freddog23

I have a 350 turbo tranny. would this tranny be eneogh for 350-400 hp or which trannys are more effective? Please list pros and cons for each.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

you sure its a TH350??? because if its a stock 3 speed than its not the TH350, but a TH200C

If it is a TH350 than it with a good shift kit or a perfromance rebuild should be good for it

Shagwell

A decent rebuilt 700r4 will handle that power just fine and not sacrifice gas mileage. Some very minor upgrades(depending on model year of core used) and good clutches would do just fine.

If you want to stick with a 350, then it would be fine with just a decent rebuild.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

yea if you want a good 700 will handle that, my 700 lays rubber going into 2ed and 3rd, got the all the good clutches, custom shift kit, kevlar band, etc etc

85gulstrandTA

all the trans mentioned above will handle that hp easy

350's will be less money and use the least power to operate and weighs the least, i have one behind a 630 hp drag car

400 will be the next less expencive to get/rebuilt and will handle about any thing the average guy can afford to put in front of it.

700's and 200's will cost more to get and lots more to rebiuld, over $1,000, and will not be as fast in the 1/4 mile, can be built to handle 5-600 hp, because of the overdrive they will get better mpg which also reduces wear on the motor. also the later models are better than the earlier models. also differentg way of building w/ or wo lock up converter.

I think the 30 spline converters will work on 350/700's and matbe 200', not certain what interchanges with the 400 or the 27 spline 700/200's so converter pricing could also come into play along with opions.

the other cost involved is the drive shaft so it may be better to "stay with the same flavor"

hope that helps

freddog23

so all 350 have 4 gears??

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

th350 is a 3 speed
th200c is a 3 speed
700r4 is a 4 speed

RedHawkLB9

700r4-FTW on a street car

freddog23

a th350 is a turbo tranny right. sorry lil new

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

any TH stands for Turbo Hydro, now what that means IDK

the 700R4 is really a TH700R4

like said if you get a 700 and have it built right it will no longer be that slush box that the 700 once was, and plus you get over drive

it takes some mods to get a TH350 in a 3rd, like a new trans crossmember and im not sure how you do a torque arm mount on the TH350, i never cared to put one in, i just had my 700 built bullet proof.....my 700 will lay rubber going into 2nd and 3rd

as for the TH200C the one i have messed with in a 82z was pretty good, it had a shift kit, but 90MPH was topped out, and thats with 3.23's so just imagine 3.73 or 4.11 in it

my main question is what are you looking to do so we can better help you??

ed o

might also be a th250- if there is a band adjustment on it but looks like a bolt on TH350 rear housing
the th200 is a one piece case.
the th350c has the electrical plug on the side

freddog23

yea its a th350 for sure. 3 speed. I was told i had to get an overdrive kit for it. would it be worth doing work to my tranny to get overdrive. i also want a shift kit. My engine is a carburated 350 so i wont be messing with computers. any reccomendations on what i should do? would i be able to put a 700r4 in a car with no computer. Thanks for the help.
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yea its has an electrical plug.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

all you need to put a TH700R4 in is a TV cable (looks like a kickdown cable) and if you got a 700 with a lock up conveter you nees a lock up controler all easy and not expensive, infact the 700 is the recomended trans for classic cars the want and non cc trans with OD

ls six

Everything above is correct but I would recomend a TH2004R.

Its a 4speed overdrive trans used through 89.

It has some shortcomings bit it can hold up to 1000HP with relatively simple mods unlike the 700 that can still be unreliable at half that HP.

The 2004R also has a better 1st gear relative to 2nd compared to the 700. In a V8 making lots of power the 700's 1st is too low for street type cars with limited traction and the RPM drop from 1st to 2nd is bad enough to drop ypu below your ideal RPM. I have heard of cars dropping 1/2 sec in the 1/4 mile just by swapping from a 700 to a 2004R.

The 200 will also shift to OD at full throttle unlike the 700.

Mechanicaly it's a lot stronger than the 700 with the advantage of overdrive.

The car you want to pull one from is usualy the later monte carlo SS up til 87 since it has desireable valvebody features and the universal bellhousing. The GrandNational/T-T/A is the cream of the crop for these cars but they use BOP bellhousings and so are not a direct swap.

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

For a th350 swap you will need a new crossmember. I think spohn makes one. I, personally like the 700r4. I had mine built to handle my 427 ci LS-1 and then, changed my mind and put it behind my 305 TPI in my IROC!! LOL, it's built to handle 700+ hp and I'm pretty sure the 305 wont hurt it!

ls six is right, though; The th2004r is an awesome trans and will cost about the same to build as the 700r4. If you can find one, I would reccommend that.
You could go to a transmission shop and ask if they have a good core. If you are lucky, you might score one for anywhere between 50- 100 bucks. This same "Trick" works with 700r4's as well, of course....
Good luck!

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

350 turbo is lighter, and smaller, youll need a new drive shaft and different crossmember. the 700r4 gets better gas milage. and its a 4 speed with OD. i like the 700r4 better, especially if you build it up a lil bit.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

you can get a 700 to **** into OD at WOT, mine does, it was part of the stuff on my rebuild.....all autos factory are crud boxes IMO, they all need some mods, i just chose to stick with the 700 and build it to heck and back

freddog23

can i use a 700 on a carburated engine with no computer??

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

you can use it all day and all night just aslong as the TV cable is hooked up (improperly and commenly called kickdown cable) if this aint hookend up it will fry it, all it is a cable that hooks to the throttle

ed o

the 2004r is the same overall length as the TH350
the 700r4 is longer
both can be used no computer-both require hooking up the t.v. cable
all three use the same yolk on the driveline
the 700r4 requires a shorter driveline
I prefer the 700r4/all shifts of the 2004r are accumulated (meaning cushioned) and feels sloppy IMO.

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

i have an extremely stupid novice question, is the TV cable already on the tranny? im in the process of puttin a carb in and im not sure exactly what the TV cable looks like, or how it even works.. sorry i just never learned about this yet

ed o

all 700r4's and 2004r's have a cable on them. it hooks up by the carb with the throttle. a new cable costs about $40-the brackets to hook them up range from about $35-infinity. the other end of the cable hooks to the trans. make sense? the cable pulls the tv stuff in the trans increasing and decreasing the pump pressure to match throttle position. The oil pressure and shift points are controlled by the t.v..-the governor also works together with the cable and can be modified if the t.v. cable doesn't give enough of a shift point change.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

if you pull one make sure you take the cable, but there is issues with it being to short or long, but not hard....i talked to a guy that had a 350 and th700r4 in a 30's hot rod, and he loves it

IROC315

iTrader: (9)

If I am not mistaken a 350 longtail doesn't need a new drive shaft. That's what I just picked up.

ls six

The TV cable is not the same as a kick down cable. If any one is commonly calling the TV cable a kickdown cable they dont know much about transmissions.

And the trans will not fry if the cable is left off unless the fail safe isnt functioning. Mine is disconnected right now because the original would slip and drop line pressure and its just too damn cold to install the new one on the ground. Since I made sure fail safe worked after I built it I can drive around just fine except for the fact that the line is super high and the trans shifts hard enough at part throttle to spin the tires. Obviously i dont drive it often like this for the drivelines sake but a burnt trans is all but impossible in fail safe.


That can be fixed several different ways in the course of a rebuild. It can be done for cheap or even free. Accumulators in a high perf trans are a good thing if that trans is to be street driven.

Keep in mind that the better ratio spread in a 200 will typicaly drop 1/2 a second off a fast street cars quarter ET.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

dont expect to drive it long like that, my friend tore his up that way, and mine tore up that way (mine broke), and they also tell you directly for trans people that an inproperly adjusted or disconnected TV will cause damage.....if you want to risk it go ahead be my guest, but i will suggest getting a super strong rebuild when it tears up, a strong 700 is fun im not tring to be a smart a. but really its not good to drive in disconnected

and IDK why idiots call it a kick down cable ( i know its a TV and i would hope you could see that when i said "inproperly and commenly called" but sometime you got to use the wrong word for people to put 2 and 2 together).....thats what they used to be called so i can understand why some call it that, same as older people call the fridge the ice box, because thats what they were way back in the day

ls six

Dont worry. The only driving I have done since I removed the old cable is to take it a few miles from my parents house to my appartment and to move it around the lot to keep it from getting towed.

I preffer the 200 mostly because of it's better ratio spread over the 700. The 700 is a fun trans and works great in low power applications or trucks but the super low 1st in a tuned 350 TPI car means you get very smoky launches and then less than desireable acceleration after the 1-2 shift.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

ok, like i said im 99.9% sure its not a good idea to drive it

i agree you launch like crazy with that 700, and yea after 1/2 its not as good, a better set of gears helps some.

you may ask about driving that 700 with no TV but i think you will get the same anwser, may be worth another post.......... good luck with it

freddog23

I just want opinions because im investing some money in my camaro. I have a 350 turbo, would it be worth trading for a 700r4? Just state your opinion

ed o

third gen? definately trade the th350 for the 700r4 and don't look back.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

yea you will love the overdrive, especialy when it comes time to fill it up or cruise

freddog23

anymore opinions?

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

unless you want to put a manual in it

its just nice to have that overdrive on the 700
and people seem to like that 2004R also

you will see more 700's that 2004R's also

Chevhead89

ditch the old 350 and get a 700r4. its well worth it. unless your all out racing.
but a nine inch tail t350 is the same length as a 700r4.

ls six

I say 2004R. It will take a little more work to instal but where the 700 can be "built" to handle 450-500 HP the 200 will handle that stock in most cases.

A 1000 HP capable street trans is easy on a similar budget compared to the 700.

The 200 has by far a better gear spread then the 700. The 700 was designed to go into trucks that need a low 1st and the weak cars of the early 80's.

If your 3rd gen is going to make any decent power (300-400) then the 700 will hurt your accel times.

The 200 also has a slightly better OD ratio making it slightly more efficient.

It lives behind 3800 pound turbo buicks making 800+ HP and running deep 9's on the street so it'll serve your needs very well. Not to mention it came in the fastest/quickest 3rd gen ever made

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

gahh makes me wanna get a 200

freddog23

so you think a 200 is the way to go?? is it cheaper to build than a 700

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

may be but it aint a direct bolt in from what i under stand, i dont think it has the tq arm mount thingy on it and it would maybe require a new trans mount of some kind, so factor that in to the rebuild

ed o

most 2004r's came in elcamino's, and cadillacs. they weren't really a performance trans initially and if they aren't from gn's or tbo buicks they were granny shifters. too sloppy for the enthusiast. all shift were accumulated for slop. must do all the upgrades to bring them to specs and that is at a price well above a properly built 700r4. gearing is o.k. yes but at the expense of having a granny shifting unit. if someone has another opinion on the 2004r shift quality speak up because it is what keeps me on the 700r4 bandwagon.

curacaoz28

HI, just a question is it pleasent to drive on the street with a turbo 350? or would it consume a lot of gas?

curacaoz28

I have a 305 tpi to so I need a hnew driveshaft to install a T350 or can i cut the old one (stock) and wld it at the good lenght?

ed o

th350's eat more gas. they only have a 1 to 1 third gear and no lockup.
the 700r4 has 1 to 1 in third also, but a .7 overdrive with a lockup.
if you get a long th350 no cutting will be necessary to swap between the 700r4.

ls six

The accumulator issue can be solved for free while installing a simple shift kit to address the shift timing.

The shift timing can be modified with a spring/weight kit or by modifying the Gov your self, also for free.

The turbo cars got the exact same hard parts as the malibu's and other "granny cars" so theres no stregnth disadvantage to using a common 200 over a turbo/SS unit. The performance units did come with a few desirable features like revised valve bodies governors and servos.
So assuming you start with a solid example with fresh clutches and band you can build a firm shifting 200 that'll take 500 +- HP for under $100 easy ( I do my own building)

For more stregnth and durability there are any number of options beyond the basics to increase the stregnth enough to handle 1000HP big blocks.

One thing to remember is the 200-4R's stock pan sucks. It's long and shallow and once your able to generate real G's when launching you can starve the pickup of fluid.


My budget trans build for my T/A is as follows: 200-4R core from a Monte SS $35. Basic Rebuild kit $74. Modified governor FREE!!. Modified accumulators FREE!!!. Drive shaft from a 200c equipped 3rd gen $10

Modified X member for tq arm Free. Tq converter stock. Modified trans pan Free.

For the money it's proabably better to invest in a 200-4R than in a set of headers.

BruceEmbry

Which transmission is better,
4l60e, its a direct drop in in place of an 700r4. The 4L60e requires an controller and has overdrive. With the 4L60e and an TCI controller, you can tune the shift points and every thing else. Now this conversion is not for weak tech people.

I was bless when I did the conversion on my 82 Firebird, I got the transmssion brand new from an GM dealer at 1/2 the retail price. If you do a search on my name, you will find the detail posting of the conversion. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Vader

The 4L60E is the same transmission as the TH700-R4, except the shifting is controlled by solenoids (electrically). The basic hardware is, for the most part, identical. Most of the "good" parts from the 4L60E can be refit to the TH700-R5, like the 13 vane pump, five pinion planetary set, improved sun gear and shell, etcetera. Obviously, the cases and valve bodies are different, but the "meat" of the trans is the same. To avoid the cost and labor of installing a trans controller, you can build a TH700-R4 to nearly the same specifications. Shift points will be controlled by line pressure, calibrations springs, and valve porting instead of electrically.

ls six

You might as well have swapped in a stronger 4l65-E but as Vader said the improved parts will easily swap to the 700/4L60.

ed o

is six/ love the header joke
the stator of the 2004r is too weak-requires replacing with flame hardened one\
the shell is weak also in the 2004r requiring harder one
the servo is a hard part not a soft one like mentioned and is expensive$100+approx
the shift kit is expensive$130+approx
the torque converter is over$370 average price
it's not cheap to do a 2004r as suggested. +the rebuild kit if it's worn

ls six

Its no joke. Depending on the combination in question I have seen 1/2 seconds come off 1320 times.


As weak as it is the shell is allready strong enough to match a built 700. The input drum for the 700 is the major weak point in the trans and there is NO replacement available. And untill someone decides to build one the 700 will not excede 500HP+- in a street car. And your just plain wrong about the stator support. It's not weak it's improperly heat treated and suffers excessive spline wear on SOME units but not all. Over all stregnth is still enough to with stand 100 HP +-.

It's also entirely optional untill you have exceded the limits of the 700. Also the 700 requires a similar upgrade just to match the 200's initial holding power. If you are lucky enough to start with a turbo car's trans then the stock one will be adiquate for well over 500 HP.

I suppose it depends on the kit.

The 700's converter is just as expensive and as I said I would use a stock one initialy.

It's not significantly more expensive than the 700 when comparing a near stock build between the two. But considering the advantages of the 200 in stregnth you would have to invest a significant amount in the 700 in hard parts.

I made my point and I stand by it. You are spouting half truths and mis-conceptions so I would suggest that you educate your self before posting next time.

ed o

point taken but am correct that price not on point-I build them also and know their inherent weaknesses. I prefer the shift of the 700r4, yes ratio's differ with the 700r4 favoring trucks. I've thought about doing one versus the 700r4 for my velle but can't bring myself to do it. My pic to the left is a 2004r if you noticed. Which kit or mod's would you recommend to change the "free" accumulation issue that keeps me on the fence with shift quality? I know B&M just uses metal spacers to make them solid.

ls six

How much HP/TQ is your chevelle making? Spacers work well though I have seen engine valve springs in cores before.

I wouldnt be so quick to eliminate the accumulators entirely in my case or in the op's case since I and most likely he will be using stock 3rd gen 9 or 10 bolt rears. The accumulators do a great job of preserving the drive line and they can effect the launch by softening the "hit" to the rear wheels.

I plan on tuning the ideal dampening effect in to the trans over time using a combination of cut springs and partial spacers. I'll also try some different springs and spacer height untill I determine the best combination for street/strip use.

Assuming that I use the same spacer to reduce the accumulator stroke a certain amount I suspect that a stiffer spring will cause a firmer initial engagement while drawing out the time untill full engagement is achieved while a softer spring will cause a softer initial engagement as the cavity fills and a shorter duration before full engagement.

If you simply want to eliminate the accumulator entirely any number of common materials can be used in place of the spring. I preffer a dense nylon cut off of a piece of dowel stock. It's plenty durable and easy to work with.


I have considered an adjustable solution using a screw through the VB and working like an adjustable FPR. Just drop the pan, crank the bolt to adjust engagement and replace the pan and fluid. But I think the VB might not like that setup

The main reason I want to use the stock converter is because I plan to road race and auto X the car and need the car to be responsive at part throttle. Idealy I would use something similar to a nitrous converter. A small dia. converter built to be tighter than typical for small converters.

I am counting on a clean stator support to keep under budget but I can search for a good one or buy a replacement piece for less than the heat treated piece. I'm not concerned with the wear on a new piece, only the dammage that can be done to the pump and converter if a worn support is used with a new converter.