Compatibility 2.8 to 3.4
07-23-2003, 12:51 PM
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Car: 87 Red/Blk Bird loaded 3.4L & 700R4
Transmission: Th700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Not to be difficult, but to make sure I am following...
I understand and will get the Balancer and flexplate...Check
On the heads, I'm just clarifing....
Ked...So on the 2.8 heads..they are the exact same as the 2.8 heads, but just with a thicker valve seat and dual springs...Now the motor will have some miles. Probably in the neighbor hood of 50,000 if we are lucky nad get a good short block...Chances are the existing 3.4 springs are worn and need to be replaced anyway.
Also....I have replaced my cam in the 2.8 to one that is more aggressive then the 2030 cam in the 3.4. I took the next step up...my existing valve springs, which are new and were matched to my cam by REED cams, fit just fine in the 2.8 seats. They are strong enough for my cam that I had planned to transfer to the 3.4 short block....Reed did not feel the cam was aggressive enough to truely warrent the use of a dual spring. I also ported and rebuilt the heads and they are perfect now....
So chances are since the valve springs are new (around 6000 miles) on my heads now and they are matched to the cam and they are working just fine, then I do not need a larger diameter spring anyway... so that 3.4 head improvement is not really necessary in my case.
So what I really need to know on the 3.4 heads is if the ports in the 3.4 heads are larger then the 2.8?
Are the valves larger in the 3.4?
Is the cumbustion chamber a more efficient design, or smaller to give more compression in the 3.4?
Would porting the 3.4 heads make them any better then the ported 2.8 heads?
Because if its just the valve seat and style of valve spring that is different it will not really be enough reason to give up my old heads and spend the time & money to rebuild and port the 3.4 heads...
Unless you guys can explain otherwise...
Thanks for the info. Its always best to ask!
I understand and will get the Balancer and flexplate...Check
On the heads, I'm just clarifing....
Ked...So on the 2.8 heads..they are the exact same as the 2.8 heads, but just with a thicker valve seat and dual springs...Now the motor will have some miles. Probably in the neighbor hood of 50,000 if we are lucky nad get a good short block...Chances are the existing 3.4 springs are worn and need to be replaced anyway.
Also....I have replaced my cam in the 2.8 to one that is more aggressive then the 2030 cam in the 3.4. I took the next step up...my existing valve springs, which are new and were matched to my cam by REED cams, fit just fine in the 2.8 seats. They are strong enough for my cam that I had planned to transfer to the 3.4 short block....Reed did not feel the cam was aggressive enough to truely warrent the use of a dual spring. I also ported and rebuilt the heads and they are perfect now....
So chances are since the valve springs are new (around 6000 miles) on my heads now and they are matched to the cam and they are working just fine, then I do not need a larger diameter spring anyway... so that 3.4 head improvement is not really necessary in my case.
So what I really need to know on the 3.4 heads is if the ports in the 3.4 heads are larger then the 2.8?
Are the valves larger in the 3.4?
Is the cumbustion chamber a more efficient design, or smaller to give more compression in the 3.4?
Would porting the 3.4 heads make them any better then the ported 2.8 heads?
Because if its just the valve seat and style of valve spring that is different it will not really be enough reason to give up my old heads and spend the time & money to rebuild and port the 3.4 heads...
Unless you guys can explain otherwise...
Thanks for the info. Its always best to ask!
07-23-2003, 01:13 PM
#52
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Hello,
Do you HAVE to use the 2.8 Oil pan and T-chain cover... I don't want to have to rip that offa the 2.8 and put it on the 3.4.. it just seems like a waist of time if you don't need it.
Do you HAVE to use the 2.8 Oil pan and T-chain cover... I don't want to have to rip that offa the 2.8 and put it on the 3.4.. it just seems like a waist of time if you don't need it.
07-23-2003, 01:24 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Timing chain cover depends on if you have serpintine belt, or v-belt.
If your serpintine, it can stay on, just remove the crank sensor and mail it to me
Oil Pan, will have to ask project 85, I "belive" he kept the 3.4l pan.
IMO, pull them off, replace gaskets, check/replace timing chain. Your call, your car.
If your serpintine, it can stay on, just remove the crank sensor and mail it to me
Oil Pan, will have to ask project 85, I "belive" he kept the 3.4l pan.
IMO, pull them off, replace gaskets, check/replace timing chain. Your call, your car.
07-23-2003, 05:16 PM
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
I kept the 3.4 oil pan, besides, the 2.8 one was all rusted up. IF you already have the 2.8 headss worked on w/new valve train, go for it. If you still want to reuse the cam, keep the lifters & pushrods matched to each postion it was in in the 2.8.
Last edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird; 07-23-2003 at 05:21 PM.
07-23-2003, 07:01 PM
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Let's help.
EVERY 3.4 SWAP IS CUSTOM.
How ya skin the cat is part of the fun.
Attend to the details and all will work for many miles.
The heads.
I can offer this beyond what I said.
The compression of a 3.4 mill is higher than a 2.8/3.1.
Take your pick of where it comes from, the heads or pistons.....
Me?
I'm very pleased how the 3.4 runs, as is.
I have not seen a 3.4 rebuild kit yet so I wouldn't be able to offer about lower end rebuilding cost or how strong is your option, your 3.4 wrecking yard engine.
My low milage ones are decent in already purchased engine wear. These 3.4 mills can rev, strongly & decent.
You have lots of "new" stuff. I know it's tempting to rip it apart.
That's your call.
Again the 3.4 is a higher compression engine than the 2.8/3.1. I believe the 3.4 compression is 9.4.
Beyond spring pocket area, the heads are identical, to my knowledge.
On my 3.4s?
I've never removed the 3.4 heads, I install engine as is. Even using the factory supplied 3.4 aluminum shrouded 3.4 manifolds. Why ruin a decent gasket? The 3rd Gen pipes bolt right up!
Every swap is a custom swap.
I kept my swap simple and low maintenance.
ME?
I'd definetly work with the 3.4 heads, sell off those other heads. 3.4 heads are way better foundation for HiPo work, anyday.
AGAIN, My opinion.
The 93-95 3.4 is the best of the best until the 2005 Caddy hits the street powered by next gen RWD 60* mill, the 3.5 & 3.6.
EVERY 3.4 SWAP IS CUSTOM.
How ya skin the cat is part of the fun.
Attend to the details and all will work for many miles.
The heads.
I can offer this beyond what I said.
The compression of a 3.4 mill is higher than a 2.8/3.1.
Take your pick of where it comes from, the heads or pistons.....
Me?
I'm very pleased how the 3.4 runs, as is.
I have not seen a 3.4 rebuild kit yet so I wouldn't be able to offer about lower end rebuilding cost or how strong is your option, your 3.4 wrecking yard engine.
My low milage ones are decent in already purchased engine wear. These 3.4 mills can rev, strongly & decent.
You have lots of "new" stuff. I know it's tempting to rip it apart.
That's your call.
Again the 3.4 is a higher compression engine than the 2.8/3.1. I believe the 3.4 compression is 9.4.
Beyond spring pocket area, the heads are identical, to my knowledge.
On my 3.4s?
I've never removed the 3.4 heads, I install engine as is. Even using the factory supplied 3.4 aluminum shrouded 3.4 manifolds. Why ruin a decent gasket? The 3rd Gen pipes bolt right up!
Every swap is a custom swap.
I kept my swap simple and low maintenance.
ME?
I'd definetly work with the 3.4 heads, sell off those other heads. 3.4 heads are way better foundation for HiPo work, anyday.
AGAIN, My opinion.
The 93-95 3.4 is the best of the best until the 2005 Caddy hits the street powered by next gen RWD 60* mill, the 3.5 & 3.6.
07-23-2003, 07:50 PM
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Car: 88 BMW 535i
Engine: 3.5L M30
Transmission: 4HP22E
Originally posted by KED85
Let's help.
EVERY 3.4 SWAP IS CUSTOM.
How ya skin the cat is part of the fun.
Attend to the details and all will work for many miles.
The heads.
I can offer this beyond what I said.
The compression of a 3.4 mill is higher than a 2.8/3.1.
Take your pick of where it comes from, the heads or pistons.....
Me?
I'm very pleased how the 3.4 runs, as is.
I have not seen a 3.4 rebuild kit yet so I wouldn't be able to offer about lower end rebuilding cost or how strong is your option, your 3.4 wrecking yard engine.
My low milage ones are decent in already purchased engine wear. These 3.4 mills can rev, strongly & decent.
You have lots of "new" stuff. I know it's tempting to rip it apart.
That's your call.
Again the 3.4 is a higher compression engine than the 2.8/3.1. I believe the 3.4 compression is 9.4.
Beyond spring pocket area, the heads are identical, to my knowledge.
On my 3.4s?
I've never removed the 3.4 heads, I install engine as is. Even using the factory supplied 3.4 aluminum shrouded 3.4 manifolds. Why ruin a decent gasket? The 3rd Gen pipes bolt right up!
Every swap is a custom swap.
I kept my swap simple and low maintenance.
ME?
I'd definetly work with the 3.4 heads, sell off those other heads. 3.4 heads are way better foundation for HiPo work, anyday.
AGAIN, My opinion.
The 93-95 3.4 is the best of the best until the 2005 Caddy hits the street powered by next gen RWD 60* mill, the 3.5 & 3.6.
Let's help.
EVERY 3.4 SWAP IS CUSTOM.
How ya skin the cat is part of the fun.
Attend to the details and all will work for many miles.
The heads.
I can offer this beyond what I said.
The compression of a 3.4 mill is higher than a 2.8/3.1.
Take your pick of where it comes from, the heads or pistons.....
Me?
I'm very pleased how the 3.4 runs, as is.
I have not seen a 3.4 rebuild kit yet so I wouldn't be able to offer about lower end rebuilding cost or how strong is your option, your 3.4 wrecking yard engine.
My low milage ones are decent in already purchased engine wear. These 3.4 mills can rev, strongly & decent.
You have lots of "new" stuff. I know it's tempting to rip it apart.
That's your call.
Again the 3.4 is a higher compression engine than the 2.8/3.1. I believe the 3.4 compression is 9.4.
Beyond spring pocket area, the heads are identical, to my knowledge.
On my 3.4s?
I've never removed the 3.4 heads, I install engine as is. Even using the factory supplied 3.4 aluminum shrouded 3.4 manifolds. Why ruin a decent gasket? The 3rd Gen pipes bolt right up!
Every swap is a custom swap.
I kept my swap simple and low maintenance.
ME?
I'd definetly work with the 3.4 heads, sell off those other heads. 3.4 heads are way better foundation for HiPo work, anyday.
AGAIN, My opinion.
The 93-95 3.4 is the best of the best until the 2005 Caddy hits the street powered by next gen RWD 60* mill, the 3.5 & 3.6.
And the 3.5 isnt very high tech either, its a pushrod single cam, just like the 2.8-3.4. (it will probably have aluminum heads and stuff tho.)
07-23-2003, 11:00 PM
#57
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Car: Chevy Cobalt & Camaro
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Axle/Gears: Stock 3.23
Hello again,
OK I got the 2.8 out FINALLY. I tried all kinds of stuff to get that plug out and failed every time. I have a "broken bolt remover set" The end of it fit exactly into the hole but it just started to strip so I stopped before any real damage was done. I can't afford to take it to a machine shop or have a welder or plumber do it for me. Can I just get a regular Benzomatic propane torch at like Walmart and that would heat it enough? Or is there any other place I can put the sensor. I would just hook it to a toggle switch. But with my luck I would forget to turn it on or off.
OK I got the 2.8 out FINALLY. I tried all kinds of stuff to get that plug out and failed every time. I have a "broken bolt remover set" The end of it fit exactly into the hole but it just started to strip so I stopped before any real damage was done. I can't afford to take it to a machine shop or have a welder or plumber do it for me. Can I just get a regular Benzomatic propane torch at like Walmart and that would heat it enough? Or is there any other place I can put the sensor. I would just hook it to a toggle switch. But with my luck I would forget to turn it on or off.
07-23-2003, 11:09 PM
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
If you have to, do the aftermarket switch like I did, but due to the "problem" I had w/mine, do it as a last resort.
07-23-2003, 11:13 PM
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Car: Chevy Cobalt & Camaro
Engine: 2.2 DOHC/3.1
Transmission: Not so slushy slush box/Slush Box
Axle/Gears: Stock 3.23
What I was thinking about doing is drilling a smaller hole all the way through it and using a back out or something...
07-24-2003, 05:29 AM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
You could buy whats called "mapp" gas at a hardwear store, with that little tip for it. Use that to heat up and remove.
07-24-2003, 05:53 AM
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
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Originally posted by 87CamaroMan
What I was thinking about doing is drilling a smaller hole all the way through it and using a back out or something...
What I was thinking about doing is drilling a smaller hole all the way through it and using a back out or something...
07-24-2003, 09:38 AM
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You just have to step up to the plate to do the job right.
That's why that little PITA step is JOB ONE!
Serious, it's the right way to do it.
The plug MUST BE CHERRY RED/WHITE HOT for removal to begin.
I didn't design the problem, I can only offer realistic available at home solutions.
By "doing what ya did" to the plug (rounding it-if read correctly) you now bypassed obtaining the "tool" for effective removal.
Gotta go for fresh blood.
Serious.
IF ya gonna spend time wasting to find a "home torch" set up, you could spend the time more effectivly finding a person with the right tools to help you & PROBABLY CHEAPER, also!
KEEP AT IT but search for the right solution.
Again, it's a two person job and you need extreme heat.
One other swapper got very lucky with minimal effort for that recessed plug removal.
When I FIRST encountered tis plug project, I had visions of head removal (wasting a perfectly great head gasket along the way).
My swap project was stopped dead in my tracks until I got that plug out.
ATLEAST someone was kind enough to warn ya up front! NO ONE TOLD ME!!!
KEEP AT IT! You will find a way.
A plumber or welder will charge ya about $15 - $50 for the visit!
When ya speak with them, start out conversation by asking if the guy is a gear head! He'll be right over.
YOU CAN DO THIS!!! Others have, so will you!
PS I've been there TWICE
First time 2.8->3.4 swap was at a garage-got lucky!
Second time 2.8->3.4 swap, I had plumber at my house & I asked for his torch, he just jumped right in & we made a bit of fun for us-more fun then the plumbing job for which I had him at house.
YOU CAN DO THIS!
Give a shout back about your success!!!
KEEP AT IT!!
Again, atleast you were warned ahead of time.
Imagine how much fun it would be IF you slipped in the mill & discovered this plug problem & attacked this in car.
About as much fun as keeping a Snowman "Alive" in August!
KEEP AT IT YOU, WILL HAVE SUCCESS!!!!! PROMISE!
Other solution could be "this is an excuse for that propane torch & acetlyne tank" set up you've been seeking to buy!
Hand held torches don't cut it!
Serious, unless you discover something & inform us.
Plug removal is while the plug is cherry red/white hot, a tip.
That's why that little PITA step is JOB ONE!
Serious, it's the right way to do it.
The plug MUST BE CHERRY RED/WHITE HOT for removal to begin.
I didn't design the problem, I can only offer realistic available at home solutions.
By "doing what ya did" to the plug (rounding it-if read correctly) you now bypassed obtaining the "tool" for effective removal.
Gotta go for fresh blood.
Serious.
IF ya gonna spend time wasting to find a "home torch" set up, you could spend the time more effectivly finding a person with the right tools to help you & PROBABLY CHEAPER, also!
KEEP AT IT but search for the right solution.
Again, it's a two person job and you need extreme heat.
One other swapper got very lucky with minimal effort for that recessed plug removal.
When I FIRST encountered tis plug project, I had visions of head removal (wasting a perfectly great head gasket along the way).
My swap project was stopped dead in my tracks until I got that plug out.
ATLEAST someone was kind enough to warn ya up front! NO ONE TOLD ME!!!
KEEP AT IT! You will find a way.
A plumber or welder will charge ya about $15 - $50 for the visit!
When ya speak with them, start out conversation by asking if the guy is a gear head! He'll be right over.
YOU CAN DO THIS!!! Others have, so will you!
PS I've been there TWICE
First time 2.8->3.4 swap was at a garage-got lucky!
Second time 2.8->3.4 swap, I had plumber at my house & I asked for his torch, he just jumped right in & we made a bit of fun for us-more fun then the plumbing job for which I had him at house.
YOU CAN DO THIS!
Give a shout back about your success!!!
KEEP AT IT!!
Again, atleast you were warned ahead of time.
Imagine how much fun it would be IF you slipped in the mill & discovered this plug problem & attacked this in car.
About as much fun as keeping a Snowman "Alive" in August!
KEEP AT IT YOU, WILL HAVE SUCCESS!!!!! PROMISE!
Other solution could be "this is an excuse for that propane torch & acetlyne tank" set up you've been seeking to buy!
Hand held torches don't cut it!
Serious, unless you discover something & inform us.
Plug removal is while the plug is cherry red/white hot, a tip.
07-24-2003, 12:03 PM
#63
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Originally posted by KED85
Other solution could be "this is an excuse for that propane torch & acetlyne tank" set up you've been seeking to buy!
Hand held torches don't cut it!
Other solution could be "this is an excuse for that propane torch & acetlyne tank" set up you've been seeking to buy!
Hand held torches don't cut it!
I tryed removing that plug while it was in car on my 3.1l for fan sensor. After about 3 attempts, I was fearing for the wiring.
Luckly, my 3.4l swap didnt need that to be removed. But I gave it a quick "budge". It slid right off my engine hoist and bent the oil pan. Luckly it was the one I didn't need.
07-25-2003, 10:53 PM
#64
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Car: Chevy Cobalt & Camaro
Engine: 2.2 DOHC/3.1
Transmission: Not so slushy slush box/Slush Box
Axle/Gears: Stock 3.23
Fan sensor
I found away around that pesky Fan Thermostat. I went to Advanced auto and bought an aftermarket Fan thermostat that hooks into your Radiator for only like 20 bucks.. It kicks in @ around 185deg. vs the OEM that kicks in around 220deg.. Now all I have left to do is that and put the distributor in and drop it and hook up all the necessary wires... Then 
... I can't wait... Again Thanks for all of the help.. I might still need ya though.. Till its completely finished...
... I can't wait... Again Thanks for all of the help.. I might still need ya though.. Till its completely finished...
07-25-2003, 10:55 PM
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
you realize that Karls gonna have a fit don't ya? It's ok, you can hide behind my car, also w/the aftermarket fan switch.
Do you have/still have factroy working A/C?
Do you have/still have factroy working A/C?
07-25-2003, 10:59 PM
#66
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Why is he gonna have a fit..... I have all of the essential parts to the AC but it don;t work
07-25-2003, 11:08 PM
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
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Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Originally posted by 87CamaroMan
Why is he gonna have a fit..... I have all of the essential parts to the AC but it don;t work
Why is he gonna have a fit..... I have all of the essential parts to the AC but it don;t work
07-25-2003, 11:46 PM
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I said previously that if ya can skin the cat, do so, as this is a custom swap.
I went the easy way twice and success both times.
Keep at it, you're doing great!
I went the easy way twice and success both times.
Keep at it, you're doing great!
07-26-2003, 07:58 PM
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Finaly the 3.4 is ready to be dropped in... I am gonna do this tomorrow because I ran outta sun light.. and I have no power in the Garage. Oh and do I have to use the 2.8 "engine mounts" to motor mount on the frame... Or can I just use the 3.4 ones, They are longer so I am not sure... Whoo hooo I can;t wait... I think I am gonna run to wal-mart and get me a really long extention cord and some halogen lights and finish it tonight....
07-26-2003, 08:11 PM
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Car: 1985 GMC Jimmy/1998 Chevy Malibu
Engine: 3.2L turbo Hybrid/bone stock 3100
Transmission: T-5 soon to be 700R4/4T40E
Use the 2.8 mounts that came with YOUR car, they fit the chassis, and other dimentions will be the same as far as the block comparison between teh 2.8 and 3.4 are concerned.
I don't know if it was mentioned but you may need to use your oil filter adaptor that came on the 2.8, because of the crossmember, I'm not sure how different that area is between the 3rd gen and 4th gen.
I don't know if it was mentioned but you may need to use your oil filter adaptor that came on the 2.8, because of the crossmember, I'm not sure how different that area is between the 3rd gen and 4th gen.
07-26-2003, 09:15 PM
#71
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
As for the oil adapter. I would use the one that came with the car in 8x year.
However, on my "custom" swap, I wish I would have used the 3.4 one.
However, on my "custom" swap, I wish I would have used the 3.4 one.
07-26-2003, 09:31 PM
#72
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You retain the Original Vehicle Oil Filter Housing along with it's two sensors.
Make DAMN SURE you do a GREAT job here.
I spent a very hot day redoing that oil filter housing due to my lousy gasket work.
Damn, sounds like you are setting a record on he 2.8->3.4 Long Block Swap Boogie!
Make DAMN SURE you do a GREAT job here.
I spent a very hot day redoing that oil filter housing due to my lousy gasket work.
Damn, sounds like you are setting a record on he 2.8->3.4 Long Block Swap Boogie!
07-27-2003, 12:26 PM
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Car: Chevy Cobalt & Camaro
Engine: 2.2 DOHC/3.1
Transmission: Not so slushy slush box/Slush Box
Axle/Gears: Stock 3.23
Hello again,
I have a problem. Where you put the engine mount on the side with out the Oil filter housing... Theres this thing in the way of the engine mount, its not on the 2.8 not sure if I should just take it out and plug it.... So tell me what I should do with it... heres a pic.
I have a problem. Where you put the engine mount on the side with out the Oil filter housing... Theres this thing in the way of the engine mount, its not on the 2.8 not sure if I should just take it out and plug it.... So tell me what I should do with it... heres a pic.
07-27-2003, 12:38 PM
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
It's a knock sencor for the 3.4 harness. Just take it out. NOthing will leak out of it.
Oh yeah, about the aftermarket relay,...I didn't have it hooked up to an "On" source, it hooks up to the clutch power wire.
Oh yeah, about the aftermarket relay,...I didn't have it hooked up to an "On" source, it hooks up to the clutch power wire.
07-27-2003, 12:38 PM
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Car: 1985 GMC Jimmy/1998 Chevy Malibu
Engine: 3.2L turbo Hybrid/bone stock 3100
Transmission: T-5 soon to be 700R4/4T40E
That's the knock sensor.
Can you do me a favour, can youmeasure the distance between the forward most pair of mount bolt holes and the front of the block (timing cover mating surface, also doing the same on the 2.8. It almost looks like the 3.4 uses the FWD location for those bolt holes, but it hard to tell from the picture, this has also not been mentioned by any of the S-10 2.8 to 3.4 swappers.
Can you do me a favour, can youmeasure the distance between the forward most pair of mount bolt holes and the front of the block (timing cover mating surface, also doing the same on the 2.8. It almost looks like the 3.4 uses the FWD location for those bolt holes, but it hard to tell from the picture, this has also not been mentioned by any of the S-10 2.8 to 3.4 swappers.
Last edited by The_Raven; 07-27-2003 at 12:44 PM.
07-27-2003, 01:27 PM
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
it's the same for both. The 3.4 have the brackets notched for the knock sensor.
Last edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird; 07-27-2003 at 05:16 PM.
07-27-2003, 01:59 PM
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Car: 1985 GMC Jimmy/1998 Chevy Malibu
Engine: 3.2L turbo Hybrid/bone stock 3100
Transmission: T-5 soon to be 700R4/4T40E
Originally posted by Project: 85 2.8 bird
it's the same for both. The 3.4 brackets have the brackets notched for the knock sensor.
it's the same for both. The 3.4 brackets have the brackets notched for the knock sensor.
On the 2.8 in the Camaro, only the 2 rear bolt holes are used? That doesn't make much sense. I know on just about any other 2.8 Vehicle, at least 3 bolts are used on that side, not just 2, unless there are extra bolt holes in the 3.4 block, which is something else, if that is the case has not been mentioned.
07-27-2003, 05:14 PM
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Each motor uses 3 bolts. THe bracket on the 3.4 car is notched to allow clearance for the knock sensor. The 2.3 bracket partially covers this knock sensor hole. In the pic it looks like that the bracket being held up is blocking mounting hole.
07-27-2003, 06:33 PM
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Car: Chevy Cobalt & Camaro
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Axle/Gears: Stock 3.23
Okay, I just got a sledgehammer and smashed the crap outta the engine mount to cave it in so that it fits. Motor is in, hooking up misc. stuff, hopefully, tonite I'll have it running.
Thanks for all of the help!!!
Thanks for all of the help!!!
07-27-2003, 06:37 PM
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Originally posted by 87CamaroMan
Okay, I just got a sledgehammer and smashed the crap outta the engine mount to cave it in so that it fits.
Okay, I just got a sledgehammer and smashed the crap outta the engine mount to cave it in so that it fits.
07-27-2003, 07:34 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
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raven. I took the knock sensor outta that place, and put it down by the starter on my s10 swap. VERY VERY close to the starter
07-27-2003, 10:04 PM
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I got two.
Who needs them?
Great going on the installation.
I was hands & knees w/heat gun & 1" chisel removing lamination on a oak floor I'm refinishing. BEFORE I sand.
You had more fun!
Who needs them?
Great going on the installation.
I was hands & knees w/heat gun & 1" chisel removing lamination on a oak floor I'm refinishing. BEFORE I sand.
You had more fun!
07-27-2003, 11:36 PM
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Car: 1985 GMC Jimmy/1998 Chevy Malibu
Engine: 3.2L turbo Hybrid/bone stock 3100
Transmission: T-5 soon to be 700R4/4T40E
Originally posted by Dale
raven. I took the knock sensor outta that place, and put it down by the starter on my s10 swap. VERY VERY close to the starter
raven. I took the knock sensor outta that place, and put it down by the starter on my s10 swap. VERY VERY close to the starter
Dale, so there are actually 5 engine mount holes on the passenger side of the 3.4 block? Both the RWD layout and the FWD layout? From that pic the 2 bolt holes that are forward of the mount look like the same position as the FWD bolt holes. This is the first I have seen that on any block.
07-28-2003, 12:02 AM
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Car: 1985 GMC Jimmy/1998 Chevy Malibu
Engine: 3.2L turbo Hybrid/bone stock 3100
Transmission: T-5 soon to be 700R4/4T40E
I just read back through the middle to the end of this thread and I'm sitting here wondering why the flexplate is needed from the 3.4, especially on an '87 and up 2.8 swap, since in late '87 the 2.8 was upgraded to internal balance, just like the 3.4, unless all the mechanics and tech manuals I have talked to and read are wrong. Also from my understanding the 3.4 flywheel can not be used on a 2.8 tranny, due to the 3.4 flywheel being thicker, and acctually tries to push the throwout bearing through the tranny, if it is used.
I can see how if you are doing this to an '87 (which is a transition year) and down to use a neutrally balanced flywheel, which would have to be sourced else where, but most of the guys I know doing this are S-10 guys, but really I can't see much difference here, just a different chassis, unless the 2.8 Camaro tranny is also different.
Can anyone shed some light on this for me?
I can see how if you are doing this to an '87 (which is a transition year) and down to use a neutrally balanced flywheel, which would have to be sourced else where, but most of the guys I know doing this are S-10 guys, but really I can't see much difference here, just a different chassis, unless the 2.8 Camaro tranny is also different.
Can anyone shed some light on this for me?
Last edited by The_Raven; 07-28-2003 at 07:52 PM.
07-28-2003, 09:06 AM
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It's very simple.
The 3.4 Flexplate comes for FREE with purchase of the 3.4 long block you install.
IF ya wanna modify 2.8 flexplates for automatics, I have three you can have for cost of shipping.
Really, the stuff is a MATCHED pair.
Stuff comes with the 3.4 long block you purchase.
Keeps everything working perfect, in BALANCED Harmony.
This is a custom swap & if ya wanna try....
One past 2.8->3.4 Long Blocker Boogie Swapper, tried that.
Had shakes.
Solved by correct 3.4 part.
Use initial purchase to your advantage, score all ya can in one shot.
What's left over, sell or store for future.
My ideas passed along are to keep this project dead simple, yet detailed in execution.
This 2.8->3.4 swap success is ALL in the details.
Less down time AND MORE FUN TIME
Boogie On!
The 3.4 Flexplate comes for FREE with purchase of the 3.4 long block you install.
IF ya wanna modify 2.8 flexplates for automatics, I have three you can have for cost of shipping.
Really, the stuff is a MATCHED pair.
Stuff comes with the 3.4 long block you purchase.
Keeps everything working perfect, in BALANCED Harmony.
This is a custom swap & if ya wanna try....
One past 2.8->3.4 Long Blocker Boogie Swapper, tried that.
Had shakes.
Solved by correct 3.4 part.
Use initial purchase to your advantage, score all ya can in one shot.
What's left over, sell or store for future.
My ideas passed along are to keep this project dead simple, yet detailed in execution.
This 2.8->3.4 swap success is ALL in the details.
Less down time AND MORE FUN TIME
Boogie On!
07-28-2003, 09:27 AM
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Car: 1985 GMC Jimmy/1998 Chevy Malibu
Engine: 3.2L turbo Hybrid/bone stock 3100
Transmission: T-5 soon to be 700R4/4T40E
Originally posted by KED85
It's very simple.
The 3.4 Flexplate comes for FREE with purchase of the 3.4 long block you install.
IF ya wanna modify 2.8 flexplates for automatics, I have three you can have for cost of shipping.
Really, the stuff is a MATCHED pair.
Stuff comes with the 3.4 long block you purchase.
Keeps everything working perfect, in BALANCED Harmony.
This is a custom swap & if ya wanna try....
One past 2.8->3.4 Long Blocker Boogie Swapper, tried that.
Had shakes.
Solved by correct 3.4 part.
Use initial purchase to your advantage, score all ya can in one shot.
What's left over, sell or store for future.
My ideas passed along are to keep this project dead simple, yet detailed in execution.
This 2.8->3.4 swap success is ALL in the details.
Less down time AND MORE FUN TIME
Boogie On!
It's very simple.
The 3.4 Flexplate comes for FREE with purchase of the 3.4 long block you install.
IF ya wanna modify 2.8 flexplates for automatics, I have three you can have for cost of shipping.
Really, the stuff is a MATCHED pair.
Stuff comes with the 3.4 long block you purchase.
Keeps everything working perfect, in BALANCED Harmony.
This is a custom swap & if ya wanna try....
One past 2.8->3.4 Long Blocker Boogie Swapper, tried that.
Had shakes.
Solved by correct 3.4 part.
Use initial purchase to your advantage, score all ya can in one shot.
What's left over, sell or store for future.
My ideas passed along are to keep this project dead simple, yet detailed in execution.
This 2.8->3.4 swap success is ALL in the details.
Less down time AND MORE FUN TIME
Boogie On!
Besides I'm not going to do a 3.4 swap, I already have something swapped in with more potential and engineuity.
I like to find out differences and changes that occur so that I can use that knowledge for the next engine I build, if I choose to use certain parts that other people have in the past.
Yeah it's in the details, of which it seems you can not offer.
07-28-2003, 10:09 AM
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I can't explain much further.
Take your research for the answer elsewhere. Start your own thread.
Again, simply put, use what GM gave ya.
It's a balanced set.
Aparently ya haven't worked very well with engines or you'd understand harmonic balancing better.
Why reinvent a wheel?
Enjoy your day.
Don't bother responding with a insulting answer ya can send me an email.
This thead was started by a person who wants assistance, not insults thrown at someone because of your poor attitude The_Raven.
Take your research for the answer elsewhere. Start your own thread.
Again, simply put, use what GM gave ya.
It's a balanced set.
Aparently ya haven't worked very well with engines or you'd understand harmonic balancing better.
Why reinvent a wheel?
Enjoy your day.
Don't bother responding with a insulting answer ya can send me an email.
This thead was started by a person who wants assistance, not insults thrown at someone because of your poor attitude The_Raven.
07-28-2003, 04:21 PM
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Car: Chevy Cobalt & Camaro
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Axle/Gears: Stock 3.23
Don't know if this will help, read really fast. The differences between the 2.8 and 3.4 is that the 2.8 flexplate is weighted and the 3.4 is not. That's about it; pitch, size and teeth are all the same.
07-28-2003, 06:40 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
The teeth of the flywheel and flexplate are the same on all 60deg engines that are in camaros, and s10's.
82-87/88'ish are balanced via the flywheel/flexplate and balancer.
88'ish, to 96 are balanced via the crankshaft, inside the engine. thus making the flywheel/flexplate neutral, along with the "balancer".
so if you have a pre 88 2.8l, and swap to the 3.4l, you need a post 88 flywheel/flexplate per automatic, or manual.
82-87/88'ish are balanced via the flywheel/flexplate and balancer.
88'ish, to 96 are balanced via the crankshaft, inside the engine. thus making the flywheel/flexplate neutral, along with the "balancer".
so if you have a pre 88 2.8l, and swap to the 3.4l, you need a post 88 flywheel/flexplate per automatic, or manual.
07-28-2003, 06:44 PM
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Car: 88 BMW 535i
Engine: 3.5L M30
Transmission: 4HP22E
Originally posted by Dale
The teeth of the flywheel and flexplate are the same on all 60deg engines that are in camaros, and s10's.
82-87/88'ish are balanced via the flywheel/flexplate and balancer.
88'ish, to 96 are balanced via the crankshaft, inside the engine. thus making the flywheel/flexplate neutral, along with the "balancer".
so if you have a pre 88 2.8l, and swap to the 3.4l, you need a post 88 flywheel/flexplate per automatic, or manual.
The teeth of the flywheel and flexplate are the same on all 60deg engines that are in camaros, and s10's.
82-87/88'ish are balanced via the flywheel/flexplate and balancer.
88'ish, to 96 are balanced via the crankshaft, inside the engine. thus making the flywheel/flexplate neutral, along with the "balancer".
so if you have a pre 88 2.8l, and swap to the 3.4l, you need a post 88 flywheel/flexplate per automatic, or manual.
Last edited by Lee7; 07-28-2003 at 06:49 PM.
07-28-2003, 07:48 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
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Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
lee, wish it was that easy. It has to be spun on machine (kinda like a tire balance machine) and checked. Some weights may need to stay on, some may need to come off, etc.
07-28-2003, 07:50 PM
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Car: 1985 GMC Jimmy/1998 Chevy Malibu
Engine: 3.2L turbo Hybrid/bone stock 3100
Transmission: T-5 soon to be 700R4/4T40E
Originally posted by Dale
The teeth of the flywheel and flexplate are the same on all 60deg engines that are in camaros, and s10's.
82-87/88'ish are balanced via the flywheel/flexplate and balancer.
88'ish, to 96 are balanced via the crankshaft, inside the engine. thus making the flywheel/flexplate neutral, along with the "balancer".
so if you have a pre 88 2.8l, and swap to the 3.4l, you need a post 88 flywheel/flexplate per automatic, or manual.
The teeth of the flywheel and flexplate are the same on all 60deg engines that are in camaros, and s10's.
82-87/88'ish are balanced via the flywheel/flexplate and balancer.
88'ish, to 96 are balanced via the crankshaft, inside the engine. thus making the flywheel/flexplate neutral, along with the "balancer".
so if you have a pre 88 2.8l, and swap to the 3.4l, you need a post 88 flywheel/flexplate per automatic, or manual.
Ked, just curious, are you offended that someone else may (italicised because I don't know what you know, and saying a for instance) know a little more about these engines, or that I have taken the buidling of these 60*V6s to the next level and shown what somepeople said couldn't be done? If you were insulted, good, I was insulted by your "answer" that had no additional info from what you had previously posted, I was trying to clarify something, that you obviously didn't want to elaborate on, that's fine, I will continue my research where I see fit, and hope to help others because of it, thank you and have a good day. BTW I do uderstand harmonic balance very well.
For everybody else, this is what is possible with these engines:
If you want to see more pics go here: Turbocharged Hybrid
07-28-2003, 09:13 PM
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Couldn't care if others know more about a 3.4 than myself.
I found out the answers I offer from GM engineers & others. And the GM Performance Parts Book (a wise investment at $6.95 from any GM dealer).
Having installed two 3.4 mills successfully and coached oh jeez about 40 + people now.
The answers I give tend to work for about 99% of folks.
1% of repsonses are offensive to others.
I'm too busy making 6 figure profits on real estate deals I finance to worry about balancing or not balancing a flexplate. OR why it may need balancing. IF GM designed something this way & it works why agrue with that simple concept?
I keep answers simple.
If I had all the time in the world, (I retire in about 2 weeks again until my next real estate deal) I'll decide to type more words for ya.
Nice thing is others pick up the ball for a well worded question.
Most here get turned off on insulting repsonses and excessive anger.
Enjoy your turbo project.
Looks like maybe two will have a go at that engine power supplement.
ALL 60* RWD engines are somewhat different.
There is no Gen 1 or Gen 2 RWD 60* version.
That distinction it seems belongs to the FWD 60* engine family.
For more details on the flexplates & why the specific usage choices, go to the tranny side.
They know their stuff. I follow their tranny advice often.
I found out the answers I offer from GM engineers & others. And the GM Performance Parts Book (a wise investment at $6.95 from any GM dealer).
Having installed two 3.4 mills successfully and coached oh jeez about 40 + people now.
The answers I give tend to work for about 99% of folks.
1% of repsonses are offensive to others.
I'm too busy making 6 figure profits on real estate deals I finance to worry about balancing or not balancing a flexplate. OR why it may need balancing. IF GM designed something this way & it works why agrue with that simple concept?
I keep answers simple.
If I had all the time in the world, (I retire in about 2 weeks again until my next real estate deal) I'll decide to type more words for ya.
Nice thing is others pick up the ball for a well worded question.
Most here get turned off on insulting repsonses and excessive anger.
Enjoy your turbo project.
Looks like maybe two will have a go at that engine power supplement.
ALL 60* RWD engines are somewhat different.
There is no Gen 1 or Gen 2 RWD 60* version.
That distinction it seems belongs to the FWD 60* engine family.
For more details on the flexplates & why the specific usage choices, go to the tranny side.
They know their stuff. I follow their tranny advice often.
07-28-2003, 11:51 PM
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Car: 1985 GMC Jimmy/1998 Chevy Malibu
Engine: 3.2L turbo Hybrid/bone stock 3100
Transmission: T-5 soon to be 700R4/4T40E
You just said it yourself, Why mess with what GM designed, so if you do the research, you will know that certain flexplates or flywheels, will work, that you do not nessisarily need the 3.4 flexplate/flywheel, but a nuetrally balanced version, from an '87 and up 2.8/3.1 or yes the 3.4, all I'm trying to point out is that it does not have to be the 3.4 wheel/plate. Many S-10 3.4 swappers use there original wheels/plates in the '87 and newer trucks, without a problem.
I also own several GM Performance books, from different years, each seem to have slightly different info, they all have SBC and BBC info though. LOL
I only pointed out the gen2 as saying that there are simularities between both RWD and FWD engines and that a lot of similar changes were made in the same years.
I don't see the relavance of what the number of figures you deal with or make has anything to do with what I had asked, or stated again, you are trying misdirection to to I don't know what, I can only speculate and will not get into that here, it's not the point.
This all started when I asked for an explanation on why people are saying that it must be the 3.4 wheel/plate and I did not get a straight answer just some run around about how it works, sure it works, but there are other parts that can be sourced, from what I have found, and was wondering if there was something I was not told, and so far I have not bee told other wise, so now I ask, is there some greater reason than "that's what came with the engine"? Is there some small detail that no one has stated yet? I like detail as I'm sure others do as well, in my experiance details mean more than "this is the way it is", know what I mean?
Oh and I do hope the others working on their 60* power adder projects get them done and they work well, I like custom stuff that people do, it shows desire to excel, and stand out.
I also own several GM Performance books, from different years, each seem to have slightly different info, they all have SBC and BBC info though. LOL
I only pointed out the gen2 as saying that there are simularities between both RWD and FWD engines and that a lot of similar changes were made in the same years.
I don't see the relavance of what the number of figures you deal with or make has anything to do with what I had asked, or stated again, you are trying misdirection to to I don't know what, I can only speculate and will not get into that here, it's not the point.
This all started when I asked for an explanation on why people are saying that it must be the 3.4 wheel/plate and I did not get a straight answer just some run around about how it works, sure it works, but there are other parts that can be sourced, from what I have found, and was wondering if there was something I was not told, and so far I have not bee told other wise, so now I ask, is there some greater reason than "that's what came with the engine"? Is there some small detail that no one has stated yet? I like detail as I'm sure others do as well, in my experiance details mean more than "this is the way it is", know what I mean?
Oh and I do hope the others working on their 60* power adder projects get them done and they work well, I like custom stuff that people do, it shows desire to excel, and stand out.
07-29-2003, 09:34 AM
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When ya purchase your 3.4 mill from the wrcking yard, get all ya can for free (original purchase of the 3.4 long block mill).
You use what was purchased.
It works that way.
Keep your 3.4 swap simple
Less aggrivation
When the vehicle is running then ya can have a life again.
My 3.4 swaps have been running for a long time so I went back to making money.
California Real Estate is very profitable.
Working on your own car is not profitable just saves money & is quite entertaining some days.
Thanks for the discussion The_Raven, we all learned something.
Use the purchased 3.4 Harmonic Balancer & Flywheel/Flexplate on the 3.4 engine ya receive from the wrecking yard.
It works rights and mates up with all your original vehicle pullies & accessories.
Simple.
You use what was purchased.
It works that way.
Keep your 3.4 swap simple
Less aggrivation
When the vehicle is running then ya can have a life again.
My 3.4 swaps have been running for a long time so I went back to making money.
California Real Estate is very profitable.
Working on your own car is not profitable just saves money & is quite entertaining some days.
Thanks for the discussion The_Raven, we all learned something.
Use the purchased 3.4 Harmonic Balancer & Flywheel/Flexplate on the 3.4 engine ya receive from the wrecking yard.
It works rights and mates up with all your original vehicle pullies & accessories.
Simple.
07-29-2003, 11:36 AM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
I have investagated, and my 1991 Automatic camaro uses same flywheel as the 1995 3.4l Automatic camaro engine, so their is no difference.
Some have clamied the 3.4l was lighter, but parts books call for same replacement part #.
Some have clamied the 3.4l was lighter, but parts books call for same replacement part #.
07-30-2003, 12:57 AM
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Car: Chevy Cobalt & Camaro
Engine: 2.2 DOHC/3.1
Transmission: Not so slushy slush box/Slush Box
Axle/Gears: Stock 3.23
Hello Again.
I have all but the exausts and a few Radiator hoses hooked up. I'm all excited... But I am gonna have a tough time with the exausts. the one is like 2 inches over towards the engine to much, So that'll be so much fun. (one thing I hate more than changing a tranny is EXAUST WORK.) Wish me luck, Hopfully next time I post on this thread is to show you the finished product.
I have all but the exausts and a few Radiator hoses hooked up. I'm all excited... But I am gonna have a tough time with the exausts. the one is like 2 inches over towards the engine to much, So that'll be so much fun. (one thing I hate more than changing a tranny is EXAUST WORK.) Wish me luck, Hopfully next time I post on this thread is to show you the finished product.
07-30-2003, 01:05 AM
#99
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: BFE, MD
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Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
What happened to the T-pipe to make it so? I had my pipe getting beat around for about a yr & it still went back in good.
Exhaust tip: And I jsut finished mine too, make sure the t-pipe to donut gasket seal is good. That's what I had bad on mine. Didn't sound too good, but was eay to fix.
Exhaust tip: And I jsut finished mine too, make sure the t-pipe to donut gasket seal is good. That's what I had bad on mine. Didn't sound too good, but was eay to fix.
07-30-2003, 08:53 AM
#100
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Moved... GA still, more garage space!
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Car: 87 Red/Blk Bird loaded 3.4L & 700R4
Transmission: Th700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Originally posted by The_Raven
You just said it yourself, Why mess with what GM designed, so if you do the research, you will know that certain flexplates or flywheels, will work, that you do not nessisarily need the 3.4 flexplate/flywheel, but a nuetrally balanced version, from an '87 and up 2.8/3.1 or yes the 3.4, all I'm trying to point out is that it does not have to be the 3.4 wheel/plate. Many S-10 3.4 swappers use there original wheels/plates in the '87 and newer trucks, without a problem.
This all started when I asked for an explanation on why people are saying that it must be the 3.4 wheel/plate and I did not get a straight answer just some run around about how it works, sure it works, but there are other parts that can be sourced, from what I have found, and was wondering if there was something I was not told, and so far I have not bee told other wise, so now I ask, is there some greater reason than "that's what came with the engine"? Is there some small detail that no one has stated yet? I like detail as I'm sure others do as well, in my experiance details mean more than "this is the way it is", know what I mean?
You just said it yourself, Why mess with what GM designed, so if you do the research, you will know that certain flexplates or flywheels, will work, that you do not nessisarily need the 3.4 flexplate/flywheel, but a nuetrally balanced version, from an '87 and up 2.8/3.1 or yes the 3.4, all I'm trying to point out is that it does not have to be the 3.4 wheel/plate. Many S-10 3.4 swappers use there original wheels/plates in the '87 and newer trucks, without a problem.
This all started when I asked for an explanation on why people are saying that it must be the 3.4 wheel/plate and I did not get a straight answer just some run around about how it works, sure it works, but there are other parts that can be sourced, from what I have found, and was wondering if there was something I was not told, and so far I have not bee told other wise, so now I ask, is there some greater reason than "that's what came with the engine"? Is there some small detail that no one has stated yet? I like detail as I'm sure others do as well, in my experiance details mean more than "this is the way it is", know what I mean?
From his experience...you will need the 3.4 flywheel/flexplate when doing a 2.8 to 3.4 swap... The reason... the 3.4 has a larger stroke...ergo a larger crank with more mass. Because of its larger mass, it will have more of a tendancy to be out of balance. And the flywheels will have a different balance due to this. He says in most race applications when a motor is stroked it will be internally balanced. In this case, with GM designing it, its highly doubtful they went thru the effort to internally balance it. He could be wrong. This is just an educated guess. More likely GM externally balanced it...The flexplate/flywheel would be and integral to this balance. But either way, since the crank is completely different in size He belives the 2.8 flywheel and the 3.4 flywheel would be a totally different animal. Again because of the mass difference in the 2.
Now the 3.1 and the 3.4's interchangability is more plausible. As Dale stated. His 91 would be a 3.1. It depends on what stroke the cranks are. If they are the exact same crank then yes. But the 2.8 and 3.4 have totall different cranks, so Joe thinks they are not interchangable...
Now if they did internally balance it then the 3.4 flywheel is neutral. The 2.8 flywheel, As someone above stated has some weights on it...ergo externally balanced. So the flywheel on the 2.8 is not neutral. It would have to be stripped and made neutral. This would be costly and not worth the effort. Hence get the 3.4 one with the engine when you get it.
Just thought I would attempt to add his 2 cents. Hopefully I did not butcher the reasoning too bad...
Last edited by redraif; 07-30-2003 at 08:57 AM.