Engine swap started
#1
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Engine swap #2 started
yes, tech stuff is involved
The beginning of swap #2
still haven't gotten the mounts problem down, but will get some insight when I test fit the 3800.
The beginning of swap #2
still haven't gotten the mounts problem down, but will get some insight when I test fit the 3800.
Last edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird; 12-11-2003 at 08:17 PM.
#2
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Car: 91 Camaro
Engine: 3.1...not hardly stock
Transmission: 700r4....not stock either
Axle/Gears: 3.73
if i'm understanding correctly, you're gonna put a 3800 in a thirdgen? more power to ya man! have fun with it and good luck. I wanna see it when you get it done!
#3
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
you understand correctly. I have seen pics of it done in an 84 Camaro, but I've yet to here from that person to get some of the more problems/obsticles involved w/the swap.
#5
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Originally posted by AM91Camaro_RS
what are you going to do with the 3.4?
what are you going to do with the 3.4?
#6
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
I have talked to him about the 3.4, but lack of money and way to get it to me kills the subject
Project, let me know if you need any assitance thru pm or email, I'll do my best.
Project, let me know if you need any assitance thru pm or email, I'll do my best.
#7
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Car: Base Firebird
Engine: TPI 350
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: D44
wow, that'll be cool. those 3800's run like high 15's in the quarter, right? best of luck with this swap.... i'm very interested in seeing the finished product. hope to be hearing good stuff about it in the future!
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#8
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
#9
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Other then the air intake passage, I like how it looks.
If I can stick all that wiring from a 3.4 in my truck, you can get all that wiring for that beast in your car!
If I can stick all that wiring from a 3.4 in my truck, you can get all that wiring for that beast in your car!
#11
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May the sparks fly high in your fabrications!
In whole scheme of things, once past the motor mounts/tranny mount location, you shouldn't have a bit of trouble. Do the exhaust manifolds exit correctly? Any underside obstructions?
In whole scheme of things, once past the motor mounts/tranny mount location, you shouldn't have a bit of trouble. Do the exhaust manifolds exit correctly? Any underside obstructions?
#12
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
I got a lead on an exhaust shop that's been doing some good work(custom y-pipes) for the lt/ls 1 boys in the area. Gonna check it out.
no work tonight as I've finally gotten well enough to clean up the house after a week of being sick along w/rest of family.
no work tonight as I've finally gotten well enough to clean up the house after a week of being sick along w/rest of family.
#13
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Car: Base Firebird
Engine: TPI 350
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: D44
in a 3rd gen that should be a high 14 second car no problem
#15
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
My GPGT ran a best of 15.5@88, and weighs more than 4th gen V6 birds, and has approx 3.23 gears. Our cars weigh less than the 4th gens (mostly) and have 3.42 gearing. should be interesting :rockon:
Some 4th gen timeslips
Some 4th gen timeslips
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Car: 1988 Chevy Camaro Hardtop
Engine: Turbocharged/Intercooled 3.1
Transmission: World Class T5 5 Speed
What is it... 200hp?
Like 40hp more than the 3.4, stock
So you figure, more power, less weight, and better gearing.
Yeah, sounds good to me, too
Like 40hp more than the 3.4, stock
So you figure, more power, less weight, and better gearing.
Yeah, sounds good to me, too
#18
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Power Steering Pressure Switch, and a search that actually worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This will help keep the engine bay clean, as it looks like I wont be needing it. I have the engine 100% disconnected from the wireharnesses. And 3 plastic bags containing disconnected wire harnesses. The 3 relays by the brake booster are off, & I have segregated teh firewall harness into 2 parts, those wires that still need to be in the bay (wiper, brown wire from alt to gauge, etc) and 90% of teh starter wires) Gonna have to compare schematics to splice correct 85 wire leads to 95 wires. The pass side has 2 big harnesses. I will most likely have to disconnect the ecm plugs & see about passing them thru the fender (also gives me excuse to replace crapped out heater core ).
Pics:
Drivers side:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_190_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_191_full.jpg
Pass Side:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_193_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_194_full.jpg
This will help keep the engine bay clean, as it looks like I wont be needing it. I have the engine 100% disconnected from the wireharnesses. And 3 plastic bags containing disconnected wire harnesses. The 3 relays by the brake booster are off, & I have segregated teh firewall harness into 2 parts, those wires that still need to be in the bay (wiper, brown wire from alt to gauge, etc) and 90% of teh starter wires) Gonna have to compare schematics to splice correct 85 wire leads to 95 wires. The pass side has 2 big harnesses. I will most likely have to disconnect the ecm plugs & see about passing them thru the fender (also gives me excuse to replace crapped out heater core ).
Pics:
Drivers side:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_190_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_191_full.jpg
Pass Side:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_193_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_194_full.jpg
Last edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird; 12-29-2003 at 06:29 PM.
#20
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Old tranny out
Factory sticker still on tranny after all these years
More indepth A/C delete procedures
The things you use to keep engine from tilting back too far
edit: 4L60E in!!!!!!!!!!! That thing owned me big time, took about 2hrs to get it high enough to put the cross member on. I was able to restrain my self from adding about $457.00 to the cuss jar by keeping it all inside. Gonna take a break from the engine swap & see about getting to the heater core & yanking the ecm harnesses.
edit 2: The shifter linkage on the 700-4R, that is connected to the tranny, needs to be swapped to teh 4L60E. THey have different connectors, but the cable bracket goes on the same place.
Factory sticker still on tranny after all these years
More indepth A/C delete procedures
The things you use to keep engine from tilting back too far
edit: 4L60E in!!!!!!!!!!! That thing owned me big time, took about 2hrs to get it high enough to put the cross member on. I was able to restrain my self from adding about $457.00 to the cuss jar by keeping it all inside. Gonna take a break from the engine swap & see about getting to the heater core & yanking the ecm harnesses.
edit 2: The shifter linkage on the 700-4R, that is connected to the tranny, needs to be swapped to teh 4L60E. THey have different connectors, but the cable bracket goes on the same place.
Last edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird; 12-14-2003 at 12:05 AM.
#21
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Car: Base Firebird
Engine: TPI 350
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: D44
i have heard that the 4l60e is like a newer version of the 700r4.... would u happen to know if that is true? did u use the stock crossmember, or did u need to fab up something?
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Car: None! =(
Engine: My own two feet.
Transmission: My, uh.. Knees?
Woo, keep up the good work! Now I'm entertaining fantasies of doing the same to my car.. Though perhaps I should learn how to merely get the 2.8 running as it should first, heh.
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Car: 91 Camaro
Engine: 3.1...not hardly stock
Transmission: 700r4....not stock either
Axle/Gears: 3.73
yea, the 4l60e is an electronically controlled tranny. i believe its about the same as a 700r4. my dad's s10 has the 4l60e. its stock and will shift rather firmly. he's got 3.73s in an otherwise stock rearend and it will chirp hard hittin second.
#25
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
I used teh stock crossmember in the same location. Also am using teh poly tranny mount bushing. Appearantly, the mounts in the 4th gen cars are slightly different, as they need to notch their crossmember a little to let the poly mounts go on correctly.
Removing the ecm harness wasn't as much trouble as I thought. I just now need to buy some of those plastic plug/keepers to keep teh rear innner fenderwall in place. I do now have a nice place to rout the 3800 harness wires that go into the cabin. ALso have removes about 80% of teh A/C assembly. Dam that thing was weak. Like halfas s fiberglass/plastic. I'm gonna get some sheet metal & seal off the opening, and get some more of thatfiberglass repair kit stuff and seal off the squirrel cage.
Lots, I mean LOTS more room in the bay w/o that A/C stuff.
Removing the ecm harness wasn't as much trouble as I thought. I just now need to buy some of those plastic plug/keepers to keep teh rear innner fenderwall in place. I do now have a nice place to rout the 3800 harness wires that go into the cabin. ALso have removes about 80% of teh A/C assembly. Dam that thing was weak. Like halfas s fiberglass/plastic. I'm gonna get some sheet metal & seal off the opening, and get some more of thatfiberglass repair kit stuff and seal off the squirrel cage.
Lots, I mean LOTS more room in the bay w/o that A/C stuff.
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Car: '92 Firebird
Engine: 3.1 Liter v6
Transmission: 700r4 w/shift kit
you said that the 3800 comes with the 4l60e...wouldnt it be nice to upgrade to the 4l65e...just a thought if you have the cash...there was an article about the comparison of the 2 4l6x motors in one of my car magazines...the 4l65e has a lot stronger parts...and a lot better gearing...
#27
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
I'd have to research moreon the bellhousing bolt pattern, but the current tranny should be plenty strong for current motor. Although I will keep it in mind fir future "blown" modifications
#28
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Car: Base Firebird
Engine: TPI 350
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: D44
what cars does the 4L65 come in? i mean, the 4L60 backs ls1's... dontcha think it wouldnt have any problem with the 3800?
.... enlighten me about the 4L65....
.... enlighten me about the 4L65....
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Car: '92 Firebird
Engine: 3.1 Liter v6
Transmission: 700r4 w/shift kit
in my magizine that spoke of the 4l65e...they stated that it was a new performance tranny...i dont believe it comes in any vehicles yet...but i dont know a lot about the newer vehicle models...i'll have to dig up the magizine...then i can post more info on it...
#30
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Info on teh 4L60E/65E
back on topic, I haven't done much on the car this past week. WOrk is a bytch, and got a new computer (Dell Dimension 2400 2.4ghz, still using the PII 400 though ). I belive in late Dec/Jan I'm going to pull the 3.4 and see about fitting the 3800 in, depends on funds & availability of cherry picker (if it will even fit in the garage )
back on topic, I haven't done much on the car this past week. WOrk is a bytch, and got a new computer (Dell Dimension 2400 2.4ghz, still using the PII 400 though ). I belive in late Dec/Jan I'm going to pull the 3.4 and see about fitting the 3800 in, depends on funds & availability of cherry picker (if it will even fit in the garage )
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BITCHIN' PRESENT TO YOURSELF!!!!
Are the two tranny's the same length?
I'll bet the 3800 is also a longer engine, watch out for front underhood clearence.
Are the two tranny's the same length?
I'll bet the 3800 is also a longer engine, watch out for front underhood clearence.
#32
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
The guy I spoke to who assisted in some of my ideas on my truck swap, installed a full L32 with 4l60, everything bolted up to STOCK s10 mounts, even used stock driveshaft.
So trannys should be same, fit fine.
Engine will stick out front more, hood clearence will be the issue.
If I get a small discount, and no work at work, I would come help
Still have the "lack of truck" problem too Think a 3.4 would fit in the back seat of a camaro?
So trannys should be same, fit fine.
Engine will stick out front more, hood clearence will be the issue.
If I get a small discount, and no work at work, I would come help
Still have the "lack of truck" problem too Think a 3.4 would fit in the back seat of a camaro?
#33
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Hood clearence.
edit: I looked at the pics of that 84 Camaro again. I beleive that the alt is far enough back in the engine bay tnot to have any hood clearence issues. If a wanted a STB however.................
edit: I looked at the pics of that 84 Camaro again. I beleive that the alt is far enough back in the engine bay tnot to have any hood clearence issues. If a wanted a STB however.................
Last edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird; 12-18-2003 at 03:36 PM.
#34
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
#35
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3.4s fit SO EASY in the back of a F Body!
I know!
So the back lid doesn't close all way.
I guess I'm glad I mentioned the hood clearence issue NOW!
Simple solution really!
Look under hood of 3rd Gen 20th Trans Am, see whatever they did & dupe it!
Second is as easy, too.
Look under hood of 4th Gen, see how they compensate for front engine clearence & dupe that, too.
The front of the 3800 Fuel Injection unit will be "nose down" IF I am correct, already.
PS REALIZE this swap may be a better Camaro swap project due to hood line!
You'll keep us informed! Hope I offered good clues.
PSS Firebird got the 3800 engine, not the Camaro, so it can be done, too!
I know!
So the back lid doesn't close all way.
I guess I'm glad I mentioned the hood clearence issue NOW!
Simple solution really!
Look under hood of 3rd Gen 20th Trans Am, see whatever they did & dupe it!
Second is as easy, too.
Look under hood of 4th Gen, see how they compensate for front engine clearence & dupe that, too.
The front of the 3800 Fuel Injection unit will be "nose down" IF I am correct, already.
PS REALIZE this swap may be a better Camaro swap project due to hood line!
You'll keep us informed! Hope I offered good clues.
PSS Firebird got the 3800 engine, not the Camaro, so it can be done, too!
#36
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Hoist Pic 1
Hoist Pic 2
Just need to drain coolant, remove motor mount bolts, lift & remove
( provided ceiling doesn't crash , but I'm sure it wont )
Hoist Pic 2
Just need to drain coolant, remove motor mount bolts, lift & remove
( provided ceiling doesn't crash , but I'm sure it wont )
#37
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Nail 2 more 2x4s up on the sides of that hole in roof.
Ked, kinda hard to drive 680 miles back with an open hatch.
I dont have a back seat right now either Been to cheap/lazy to get another can of cleaner to clean them.
Bla, added weight I dont need
Ked, kinda hard to drive 680 miles back with an open hatch.
I dont have a back seat right now either Been to cheap/lazy to get another can of cleaner to clean them.
Bla, added weight I dont need
#38
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
THe pipe it's attached to is resting on 4 beams, all near truss supports/joints.
#40
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I've driven in 25 degree weather with a convertible top down.
Good defroster helps! AND top was too cold to raise & stretch fabric w/o ripping top
Put on more clothes!
Ya getting a screaming deal!!!
Good defroster helps! AND top was too cold to raise & stretch fabric w/o ripping top
Put on more clothes!
Ya getting a screaming deal!!!
#41
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Bu YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
Polymount transferred & in place
Mr. Speedo Cable, meet Mr. VSS
Shifter Linkage
Ready to pull, drivers side
Ready to pull, front/pass side
Able to leap tall buildings......
Empty, once again
3800 brackets on 2.8 mounts, something aint right here
edit: pipe, hoist, chain cost less than $100 :rockon:
Mr. Speedo Cable, meet Mr. VSS
Shifter Linkage
Ready to pull, drivers side
Ready to pull, front/pass side
Able to leap tall buildings......
Empty, once again
3800 brackets on 2.8 mounts, something aint right here
edit: pipe, hoist, chain cost less than $100 :rockon:
Last edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird; 12-24-2003 at 01:45 PM.
#42
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Engine bay cleanup is coming along good, pics soon.
Also some notes for everyone:
1. THe wire harness on by the brake power booster goes to the fuse block, and will allow to play car radio while doing maint w/the two wires that go to the starter hooked up to the POS(+) battery cable. Vise Grips do this nicely
2. Keep the relay block & spring do-hickey from the a/c unit, as the squirrel cage will not rotate w/o these (going to find a place to mount the springs safely out of the way.
3. The motor brackets, when put beside each other, are like compairing a harley to a huffy. Yeah, they each have the round things for the bolt to go thru, but you'll see when pics are up.
4. You really wont belive how much crud gathers on the bottom of the K-member until the engine's gone
Also some notes for everyone:
1. THe wire harness on by the brake power booster goes to the fuse block, and will allow to play car radio while doing maint w/the two wires that go to the starter hooked up to the POS(+) battery cable. Vise Grips do this nicely
2. Keep the relay block & spring do-hickey from the a/c unit, as the squirrel cage will not rotate w/o these (going to find a place to mount the springs safely out of the way.
3. The motor brackets, when put beside each other, are like compairing a harley to a huffy. Yeah, they each have the round things for the bolt to go thru, but you'll see when pics are up.
4. You really wont belive how much crud gathers on the bottom of the K-member until the engine's gone
#43
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Cleaned up drivers side
Cleaned up passenger side
Cleaned up firewall
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and, FYI
just a test fit, those brackets are gonna be a butch to get done
Cleaned up passenger side
Cleaned up firewall
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and, FYI
just a test fit, those brackets are gonna be a butch to get done
Last edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird; 12-29-2003 at 02:15 AM.
#45
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WHAT A GREAT JOB YOU HAVE DONE!
A friend recently installed a Chevy V* into a 1950 Ford Bullet Nose Business coupe.
He used boxed frame stock for the mounts.
A Clue?
You look good at the nose of the FI unit for hood clearence (SO FAR!)
A friend recently installed a Chevy V* into a 1950 Ford Bullet Nose Business coupe.
He used boxed frame stock for the mounts.
A Clue?
You look good at the nose of the FI unit for hood clearence (SO FAR!)
#47
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
I'm sort of looking for tubular manifolds from 99+ F-bodies, as those are almost just as good as headers, and also looking for a deal on an aftermarket cam, as it is easier to install before putting engine in the car. The alt looks good for clearance, but I will say this, If it had the straight tb, and not angled down, there would've been serious issues.
#48
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
I actuall yhave a lead on the 00+ manifolds, not 99, but anyway, some neato pics of swap so far ( takin gsome time off, had toair garage out of paint fumes last few days,
Before:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_181_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_182_full.jpg
and now (no clear cote on paint yet, so not as shiny):
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_217_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_218_full.jpg
Yes, that is correct Pontiac blue (on the Buick motor )
edit: One more
Before:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_181_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_182_full.jpg
and now (no clear cote on paint yet, so not as shiny):
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_217_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_218_full.jpg
Yes, that is correct Pontiac blue (on the Buick motor )
edit: One more
Last edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird; 01-13-2004 at 06:31 PM.
#50
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
OK, broke down & did some mechanical work tonight. I was able to get 3 bellhousing bolts connected to block, & have front of oil pan resting on about 3/8" scrap of board on k-member (just enough not to crush that brake line going across. The engine looks to actually be sitting lower than the 3.4 did, definately will not hae any hood issues. STB looks feasable also, 2pt for what I have in mind. Pics later, gotta give camera rest, tired of taking so many pics of same car .
Noticed that car is riding higher in fron t than before, making me think that the springs have seated properly & I wont have that clearance problem like before w/the t-pipe hanging down.
edit: Last pics for a while, gotta study for promotion,
Front shot for clearance
Side shot for hood clearance. Good thing it does have the angled throttle body
Noticed that car is riding higher in fron t than before, making me think that the springs have seated properly & I wont have that clearance problem like before w/the t-pipe hanging down.
edit: Last pics for a while, gotta study for promotion,
Front shot for clearance
Side shot for hood clearance. Good thing it does have the angled throttle body
Last edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird; 01-15-2004 at 07:03 PM.