TH350 With TCI SHIFT KIT
10-31-2001, 05:37 PM
#1
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TH350 With TCI SHIFT KIT
Any good? I just put one in my TH350 with a TCI Street Fighter (3200-3800 Stall) behind a radical 355 block and moderate heads. This sunday i plan on actually driving it after 4 months. i noticed the torque arm wont bolt up, so im going to leave it off for a while, and the tranny mount didnt reach the cross member, so i made a bracket for that... also i didnt use locktite on the TC bolts, i just pulled em tight as i could, should i use locktite? and i didnt put any fluid anywhere, i heard this can tear the Tranny seal when first started up. sumone said put fluid in a bottle and spray it all over the place in the bellhousing.
ANy of this make sense? Main question is TCI SHIFT KIT = GOOD / BAD... ??? It came with the new plate which i installed, and some springs for the valve body i put in, also new governer springs i installed. Is that goina give me that firm chirp crazy tire spin shift? coool.
ANy of this make sense? Main question is TCI SHIFT KIT = GOOD / BAD... ??? It came with the new plate which i installed, and some springs for the valve body i put in, also new governer springs i installed. Is that goina give me that firm chirp crazy tire spin shift? coool.
10-31-2001, 05:38 PM
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i should also ask what Trans-Go comes with that TCI doesnt come with? Trans go is just so much mroe expensive....
10-31-2001, 05:39 PM
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One more thing, Tranny also has a nifty cooler (instead of radiator) and when it was rebuilt i had the dude put high performance clutches in too that should help it grap the gears riite...
11-01-2001, 03:52 AM
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First, a little history. The name Shift Kit is a registered trademark of TransGo. TransGo was started in 1959 with the intention of finding the causes of complaints and failures in a particular transmission and converting that info into a kit that could be installed in the tranny.
You would be surprised that a true Shift Kit does NOT make hard shifts and is intended for passenger car and light truck use. They spend sometimes years researching a tranny to see what it does right and what it's weak points are before they can finally offer a Shift Kit for it. They also make a Reprogramming Kit which uses the Shift Kit for a particular tranny and adds HP/HD capability, and yes firmer shifts too. They generally speaking will give you the ability to select any lower gear or hold a gear to any speed with the shifter.
B&M and the like, on the other hand always have the same goal in mind: Hard Shifts. To accomplish this they have a set formula that gets applied to every transmission. A) Block or limit the smoothing devices (accumulators). B) Jack up the line pressure. C) Hog out the feed holes. The result is always hard shifts but often that has nothing to do with WHY a tranny fails and is more a RESULT of another problem causing soft, slipping shifts.
As far as spraying oil inside the bellhousing- don't bother. You will have a mess and it will look like you have a leak. I put a product called TransJel (essentially it is Vaseline) on the seals and the bushing so on initial start up there is some lube but I know allot of people who just bang the seals in and go and they usually get away with it. I would NOT recommend driving it W/O the Torque Arm. I think you are looking for trouble if you do. As far as the cost of the TransGo products- you get what you pay for.
You would be surprised that a true Shift Kit does NOT make hard shifts and is intended for passenger car and light truck use. They spend sometimes years researching a tranny to see what it does right and what it's weak points are before they can finally offer a Shift Kit for it. They also make a Reprogramming Kit which uses the Shift Kit for a particular tranny and adds HP/HD capability, and yes firmer shifts too. They generally speaking will give you the ability to select any lower gear or hold a gear to any speed with the shifter.
B&M and the like, on the other hand always have the same goal in mind: Hard Shifts. To accomplish this they have a set formula that gets applied to every transmission. A) Block or limit the smoothing devices (accumulators). B) Jack up the line pressure. C) Hog out the feed holes. The result is always hard shifts but often that has nothing to do with WHY a tranny fails and is more a RESULT of another problem causing soft, slipping shifts.
As far as spraying oil inside the bellhousing- don't bother. You will have a mess and it will look like you have a leak. I put a product called TransJel (essentially it is Vaseline) on the seals and the bushing so on initial start up there is some lube but I know allot of people who just bang the seals in and go and they usually get away with it. I would NOT recommend driving it W/O the Torque Arm. I think you are looking for trouble if you do. As far as the cost of the TransGo products- you get what you pay for.
11-02-2001, 08:05 PM
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Ok sorry, Valve Body Improver Kit is what TCI calls it. The way i figure it, i now have a TCI Stall converter which everyone says is good, and the TCI "improver Kit" Was like $31.00 Instead of $125.00 and probably does the same thing, just without the nifty Tape casset on how to install it. If I put a "shift Kit" in my 700R4 its prolly goina be a Trans-go, but for my TH350, I choose TCI because my father put a B&M (Almost same thing, but B&M didnt come with springs back in 1983, just the seperator plate) and his Stock tranny with a B&M "Shift Kit" still shifts hard, holds gears, and gets along well with his 500 Horsepower Mustang. TCI seems to be one step above B&M as far as i can tell. 19 Years later that tranny still kicks hard. Whats so bad with a hard shift anyways? it says on the box "That Chirp Style Shift" What is it that Separates TRANS-GO from TCI and B&M ????
Name a part Trans-go shiftkits come with that TCI doesnt!!! Thats all i want to know...
Name a part Trans-go shiftkits come with that TCI doesnt!!! Thats all i want to know...
11-02-2001, 08:09 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by transfixleo:
The result is always hard shifts but often that has nothing to do with WHY a tranny fails and is more a RESULT of another problem causing soft, slipping shifts.
WHAT? do you mean Soft stock shifts cause bad things to happen? or Hard shifts?
As far as spraying oil inside the bellhousing- don't bother. You will have a mess and it will look like you have a leak.
Too late, i put some in a spray bottle and sprayed it all up in there and started it. Seal is fine, but thanx anyways.
I would NOT recommend driving it W/O the Torque Arm. I think you are looking for trouble if you do.
Why? Whats the stupid thing for, and what will break if i dont use it? I have no way of hooking it up. the tranny has nothing to hook or bolt it to....
The result is always hard shifts but often that has nothing to do with WHY a tranny fails and is more a RESULT of another problem causing soft, slipping shifts.
WHAT? do you mean Soft stock shifts cause bad things to happen? or Hard shifts?
As far as spraying oil inside the bellhousing- don't bother. You will have a mess and it will look like you have a leak.
Too late, i put some in a spray bottle and sprayed it all up in there and started it. Seal is fine, but thanx anyways.
I would NOT recommend driving it W/O the Torque Arm. I think you are looking for trouble if you do.
Why? Whats the stupid thing for, and what will break if i dont use it? I have no way of hooking it up. the tranny has nothing to hook or bolt it to....
11-02-2001, 09:37 PM
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Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
The torque arm is what keeps the rear end from wrapping up when you drive. Leaving the torque arm disconnected is a Bad Thing.
B&M makes a bracket to mount the torque arm to the TH350, their P/N is 30299 and it costs about $80 from Summit.
B&M makes a bracket to mount the torque arm to the TH350, their P/N is 30299 and it costs about $80 from Summit.
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11-02-2001, 10:15 PM
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"Name a part Trans-go shiftkits come with that TCI doesnt!!! Thats all i want to know..."
Did you read what I wrote above or did I waste my time? OK, for example, in a 350 they address the crossleaks that lead to direct clutch failure because they partially apply in 1st and 2nd when hot. Now fixing this does not involve making it shift harder, it just FIXES why it happens. Or I could talk about the improved shift timing and corrected pressure rise but again that isn't about shifting hard so I am probably wasting my time right?
Did you read what I wrote above or did I waste my time? OK, for example, in a 350 they address the crossleaks that lead to direct clutch failure because they partially apply in 1st and 2nd when hot. Now fixing this does not involve making it shift harder, it just FIXES why it happens. Or I could talk about the improved shift timing and corrected pressure rise but again that isn't about shifting hard so I am probably wasting my time right?
11-02-2001, 10:21 PM
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"WHAT? do you mean Soft stock shifts cause bad things to happen? or Hard shifts?"
Too soft (long) of a shift generates allot of heat, wear and tear on the tranny. Too hard (short) of a shift can lead to broken parts or can even push an engine under it's power band if it is too narrow. You want an even apply of power sort of like a smooth shift does, just allot quicker. This way energy is used to move the car instead of being lost twisting and distorting parts, if that makes any sense.
Too soft (long) of a shift generates allot of heat, wear and tear on the tranny. Too hard (short) of a shift can lead to broken parts or can even push an engine under it's power band if it is too narrow. You want an even apply of power sort of like a smooth shift does, just allot quicker. This way energy is used to move the car instead of being lost twisting and distorting parts, if that makes any sense.
11-02-2001, 10:52 PM
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ok i think i get it. Trans-go makes the tranny try to last longer by fixing things even if you never notice they are fixed. TCI just makes it shift harder cause thats what people want. Either way, from what you tell me, having a crap TCI kit installed is better than having NOTHING installed... especially in this kind of car. Im sure the tranny will last a long time either way, at least with the kit its more fun.
11-03-2001, 06:24 AM
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"ok i think i get it. Trans-go makes the tranny try to last longer by fixing things even if you never notice they are fixed. TCI just makes it shift harder cause thats what people want"
Exactly! Now don't get me wrong, if you want hard shifts the TransGo DOES provide firm shifts that you have a say in, depending on how you set it up. It is just that the tranny should at light throttle shift quick but there is no need for it to snap your neck. As you give it gas and the power level goes up you need more and more firmness (there is more to it than that but that term makes sense to everyone) to handle it. In my studies with TransGo ( I am a Tech student of theirs) they explain that IF the tires spin on a 1-2 shift in a 700 it MUST be from POWER and not just a high school BANG shift (Their words), and it should be @3/4's of the way through the shift. This means that even when a shift is SHORT enough to bring on a tire chirp that the initial start of the shift should still not be breaking the tires loose but as the band applies gradually, or smoothly (albeit rapidly) the power transmitted exceeds the traction available. Think of it this way, you can take any standard shift POS with two cylinders not working and pop the clutch and get a tire chirp. So what does that prove? It is the same way with the 'anything for a hard shift'- kits, no different at all. I remember a LOOOONG time ago, I guy I worked with at a tranny shop had a V-6 Regal with a 350 tranny that he wanted to shift 'good', so we brought it in and dropped the VB out. Now I was heavy into the hard shift thing at that point and had figured out what makes the B&M type kits tick. I took a look at the flow charts and figured out what it would take to remove the smoothing devices (on this tranny, plugging two small holes is all it takes)and I reamed out the restrictions in the seperator plate and jacked up the pressure a bit. Well to make a long story a little longer, this thing shifted so brutal that he had to take those changes out- you would have loved it! The point is, that tranny did NOT have anything done to it that would have made it last longer, In fact, I suspect that it would have spit the Intermediate Roller Clutch out of it in no time, and the crossleak problems that it has would STILL be in there. Now TransGo does make kits for the 350 that will make for a good shift. Even the basic Shift Kit has a nice shift feel to it and the Reprogramming Kit ahs much firmer shift AND with there special seperator plate the Directs have @ triple the apply area over stock. It won't shift as hard as what I did to that guys tranny but it will outlive the car along with the better shift timing makeing the engine feel like new (that is a whole 'nother topic) and that is the ultimate goal. The most durable and efficiant means of power transfer.
[This message has been edited by transfixleo (edited November 03, 2001).]
Exactly! Now don't get me wrong, if you want hard shifts the TransGo DOES provide firm shifts that you have a say in, depending on how you set it up. It is just that the tranny should at light throttle shift quick but there is no need for it to snap your neck. As you give it gas and the power level goes up you need more and more firmness (there is more to it than that but that term makes sense to everyone) to handle it. In my studies with TransGo ( I am a Tech student of theirs) they explain that IF the tires spin on a 1-2 shift in a 700 it MUST be from POWER and not just a high school BANG shift (Their words), and it should be @3/4's of the way through the shift. This means that even when a shift is SHORT enough to bring on a tire chirp that the initial start of the shift should still not be breaking the tires loose but as the band applies gradually, or smoothly (albeit rapidly) the power transmitted exceeds the traction available. Think of it this way, you can take any standard shift POS with two cylinders not working and pop the clutch and get a tire chirp. So what does that prove? It is the same way with the 'anything for a hard shift'- kits, no different at all. I remember a LOOOONG time ago, I guy I worked with at a tranny shop had a V-6 Regal with a 350 tranny that he wanted to shift 'good', so we brought it in and dropped the VB out. Now I was heavy into the hard shift thing at that point and had figured out what makes the B&M type kits tick. I took a look at the flow charts and figured out what it would take to remove the smoothing devices (on this tranny, plugging two small holes is all it takes)and I reamed out the restrictions in the seperator plate and jacked up the pressure a bit. Well to make a long story a little longer, this thing shifted so brutal that he had to take those changes out- you would have loved it! The point is, that tranny did NOT have anything done to it that would have made it last longer, In fact, I suspect that it would have spit the Intermediate Roller Clutch out of it in no time, and the crossleak problems that it has would STILL be in there. Now TransGo does make kits for the 350 that will make for a good shift. Even the basic Shift Kit has a nice shift feel to it and the Reprogramming Kit ahs much firmer shift AND with there special seperator plate the Directs have @ triple the apply area over stock. It won't shift as hard as what I did to that guys tranny but it will outlive the car along with the better shift timing makeing the engine feel like new (that is a whole 'nother topic) and that is the ultimate goal. The most durable and efficiant means of power transfer.
[This message has been edited by transfixleo (edited November 03, 2001).]
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