate for the fuel rail & injector incdistance increase from base manifold?

Gumby

Now come on, your miss reading what I said.

"back in the day" they use plywood spacers but changed them every 1-2 runs from being gas soaked.


I never said they would get gas soaked on our V6.


plywood spacers should be easy enough for anyone to make.
But you would need to find a proper torque setting as not to crush the wood and get each side "even"

With wood you could tighten them flat if the bolt never bottomed out.

Gumby

not sure what you mean about the 3.4, but its ok. I only own a 2.8

Project: 85 2.8 bird

fuel rail sits on middle plenum.
injectors sit in fuel rail & base manifold.
If middle plenum is raised X" from base manifold due to spacer, how would bottom of injector maintain seal if also moved X" away from base manifold ?


edit: about the 3.4..........I have the 85 induction from the 2.8 mounted to it

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Project, hes talking about putting between the middle and upper piece, not between bottom and middle, which would be more ideal to cut heat.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Gumby

If 1/8 is enough that should fit on the bottom with not much issue. If I ever got it torn down that much I would recommend ceramic coating the gasket surfaces and inside. Powder coat the out side.

ceramic breaks the thermal bond, powder make a better than bare metal thermal bond. But on the upper plenum a spacer is needed. Maybe a TB spacer too. Move it out n inch for a tit of more volume.

I am gonna do just the top first. Its to cold out to do any more than that with out a garage. Not till it gets a tad warmer.

I really have enough on my plate. But would consider making a few extra sets if it was cheaper in the long run. All I do right now is make a some out of date parts and coat stuff for just Yamaha Virago's and that takes up all my time. But with powder and ceramic coating I do have a 20-30 mins or so while stuff bakes that I usually play online but need to start treating my self to some toys.

I'm getting a 5 amp roto zip like drill for my B day and been itching to start coating my engine parts. Done this crap almost two years and haven't done much of anything for myself. coated my center caps supper mirror black n that has been it for my 3rd gen.

FbodTrek

You lost me somewhere......I thought he was talking either side of the upper runners???? I kinda firured it wouldn't work on the intake to plenum seal. The injectors wouldn't fit right. Might not be too big an issue with a 1/8 thick on that seal though??? Doing a middle plenum seal out of aluminum with some venting or holes for coolant or c02/ or freon.....Sounds like it would be interesting to work up.... I smell a pet project....

Gumby

If you want to do aluminum check out this ebay item number

2588840636

Its the best deal on it.

6061 Aluminum Bar 1" x 3" x 24"

$18.99 - buy it now $22.99 shipping $7-10 bucks.

$30 a side plus labor.

TechSmurf

I have to say I'd be more concerned about getting those ugly bends smoothed out a little bit than with heat transfer.. if you could figure out how to optimize a 3x4 sheet though, you might be able to get a pretty good return on it. I'd suggest doing it with plywood or a 1x2 first, however, and seeing what kind of gains can be had. I'm not busting out a tape measure, but I think our intakes would need about 2"x1' of spacer per side.. 4"x1' per car.. 3 cars per square foot... 36 cars per 3x4 of phenolic.. not too bad.. but, as I said, I'm not busting out a tape measure. could be 3"x1' per side or 3"x1.5' per side, and cost increases steeply.. $60-80/kit shipped is fairly realistic, though, and with the amount of material involved makes you wonder about the profit margins on the aftermarket phenolic TB spacers...

For the record, though, nifty freakin idea.

Gumby

True that....
I may try n pick up something cheap just to try it and see how much waste is created from making it. Gotta find the longer bolts too.

$60-80 sound high but when you look and see single spacers going for $30+ I guess it make sense for two and hardware but I like to make things cheap. The few parts I make for the Virago If I can't do them at half off catalog price, I don't do it.

On Ebay there is some
1" copolymer (polypropolene)plastic sheet
Item number: 2589219939

going for $10 but after looking it up, its only rated to about 78f.

Blue1989RS

hey gumbs, where you working at? We use that phenolic stuff for equipment loads. I've been waiting for some "scrap" *cough cough* to show up. I do have some 1/8" stuff at home though. Well....it might be glasstic. I'll look it up for you. Glasstic works well too, and its more workable.

You might have troubles cutting the phenolic. Keep that in mind. I know that the manufacturers that we buy from have some super tools to make the parts we need.

Gumby

"CE Phenolic can be fabricated using standard machine tools and it is among the easiest to machine of all the thermosetting industrial laminated plastics. "

Sure your using CE???

Has to be CE, well I want CE so it just like what GM would of used.

Blue1989RS

Hmm...well there sure does seem to be alot of Phenolic stuff running amuck. I'm actually trying to find a phenolic that meet Rodgers Engineering T45HT specs.

http://www.rodgersengineering.com/se...ail.lasso?id=5

What is the "CE" phenolic?

Have you looked at Vulcanized Fibre? It seems to have the same tensil strengths that phenolic does and its 1/3 the price. At least for my application at work. The only thing is Fibre has a higher water absorbtion percentage.

http://www.oliner.com/Vulcanex/Index2.htm

Since it is only being used as a heat barrier, I'm sure that there are a bunch of materials out there that can be used. Like Glastic

http://www.glastic.com/fsl.htm

But I'm kinda new to this materials thing, I'm an EE

Gumby

Had a revelation in another thread. Anyone who like the spacer idea may not be able to use a fancy 3 point cowl strut tower brace.

I wonder how much room there is with most of them???

Mine is in front of the engine not over it, so I'm OK.