Ok, I'm currently assembling a earlier 700-R4 with out an auxillary valve body, incase that matters. I'm working on installing the Lo and Reverse Clutched into the case. My rebuild book here says I should measure the height of all the clutches and steels stacked up, starting with the waved plate on the bottom and ending with the Support Assembly for the Low and Reverse clutches (big thick round thing with one way rollars inside). My book says that it should measure between 1.164" and 1.136 inches. I measure right between these two limits so I know I am right on. But when I go to put my snap ring in, it doesn't fit. Maybe I am measuring from the wrong part on my Lo/Reverse Support Assembly as the picture is somewhat unclear? Should I measure from the top of the entire Lo/Reverse Support Assembly, as now I am measuring from the notched edge. My whole set up is slightly too tall... is there suppose to be any any freeplay between the snap ring and the Lo/Reverse Support assembly or should it be a tight fit? Thanx for any input...

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Owner of a 1989 IROC Camaro, a.k.a. "The Babe Magnet". Painted a cheap metallic blue that chips off all too easily and covers over the IROC decals on the doors, also has non-leaking T-tops, ps, pw, power rear hatch, working A/C. Mods: SLP intake runners, gutted MAF sensor, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, modified air spoil, 3.2? posi rear end.
Broken stuff: rear spoiler brake light, driver side lock, power antenna, tilt steering, rear end bushings, cracked passanger side ground effect, washer fluid tab, leaking exhaust and a rotted through muffler that sparks when the car bottoms out while driving like any 17 year old does.

 

Try to get GMTech to respond he know is all or go to www.sethirdgen.org and e-mail Bernard Trip a.k.a. GMTech he runs the site.

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84 Camaro ZZ4 with HOT cam. 1.88 60' (12.98 @ 105MPH E.T.)
Other Mods: You name it and I have probably changed it.

2001 Dodge Ram Quad Cab 5.9L 4*2

ASE Certified Auto Tech
LIVE AND DIE BY THE ALMIGHTY BOWTIE!

 

Heh, I don't know about "all knowing", but thanks Mike. Are you going to the "spring fling" in March? A bunch of the SETHIRDGEN guys are going.

Any way, from what you say, you are measuring it correctly, but you need to measure them out of the tranny (stacked up), and your stack needs to consist of this (in this order, starting at the bottom):

waved plate,
friction disc
steel
friction disc
steel
friction disc,
steel,
friction disc
steel
friction disc,
lo roller support.

You then apply light pressure to push it all together (without collapsing the waved plate) and measure to the top of the notches (where the snap-ring goes).

Since you measured between 1.136-1.164, then I assume you measured correctly. NOW, since you have that figured out, now you need to use the selective backing plate that has NO identification markings. It measures .066-.073" If your selective backing plate is thicker than this (which it sounds like it is) you need to use the one I mentioned. If it still doesn't fit, then there is a problem, it shouldn't be real tight. (or the clutches will drag and burn).

You did measure the stack WITHOUT the selective backing plate, right? what does your current backing plate measure?

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-->14.97 @ 94.9 MPH<--

'97 Bonneville SSE

 

Ok, first off, thanx for taking the time to give me this information and helping me out. Ohh, and I WAS measuring the total with an extra steel in the pile in place of the backing plate. Now, I went into my garage to where my hopelessly disassembled tranny lays and I took some measurments.

Waved plate - 0.097"
Four steels (new ones) - 0.278"
Four steels (old ones) - 0.275"
Five new clutches (pre soaked in tranny fluid) - 0.430"

L/R support thickness (fromt top of tab to bottom of plate where clutch contacts piece) - 0.270"

Ok, there my information.

If you add up the waved plate, five clutched, four new steels, and the L/R support, you get.... 1.075

According to my book, that means I should use a number 5 backing plate, measuring about 0.130", correct?

On my lunch break from school tomarrow I will try to install my clutches once again, altho I am still confused as I don't have a backing plate and had used an extra steel in it's place... and I still couldn't get it to fit. A steel only measures around .070" if I remember correctly... so maybe I am really overlooking something.


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Owner of a 1989 IROC Camaro, a.k.a. "The Babe Magnet". Painted a cheap metallic blue that chips off all too easily and covers over the IROC decals on the doors, also has non-leaking T-tops, ps, pw, power rear hatch, working A/C. Mods: SLP intake runners, gutted MAF sensor, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, modified air spoil, 3.2? posi rear end.
Broken stuff: rear spoiler brake light, driver side lock, power antenna, tilt steering, rear end bushings, cracked passanger side ground effect, washer fluid tab, leaking exhaust and a rotted through muffler that sparks when the car bottoms out while driving like any 17 year old does.

 

I added up your numbers, and see where you are going wrong. You are measuring each one, and then adding them up. You have to stack them, like I said, because the waved plate will take up more space then what it measures by its self. You need to stack it, measure it, and then see which backing plate you need. They way you have done it, you assume you need the thickest backing plate available, and you probably don't.

Also make sure that if your numbers do add up properly, and you still can't get the snapring in, make sure the low-reverse piston is fully seated. Since it has "square cut" seals, it can be a ***** to press in there sometimes.

------------------
If you live in Southeastern US, check us out!
South East Thirdgen


ASE Master Tech + L1
Savannah, GA

'87 Trans Am
S/D TPI retrofit including functional PassKey, 22# injectors,
JET AFPR, Ported Plenum,
TB Coolant Bypass, Custom Cold Air,
SSM SFC, KYB Shocks, Boxed LCAs, Wonder Bar,
8mm Accel wires,
Flowmaster Exhaust,
16" GTA rims,
Corvette Servo,
-->14.97 @ 94.9 MPH<--

'97 Bonneville SSE

 

Oh yeah, I also noticed that you said you added an extra steel to take the place of the selective backing plate during measure ments. Thats a big NO-GO!!! you need to measure the four steels, five clutches, waved plate and lo-roller support ONLY!!! Nothing else.

------------------
If you live in Southeastern US, check us out!
South East Thirdgen


ASE Master Tech + L1
Savannah, GA

'87 Trans Am
S/D TPI retrofit including functional PassKey, 22# injectors,
JET AFPR, Ported Plenum,
TB Coolant Bypass, Custom Cold Air,
SSM SFC, KYB Shocks, Boxed LCAs, Wonder Bar,
8mm Accel wires,
Flowmaster Exhaust,
16" GTA rims,
Corvette Servo,
-->14.97 @ 94.9 MPH<--

'97 Bonneville SSE

 

Ok, I air tested my bottom piston and it moved up and down freely enuff. I even measured with an inside caliper the space between the top of the piston and the snap ring and got 1.215" inches.

I decided to substitute the the bottom waved plate and backing plate, just too see what would happen, with two steels and it fits perfectly in my case. There is a 0.015" gap between the support and the snap ring. I think that my waved plate is "too waved" and it is taking up too much space. Should I try to compress it and then install the snap ring?

If I get a measurement that DOESN'T need a backing plate... what do I put between the friction clutch and the waved plate? Do I just put an extra steel in there? Thanx...

------------------
Owner of a 1989 IROC Camaro, a.k.a. "The Babe Magnet". Painted a cheap metallic blue that chips off all too easily and covers over the IROC decals on the doors, also has non-leaking T-tops, ps, pw, power rear hatch, working A/C. Mods: SLP intake runners, gutted MAF sensor, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, modified air spoil, 3.2? posi rear end.
Broken stuff: rear spoiler brake light, driver side lock, power antenna, tilt steering, rear end bushings, cracked passanger side ground effect, washer fluid tab, leaking exhaust and a rotted through muffler that sparks when the car bottoms out while driving like any 17 year old does.

 

Ok, I think I figgured out what my problem is. I am rebuilding an early 700-R4. I have two books here, one on rebuilding a 1988 700-R4 and another showing a 1983 700-R4. The 88 rebuild shows a waved plate under the bottom steel. My 83 books just shows a normal steel between the bottom clutch and the piston. I tried this set up, and it seems to fit perfectly with just a small amount of backspacing. GMTech, what year tranny does your information relate to?

My own problem is that I took my origianl 89 apart and spilled the parts all over and discovered my case is screwed up... so I began to rebuild an 83 I got for free from school... and since I only have ONE waved plate... I must have mixed it up with my 83 parts. Tell me what you think of this possibility?

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Owner of a 1989 IROC Camaro, a.k.a. "The Babe Magnet". Painted a cheap metallic blue that chips off all too easily and covers over the IROC decals on the doors, also has non-leaking T-tops, ps, pw, power rear hatch, working A/C. Mods: SLP intake runners, gutted MAF sensor, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, modified air spoil, 3.2? posi rear end.
Broken stuff: rear spoiler brake light, driver side lock, power antenna, tilt steering, rear end bushings, cracked passanger side ground effect, washer fluid tab, leaking exhaust and a rotted through muffler that sparks when the car bottoms out while driving like any 17 year old does.

 

You definatly need a backing plate in there. The manual I am referencing is certainly not an '83. I will *try* to find an '83 manual at work, but I can't make any promises! Its possible that the '83 didn't have a waved plate, since '83 was only the second year of production, and were very crappy back then. The purpose of the waved plate is to help "cushion" the application of the clutch. You definatly don't want to "compress" the waved plate just to get the snap ring in, the clutches will drag and burn up. Let me see what I can dig up. Later.

------------------
If you live in Southeastern US, check us out!
South East Thirdgen


ASE Master Tech + L1
Savannah, GA

'87 Trans Am
S/D TPI retrofit including functional PassKey, 22# injectors,
JET AFPR, Ported Plenum,
TB Coolant Bypass, Custom Cold Air,
SSM SFC, KYB Shocks, Boxed LCAs, Wonder Bar,
8mm Accel wires,
Flowmaster Exhaust,
16" GTA rims,
Corvette Servo,
-->14.97 @ 94.9 MPH<--

'97 Bonneville SSE