Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

So if I am having a shop install this, do yall think they will be able to figure out how to get everything to fit, or is there something specific I should let them know before hand?

marcus25

A good drivetrain shop will know the ends and outs of a rear end. Though, the only downside is, I'm not sure many shops have experience working with the 9 bolts since GM put more of the weak 7.5s under the cars than the 9 bolts. The only thing I can think of would be the torque spec on the pinion bearing. Ask them to perform a reverse torque setting on the pinion to see what the preload is, vital to prevent noise chatter and unwanted friction; though that is they have to take it out. Other than that, everything else the shop should know how to do. Good luck with the procedure, hoping everything works out.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Well I dropped my rear off at the shop Friday morning, guy was a bit confused about the reverse torque setting, but he has been rebuilding rears since the 90's so I don't think I will have any issues.

Never even heard of putting a carrier like this in a 9 bolt.

Hard to find good techs these days!

Eredin

For what it's worth, I'm still beating on my setup in autocross. I don't have a ton of events on it (thanks Rona), but it's survived well. My car is making 450whp/460wtq and sits on 275 RE71s at the moment, which are 200 tread wear. I'm going to rock the 9 until it dies, but it's served me well overall in the six+ years I've had the car on the road.

Rumblealex

Hey just to get back on topic, I'm looking at their website right now but the 3 options offered in the torque lock page doesn't have matching descriptions of what was previously mentioned on this thread. Is it still more simple to send a request via email? Because I'm having a hard time believing the price jumped up by that much within the last month.


I'm thinking of biting the bullet and buying one of those, cuz my 9 bolt finally grenaded. The posi cones were so wore out they ground into the carrier and the planetary gears became loose and destroyed themselves.
So I bought another 9 bolts and got burnt by the seller. I opened the carrier and the cones are shot as well, they're touching the ends of the carrier and the mating surfaces are beyond saving.. I'm done buying 2nd hand crap.

I made a nice album showing the carnage https://imgur.com/a/nUHBY5H
Also what it sounded like before dropping everything :

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Id send the email and let them know what you're doing. I couldn't find it on the website when I bought it either.

Rumblealex

Thanks for the quick reply, I'll give myself the week to think over it. while hating my life over this issue this afternoon, I spotted a '98 4th gen in a junkyard with the rear end still on it, but it's a v6 manual.. I have no idea what gear those came with, and if they're desirable. I'd guess not, but I'm looking around and cannot find much info about the v6 rear ends.

would certainly be cheaper than importing a 9 bolt carrier, but..

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

I certainly liked the idea of saving my 9 bolt, especially since they are kinda rare, but I certainly did have trouble sourcing some parts at times. Now that I am fully rebuilding it, I'm hopeful it will last me a long time!

Rumblealex

Yeah I feel you, but at the same time I'm just getting frustrated because I have two 9 bolts sitting in the garage, and none under the car. I had hoped to get the car in driving condition this week but unless I cobble together a rear end with the best parts of both units and endure it this way I won't get to drive the car much this season. It's already been in storage since October I'm damn tired of waiting
Both halves of both posi cones seats are so scratched up I don't know how much it could endure still..

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

I get that as well, I haven't been able to properly enjoy my car since 2017. Really shot myself in the foot. Finally looking to have it by end of spring, if im lucky, End of April...

marcus25

Been doing little work to mine for the last 3 yrs and I just ordered the diff from Dave a few days ago. I should get it by the 15th of April, though I'm not putting it in until I break the old diff; shouldn't be that long once I put the motor in and get out of the break-in stage to let some ponies loose.

ForestCat

Hi, a question for you guys who have done the upgrade, changed the pinion bearings AND kept your original ring/pinion: Did you have to make any changes to the pinion depth/spacer/etc? I have a 9-bolt that no one has ever been into before ('86 T/A, I'm the original owner) one cone is worn, just started to bottom out. Now I see the bearings have some pitting, so replacing them. I was toying w/ the idea of dressing down the worn cone in my lathe, shimming it, and just putting it back together (to avoid any pinion depth dickery, but that was before I saw the bearing condition. The other thing that doesn't seem clear from the web resources I've found: Is the pinion shim under the bearing on the pinion (like the rest of the world) or under the inner race? If the latter, seems it might not be total hell to set up, as long as I save the crush (or solid spacer final torque) until EVERYTHING is dialed in? If I have to set the pinion height AND the backlash, might as well bite the bullet on the Torsen and hopefully be done w/ it. I'm a total diff noob, so go easy on me...
Thanks.

gheatly

iTrader: (2)

I seriously thought about rebuilding my 9-bolt myself, but after spending $644 on a Torqueline differential, I went ahead and paid a shop to do it. I sourced all of the parts and the shop charged $350 in labor. Well worth it in my opinion.

soupman

iTrader: (1)

I rebuilt mine this winter. The pinion shim is under the bearing race. I was lucky, took a chance a reused the shim since I was reusing the gears and installed the new torsen unit. Backlash and preload came out acceptable.

GCrites80s

Do you have it by now? How much was it? That change on the website has us worried.

ForestCat

Thanks, that's great news. Was there any particular trick to getting that shim out undamaged?

soupman

iTrader: (1)

Not really hard but when you use a drift to remove the race,the drift will be pushing on the shim since it’s sandwiches between the race. Use a brass punch so you don’t mark it.

ForestCat

Thanks, man. Just ordered the LSD from Mace on ebay. I emailed 'Dave' at supafspares first, but he didn't reply.

vorteciroc

I rarely do any of these anymore...
But I had a 9-Bolt (Camaro) come through the shop.

I have been hoarding new and used but good parts for 9-Bolt units and Dana-44 (F-Body version) units.
Because these parts are scarce... I unfortunately have to ask a "Premium" for a customer to receive these parts.

Anyway, Bellow will be some images of the work completed for this 9-Bolt.
Work completed:

-Measured all critical clearances.
-Fully weld axle-tubes to differential housing.
-Complete disassembly, cleaning, and re-application of "Glyptal".
-Machined both carrier halves for cone clearance.
-Machined both new 31-Spline cones for carrier half clearance.
-Set additional pre-load for cones.
-Set and tested gear-pattern.
-Sanded and polished inside of new T/A Performance girdle-cover.
-Set pre-load for new T/A Performance girdle-cover.
-Set all critical clearances.
-Torqued all fasteners to specification.

-All new Timken bearings.
-All new SKF brand seals (original Borg-Warner design, not substitutions).
-New Felpro cover gasket.
-New solid pinion spacer (made in house on the lathe).
-New misc. shims (made in house on the lathe).
-New Moser 31-Spline axles.
-New Borg-Warner 31-Spline cones.
-Used, good Borg-Warner 31-Spline side-gears.
-Used, good Borg-Warner cross-shaft and spider-gear set.
-New ARP main-cap studs.
-New ARP cover studs.
-New T/A Performance girdle-cover.

This customer wished to re-use the current ring and pinion set.
There were less than 1,000 miles on the gear set, however:

-The ring-gear wear pattern showed mostly heel contact (meaning that there was a bit too much Backlash).
-Interestingly though... upon disassembly measurements, showed the backlash within the specification range.
-So during the assembly process; I rechecked the gear-pattern with paint (it looked near perfect).
-I reduced the backlash by 0.0015" (the gear-pattern now looked perfect).

I always forget to include everything/ all work completed...
If you guys think of anything that I forgot to post; just let me know please.

Here are some of the images from this customer's 9-Bolt...
and a mix of parts from a previous customer's 9-Bolt:

vorteciroc

vorteciroc

vorteciroc

vorteciroc

vorteciroc

With the part and set-up combination that I have posted further up in the Thread...
I have some 3rd-GENs running around the streets and tracks with up to 650 - 750 Lbs of torque on 10.5" slicks/ drag-radials.
And even more power on street tires LOL! (No traction mean parts do not usually break).


Pretty dam good for a Differential from the 1980s (part of the era of "No Horsepower"), some parts from the early 2000s GTO differential...
and a few aftermarket parts... all with the right set-up.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

You flattened those caps enough for the girdle? I ground that break off so it was smooth with the rest of the cap since the foot of the girdle support falls in the middle of the cap

vorteciroc

Yes.
The way that this particular cover-girdle fit the main-caps...
This is all that was needed.
This particular set of parts for this differential, ended-up positioning the feet of the cover-girdle further inboard than I normally see.

Ever measurement in this differential is down to the 0.0001" (one ten-thousandths of an inch).
It is rare that I find the cover-girdle feet mating to the main-caps in the position that is seen in the images.
Some layout like shown, some are more centered, and some are actually centered.
I use blue "Dykem" (machinist layout fluid) to view an imprint/ location in reference to multiple locations of the differential.





During the cover-girdle fitment process for the feet to main-cap positioning...
I reference to the center of the carrier location,
to the center of each bearing/ main-cap individually,
and then the center of the components combined.

Then the cover-girdle feet to main-cap preload can be established.
The use of ARP studs for the main-caps and ARP studs for the cover-girdle...
to the necessary fastener torque specification is crucial in ensuring accurate preload of the main-caps.
I use ARP PTFE thread lubricant/ sealant to set the cover-girdle torque specification in a specific pattern for ideal load distribution.

marcus25

Yes I do have the diff, it came in on the 14th and the order was sent out on the 8 or 9th, so about a week. I'm in Michigan so it may be a day more or less depending on where you are. The shipping was done through DHL, got a txt when shipment went out and another during the trip about how to deliver and the last was confirmation of delivery.

GCrites80s

I was talking to a transmission/drivetrain friend of mine yesterday and he said he's having real trouble finding any junkyard 8.8s. I suspect that since LKQ is so big and there are so many 8.8 builders now that all of LKQs 8.8s are going to builders who have a standing order for them. This puts pressure on 8.8s from independent junkyards and/or the builders have standing orders with the independent yards near them too. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened to a smaller degree with Ford 9s in the past but of course you didn't have LKQ around then. Does anybody know any more about this? It's more of a hunch than anything I can prove. This would make us more dependent on keeping our 9-bolts going since the days of $200 Explorer rear ends may be coming to a close except maybe at an out-of-the-way pick and pull.

vorteciroc

I am not surprised...

I remember when the Ford 8.8" Diffs starting gaining popularity as a swap for very little money.
I mean, why not grab a Ford 8.8" Diff?
It is pretty much a GM 12-Bolt Clone for a few hundred dollars with great aftermarket support.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I've always liked the 8.8. Did a metric sheet ton of gear/diff upgrades to fox bodies and other mustangs through the years.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, finally getting around to finishing my current build.

I've filled the rear end using the TA cover up to the point it starts oozing out from what I believe is the "check" screw.

When I put the screw back in, should I add any more??
I added about 2qts
Thanks!

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Overfilling can lead to having too much air in the oil, plus it's going to migrate to the tubes if you put too much

marcus25

Once the oil reaches the fill point on the screw hole, fill no more that is the capacity limit.

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

So the TA cover has a drain, a check, and a fill.

Im supposed to fill up to the check right?

Or do I go to the fill hole?

sorry for the confusion!

scooter

iTrader: (11)

The middle plug is the level check, you fill from the top until you get oil out of the hole, then no more

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Perfect, thanks!

One more weird question. Is it okay to start the car without the driveshaft being connected?

I'm gonna have to take the rear off again and reconfigure it cause it's not getting into it's proper position the way I tried to bolt it in last.

However, I do want to get the car started, make sure I don't have any exhaust leaks and all that.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

You shouldn't ran a transmission without fluid in it, even without it in gear, so as long as your output yoke is in the trans, to hold the fluid in, the DS doesn't have to be in the rear to start the car

Annihilate

iTrader: (1)

Cool beans, yeah she still has fluid, I put a plug in it after I took the DS out.

Thanks for all the help brother.

marcus25

3 holes like you said, top is fill, middle is level, bottom is drain, fill until oil comes out the middle hole. That is proper amount of oil for the differential. With standard cover, fill hole is the level amount. Rule of thumb for those are to fill and test level with tip of of your pinky until oil is has submerged about 1/3 of the tip of your pinky. Hope this helps.

GCrites80s

Anybody ordered one of Supa F spares diffs in the past 6 months? Planning on ordering one in the next week or two if everything is still cool.

soupman

iTrader: (1)

I just ordered from eBay was much cheaper. Exact same torsen diff. I installed mine no issues, works great.

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

Which vendor if you don’t mind me asking?

soupman

iTrader: (1)

MACE M78 TORQUE-LOCK LSD DIFF FOR HOLDEN VK VL VN VP. This was by Mace Engineering Group. I bought mine last year.

ForestCat

I've gotten back to this after a year of health bullsh!t.
Quick review:
Virgin 9-bolt(no one inside of it since it left Australia)
160k easy daily driver miles behind '86(wimpy cam) 305 auto
cones worn out, some pitting on bearings, gears look fine.
Will be going behind a nearly stock L98/T5, ie VERY mild, lol street setup, stock tires, etc.

I have the Mace unit, getting ready to assemble.
I've sourced identical mfg/# bearings/races to what came out of it. Only difference is the country of origin, Timken USA vs Australia, SKF might be same country.
Per my prev post, trying desperately to avoid pounding that inner race in/out any more than absolutely necessary.

I don't know how scientific this is (see picture), but the results are VERY repeatable.
The new bearing sits .004 "higher"(thicker, etc) than the old bearing.
The other bearings are EXACTLY the same "height", new vs old.
Do you guys think this could simply be due to bearing wear? After all, if I understand the design, under acceleration, this bearing is being forced into the race with everything the rest of the drivetrain is worth, correct? With that kind of thrust-loading, I'd think that bearing would be a wear candidate?
I couldn't find anything on the internet re: pinion height vs bearing wear.

The question in my mind is whether this .004 is due to mfg tolerance, or wear?
Will an inner pinion bearing break-in/loosen up?
I just don't know whether to try to compensate with .004 less shim, split the difference with .002, etc?

Thanks for reading.

george88gta

I emailed and no response, are these available anymore? Looking for one myself !

GCrites80s

I see the MACE M78 TORQUE-LOCK LSD DIFF FOR HOLDEN VK VL VN VP no longer turns up. Does this cross-reference properly?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/36135865671...3ABFBMivLb8OVg


I got my MACE M78 TORQUE-LOCK LSD DIFF FOR HOLDEN VK VL VN VP from Mace Engineering last fall (it took about two weeks to get here) but my buddy wasn't able to install it because he ended up having to rebuild his engine. Then I didn't want to tie up the car during autocross season. So I still haven't gotten it in. Looking for a drivetrain shop in Columbus Ohio.

PontiacT/A

I'm looking at the little window on the carrier in this picture. What is this supposed to look like on an unused brand new carrier vs a used carrier? Thanks.

vorteciroc

New/ Unused = (GOOD) should have an Open or only Partially Obstructed Window.
(Similar to My image in the previous post above).

A Mostly Obstructed/ Fully Obstructed Window would indicate that the differential Friction-Elements (Clutch-Cones) are near or at "End of Life".

george88gta

just completed my order today!!!

PontiacT/A

Thank you for your timely reply, I greatly appreciate it. Is this true for all the Borg Warner posi carriers? Also does the carrier have to be installed in the differential case with the axles installed in order to get an accurate reading through the windows?

I'm asking because I have a replacement Borg Warner carrier that I'm trying to figure out if the cones are good. The replacement carrier is specific for the 3.27 & 3.45 ring & pinion gear set.