tips for the sniffer?
07-08-2002, 09:38 PM
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tips for the sniffer?
i have to take my car to the emissions place, what are some tips to insure that i will pass?
i recently did a new distributor, new coil, new plugs, new 02 sensor new catco converter, i cant think of anything else i did emmissions wise.
what other things do they check?
i am in Maryland by the way,
how tough is it to pass here?
i recently did a new distributor, new coil, new plugs, new 02 sensor new catco converter, i cant think of anything else i did emmissions wise.
what other things do they check?
i am in Maryland by the way,
how tough is it to pass here?
07-08-2002, 09:54 PM
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gas cap
It wouldn't hurt to throw a new gas cap on there . They do check em . If ya want a little security while your at it , throw a locking one on there , I have one and like it .
Do they look under your hood ? ...If so , they may not like that cold air setup .
Man ! I gotta get me some of those hi performance floor mats !!! 12 hp huh ?
:sillylol: 
Do they look under your hood ? ...If so , they may not like that cold air setup .
Man ! I gotta get me some of those hi performance floor mats !!! 12 hp huh ?
:sillylol: Last edited by WaynesRS; 07-08-2002 at 09:57 PM.
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07-09-2002, 07:59 AM
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Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
It wouldn't help to lean the motor out. You'll raise the hydrocarbon (HC) count.
A search for "emissions" on the "V6 forum" will dig up some info for you. You could also search for the same on the general tech forum. Here's one message:
A search for "emissions" on the "V6 forum" will dig up some info for you. You could also search for the same on the general tech forum. Here's one message:
Originally posted by TomP
A quick class on emissions basics... I think you can find longer messages by me on here by searching the V6 forum for for "emissions" or "smog" written by TomP....
HC = unburnt fuel, usually the result of an incomplete combusion cycle. This points mostly to a bad ignition system. They say that one car that's misfiring on ONE cylinder will create the same amount of emissons as 10 "perfectly running" cars! So, what to look at? Check the resistance of all your plug wires (remove one at a time) with an ohmmeter to make sure none are way off spec. Remove the plugs, clean them with a wire brush, and regap them. Remove the distributor cap & rotor, and remove all carbon tracking from the terminals with a file. Don't file down the metal of the terminals! (If you or something else doesn't know what carbon tracking inside a cap looks like, check out my page here: http://www.geocities.com/tomp_3rdgen/burnt-cap.html Usually the carbon tracking is just on the terminals, not the cap plastic itself!) Check the timing, set it to stock specs (10 degrees advanced/BTDC)!
CO = not enough air into the motor. So what you asked is what I always suggest- buy two cheap-as-hell air filters, and put them in just for the drive to and from the testing center. Get home, and put your K&N's back in, and put the cheapies back in the box for next year.
NOx = caused by situations with high compression and high combustion temperatures. Too bad this is how we make HP! The EGR reduces NOx's by reintroducing exhaust gas into the motor, which, oddly enough, has a cooling effect on the explosion inside the cylinder. (You can't burn exhaust as well as you can burn fresh air, so the explosion is calmed down.)
All 3 of these are also affected by the catalytic convertor. If it's in poor shape or gutted, a replacement might significantly drop the smog #s. You can usually get a high-flow aftermarket bolt-in (not weld-in like an auto store will try to sell you) cat for $60-$80. Hot Rod did HP/emissions testing with an open pipe, high flow cat, and NEW GM cat. The new GM cat dropped HP by one or two points, but reduced the emissions over 3 times than that of the aftermarket cat. Two points to note: GM knows how to make a cat that's less restrictive, as opposed to their "first tries" in the 70's. Two, the GM cat reduces emissions much more than a high flow, so if you have a problem car, you might want a GM cat. Problem #1: GM wants upwards of $300 for one of their cats.
High HC = check ignition system for misfire
High HC + high CO = running rich. Try changing the air filter
High HC + normal CO = running lean.
High NOx = check EGR valve, think about replacing the cat.
Oh- I used the "Guaranteed 2 Pass" additive, the local Pep Boys carries it. For my first test on the new NJ dynos, my mechanic was amazed at how low my #'s were. The second test, I barely passed- and now, I think it's because of that distributor cap. I never bothered to check underneath, like I had for Test #1 in 2000- and then I betchya I would've found that melted rotor button! I think that's why I was borderline failing. The addtives are supposed to clean the catalytic convertor somehow, as well as clean the fuel injectors.
A quick class on emissions basics... I think you can find longer messages by me on here by searching the V6 forum for for "emissions" or "smog" written by TomP....
HC = unburnt fuel, usually the result of an incomplete combusion cycle. This points mostly to a bad ignition system. They say that one car that's misfiring on ONE cylinder will create the same amount of emissons as 10 "perfectly running" cars! So, what to look at? Check the resistance of all your plug wires (remove one at a time) with an ohmmeter to make sure none are way off spec. Remove the plugs, clean them with a wire brush, and regap them. Remove the distributor cap & rotor, and remove all carbon tracking from the terminals with a file. Don't file down the metal of the terminals! (If you or something else doesn't know what carbon tracking inside a cap looks like, check out my page here: http://www.geocities.com/tomp_3rdgen/burnt-cap.html Usually the carbon tracking is just on the terminals, not the cap plastic itself!) Check the timing, set it to stock specs (10 degrees advanced/BTDC)!
CO = not enough air into the motor. So what you asked is what I always suggest- buy two cheap-as-hell air filters, and put them in just for the drive to and from the testing center. Get home, and put your K&N's back in, and put the cheapies back in the box for next year.
NOx = caused by situations with high compression and high combustion temperatures. Too bad this is how we make HP! The EGR reduces NOx's by reintroducing exhaust gas into the motor, which, oddly enough, has a cooling effect on the explosion inside the cylinder. (You can't burn exhaust as well as you can burn fresh air, so the explosion is calmed down.)
All 3 of these are also affected by the catalytic convertor. If it's in poor shape or gutted, a replacement might significantly drop the smog #s. You can usually get a high-flow aftermarket bolt-in (not weld-in like an auto store will try to sell you) cat for $60-$80. Hot Rod did HP/emissions testing with an open pipe, high flow cat, and NEW GM cat. The new GM cat dropped HP by one or two points, but reduced the emissions over 3 times than that of the aftermarket cat. Two points to note: GM knows how to make a cat that's less restrictive, as opposed to their "first tries" in the 70's. Two, the GM cat reduces emissions much more than a high flow, so if you have a problem car, you might want a GM cat. Problem #1: GM wants upwards of $300 for one of their cats.
High HC = check ignition system for misfire
High HC + high CO = running rich. Try changing the air filter
High HC + normal CO = running lean.
High NOx = check EGR valve, think about replacing the cat.
Oh- I used the "Guaranteed 2 Pass" additive, the local Pep Boys carries it. For my first test on the new NJ dynos, my mechanic was amazed at how low my #'s were. The second test, I barely passed- and now, I think it's because of that distributor cap. I never bothered to check underneath, like I had for Test #1 in 2000- and then I betchya I would've found that melted rotor button! I think that's why I was borderline failing. The addtives are supposed to clean the catalytic convertor somehow, as well as clean the fuel injectors.
07-09-2002, 02:08 PM
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Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
Well; you could, but you'd have to be careful of a few things. If they look under the car or "hear" a leak, and see the pipe damage, they could fail you. Also, if an exhaust leak is near the oxygen sensor, the backpressure will suck fresh air into the pipes. The oxygen sensor will have a fit, think that you're running too lean, and richen the fuel mix- and there goes emissions. Do you have to go through the dyno test or just the regular 'ol tailpipe sniffer? We have the damned dynos in NJ... the 5015 test- 50% load at 15 mph.
07-09-2002, 05:27 PM
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Car: 1991 CAMARO 1968 FIREBIRD
Engine: CAMARO 3.1L FIREBIRD 455
Transmission: CAMARO 700R4 FIREBIRD TH-400
Just get some emissions 104 or this stuff in a little red bottle at autozone its 6 bucks an di herd it works great.
07-09-2002, 09:38 PM
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Car: 1991 CAMARO 1968 FIREBIRD
Engine: CAMARO 3.1L FIREBIRD 455
Transmission: CAMARO 700R4 FIREBIRD TH-400
When they smog my car im aways afraid its gonna go forward into the wall lol any one elese have that fear cuz most of the peoiple dont know what they r doin. First time i had my car smog'ed the guy insisted i had DUAL Exhaust cuz i have a single in dual out i hada explain to him it was single exhaust.
Why do they check the gas cap i never could figure that out.
Why do they check the gas cap i never could figure that out.
07-09-2002, 09:43 PM
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Car: 86-FireBird
Engine: -MPFI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
There use to be stuff you could buy in a bottle that had a money back thing if you failed your smog test. some crap you add to a few gallols of gas before you take the test.
what ever is in it will fool the test equipment and you car will still run ok. after the test fill the tank to water down the stuff.
i seen it on a few car shows before.
what ever is in it will fool the test equipment and you car will still run ok. after the test fill the tank to water down the stuff.
i seen it on a few car shows before.
07-09-2002, 09:55 PM
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Car: 1991 CAMARO 1968 FIREBIRD
Engine: CAMARO 3.1L FIREBIRD 455
Transmission: CAMARO 700R4 FIREBIRD TH-400
Emission 104 or the stuff in the little red bottle at autozone.
07-09-2002, 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by TomP
It wouldn't help to lean the motor out. You'll raise the hydrocarbon (HC) count.
It wouldn't help to lean the motor out. You'll raise the hydrocarbon (HC) count.
Originally posted by TomP
CO = not enough air into the motor. So what you asked is what I always suggest- buy two cheap-as-hell air filters, and put them in just for the drive to and from the testing center. Get home, and put your K&N's back in, and put the cheapies back in the box for next year.
CO = not enough air into the motor. So what you asked is what I always suggest- buy two cheap-as-hell air filters, and put them in just for the drive to and from the testing center. Get home, and put your K&N's back in, and put the cheapies back in the box for next year.
07-14-2002, 05:21 AM
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Car: 1991 CAMARO 1968 FIREBIRD
Engine: CAMARO 3.1L FIREBIRD 455
Transmission: CAMARO 700R4 FIREBIRD TH-400
Oh ya Just make sure your car is in perfect running condition and everything is the way it should be and you will have no problem. The first time i had my car i my SES light on and they still passed me. Also make sure your car is at normal operating tempature 220 thats when a car will run more efficent. Thats why people say if you put a lower T stat in that you wont pass smog.
07-15-2002, 10:28 AM
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Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
Originally posted by OnixV6
fuel is hydrocarbon. leaning means less fuel. how will leaning "raise the hydrocarbon (HC) count"?
fuel is hydrocarbon. leaning means less fuel. how will leaning "raise the hydrocarbon (HC) count"?
If your fuel mix is too lean, the spark plug won't ignite it as easily, and you wind up with a misfire- and that gas you didn't burn will go right out the tailpipes. Trust me. 
two cheap-as-hell air filters will restrict air even more. how will this help lower CO?
For the past two tests, I've put the "Guaranteed to Pass" in my tank; the local Pep Boys sells it, for (I think?) $8.
FASTRS, yeah, I know what you mean. My car doesn't face a wall where I go, it faces a street. I always expect the thing to fly into traffic- glad I'm not behind the wheel!
Good idea about arguing "single vs dual" exhaust. Have you seen the dual exhaust test? You hold the probe inside one pipe for a certain amount of time- the sniffer reads that pipe. Then the sniffer beeps, and you move the probe to the other pipe.Before NJ's new "dyno test", I failed the emissions once with "dual exhaust". My mech changed it to single, put the probe in the pipe on the driver's side, and the car passed with low #'s. I think the exhaust gas was "backing up" inside the passenger side pipe, and giving a false reading. Because of the crossflow muffler, more exhaust exits from the driver's side pipe.. I'm sure you guys have seen this on a cold day.
07-15-2002, 10:19 PM
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it's funny. being in NJ, this is the first time i've thought about emissions. 
i found more info in: http://www.smogsite.com/5gastheory.html
i got the high HC = too lean, too being the keyword. however, i would have to disagree with the 2 cheap filter advice. that would still be more restrictive. i would instead suggest cleaning the K&N filters with the K&N filter charger kit as needed. nobody should be running with dirty filters even if they are K&N.
i found more info in: http://www.smogsite.com/5gastheory.htmli got the high HC = too lean, too being the keyword. however, i would have to disagree with the 2 cheap filter advice. that would still be more restrictive. i would instead suggest cleaning the K&N filters with the K&N filter charger kit as needed. nobody should be running with dirty filters even if they are K&N.
07-22-2002, 12:59 PM
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Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
I guess it's one of those things we could argue about forever, then. I'd still rather throw two cheap air filters in (or one cheap air filter for a Firebird) and pass. A company can't make too restrictive of an air filter, otherwise, everybody would have problems. The filters must at least be up to some kind of spec for air flow!
And as for "too lean": If you fail emissions, with high HC, if I say the car is "running lean", then it's running lean enough to fail the sniff. Our car's don't run at the perfect stoichiometric ratio of 14.7:1, so there's some wiggle-room in the emissions test... there just isn't much. That's why I say "running lean" instead of "running too lean". I suppose I could say "running lean enough to fail the sniff test", but that takes too long. And I'm nitpicking because I don't want to work. Sorry!
Oh and thanks for that webpage link!
And as for "too lean": If you fail emissions, with high HC, if I say the car is "running lean", then it's running lean enough to fail the sniff. Our car's don't run at the perfect stoichiometric ratio of 14.7:1, so there's some wiggle-room in the emissions test... there just isn't much. That's why I say "running lean" instead of "running too lean". I suppose I could say "running lean enough to fail the sniff test", but that takes too long. And I'm nitpicking because I don't want to work. Sorry!
Oh and thanks for that webpage link!
07-22-2002, 08:31 PM
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Car: 1991 CAMARO 1968 FIREBIRD
Engine: CAMARO 3.1L FIREBIRD 455
Transmission: CAMARO 700R4 FIREBIRD TH-400
Do you know a Paper filter will flow more air then a K&N the first few hundred miles then it gets clogged i found that interesting.
08-07-2002, 03:47 PM
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this was with quarter tank of 87 octane fuel, the HC's are high due to unburnt fuel.
i have a small exhaust leak before the cc, got to get it welded eventualy,
i have new plugs, new sistributor, new cc, new o2 sensor
i dont even think he checked to see if i had a cc...
i have a small exhaust leak before the cc, got to get it welded eventualy,
i have new plugs, new sistributor, new cc, new o2 sensor
i dont even think he checked to see if i had a cc...
08-07-2002, 03:59 PM
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Car: 1983, 1986
Engine: 2.8 2bbl, 2.8 MPFI
Transmission: 200C 3 speed, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.08, 3.42
Originally posted by RPS
i have a small exhaust leak before the cc, got to get it welded eventualy
i have a small exhaust leak before the cc, got to get it welded eventualy
08-07-2002, 08:32 PM
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ok, it was supposed to be fixed last thursday, but the spot welder wasnt working right...
i just got done putting new plug wires on it, should i use my jet stage II chip with my next emission's run?
the next one if free btw.
i just got done putting new plug wires on it, should i use my jet stage II chip with my next emission's run?
the next one if free btw.
08-07-2002, 08:55 PM
#27
Well, if you ran the car through without the chip last time, then leave it out. MAKE SURE your timing is set to where it is suppose to be ( 10* BTDC without the chip!) And make sure you disconnect the timing advance plug, on the P/S next to the A/C receiver/dryer! Check the timing BEFORE and AFTER you unplug the connector. Make sure there is a differance in RPM and the timing when you do unplug the connector. It's a one wire connector. Black colored. If timing is off when the connector is out, set to specs. I believe it's 10 degrees, like I said above.
Then once set, plug the connector back in, then recheck the timing, it should ADVANCE. Your done! I'll need a good timing light to do this job. With a dist. wrench to get to the back of the dist.
It's a pain to do without the right wrench!!!!!Good luck, if you do this job, if needed. It's not really that hard to do, if you have experiance in this.
If timing is ABOVE 10* when connector unplugged, that can cause a rich mixure in the engine! Which can cause the HC to go higher than normal! But also if too lean, can also set HC to go high, but unlikely unless the CO is up as well, because lean means
high temp., which leads to high HC AND CO numbers!!!! But just high HC alone is usually a sign of unburned fuel/rich mixture.
Hope this helps!!!!
Then once set, plug the connector back in, then recheck the timing, it should ADVANCE. Your done! I'll need a good timing light to do this job. With a dist. wrench to get to the back of the dist.
It's a pain to do without the right wrench!!!!!Good luck, if you do this job, if needed. It's not really that hard to do, if you have experiance in this.
If timing is ABOVE 10* when connector unplugged, that can cause a rich mixure in the engine! Which can cause the HC to go higher than normal! But also if too lean, can also set HC to go high, but unlikely unless the CO is up as well, because lean means
high temp., which leads to high HC AND CO numbers!!!! But just high HC alone is usually a sign of unburned fuel/rich mixture.
Hope this helps!!!!
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