KED85

Here's what I got planned
I contacted Pacesetter Exhaust Systems by phone.
Their number is 602-266-1964
They are located in AZ Phoenix (PST)

The person ya want to speak with is Fred Gerle

OR EMAIL HIM AT
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com

The reason.
IF ya heard (I discovered) Pacesetter makes a 3.4 header for the 1993-1995 F Body.
Pacesetter is CURRENTLY having that version CARB Approved & EXPECTS IT APPROVED in 60 days or so.

THE 3rd Gen Exhaust system is almost IDENTICAL to the 1993-1995 F Body 3.4 exhaust manifolds.
One difference is that our (one) Oxy sensor is on the "Y" pipe. 3.4 oxy sensor is one per manifold (two) & are on the exhaust manifold at the engine.

NOW
the reason HEADERS ARE BEING MADE AND A "SMOG APPROVED VERSION" for the 3.4 powered F Body is
PACESETTER SAW A DEMAND & WANTED TO TAP THAT MARKET.

I'm speaking to tech guy & he feels THAT THERE IS NO DEMAND from our 2.8/3.1 version 1985-1992.

WHAT YA GONNA DO ABOUT IT!

The Pacesetter 3.4 ones go for $350-ish.
Want to bet we can't get Pacesetter to feel there is ACTUAL MARKET DEMAND FOR THIS STREET LEGAL HEADER PRODUCT FOR OUR CARS!!!

Think about this.
1993-1993 3.4 Camaro/Firebird production is what total of 100,000 cars?

WE the THIRD GEN ORGANIZATION REPRESENT EIGHT MODEL YEARS OF PRODUCTION (I count from 1985 to 1992, prior years that's more work for headers for ya), at maybe 4 to 5 fimes that many vehicles, I'd say about close to over half million plus?

HELP CONVINCE THESE GUYS There is a market demand for their product & they may produce it!

Be constructive in your comments, direct them to our website (thirdgen.org), we may actually win in our quest for street legal headers!

Good luck to each e mail letter writer & phone caller.

PS the tech guy I spoke to thinks that 3.4 heads are different than 2.8/3.1
Keep educating him about the facts.
I spent like an extra 10 minutes to give him 3.4 facts. He finally "got it" when I told him my factory 1985 "Y" pipe bolts right up to the 1995 3.4 factory exhaust manifolds.

Jurrel

I'd be for it but Ive got a 84, carb'd so for now have to deal with that AIR crap that loops into the headers.

Lee7

so... why not just buy the 3.4 headers and then hook the oxygen sensor up to one of the connectors and then put a bolt (or something) in the other one?

FAST RS

3.1Firebird put 3.4 headers on his 3.1 but spend hours heating them up bending them heating them up and bending them to get the to fit right. Its becasue of a different style engine bay basicly

Project: 85 2.8 bird

that's how mine is set up right now. [except I kept the other O2 in place]

as for the bending part, if we can drag up the old post, find out how much needed to be bent, it might be a simple fix for pacesetter.

****Don't forget about all the 2.8l Blazers, S-10s, & Jeeps out there also ******

edit: It was his Grandfather who did the bending.

KED85

I GOT A REPLY!!!!!!
What I wrote------

Hello Mr. Gerle,
I represent several people on a website.
www.thirdgen.org
I'm from the site dealing with the 60* 2.8/3.1 V6 in a 1982-1992 GM F
Body.
We seek to purchase headers from your organization.
We wish to purchase STREET LEGAL SMOG APPROVED HEADERS for our 2.8-3.1
Multi Port Fuel Injected F Body rides.
The biggest complaint we have about our rides is the lack of a true high
performance exhaust system.

Your organization is currently seeking high performance header smog
approval for the 1993-1995 3.4 powered F body.
The difference between the 4th Gen F Body & the 3rd Gen F Body 60*
powered engine exhaust is only a few bends by the subframe.
The 3rd Gen F Body Oxy sensor is located on the "Y" pipe.
The 4th Gen Oxy sensor is one per exhaust manifold, located right at
cylinder head.
Take those 4th Gen Oxy sensor current holes, provide a plug to close
hole.
The EGR location for the 3rd Gen F Body & the 4th Gen F Body is THE SAME
PLACE.
I am currently using 1995 3.4 exhaust manifolds on my 1985 2.8 Firebird.

My 1985 Factory "Y" pipe bolted right back up no problems.
My 1985 EGR set up, connected right back up, to the 1995 EGR exhaust
manifold feed on the 1995 passenger side exhaust manifold I am using.
Listen to a growing market demand for this product.
I have asked other www.thirdgen.org V-6 members to also contact you, in
hopes of convincing you of our market demand and willingness to pay YOUR
ORGANIZATION for this product.
Include with the headers a 2 1/2" "Y" pipe, & 2 1/2" Intermediate pipe
all as a Kit, you'll make a small fortune off us!

I really hope to hear a reply.
THANK YOU for you moments.
Enjoy your day,

Fred's reply----PACESETTERS REPLY

1. Thanks for the interest!
2. From what you're saying, the 2.8/3.1 exhaust gasket will fit a 3.4?
3. I need a car to use for a couple days if we ever do this. It must be
stock at least from the manifolds to the converter(s).
FG


WHO CAN HELP THEM OUT IN PHOENIX AREA!

WRITE
SHOW LEGIT INTEREST!!

WRITE
SHOW LEGIT INTEREST!!

WE MAY ACTUALLY HAVE A CHANCE

I wrote & look what's happened so far!!!

Doward

Email... *click click*

Sent. :hail:

Xophertony

hey, to whome is in the phenix area, you may get free or reduced headers out of this deal!!!

SSC

Good deal!

You guys might want to visit http://web.camaross.com/forums/
Theres a few 3rdgen 90* guys that hang around there. I'll shoot pace setter an email anyway just to help the cause.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

To bad I'm not from arizona. If their was a half cheap, good quality system, I would "possibly" get it.

I seen a set of them 3.4l ones chromed, *drewl*.

TomP

I had saved 3.1Firebird's bending instructions, and recently reposted them. You guys (or Pacesetter) can read about them here: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...15#post1334714

I do see a glimmer of hope with all this; the guy seemed surprised that the 2.8 and 3.1 and 3.4 all share the same exhaust manifold gasket. Very cool. Way to kick butt, Karl!!

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Shows they don't do research.

TomP

LOL, they probably never had to! Funny in the directions that 3.1Firebird wrote up, he says that the Pacesetter gaskets suck, and to use FelPro!

KED85

Keep the action going!
We may actually WIN THIS TIME
Write Fred Gerle at
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com
let him know you will buy 3rd Gen Chassis 60* V6 2.8/3.1 HEADERS FOR STREET LEGAL USAGE FROM PACESETTER
if they make them!

F585

Did my part this took awhile to do cause I have no keyboard I had to paste all these letters together!
this is what I said
"If you made headers for the 2.8/3.1 60° V6 F-body I would purchase two pairs and many others from Thirdgen.org are looking for smog legal headers. One guy had bought headers for a 3.4 (they bolt right on to the 2.8/3.1's heads) but had to heat and bend them to fit because they hit the firewall. We also need a Y-pipe stock is horrible!!!

Richard"

KED85

KEEP THE TOPIC ALIVE
WE MAY WIN

THANKS!!

WE ALL BENEFIT BY SENDING MR. FRED GERLE OF PACESETTER EXHAUSTS A SHORT CONSTRUCTIVE EMAIL ABOUT SEEKING STREET LEGAL HEADERS FOR OUR APPLICATION.

WHAT PHOENIX AREA MEMBER CAN VOLUNTEER THEIR F BODY FOR THIS CAUSE?

I already have volunteered mine, as I also just passed CA Smog. I have volumteered to send a spare pair of my 1985 exhaust manifolds, for free!

Yet, I don't believe I'll get a free flatbed ride to Phoenix, tho!

Y2KFirehawk

I sent him an e-mail!! Thanks for gettin' our foot in the door Karl!

Edit: I'm continuing to save up for headers, but if the Pacesetter thing happens I will get them from there versus the sticky at the top. I already got butt raped with the C_H_C headers...

KED85

HEY EVERYONE
FOR OUR EFFORT
WE MAY ALL WIN!
Send Mr. Fred Gerle a short constructive email about our desire for SMOG LEGAL STREET HEADER FOR 2.8/3.1 60* V6 3rd Gen F Body product if PACESETTER EXHAUST manufactures it!

LET'S STICK EVERY FOOT IN THE DOOR WE CAN!
NEVER GIVE UP WHILE YOU ARE AROUND TO FIGHT THE GOOD BATTLE!

I hope we can convice Mr. Fred Gerle and Pacesetter that we want to give him money!

Keep this at the top to catch everyones attention!

Y2KFirehawk

I definately think this would be a great thing!!! I'm really anxious to see if I get a reply from this guy and perhaps they'll move on it! Heck we're all here with cash in hand!! Hard to resist I would think!

KED85

thanks for the offer, but we need a car. We have the flanges for the head, but a car is needed to route the tubing.
FG

THIS IS THE LATEST RESPONSE
WE ARE WINNING!

WHO IS IN PHOENIX AREA THAT CAN HELP ALL OF US!!!!????

PS I have offered my car (I'm in LA area, tho) and I offered to ship a pair of my spare 1985 exhaust manifolds, but PACESETTER AND FRED GERLE NEEDS A CAR!

Y2KFirehawk

That is what he wrote back in response to my e-mail. I live in PA so I'm even farther out!! If I was anywhere near I'd do it in a heartbeat, we really need someone in the AZ area. I'm going to go over to the other board I belong to (http://www.camarov6.com/) and post and see if I can find someone there that perhaps lives in AZ and could donate their car.

We are so close!!!

KED85

My FIRST RESPONSE!

Your car in CA is OK. People have come from that far away. We'll need the car for at least two days. Then, we can send a
production header when it's ready or you can come back for the installation.

THE SECOND RESPONSE
I guess what you need to do is help us find a "Phoenix local." The car must come to us.
Thanks.

WHO IS IN PHOENIX THAT CAN DO THIS!!!!
HELP US ALL OUT!!!!

Y2KFirehawk

Karl, so far it seems as though you are the closest. I'd be willing to put money towards renting you a car or something while they have it for 2 days! I am drooling at the mouth here....

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I don't plan on owning a set, but I would send a few buxs to a BOARD MEMBER via paypal for a car too, just to see something made for this engine.

To bad karls a busy man

KED85

FOR ME FROM ME.
I'd do it in a heartbeat.
My ride is "fragile" right now.
I have slight water leak & I need do the front nose for the best cooling for upcoming summer heat.

I have put out word to a Phoenix area person who is a member here.
Took me a while to recall his name.
We have some Phoenix area people whom can help.
We're this close, we will not fail!

Yes, I am busy, too.
I need finish a house I've bought to sell.
Just got more money for the final work to be done & need one more building inspection, drat!
But I did get money to finish the house HuRrah!

FAST RS

I would be welling to do it i have friends in scottsdale where i can stay but i wouldnt be able to do it til late august when i have a brake from school unless pacesetter woudlnt mind me comming in on a friday night and haveing it done by sunday so i can be at school monday. Karl do you think my camaro would have anyproblems being driving to AZ the onlything that makes me have second thoguhts is that i have 223,000 miles on the engine.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

it will take more than a weekend for them to work on your car. I'd say atleast 2weeks lets them take care of all the details required (even though there shouldn't be too much). They are loking to provide us with a service, give them time to do so.

KED85

We NEED a member to be in Phoenix for this help.
I got a hold of a bud in Tuscon but he's too far away
This guy is searching for us, for a V6 guy in the Phoenix area.
We have to give Pacesetter time to do the work for us, & for them, too.

No I wouldn't go very far on an original mile engine with 223,000 miles on it!

There has got to be someone out there that can do this.
I'D GO BUT I can't take off from working on my other house as I must relist it for sale very soon!

WE ARE THIS CLOSE
LET'S KEEP THINKING OF A WAY TO HELP PACESETTER HELP US!

THERE IS A SOLUTION we need find it!

Lee7

i thought you did a "3.4 SWAP BOOGIE DISCO" or whatever you call it?

n/m, you are not the one with 223,000 miles, its the other dude.

My fault.

F585

What does having a 3.4 have to do with it anyway?

Lee7

Because at first I thought he said he had 223,000 miles on his car, and i read a post like a month ago about him putting a 44,000 mile (IIRC) 3.4L into his FBody.

I was like "WTF? how did you put 179,000 miles on it in less than a year?"

And then i remembered that FAST RS was the one with 223,000 miles.

KED85

NOW WE GOT THAT STRAIGHT,
HELP US FIND A 3RD GEN MEMBER IN THE PHONEIX AREA THAT CAN DONATE THEIR CAR?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

COM'N WE ARE THIS CLOSE
WE CAN DO THIS
SOMEONE COME FORWARD TO HELP US!

Y2KFirehawk

Karl, what if we all pitched in enough money to rent you a car or something? I'm not sure how much that would cost, but that's an idea that I thought of. I posted on the other board (www.camarov6.com) and I didn't get any responses yet, or at least I don't think I did.

Mark

Lee7

or one could borrow an FBody from a freind...

Gumby

You need to hit up the other fbody boards.

ufba.org n others

Y2KFirehawk

I don't belong to any other ones, but that is a good suggestion. If anyone else belongs to other F-Body boards please post and see if you can find someone!! Just a simple post with a link to this thread would do fine.

Edit: I tried even playing with the Readers Rides thing but you can't specify location...

KED85

Karl, what if we all pitched in enough money to rent you a car or something?

THIS IS A VERY KIND THOUGHT AND OFFER
YET
I am a two house home owner
I am fixing a house I own for selling.
I am in the final stretch.
Using cheap labor (including my own!), the owner (ME!) MUST be present to ensure all work done right for reselling at max profit. And believe me when I say MAX PROFIT (greedy bastard that I am!)
I have too many pennies and EVERY SPARE PENNY invested to just up & leave RIGHT NOW! I ain't counting the sore muscles either (priceless!)

YET in about under two months... I could personally EASILY make the trip.

I may be speaking to Mr Fred Gerle on Tuesday.
He sent me an email asking me to phone him.

I am not giving up as I will be purchasing this product after I gain back funds from sale of other house!

I cannot tell ya how much I want to list this house for sale RIGHT NOW!

Y2KFirehawk

We all understand, and I really appreciate all your efforts that you have put into this to get the ball rolling. If Mr. Gerle can wait 2 months, if no one steps forth till then, then what's another two months when our cars have been without production headers for quite some time.

It would just be great if some came forth that lived near there...

KED85

thank you. We are ready to do it. We just need a car.
FG

This is our answer.
Pacesetter will build them IF they have the car and then we will come to their mountain as PACESETTER will have the ONLY CARB APPROVED STREET LEGAL HEADERS PRODUCED FOR OUR RIDE.
Imagine that, only after the car has
fadedd from production
AND
our specific application died back in 1992.
That's pretty darn decent!

LET'S NOT GIVE UP!!

WHO CAN TAKE THE BALL & RUN TO THE FINISH LINE.
I must pass the ball!

Doward

2 months wait? Screw that. I'll have my turbo project finished in about a month. If no one has stepped up by August 1st, I will personally make a road trip out there.

John

KED85

I sent Mr. Fred Gerle at Pacesetter an email asking if they may have the necesary car in a local wrecking yard, that can be donated/then returned after use for exhaust fitment/engineering purposes.
We'll see.
Maybe we can all buy that wrecked car & just donate it! LOL!!

I also mentioned in my email about the time frame. How SOON does PaceSetter need the car?

I already know the length of time needed to hold donated ride for engineering purposes (2-3 days).

THE MORE WE KEEP THIS ALIVE, THE CLOSER THIS BECOMES TO A REALITY!

PS $350-$000 for a LATE MODEL HIPO EXHAUST SYSTEM ain't that expensive. Try seeking headers for Corvettes, the last rear wheel drive Impala, etc.
Check those prices! Cheap headers are for the older muscle rides. I know personally as I was given a set of headers for my 1974 Corvette, for free.

IF ya wanna play gotta pay.....and we get great quality street legal stuff to boot, what's the problem? Adding about 15-20 HP is a great option for only $350-400!. My 3.4 mills only cost me $800-$900, tranny was $600 & $650. How much on tires? Stereos that weight a TON & sap high speed 1/4 mile missions!

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I said I would donate to rental car, I would donate for them to purchase salvage yard, then give car to charity to aution off for good cause.

But I prefure someone on our end to get free set, to let us know how they look, perform, etc.

Doward

Kinda why I'd do it... let them use my car as the test bet, then maybe see if they'd do me a new Y pipe to the turbo...

headers and Turbo? Life would be good!

Xophertony

i estimated 550 dollar cost for me to go down there from oregon, if i had some help i monitarily i could do this trip in like two weeks. my only commitment right now is my job, i could get time off,but i can't afford it. i could spring for about 200 of this trip (i could justify this if i got free headers) if somone else could help with the extra 350 i would do it.

i have only been a member of this board for three weeks, i don't even rewaly know what eftermarket headers do for you hp wise. i know they improve exhaust flow, i have looked at my stock headers, they take more twisats then a rollercaoster . that cant be good for flow. it would probably also improve the sound of my engine.

my car would work as it has stock exhaust all the way tot the cat. from then on its aftermarket. that won't matter will it?

anotherr amendment, i would be able to leave for phenix july 20th. i also have family in los angeles i could stay with for one night down and one night back.

how far is LA from phenox?

EDIT:
TOTAL ESTIMATED TIME:
6 hours, 4 minutes
TOTAL DISTANCE:
372.16 miles

ok, i could actually stay in la, drive to phoenix drop off car, get a ride back, stay in la, get a ride back once car is done. this would cut the cost of my trip down to like 300 bucks!!!! this is actually doable!!!

KED85

Seeking to keep this tpoic up top for all hope of a secure volunteer who can help all of us that is closer than Oregon.
YET when I mentioned the Oregon connection willing to truck to Phoenix, Mr Fred Gerle was rather impressed!
Actually it's about 5-8 hours from Northern Ca. to So Cal. on the 5 freeway.
Even at realistic legal speeds.
AND just so ya know, it was like 103* at my house today.
Yes, the pool felt real great at 3 PM today!

89v6firebird89

heck if I had known about this a month ago I would have taken my 2.8 down to northern NM with me and took it up there to let them bend the pipes for headers

KED85

YOU WERE TOO BUSY BEING "BOND, JAMES BOND", for your final high school days!
AND I asked ya about a month ago & ya mentioned ya going to UCI for orientation......thus......

91FIREBIRDGT

if my friend goes to arizona to get his engine for his Tahoe, I might go with him and might be able to let them borrow my car. MAYBE....we'll see.

KED85

Should know today about our Volunteer connecting with Mr. Gerle at PaceSetter.
He's 15 minutes away from Phoenix in Glendale AZ.
Alot of emails sent back & forth & back & forth.....

KED85

"Might as Well JUMP!"
Van Halen
I'll use this one to keep everyone up to date.
I'm gonna send an email to Mr. Gelre and seehow this is progressing.
KEEP THINKING THEM GOOD VIBRATIONS