Keoki_Firebird89

What do you guys think i'll grab...
i've beaten a stock 305 tbi from zero... easy... it's an auto

plus i planned during the summer(it depends on my luck) of getting these mods
1.6 roller rockers(they come with pushrods right?)
fiero valve covers
valve springs to support the lift
3.73 rear end gears
160 t-stat

what would be my 1/4 with what i have now...
and with what i plan on getting

Keoki_Firebird89

oh ya... i plan on dropping in 19lb injectors too!

89' RS/blue

Just a note but 19 lb/hr injectors are too big for a v6, your car will most likely run rich.

krazycracka55

i ran a 17.7 when i was almost bone stock, all i had was the intake and exhaust at the time, and to make things worse, two of my wires were eaten all the way through
needless to say i had new plus/wires that weekend!
but now im saving to fix for that stOOpid extreme that hit me and took off!! should only be about a month now

Keoki_Firebird89

can any1 make a guess of what i do...
i think i know...

well for starters
i've beaten a 305tbi off zero... no problem
yes he was in great condition with a recent tune-up

89camaroRSV6

you are not entirely right....

with the right cam on the 2.8 ....i was running
lean with the 15 lbs

i switched to 19's ...im not entirely running rich
i only run rich when i start the car...sometimes its
a problem....

start burning chips...get tunercat...and a EPROM
burner....its easier than you think...you can run
even 22lbs if you program the injector pulsewidth
correctly....19lbs/hr is the max flow...we can always
run it at lower levels and have PE give a huge gain

Grim Reaper

Yes. About 6 months ago (before I became ill) I contacted TunerCat and they've developed the required "interface" called a TDF for both older MAF and new SD V6 F-body cars. Heck, you can now upgrade to a 3.4, add a bigger cam, "off road" heads (check out GMPerformance Parts) and reburn the eprom just like the V8 guys can.

There is no aftermarket intake for the V6 cars, but the MPFI intake is not a bad unit and not really that much of a restriction. A little pocket porting is all that is needed.

I am surprised to not see more V6 guys burning eproms now???

Keoki_Firebird89

whats this about better cam and heads... really interested... speak...

89camaroRSV6

1. u dont have to worry about messing with the
MAF / screens

the MAF will outflow the intake the way it is

2. u can port the intake manifold ...the upper
and lower....its very easy..just get some dremel
grinding wheels and gasket...while ur at it
gasket match it too....

3. dont bother messing with the Throttle body
that thing too right now can outflow the intake

cam ...the best cam that still is legal in terms of
emission is crane 2030 (204-214 .423IN .423EX)
i ahve this one with the 1.5 rockers ..im tryin to stay
emissions legal.

the most radical one thats readilyt available is
the wolverine blue racer (204-214 .423IN .443EX)
couple this with 1.6 roller rockers and fiero valve
covers...u ahve a fire breather....i can gaurentee
you will get atleast 30hp ...make ur own chip
after using ALDL software to see where u are
running lean...(ill bet that cam will make the car
run leaner)...if u are not worried about emissions

Im heavily into microcontrollers...ive tried to do
some piggy backcomputer chip and a sepertae
injector...but im out of money..lol

keoki firebird..if u have a 3.4 engine u already have
the crane 204-214 .423 .423cam...thats the stock cam in the 3.4s

i think the wolverine .423 .443 will fit ...

i noticed a great difference after i put the cam in

glenn...tunercat released the 2.8/3.1 tdf some time ago
there have been lots of beta testing in the prom board
and ive seen some impressive results...

Grim Reaper

89, I'm quite aware of TunerCat and their TDFs for the V6s...it was at my encouragement that they did that and I organized the beta testing for them.

Here's a link for some heads that bolt on to 60* V6. Heads are ALWAYS the key to power.

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/perform...CATID=190.html

Also, there are some "hotter cams yet" (without going to a mechanical cam which can be fun).

Comp Cams (PN# 16-233-4) is a 260/260 (212/212 @ .050) and .440/.440" lift with 110 LSA.

Crane H-272-2 272/284 (216/228 @ .050) .454/.480" lift with 112 LSA.

I think the Comp Cams would be a nice cam that would work well with the V6's intake. It's a single pattern grind similar to the Lingfelter grind with his Superram on V8s. It would be lumpy without being too radical. In a 3.4 it would definitely shock a V8 or two.

The Crane H-272-2 is quite radical for a small motor that would work on the street. You would need a fairly high compression ratio (at least 10.5:1) IMO to work well. I don't know if Rhodes makes variable lifters for the 60* V6 but this would help tone down this cam for idle for street use, but allow it to scream at the top end.

89camaroRSV6

yeah i remember you orgranising the events...u ok now man...i was
away from the board for a while too...schoolwork

the cams that u mentioned....definitely need a modified chip
the cams i mentioned will work with teh stock chip
the crane 2030 has a idle vacuum of 14-15
which is still ok....the more agressive the cam
the more the vacuum is going to go down...bad for idle
my car idles at 1000RPM ....otherwise its very bad
(its also a good idea to invest in a vacuum gauge)

do u know the rhodes website....is it like a VTEC
mechanism??? how does the variable lifters work?

pontiacguy1

That's some good info there, Glenn91. I was looking at the parts catalog yesterday, and Wolverine makes all the parts needed to upgrade the valve train in our engines. The only thing I don't know if they make or not is the roller rockers. They do have valve springs, retainers, cams in the above mentioned grinds, and timing chains. I was thinking about going with their high perf. valve springs in my 3.1 liter.

To TRY to answer the original question about 1/4 mile times... if you are making 25 to 30 more HP with all of that, then you should be able to go about .6 to .75 seconds faster than you are now. That's just my guess, so don't take it for gospel or anything close to that.

89camaroRSV6

well to answer the original question ...

i went a 15.9

with all the stuff..ive doen to the car

NHRATA01

The rule of thumb is roughly every 10hp gain gives you a 1-1.5 tenths in the 1/4.

Grim Reaper

Yes, but now that TunerCat has TDFs, the hotter cams can easily be made to work. Personally, I think even a stock engine benefits from a custom prom that you do yourself - crisper performance while getting better gas mileage.

As for idle, you would need to experiment with it. Even with emissions, you can often get the engine to make reasonably good vacuum at 800 rpm. Automatics are usually more tricky than standards.

Basically, I'm saying that there is nothing that you can't do to a V6 that you can do to a V8 now that tuning the eprom is possible.

Go to this website http://www.amotion.com/tech/rhoads.html on the Rhoads Variable Lifters and how they work.

Go here to http://www.rhoadsproducts.com/why.asp for HITHERE link to Rhoads Products. You can buy them from Summit. All you need to know is the size of the lifter.

These were quite popular in the older days before hydraulic roller lifters became the latest craze.

EDIT: I fixed this post for the HITHERE April Fool gag that messed up so many of the posts yesterday so it's now readable.

92Z28CamaroRulz

WHAT THE HITHEREHITHEREHITHEREHITHERE IS WITH THE HITHERE

pontiacguy1

QUOTE: The rule of thumb is roughly every 10hp gain gives you a 1-1.5 tenths in the 1/4.

I am aware of the rule of thumb you stated above. My guess comes from the fact that the cars are much lower powered than your typical V8 car, so adding 30 HP will be a much more noticeable and substantial gain on a car that orginally made 135 HP than it is on one that originally made 215 HP.
Not saying that I am right, but just explaining my guess. The rule of thumb probably works pretty good for cars running in the 14-13 second time frame, but much above or below that, it is probably off by a good bit.

Grim Reaper

Pontiacguy is very correct. The "rule of thumb" of 1/10th for every 10 HP is valid only in the 13.00-14.99 range on a 3,000-3,500 lb car. Assuming the weight is within that range, it will take a lot more than 10 HP once you are in the 12s (or lower) to go 1/10th of second quicker. While it will take less than 10 HP gain to go 1/10th of second quicker. The greater the difference between your cars's actual time from 13-14 seconds, the more pronounced the difference. (ie. it takes a minor HP increase when you car is in the 19 second range while it will take a LOT of HP when you are in the 10 second range.)

Also, HP is one thing, Torque is another. Two cars of identical weight with the same HP but one produces more TQ, the one with more TQ will accelerate quicker (provided traction is not a problem). But the one with more TQ will break drive train components quicker too (if they are the same).

Bottom line, there is a lot more than just HP when it comes to acceraltion and how much of a gain you will experience from a given change in HP.

Keoki_Firebird89

i'm not worried about emissions at all... i have no problems with that...

so wolverine blue racer cam
1.6s with the fiero...

where can i get the cam... how much...?
the 1.6s which company?... how much?
fiero valve covers... i'll no problem with that...

umm and porting
i'm assuming after all that i can get bigger injectors and fuel pump?