NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Well, along with a 9" rear, I just finished my T56 swap. Most things went smoothly, but am having a couple small issues. Here is my setup


1993 T56
-stock thirdgen T5 pedals
-stock new GM Master(t5)
-Custom made SS line
-Stock GM slave(t5)



Well, got it buttoned up and when turning the car over(it turned over very sluggish), I noticed that the clutch or something was dragging. Since we tested the clutch before(just by hand). I knew it was releasing and grabbing I started to look into things. I finally realized the slave was pushing TOO far and it was rubbing the clutch for against the pressure plate. I space the slave out with a few washers and everything seemed good to go.

Upon my first test drive it worked FLAWLESSLY. The only issue was a high clutch pedal. I pulled back in the garage and added just 2 more washers and before I even cranked the car (when I first pushed the clutch in). It overexerted the slave and busted it! SOOOOO, that means that I can't space it out that far. I have a new slave I am picking up today and will shim it like it was when it was working. The clutch is engaging fully and not slipping, it's just very high in the pedal. I have a 12 point cage and really don't want to make an adjustable master because of the trouble of getting under the dash.

On that subject, dumb down to me how making it adjustable actually makes it different. The only thing I can see it doing is making the pedal stay lower or higher(depending on whether you shorten or lengthen it.) The actual engagement would be at the same point though, correct? Meaning, you push it in 1" and it engages, it will still do the same. It will just be at a lower starting point because you lowered the pedal.

Any other ways anyone can see on how to get my pedal lower?

I can live with it like this, but would rather have it lower if possible!


Thanks


Chris

ps, search my name. I have pictures of it installed in that thread

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Real quick response here.
I've done several retro-swaps of the T5 and T56. Between that and even more reading here, I'd say:
Deviating from stock parts correctly installed (don't take that personally) leads to potential issues.
Your longer-throw pedals are different than the fourth-gen ones. If everything else is stock fourth gen, some people have used a cavalier slave. (search it)
Off the top of my head, the 3/4" third gen master may differ from the 93-97 fourth gen master; I think it may be 13/16" but I don't have this in my garage to confirm.

So you have potential "non-stock" spec parts (speaking of a stock 199x LT1 T56 as "stock.) Those may help or hurt the situation.

Secondly, the movement needed by the Valeo 93-97 use pull clutch is picky. Too much and you grind the pressue plate with the fork. Too little, you don't have clutch release. Too thick a disc, you don't have clutch release. It's a good system when it works, but frustration can stem from the narrow window of correct operation.

If your clutch is releasing when your pedal is 3/4 pushed in, you need to reduce further effective clutch release. A pedal stop, an adjustable master cylinder, a larger i.d. slave cylinder would all do this.

You outlined your parts used well in this thread and I'll let others step in from here.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Thanks for the reply. My system releases at the very TOP of the pedal. I have my new slave here and am going to put it on tonight. With mysetup what would bring the clutch down? I need something with LESS throw than the t5 one I have, correct?


This gets confusing!

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

If the different hydros don't do it you can modify the pivot on the 3rd gen clutch pedal. You can move the whole arm up by cutting it and re-welding. Or you can do the pivot mod like I did which allows you to adjust the clutch throw much like an adjustable master.

Link to mod I did with mine.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...pedal-mod.html

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Lol someone just bumped my thread detailing my quickly solved ordeal with this.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ew-clutch.html

I just used an 87? (probably in the thread) Cavalier slave cylinder. Much larger bore than the T56 slave, and larger than the T5 slave, so you get less fork travel for the same amount of pedal movement. Solved it. It significantly lightened up the clutch, though, but Im used to it. It was an easy swap, got the slave cyl for around $30 on rockauto and put a drill to it for around 2 seconds to make sure the T56 stock hardline male end would fit into it properly and seal. Was a direct bolt-in swap deal. Would have been extremely easy if I had drilled it before hand and hadnt drained the clutch hydraulics dry in the process. I dont know if you'll need to do that or not, but it was a pretty minor alteration.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

OK, thas the answer I was looking. I was confused on the difference of the Cavalier slave in regards to what it actually does differently. Less clutch travel is what I need as the t5 setup REALLY pushes a long ways!

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I would suggest the mod to the master cylinder rod to make it adjustable if it's out of the car. I just did the cavalier slave because I have nightmares about being under the dash putting the pedals in and getting it all setup and bolted in place. The cavalier slave is just a lot easier to do when everything is already installed. But if you dont mind taking the master cylinder out of the car, threading it and making an adjustable turnbuckle/jam nut setup is a really good idea.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

I'd do that, but I have a 12 point cage....... YUCK. That's why I'd rther work under the car than under the dash!

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I hear you on that!

If I remember right the stock T56 slave cylinder bore is .75 inches or so... or at least some weird fraction around there. 11/16s? 13/16s? The T5 slave 1 inch, and the Cavalier slave is 1.25 inches. I hope just the cavalier slave is enough. It was for me, but Im not running a T5 master cylinder. I had read that the T5 and T56 master are supposed to be the same bore... but then I read somewhere else that they're not. So I dont know for sure. But as cheap as it is, it's worth a shot, and if it doesnt work you can either make your master cylinder rod adjustable, adjust where the peg is on the pdal through fabrication, or go to a Tick or similar adjustable master cylinder. The last option is VERY pricy though. But either way there are many solutions available.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

OK< it is surely releasing all the way as the slave is all the way in and the clutch fork has very little pressure on it, so I'm not afraid of the clutch slipping. It's just that it is at the very very top.


I did modify the neutral safety switch and my 2-step to raise it and the pedal stop to make sure I don't blow another slave.


If I wanting to play with it some more I will look at the Cavaliar slave. 88 4-cylinder, correct? I don't think manuals came in the v6...

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Got the clutch, transmission, and rear all in. Had to custom make some brackets/mounts, etc but not too bad of a swap over all. When everything was together I noticed the car would not turn over easily. After some looking into things I found out the slave was pushing the clutch fork TOO far and causing it to rub the pressure plate. Ended up being able to space the slave back and clear the pp while still releasing all the way. Went a LITTLE too far and ended up overexerting my slave and it busting out of the end.



ONE Advance Auto slave later we are in business(with it not spaced quite so far back and moving the clutch safety switch and 2-step up, so that I don't have to push it all the way down and risk ruining the slave again, I'm driving.) Clutch did release at the top, but worked great and released smoothly. The rear was quiet as well. Put about 100 miles or so on it and all seemed well.... I decided to throw a little power on it and see how it would work as we were trying to make Draggin' Rights. It chirped the tires a little from 50ish and when I pushed in the clutch to shift early into 3rd, the pedal felt very weird. Slowed down and noticed it wasn't going into any gear well. Lost the clutch.....


Limped it home and checked the slave and everything was fine. After looking into it, I noticed the clutch would release, but at the VERY bottom and was chattering. Reluctantly, I pulled the tranny and found the right side of the pressure plate was bent(like the clutch fork was pulling it too far). Pulled off the whole assembly and luckily it fit in a $15.95 If it fits, It ships box! Spec should be getting it tomorrow. They are going to repair the PP and check everything else and send it out to me. I have already picked up a 1988 Cavalier slave cylinder(which throws about 1" less) and should be perfect for the T56 tranny, and thirdgen pedals...


On a bright note the 3.50 gear in the rear and 6-speed is a GREAT combo with the TPI. Can't wait to get it right!



Here's to hoping the Cavalier slave fixes it!

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

UPDATE:


THIRDGEN pedals and slave with a Cavilier(I used 1988 model year 4 cylinder) slave working well so far. I haven't gotten on it yet, but starting to release about 2" from the floor and has less than 1" of play at the top. So far, i couldn't be happier about it.


Hopefully I can put some miles on it and starting putting the power through it this week.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

How's it working out so far??? ....does the pedal feel TOO soft?

....and just so I'm clear, 4th gen pedals would also fix this, right?

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

feels great. After driving t some it feels just like my 95 Civic! Drove it 100 miles today!

Yes, 4th gen pedals and hydros work well together. I just did not want to climb under my dash(lot of cage) and lose my original pedals!