drdave88

iTrader: (3)

im thinking of doing a 3.4L swap this summer, if i can get the $$. first off, what vehicles had the 3.4L RWD? im drawing a blank on that one. what else do i need from the vehicle to swap it in, other than the engine? i have an 88 2.8L with a manual. all ive done so far is a high flow cat and a dynomax catback. also, are headers available for it? do i need to rechip the prom i have, do i need a different PCM or can i just run it? i just want to know what im getting into before i do it. this is my first GM swap so im kinda new to it, and it will be my first engine swap w/ a PCM.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Congrats on the will to do a 3.4l swap.

You need the engine, duh, and use the 3.4l injectors. No ecm, wiring, special chip, none of that crap. Just tools, time, and some cash.

If you are going to complete prep the engine first. It is advised to get full gasket set. I say extra oil pan so you can drive car while you prep. You need a new flywheel from say a 3.1l manual, or 3.4l manual. Also will want a new piolit shaft bushing (if 3.4l wasnt manual).

Only the 93-95 Camaro and Firebirds had a 3.4l in them.

If you plan on moding the car, I would suggest getting the rockers while your at it, along with if you want nicer valve covers.

BTW, I could use the fuel injector rail wireharness with the little metal clips

KED85

Do a search or look for my tech thread about the 2.8-3.4 long block swap boogie.
That answers 90-95% of your querstions.
You'd be the second person who has a stick & did the swap boogie.
Headers LEGAL NO!
CHIPS NO UNLESS ON COOKIES OR CASINO TABLE.
THE SWAP IS WORTH IT SO MUCH SO.
YOU NEED STICK 3.4 FLYWHEEL!!
F-Bodies 1993-1995.
Also intro'd in 1995 was the 3.8 as standard V-6 engine.
CAN ALSO BUY 3.4 BRAND NEW
New is $1800+
Used is low of $210 & high of $900, avg about $600-ish.
Enjoy your decision.
The power is 165 HP & 200 FOOT POUNDS OF TORQUE!

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

would i reuse the sensors from the 2.8L? can i use the clutch and pressure plate from the 2.8L as well? they only have about 20,000 miles on them. would i have to get the intake ported to accomodate the larger ports on the heads? just some other stuff ive thought of. i want to make sure its gonna be for me before i do anything here. thanks for all the input.

KED85

Tips
EVERY 3.4 swapper reports tranny failure, inlcuding me.
Our lone stick guy, clutch failure, too.
Wanna take a chance?
Have you read my swap thread?
Ya reuse 99.9% of everything from the 2.8-3.1 engine
Add the 3.4 injectors, mentioned 3.4 flywheel & 3.4 balancer.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

i did read the tech article, loads of help!! what causes this trans failure? and is it fixed by replacing the clutch/torque convertor/trans, whatever failed or is it reoccurring?

KED85

what causes this trans failure?

200 FOOT POUNDS OF TORQUE!

Serious, seems our trannys are "marginally" rebuilt.
Mine was/were.
When I gave them my car with the 3.4 already installed, they gave it back, with right tranny rebuild.
Next weak link is the tranny mount, itself, too.
I've been thru two so far!
Both rubber. Cheap at $7!
For my Blazer swap, I've already rebuilt the tranny.
PS Plan for this swap job, being done once, right.

Glad you enjoyed the tech threads.
Buy the GM Performance Parts book at $6.95 at ANY GM DEALER & read up on the 3.4 mill.
That's my Firebird w/3.4 disguised for passing CA smog & it operates just fine.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

what was the name of the guy who did the manual swap? i want to know what he ran into and why so i can avoid it at all costs, lol. i need a new trans mount anyways, its looking a bit ragged after 133,000 miles.

KED85

I honestly do not recall.
YET added was a new clutch system & back to being good again!
New clutch, pressure plate, T/O bearing & resurfaced flywheel were the answeres for him.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

cool, so i should be good w/ what ive got. its got low miles on it. ive got some time to decide what i want to do still, i just wanted to get a heads up on what is to come.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Stick here, just finished swap. So far, no trans prob. Thats two days into it, HEHE.

devianb

So if you have an auto you still need the 3.4l flywheel?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Depends on year of current engine. Pre 88 the engine was balanced via flywheel.

89 and later, balanced via crank shaft.

thats why flywheel is "trick"

devianb

So what you are saying is that the pre 88s are externally balanced and the post 88s are internally balanced? I am still confused, I have an 87 automatic, so do I need the flywheel or not?

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

so how would that work for me? i need the 3.4 flywheel cause its a manual, do i use the 2.8 crank balancer and be ok or will i have to get it all rebalanced? that never even crossed my mind.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Lets put it this way.

If you have a 2.8l, you need to obtain a flywheel (auto or stick, per your application) from a 3.1l, or 3.4l.

KED85

When doing a 3.4 swap.
You RETAIN THE 3.4 BALANCER AND FLEXPLATE (auto) FLYWHEEL (stick).
One purchases a 3.4 mill, fully dressed.
Get all the stuff you can including the 3.4 "Y" pipe, exhaust manifolds, starter, alternator, 3.4 induction & 3.4 injectors & ignition system.
Then strip the 3.4 of all the 3.4 stuff.
Reassemble your new 3.4 mill with the 2.8/3.1 induction/ignition system, 2.8/3.1 pulley system, 2.8/3.1 electrical system, 2.8/3.1 sensors, using the 3.4 exhaust manifolds, injectors, balancer, & flexplate-flywheel.
Install, close hood, enjoy.
Make sure tranny is in primo shape, as you'll find out shortly if it was.
The problem lies with the instant gain of 200 foot pounds of torque & your happy right foot augmented by the wide faced grin.
I always recommned installing a 3.4 as is.
You won't be dissappointed, at all with that decision, as long as your original 2.8/3.1 stuff was restored to day one specs. Then upgrade exhaust & air intake system.
When ya read about the 3.4 mill from the GM Performance Parts catalog ($6.95! A MEASLY $6.95 at any GM dealer), you'll notice this mill is loaded with the best of the best parts of this current RWD60* engine series.
Think of a 3.4 as a "1970 Corvette or Z-28 350/370HP LT-1" of the 60* series.
A RWD 3.4 is truly that analogy.
YEAH the other 3.4 mills were "more powerful".
I said of the RWD 60* engine series.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

cool, i think i know all i need to now. now all i need is the cash and an engine. thanks for the input guys

Azure

Any slips from someone who's done the swap or at least an estimate..??? Curious as to what the results in our cars would be...??? lol..g*oddamn it, reading KED's posts makes me give up the desire to type in full sentences...!

KED85

I must admit I have reduced my sentence length, also.
Time slips?
There as the time I shot down a new shiny BMW trying to cut into my lane.
There was the time I got intotthe "I'm gonna make the traffic light" lane infront of a stupid SUV driver.
Those are the time slips I practice the most.
I am curious what my car can produce, also.
Yet the best time slip?
Stuck on the 405, in a blazing hot Winter Spring Summer Fall day, inching over the Sepulveda Pass, Air Conditioning Blazing, family content & comfortable!
I really built this ride to get past smog tests & what ever is thrown my way in So Cal traffic.
The upside out of my project is I discovered a great alternative to wasting one's time rebuilding or whatever on the little 2.8/3.1 mill. Just insert the 3.4 as is & go enjoy yourself. 99% of the old stuff swaps right over, it's a no-brainer/idiots swap dream come true. And I'm the biggest idiot!
This 3.4 powered Firebird ride is very enjoyable.
It's even more enjoyable than my old 1974 Corvette.
I can't wait to add the new front struts & then upgrade the original rubber bushings later his year.
Also mount & paint the new Firebird front nose I got. Then the interior gets done.
One day.
As long as this Firebird keeps my Wife & Son safe & on their missions, that's all that counts.

devianb

Yeah, thanks KED85. I thought I had to get something that wasn't a flywheel, which in my case is the flexplate from an automatic of the 3.4l since I have an auto.

Azure

rats.....hope someone can get an approx. 1/4 mile time... This swap seems more and more feasible the more I read...

devianb

Does anyone know the count of how many people have done the 3.4l swap in a thirdgen whether it was successful or not?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Ked claims he has walked about 30+ people thru. That being camaro/bird and s10's.

About 50+ on one of my s10 boards have done it. They prefure the crate engine though along with a different cam for more tourqe/towing.

muffler

well i have a 88 so is that a pre or after.
i just waiting for the summer to do it and now that u tell me that the tranny might go also (i have 212k on it)i guess i will rebuild that to

the one from gm performance does it include anything on engine or is it bare bones

Dale

iTrader: (12)

88, I belive that is the year that was 50/50.

If it has weights on it, its no good to ya. If it does not have weights, your good to go!!!

The GM crate is bare bones, and has not been done in a thirdgen yet that we know off. You would be first on that try!!! It says carbed engines only, but they run TBI's on them, and dont have problems. Not sure how it would react on a MPFI

KED85

You can go to GM parts Direct.com & ask for the 3.4 mill & check it that way.
To my knowledge, no, no one on third gen has done a NEW 3.4 mill swap boogie, yet.
Those mills, new are $1800 or so.
These new mills are just the engine & balancer & flexplate.
FROM WHAT I CAN DEDUCE, NEW 3.4 mill is identical to what went under the hoods of the 4th gen Firebirds/Camaros.
I have assumed about 30+ people here so far have swapped.
In all honesty, I promote this swap because it is a real viable option for fixing an ailing engine, dirt cheap, labor intensive, super easy detailed swap!
I also always say this, too
YA GOTTA REALLY LOVE YOUR RIDE TO PUT OUT THIS AMOUNT OF PERSONAL EFFORT & MONEY!
It is so worth it in the end.
I don't truly care about 1/4 times.
I ALSO ALWAYS SAY THAT
You WON'T WIN EVERY RACE
BUT ALL THE SUDDEN, TRYING, GOT A LOT MORE FUN!
I did my swap for passing CA smog testing & a quick fix for my broken 2.8 engine. I couldn't rebuild an engine (including parts & labor) for about the $800-$900-$1,000 it cost me to swap in the used low milage running 3.4 mills I've bought.
NOR WAS IT WORTH IT TO FIX THOSE LITTLE ENGINES
I recall being at my machinist once. Guy came in & had a Blazer or Truck (same things)
We were chatting
He told me he rebuilt the 2.8 engine but was very disappointed about the power restored compared to the money spent.
I recalled that meeting after I killed my Firebird engine & was wondering what to do.....
I hope I've given ya good answers to help in your decision.
IT is a very simple swap.
It is a very detailed swap.
I encourge you guys to do this, as I hate hearing anyone spending tons of money restoring these little things of an engine, compared to just going bye! & sticking in a finished running 3.4 engine.
The response I hear back from you guys is such a treat.
I can read the smiles on the computer screen!
Again the trannys goes because you are pushing MARGINAL POWER thru it now, with your current aged engine. Once ya get real power thru the tranny, it fails real quick, so it seems.
But seriously, every swapper, including me has gone thru tranny failure.
It's the nature of the beast pushing 200 foot pounds of torque when previously there was maybe 100 foot pounds of torque in that old aged engine!

READ UP ON THE 3.4 MILL BEFORE YOU BUY!

With the 3.4 Crate engine all ya need is 3.4 injectors from a wrecked car.

NO DO NOT THINK OF USING CURRENT 2.8 or the 3.1 injectors.

WHY TAKE A CHANCE ON USING SMALL AMOUNTS OF GAS FOR A LARGER ENGINE!

LARGER ENGINES NEED MORE GAS TO OPERATE YET CONSUME LESS GAS FOR USAGE DUE TO MORE TORQUE.

Read that again if it doesn't make sense, as it will!

devianb

Hopefully KED85, I will be number 32 that you helped through the swap. Although I will most likely have a machine shop build my engine for me since I am not capable of doing myself right now.

I was planning on rebuilding my 2.8l, but I want to finish building my car as soon as possible and I want it to be Naturally aspirated an still pass an emissions test.

What about the camshaft. I heard that the camshaft in the 3.4s are the same as the Crane Cams computer camshafts, which is what I would have gotten for the 2.8l. So should I just leave the current 3.4l cam in?

Doward

Yep.. My understanding is that Crane actually built the 3.4 cam - and it is IDENTICAL to the 2030...

Personally, I'm not gonna go through the trouble of the 3.4 swap. I've got a different path to wander.

Doward

btw, stock automatic 3.4s ran anywhere from a 16.4-16.8.... figure mid 16s - not sure of the weight difference in 4th and 3rd gens tho.

devianb

16's stock is a lot better than 17s with a few mods on a 2.8l. Since I was going to go with the 2030 Camshaft. I will just leave it in when I get around to getting a 3.4l.

KED85

Spend the few extra moments & dollars to read about what GM offers STILL for our 60* V-6.
You'll see that YES Crane was contracted to design & produce the 3.4 cam & the 2.8/3.1 replacement cam.
Again, I really suggest drop the 3.4 in, as is.
You'll be so pleased!
Find a running 3.4 or buy one new. At $1800, it's such a realistic bargin.
As ya can't rebuild a 3.4 mill for less than the engine cost & parts & labor for machining & swapping.
As I always warn the swapper
YA GOTTA REALLY LOVE YOUR CURRENT RIDE TO DO THE 2.8->3.4 LONG BLOCK SWAP BOOGIE.
It is very labor intensive, yet bloody simple swap.
Meaning, ya put the two blocks side by side & go from one to the other.
IT can be that simple if planned well.
I'd rather hear a smile from a swapper, anyday.
Ya only frown when you have discovered a weak link in the fun you are having in your new 3.4 powered ride.
That's called teething pains & every swap done, is a one of a kind, unique swap.
Ya have a chance to do something different.
My difference was to make it look like a 1985 2.8 for smog purposes.
Yeah that's a 3.4 in there.
Go buy the GM Performance Parts publication at a MEASLY $6.95!
Worth it for the research factor & pics & FACTS, alone.
Think of it this way...
You've been given a tech & question session with the GM Engineers who designed this stuff.
It's full of tech tips, too!
GM Engineers ain't no dummies, promise (ahhh few brains farts, sure...)!
The 2.8->3.4 Long Block Swap Boogie as a 1985 Federal S-10 Blazer carb version. That is a 1995 Camaro 3.4 at 50K miles. Need time to finish the details topass smog & ready to use again.
IT's starts, need adjust the rocker arms again RATS!

devianb

Awesome KED85. I am getting tired of you plugging that GM book. I am going to have to buy it now and see what all the commotion is about. Must be an excellent read for you to mention it in almost every post.

KED85

When ya take a browse, it's "like I need this magazine to keep for reference".
Serious, it's a wise investment.
I doubt you'll be upset to get it for the knowledge & facts.
I mean if ya gonna think of spending about $1000 to $2000 on an investment on your ride, shouldn't ya need to know more facts about your investment?
Money is very hard to come by these days.
Why really give it away on a whim?
UNLESS SHE HAS AN INCREDIBLE PAIR OF LEGS & IS A GREAT DANCER, TOO!