camaro_junkie

You know that link to a video that someone posted a while back with the guys boosting the Eclipse in some bizarre way that blew the block apart? Well if this was a movie, it would be funny. But I pray that everything works out awesome for you Doward. Serioulsy, I'm praying to the Camaro gods that the turbo makes you put an indentation in the driver's seat on the first run, and many more after that. I would love to drive your car! Good luck.

F585

Amen

vortex

I know what you're referring to... and that kid was a git about it... he took a stock GSX ( i believe the same TD05 that we're using) and swapped it out for one that pushes 18 psi... on a stock motor... not to mention he was bouncing it off the rev limiter trying to beat an M5 that wasnt racing... We plan on keeping the boost to 6-7 psi.. but, when we get a little more ballsy... (30 minutes after its set) we will slowly bump it up more... lol.

Cold Dark Shado

Bad FN a$$ man, Way to go!!! :rockon:

Doward

I'd just like to say....

to all that have talked the talk, before me...

Come join me on a stroll, as I walk the walk

Heading over to work on the oil leak now! Then sleep... then another 16hrs of work. Jeez....

IROC57TPI

Wow! Thats all I can say

U better be dressed up like the bomb squad when that thing goes into boost

Lee7

im walking... slowly but sureley.

took my block up to a machine shop today to get it bored .010 over, but there is a ridge on one of the cylinders that is not able to be removed with just boring it out 0.010, so i ordered a brand new block from www.gmpartsdirect.com

anyways, some of the goods:

Nixon1

Damn...I'm very impressed! I haven't seen this much straight-out *****-to-the-wall project doin in a LONG time! Keep it up gentlemen!

MDv6man

DAAAAAAMMMNNNN!!!!!! I run into computer problems, and then it gets interesting! Doward and Vortex -- I got to give you guys major props! I saw a turboed GTA at the Nats back in June and figured a turboed 60* V6 had to be possible. There is more space in the engine bay. Glad to see someone finally did it!

camaro_junkie

How does it run? Did you get a chance to fix the oil leak yet?

vortex

We took it for a short spin, and once the comp finally settled down (unplugged) it felt pretty good. no major driveability problems. of course we had the wastegate set to nothing, but could feel a little better movement... pushing the gas in 5th at 40 mph actually did something... however, the turbo oil feed, snapped and blew oil everywhere, so it cut the testing time.. we limped it home with very little oil, but we got it home and degreased it... we are working on a new design for that oil setup.. at least the feed. As soon as that gets settled, then we can blow the motor up with 18psi. Doward has worked all weekend, so I think monday, ill let him work on HIS car..
Just a little disheartening, but im not giving up.. I just didnt have the motivation to work on it today after something like that.... oh yeah, and the flooding doesnt help me want to leave the house.

~*Vortex*~

The_Raven

Just curious, what size drain back line are you using? It should be at least 5/8" in diameter and have a pretty direct, gravity feed back to the pan, if the drain back is small, it may be that the oil froth that is created is not draining back and excess pressure is making the line blow off, just a thought.

socialdeviant

And just how much were those rods and pistons.

and some part numbers... Summit techs' are idiots... jeg's is no better.

Lee7

$458.14 for pistons.

rings were $101.28 and the pinfit was $20. (or else i would have to take the pins to a machine shop and have them fit)

Connecting rods were $337.50

socialdeviant

part numbers? and what comp ratio are those...

Lee7

the pistons are custom 8.3:1 cr, so they wont have a part number.

But i belive that if you call up Ross, and give them the "job card number" which is 78053 (on the bottom of all the pistons) then can make them for you.

for the Crower connecting rods, the part number is SP93211B

funstick

doward and vortex. please walk before you run. take it slow and make sure to keep out a keen ear for detonation. i tried my best to figure out the timing curve etc for the motor but carefully monitor things. id would be good to use a wideband but in a pinch even a basic A/F gauge would be better then nothing. so pay attention due some plug cuts makes sure everything is happy. i did my best now do yours. with a bit of data logging info im sure we can iron out any of the bugs that may pop up.

sincerly
sean

Project: 85 2.8 bird

A/F gauge, & a knock sensor. Not sure where to mount it on the 2.8 block, but on the 3.4s it sits right behind the pass side motor mount bracket.

The_Raven

On the 2.8L block, there is a coolant drain plug just by the starter that the KS can be installed in, that's where mine currently sits.

Doward

Sean... a/f shouldn't be a problem (well, going lean shouldn't) since you set it for 19pph, and I'm running 22pph - should be slightly rich!

F585

Going to the track today Dow?

LinuxGuy

iTrader: (1)

Any news on the turbo project Doward? Have you guys increased the boost level at all from near-nothing (and fixed the oil line)?
Getting anxious.

vortex

Vortex here, doward is being tool...er store-bitch .

Just a teaser.... track tonight... and something along the lines of 6 p.......

Lee7

6psi, that should roughly be about a 60hp increase, plus the fact that its intercooled should be at least a 70hp increase.

vortex

Doward here....

ah.... no... not thinking THAT much increase. a solid 30-40 tho

So like... track and all... going... there..

Fixed this and that... TB coolant connection did not work for the turbo water cooling... battery is dead, and the intake in front of the turbo (air to filter to MAF to turbo) will need to be re-thought-out.

5 psi steady. Spikes to 7-8 with a quick, hard shift.

Dodge truck running mid 16s - walked. We'll see in a few hours what she runs.

Till then....

Got boost? :hail:


AFM HAS NO BS FLAG!! BUWAHAHAHA!

Y2KFirehawk

Good luck!! I can't wait to hear about the results!!!!

vortex

Great news! ....er... sort of.
Vortex Performance has the first Turbo 2.8 third gen F-bod in existance... at least any reported. The boost held perfectly at 6 psi and spiked into 7-8 with no probs.. so the engine will handle boost... And the best part... It hauled ***! right about 3 grand, the turbo took over and sucked the throttle from your feet and before you knew it, you were doing 90... in a 35 mph zone
Our first "test" was with the wastegate mostly open and we ran it against Brian "Tiger's" mid-high 16 Dodge Ram.. he got us on that, then we adjusted the WG about 2 turns and realized the tack welded slip fit exhaust that was butchered broke loose, so we took it and got it welded. The second run was on.. We pulled from it with me and doward in the camaro. That boost is wicked awesome.

Now for the discouraging news.. We were headed to the track when the car started bucking and stalling, finally it got to the point where it wouldn't stay running. When we pulled the ducting to the throttle body, we noticed a lot of oil in the tube and the TB... Hence led the believe that the 10 year old turbo finally blew a seal and was fouling the plugs.. With Gainesville out of the picture, we were gonna use the tow dolly to bring her home... yikes. It would not line up and scratched the fenders to hell. at one point slid back down and caught the drivers side fender and ripped it up. Just as we got it back and ready to move, the damn car slid forward and the unibody was sitting on the dolly.... so, using the jack from the Dodge, we jacked it up to try and get it off and the lovely car shifted and sent the jack plunging right thru the oil pan... 5 Qt's right there in the parking lot.. and the car was still wedged on, so my Brother ripped the damn car off with his 97 S10 4x4, and a tow truck brought it back to the shop... We were Soooooooo close!!! But we got a taste of it... and it CAN be done... And we will get it back.. but for now, heres some carnage pix.

oil in throttle body

where it caught on the fender coming back off

Doward as happy as can be..

Me breaking it more, and Doward giving the "Single Duce"

I have no F'in clue.

Doward and Tiger by his Dodge.

Doward and I right by the lovely 5qt stain on the pavement

Ripped off by my bro.

Lee7

wow, just wow...

you guys messed that camaro up!

Im glad to hear it worked, and when you guys get everything worked out im sure it will work even better.

the Stock 3.4 engine can handle up to 20psi, Tiago has a 4th gen running 20 psi on stock internals, which is amazing. GM built these engines strong.

But to be on the safe side, i would not recomend running 20psi of boost on the stock engine.

2_point8_boy

Wow is right. Too bad man. you guys should be able to get that thing up and running again in no time though. Just need a new turbo and oil pan. The turbo will obviously be the expensive part, but you should probably try to get one that's rebuilt at the very least. Good luck man...wish i could help.

Jeff

vortex

Nah, it wont be too expensive.. $75 for a 16B upgrade compressor impeller and all new seals & Gaskets.. not too bad for a free turbo... and it will ease our minds knowing a 10 year old turbo is revamped. As for the oil pan, yeah that pisses me off cuz My masterpiece of tapping into the oil pan without stripping it or having it leak is now ruined... This seriously blows goats... but the bright side being The turbo kit is complete.. we'd just like to have track times and dyno pulls for you all, especially those who would like to have their own Vortex Performance Type R stickers.... er... Turbo Kits!

2_point8_boy

if it's any consolation...at least you didn't blow the rings. I don't know what the "rebuild" state of the motor is, but that would've been bad.

vortex

or the welds on the intake... LOL

Yeah, I think the motor should be massaged over, but we wanted to bring it to light that it can be done on a vehicle that now has approx. 75K miles.. and still be safe. Doward wants to pick up some heads and intake (boneyard specials) for cheap and port em and swap them over... Now that we've proved that Project: "Boosted Stock & Born To Rock" is successful, I think it would be good measure to just rebuild it... bearings etc.. Since we have no idea what the first owner did to it... or if that piston jack F'ed something up along the crank/ pickup lines. Im sure bearings would help a lot. regardless.

Cold Dark Shado

Damn man, when it rains it poors huh, Atleast your doin it and gettin it done, keep up the awsome work!!!


just dont kill yourselfs in the process

2_point8_boy

yeah, i was gonna post somthing up about the jack hitting the crank or something, but I thought you would've already thought of that too.

The_Raven

Damn, sorry to hear about you woes, but things are bound to happen right?

Sounds like you guys are looking on the brighter side.

On the other note:

Isn't boost fun?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

damn, at least yo got in a run before the carnage

you gonna add an erl cooler to the final product? If yo can stomach it, lets see some pics of the late erl pan.

Godd job yall!!

IROC57TPI

I give you guys an A+ for effort. You really worked hard trying to make this work... Only thing is that its a cobbled up mess that is unreliable, ugly, and potentially dangerous. I understand it was done on the cheap, but man I think i've seen it all now

If you guys put as much though into this project as you have effort I think with some careful planning and the right parts and a welder on hand you could have a masterpiece. I do understand that this is just a rough draft-so to speak however you guys really shouldn't encourange these guys on the board to do what you're doing. I wouldn't sell them this set-up either unless you want the liability that comes with it.

Just my $.02 not that it matters

Lee7

lol, they are doing this project on a very small budget, IIRC Doward was trying to keep it below 200$ and have a working turbo setup.

Well, they did what they were trying to do, it works and was definatly cheap!

This is a VERY VERY rough draft, and i doubt they would ever sell anything that uses PVC piping and JBWeld to hold on oil fittings.

Doward did alot of carefull planning, i can vouch for that. In his first thread entitled "Turbo Chronicles" you can see most of the planning he did. (he pre planned all of his exuast piping with pvc, planned layouts, etc)

But there isnt very much you can do on a tight budget... and i think they did a very exelent job givin what they had to work with. I am sure thier 2nd atempt will be much better, and actually look like a Beta Prototype worthy of selling to the public.

But so far, they are the 1st Turbocharged 2.8L 3rd Gen V6 known, which is pretty cool IMO.

Now when i get done with my setup, i will be the most powerfull Turbocharged 3rd Gen V6 known.

F585

I am interested in what kind of setup your going to have could you PM me and tell me about it?

IROC57TPI

Well actually the 1st 2.8t was that Daston 510 or whatever it was... Im sure someone has the link... Dean?

As far as these guys are concerned... Like I said they did an excellent job for the budget allowed. They worked hard on it and it worked. Now if they could improve upon it and make it reliable and safe then they will have something big on their hands.

Hopefully all goes well and they get the bugs worked out.
I want to see some timeslips and some wideband O2 readings...maybe some dyno numbers?

Lee7

the Twin Turbo Datson engine was not in a 3rd gen tho

Lee7

Ehh, its just basically a single turbo setup. (T04B)

Origionally it was going to be a twin turbo setup using T25's for quick spool up, but they stop making boost at around 16 psi. So i decided to use one Medium sized T04B which will spin up at around 3000rpm and be able to make boost well in excess of 20psi.

Other than being just a basic Turbo setup, my whole engine is being rebuilt with stronger and lighter parts to handle 20+ PSI of boost.

So far i have the 8.3:1 Forged Pistons, 6" Forged Connecting rods, BRAND NEW 2.8L Block, Ported Heads, Ported Intake, Crane H-260-2 Cam, Summit Roller Rockers, Eldebrock valve covers, Hi-Volume oil pump modded to deliver more than 80PSI (yes 80PSI) of oil pressure, ARP Main Studs, and the Turbo should be in Today.

All the boost, ignition and fuel will be handled thru an Electromotives TEC3 programmable ECM, which is a big must in any engine running high boost.

The only part of the whole equasion i am having trouble finding is a strong crankshaft. I have seen the stock crankshaft handle over 330hp @ 6000 rpm, but that is not good enough for me. Im not going to let a 4000$ engine get ruined because of a cast crankshaft.

If worst comes to worst, i get a crank from like a 94 Grand Prix 3.4L and then have it Cryo treated for hardening.

F585

Man... How are you paying for this?!

Lee7

job

Overtime kicks ***, ive been working since i was 16, and i have always wanted a powerfull car but my parents would not let me have anything too powerfull. So i have been saving since then.

Now that i am 18, i can do anything i want with my money. After i get a nice *** car, i am hopeing to buy a nice 1 story house for my future family. (Consisting of no more than 1 kid, i hate kids! )

Also, i dont do drugs, smoke or drink heavily, like most people. Therefor i already get a $250+ advantage per month over most people.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I have a college degree, job, 3 cars, no drinking, no smoking, no drugs, and no living payment expense, but I still cant afford to all this. *sigh*

Nixon1

CONGRATULATIONS GUYS!! SORT OF!

You'll get her up and running soon enough....and whoop up on some unsuspecting prey....

vortex

How do you think we found out how to route the exhuast pipes? Make a PVC mock up, and get a stick of pipe bent to that... The exhaust is all metal.. The PVC is only the induction (which, by the way holds 290 psi) if we blow that, we did something wrong. It will be changed over (like the exhaust....again) to smooth mandrel bent metal tubing. And while not the prettiest prototype in the world (cuz im sure that Paxton or Turbo Dynamics have beautimous 1st designs) but it is functional..
Speaking as the fabricator of this project, I'll admit its not my best work, but until we can afford a Mig and a plasma cutter, I was using a 30 yr old arc welder and a circular saw with a metal blade.
As far as being unreliable, i think my first thought was "no sh*t" That is why it is a project, and has never been done before. Turbo companies don't see a point in making a kit for your little V6's because they won't make enough profit... They don't see that people want performance and good gas mileage with low insurance costs... I am far from being an arrogant person, but I can understand people not believing we could do it, but after we had a working prototype and the only fault that kept us from having track results was beyond our control, I think people should give us a little more credit.
All of the little things we tried to , i believe the proper term is "******* it" and save money didn't work, forcing us to do it the proper way. The pics posted a week ago was not the final product, but merely a progress report for those nay-sayers.
And, as the first people to do this, since all anybody can do is nitpick, even after we have it working, despite one setback, I think it really sucks that all some people can do is bitch about something im not sure they could ever accomplish.
Speaking as a Mustang guy (not a Ford guy, there is a diff.) I am proud to say I am working on a bowtie all in the names of performance, I want to make everything faster.. and i can handle a little negative critisism, but meanwhile, I give them the dreaded "Double Duce!"

So, now please inform a drag racer of the dangers of going faster.

Nixon1

That's what I say but nobody believes me!

TechSmurf

And heeere we go again! I got ahold of my 1/4" flange material.. heading up to tucson this weekend to mill out the passenger's side manifold flange, turbo inlet flange, downpipe flange, oil inlet flange (the oil inlet setup that the turbo came with was crimped/cut beyond recovery).. oil drain is okay. Hopefully will be able to find fittings for water in/out in tucson too. Still waiting on a wastegate, but things are looking up in that department.

The friend who owes me the wastegate finally got his civic running again. He's been facing gremlins the likes of which I'd never thought normal with his turbo setup. It's fast as hell when it's working.. for a civic, anyway. My 8 would lose. Horribly. I sniped him on the highway while he wasn't spooled and schooled him to all hell, but if we'd stayed on it till I hit 70/3rd gear, I'd have so lost. Hopefully the 6 will be able to hang with him.

Anyway.. she's going back up on ramps today.. current vague to-do list, remove passenger's side exhaust manifold, remove/relocate alternator, remove transmission for seals/replace, oil drain/route new oil plumbing/replace with 20w50...

And after feeling the power that got added to that civic.. (the first civic to push me back in my seat, which formerly ran 18.6 and did nothing of the sort.. I estimate him in the high 14/low 15 area now) ... .. fear the gains we can get...

AM91Camaro_RS

hey doward, still interested in my old 3.1? if you gotta pull and rebuild your motor anyways, why not go bigger too?? and, i have a set of heads that i was going to use on my new 3.1 that i already ported and polished....you interested in any of this?

edit: its great to hear that yours ran with the turbo! i never doubted that you could do it but i'm glad that you proved to everyone else that you could! i can't wait to hear some numbers and times!!

oh yea, i do paint and body work too if somebody can tell me how i can post some pics of my new paint job....i gladly will.