John92RS

A friend of mine has a 90 degree supercharger sitting on the floor of his garage made for a 2.8-3.4 camaro. I'm running entirely stock right now. Any idea of what kind of power gain I would get out of this modification? Would I have to modify anything else to handle the increased power?

John92RS

I just read the thread titled "adding hp to v-6? supercharger? " and it seems everyone says this is not possible... For a mere $150, (assuming it is indeed possible) wouldn't the power increase be dramatic?

MDv6man

Got an extra $150 just burning a hole in your pocket? Get it. At that price, the power gains may be worth it. Are you sure its made for a 2.8-3.4 Camaro and not for a 3.8 camaro? theymake SC's for the 3.8.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

90 deg does not equal a 2.8-3.4!!!

If its 90deg supercharger, its for the 3.8l

John92RS

it may not be a 90 degree charger... they do make them for 3.4's right? i hope so

Nixon1

2.8's and 3.1's are 60 degree engines. A 90 degree charger won't work!! I've never heard of one for a 3.4 either...it wasn't a very widely made motor. Only for a few years in the 4th gens.

John92RS

my car is a '92... it isn't considered a third gen? =\

John92RS

its a 3.1, i'm stupid!

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Supposibly project85 has found that some company is in the R&D process making one for the 3.4l.

The ONE 3.8l supercharger I have heard of a guy adapted from a v8 one. But I hear they started making them shortly after that.


If it IS for a 3.4l, PLEASE give a brother a brand and part number

pontiacguy1

I have never heard of a supercharger of any kind made to fit the F body 60 degree V6. I do remember one made in the mid 1980s to fit S10 trucks with a carb. It was a roots type blower, and I remember seeing it in a magazine article. They were pretty expensive and I am sure very rare. I think that they added about 45 HP to the engine, running only about 4 or 5 pounds of boost. That is all that I remember about them. For a while it was a semi-popular thing to make bolt on supercharger units for the engines available in mini-trucks. I remember there was also one for the 20R and 22R Toyota motors. Once again, very rare and expensive. I am sure that none are still being made, and few were probably ever made. I am sure if you could possibly find one, it would work on a carbed F-body.

91FIREBIRDGT

I've seen superchargers out there for the 3.4L V6 i dunno if they still make them though

KED85

K & F is the item PontiacGuy1 is speaking of.
The guy wanted $2500 for the SC unit cause his was CARB approved.
It was for Carbs on S-10 trucks.
Same item also used for the TBI of the S-10 truck line also.
Paxton did make a centrifical item. Tho not to popular.
B & M made a 60* SC also, wasn't smog legal, thus "product went away".
Fagoel still makes the SC units for the truck line. Still expensive still only CARB/EPA approved item.
Fagoel is down by San Diego way in CA.
Approved for TRUCK vehicles only MAYBE adapted to Fieros. Also used on the Jeep vehicles with the 60* mill under the hood.

This topic is so old.
Do a search & you'll see lots of discussions
No one has purchased one. Ya get it cheap MAKE SURE all the parts are there and the bushings are very good condition.
OR else ya may be just close to buying a paperweight.
I last saw one (K & F) for sale at swap meet for $500

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I found a website somewhere that a guy had found a carberated supercharger for his s10, and was adapting it to fit tbi.

No offense, but 45hp does not seem like alot. Hopefully that was all stock other then the sc.

John92RS

My car is a 3.1L and the supercharger kit is for a 3.8L. I apologize if some of the things I am asking may sound lamely easy to answer, but I am quite new to the whole F-body scene. Is it possible to bore the engine out .7 Liters to adapt to this supercharger?

pontiacguy1

I do believe that it was an otherwise stock engine, but still, 45 HP is a big gain for that motor. Think about it, the Carbed 2.8 was only about 100 HP from the factory. That's about a 45% gain in power, from just a bolt-on, which is about what the newer supercharger kits will deliver on an otherwise stock engine. I am sure that you could use some stronger internals, a better exhaust and more boost to get a lot more out of it.

pontiacguy1

John: To answer your question: No, it is not possible. The 2.8 liter, 3.1 liter, and 3.4 liter engines are all 60 degree V6 engines. The old 3.3 liter, the 3.8 liter, and the 4.3 liter are all 90 degree V6 blocks. They are a completely different platform with different bore spacing, cranks, heads, intakes... basically everything is completely different. Even if you could bore and stroke a 3.4 liter engine out to 3.8 liters, nothing else would be the same.

You have the same engine that I have in my car. There are things that you can do to get more power out of it, but they are limited compared to some of the other more popular engines out there.

KED85

I have several test articles of that K & F Unit. ALong with the K & F brochures.
Yep it increased the HP by about 45 HP the torque was a GREAT GAIN, tho.
NOW Grumpy Jenkins also made a special 2.8 package.
Modded intake, cam, etc.
HP gain was the same, YET not smog legal.
BACK THAN that K & F unit, along with the B & M & The Paxton were the SC options.
THEN came better HP from the V-8, gas became easier & cheaper again, etc.

No simply put, ya cannot bore out a little 60* V-6 for bolting on the SC for a 90* engine.

Math is simple.
Executing it ain't gonna happen.

Back to the drawing board awaiting the next package from "ACME industries" went Willey E. Coyote, still hungry for the Road Runner.

PS your simple solution is to sell this current ride & grab a V-8 Powered 3rd gen ride for cheap.

white89v6

Here is a supercharger made by rotrex for a 2.8L
fiero. The mounting bracket mounts where the ac
mounts.

white89v6

another

white89v6

I believe this one is for a 3.4L. I found this
one at JC whitney

KED85

Nice for the JC Whitney one.
What's the price
Is it smog/street legal?

devianb

ummmm.. the only supercharger for a 60 degree Fuel injected car is for the newer 3.4l FWD Grand Ams. The super charger won't come any where near close to being adaptable to the RWD 60 degree in a thirdgen.


The most difficult part about putting a supercharger onto a RWD 60 degree engine is that custom bracket and finding a place to mount the super charger, bending the pipes, then you have to worry about customizing the fuel and air tables via custom chip.


You won't gain the power you would expect since most street superchargers are 4-8 psi.


A turbo would be the better for performance. Talking about turbocharging a 60 degree V6 in a thirdgen is like talking about flying cars. Its a novel idea, but know one takes it seriously. Its more like a fantasy.



You only need 2 things to turbo the 60 degree V6 in a thirdgen

1) to be eccentric or crazy enough to do that to that particular
engine

2)money



Most of us hear lack either one or 2 of those things. I am actually crazy enough to actually want to do it. All I need is the money, which I don't have since I am in college.


If I ever became rich, I would definately turbocharge my 2.8l. One philosophy that I value the most is having something unique that is different from everyone else. I would like to be the first one here to successfully do it just so I can see a bunch of these

:hail: :hail: :hail:



That's all a dream until I get some serious money, so until I get that extra money, I am not going to talk about turbocharging or superchargine any 60 degree V6.

Sorry for the long message, but I had to get that off of my chest.

OnixV6

that's an RKSport SC for the 4th gen 3.8L

white89v6

probbably just taking a guess, but the otherone is
for a 60 v6 for a fiero.

devianb

Even so it still won't fit.

steve8586iroc

Chevy had a turbo'ed 2.8 Monty Carlo in the early eighties and it was a carb one at that.

TomP

Any supercharger will fit; you just have to make it possible.

Which nobody ever will; same with the turbo idea.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I have seen 60deg engines get turboed/supercharged.

One 3.4l TBI blazer got a supercharger
Two 3.4l camaros turboed
One 2.8 datsun 510 with a 2.8lmpfi twin turboed.

It can be done, its just time, money, sources for the parts needed.

devianb

We all know about those cars, but not a single one of them is a thirdgen, which is more important to us since we drive them.


I think someone needs to do it for a thirdgen. The part that steers most people away is the cost to benefit. Realistically, to turbocharge or supercharge a fuel injected 60 degree V6, you would pay at least 4k to achieve about 50 extra bhp, which most people realize is not worth it expense wise.

Still, it would be a novelty if it was actually done. For me, the expense would be worth the "wow" factor. That would make any thirdgen unique.

John92RS

i will make it work! the supercharger is someway adapted to fit a 3.1 - dont ask me how, i couldn't tell you.. all i know is that its sitting in a '92 camaro right now, and we just gotta rip it out and drop it in my ride... we got enough parts and skill between a few of us to get the job done. i'll be posting pictures soon enough! thanks for all the response guys! i appreciate it.

KED85

You be the first one to do this.
This SC/Turbo idea dead list is at close to 500 different threads and counting.
Good luck
Be aware of the compression change due to engine requirements & lack of deecnt gas anymore.
Meaning.
Lately read this.
MANY SUPERCHARGER SET UP REQUIRE 92 OCTANE FUEL OR HIGHER.
That magic octane number seems to be getting lower all the time.
I read MANY SC people/owners/drivers experienceing massive amount of engine ping due to lousy gas.
Weight the long term cost benefits & you'll see a 3rd gen v-8 ride is way better for your go fast plans.

Keep us abreast of the cost factor.

A V-8 3rd gen ride for sale, start at $200 in CA.

I can hear the voice fading nto the sunset now.....
Do a search to see the "heros" trying to install a turbo or SC.
About 500 threads and counting now one more.
Best thoughts.
Find a V-8 ride. Cheaper.
Oh is this a bad statement?
Ask the manufactures who made the SC units for the 60* rides. They dropped out of the plan, too.
Was wasted effort for them, also.

Keep us posted.
We all await the first pic.

NHRATA01

There was a 3.1 Turbo Grand Prix in 1990, how hard would it be to fab that setup up for RWD?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Quite a bit. FWD cars the intakes were turned around backwords. Along with the headers/manifolds are completely bent differently.

however, if you could just the the turbo "blower" part from it, you would know it is the correct size for the engine.

devianb

It would still be hard because the the rwd and fwd blocks are different enough for external accessories to not be interchangable. The bracket would have to be mounted in a different location and would have to have new holes drilled to mount it.



Someone would have to be crazy or insane to do a turbo or supercharger on a non carbed or tbi rwd 60 degree V6.



To me, turbocharging or supercharging tends to be a dead end street for our engines. You may get started on it, but inevitably, you run out of road and have to turn back to something else.

KED85

An FYI to the turb'd GP ride of the early 1990's
First
Done by a place with deep pockets
The places were
McClarn Racing Tecnology (I misspelled McClarn sorry). These people have a little business that builds RACE CARS FOR FORMULA ONE & INDY RACING LEAGUE & CART TEAMS.
AND ASC (also known as American Sunroof Corporation-a little company that made all the sunroof designs for Detroit cars (starting in 1972) back when convertibles were being phased from marketplace by possible cogressional ROLL OVER LAWS & WOMEN NOT WANTING THEIR FANCY HAIRDOOS TO BE MESSED UP BY WIND IN HAIR!-Serious on those FACTS!)
Like they (both places money & technology) know what they doing.
What was the last race car engine you designed? How about your friends? Did it even lap Indy or Michigan Speedway or you get cut on Indy Carburetor Day testing?
Second the FWD mill is such a different beast than our RWD engines.
The heads for FWD are better & different
The intake MATCHES THE HEADS AND YA CAN'T INSTALL A FWD HEAD & INTAKE ON A RWD VEHIClE & EXPECT TO TURN THE KEY AND DRIVE TO CLAIM STREET HERO STATUS.
Unless your street is on a computer screen.

I can hear the idea drain opening rather quickly now as another one sinks down the tubes.

Can I get another dollar for sinking this idea? I need the gas money!

devianb

Thats really funny KED, you must have fielded a thousand supercharger, turbo, and fwd 60 degree engine questions.

KED85

I WISH I FIELDED A 1,000 & got a buck for each one.
I only want you guys to relaize what can/can't be accomplished with a dollar these days.
NOT STOP DREAMING
There are to many out there to burst ya bubble every day & steal the bucks while doing it!
FIND A WAY TO ATTAIN YOUR DREAM
Be realistic
These little 60* V-6 things ain't the answer to street rodders glory. They weren't back when introduced to the public (1979!!!) & they ain't now.
BUT GM has made progress on this 60* jewel we own.
BUT ya gotta buy a new ride to enjoy the upgrades done by GM engineers (See latest Car Craft to see the latest 60* engines!)
Accept the limits and have fun in between!
Remember you do own a piece of American Hot Rod history even with the little V-6!
My Wife 1968 Camaro Six Cylinder Secretary Special (6, auto/console/power steering/AM Radio) is the perfect example of what I mean.
It's a classy classic ride.
NO HONDA TOYOTA WHAT EVER JAP BEER CAN EVER CLAIM THAT PIECE OR TITLE FOR AMERICAN STREET RODDER HISTORY.
We Third Gen owners hold that title, lock, stock and barrel.
Defend it with honor.
Give up on turbo/SC this & that.
JUST DRIVE IT!
ENJOY IT!

NHRATA01

Hey KED take a breather bud, no way in hell I have any plans with modding my 2.8 (I've already got a well modded LS1). I just vaguely remembered the turbo 3.1 and was curious if that application could be made to fit a rwd Fbody.

KED85

Don't worry about me Argentina!
Sorry Madonna!
IF ya really want to see a modded V-6 60* JEWEL
go get the latest Car Craft mag & see what's in the future, VERY NEAR FUTURE for these 60* things!
I only hop up these V-6s by cubic inches.
Why ya think I only do 3.4 swaps?
Street legal, powerful, no brainers hardly any effort it works great & runs right.
GM gave up on turboing these things.
BUT
GM hasn't given up on the DOHC idea.
Go get Car Craft & SEE WHY!
I enjoy hearing of everyone enjoying their ride in class & style & graceful road manners.
Dreaming of SC & turbo's, really wish I had a dollar for every idea said.
I could pay cash for my Wife's new minivan.
I will be, just not from the ideas hatched here or on someones computer screen.

RELAX!

devianb

You make a good point KED85.

I have know the limits of what the 2.8l is capably of for quite some time, I just didn't want to believe it.

I plan on doing the 3.4l swap with a port and polish, headers, and a few other performance part. It won't be any hotrodding engine, but it will be enough of an improvement over my current 2.8l to be happy with for years.



I am not even going to attempt or think about doing a turbo or supercharger setup, unless I become a millionaire or win the lottery, and if that happens, I will definately go through with it, not for any performance increase, but just to be that one guy who turbo charged a 60 degree V6 in a thirdgen.



Some where out there is a white 91 Camaro with a Turbo 3.1 that was successfully done by some shop in the southwest. The details, whereabouts, and information on it are unknown since it was done. That car is almost like myth except that I have seen it, but that was a loooooong time ago.


That is one particular car I would like to track down.

KED85

IF gas octane would be increasing again, I'd do a SC unit from Paxton. IN a heartbeat.
Gas octane only going down.
In response to that, I have to redesign my LT-1 for my 1967 RS/SS Camaro Convert 4-speed to live on gas pump gas w/o additives in a can.

Wait until ya install a 3.4 as is.
You'll be thinking twice about any new toys to add to the mill, from GM, as is.
These 3.4's stock are mighty fine engines.
Very powerful & strong
IT PULLS LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN!
IF I find headers for the 2.8-> for my Blazer at a swap meet, I may add those. Only if price is right (like $50 or less).