pianiy

iTrader: (2)

I just bought a B&M Shift Improver Kit for my 700R4, planning on installing it this weekend if I've got the time. Has anybody installed this before that would like to add their $.02? Any tips, things I should look out for, problems I might encounter? I thought it would be a really simple job but once I read the instructions over it seems a bit more complex - not more than I can handle, but more time-consuming. I'm planning on also installing the drain plug - where's a good place-other than right on the bottom where it can get lopped off?? And if anybody's had any experience with the B&M Trick Shift ATF, good or bad, I'd appreciate your input. Thanks alot!

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'91 Firebird
305/TBI/700R4/T-tops
Catco high flow cat
Taylor 8mm Spiro-Pro's
ACDelco Rapidfire Plugs
K&N Air Filter
Trans Am tail light conversion
Pioneer DEH-P8200R
Pioneer 6x9's
Kenwood 8" Tube

'87 Firebird
2.8L/MPFI/700R4/220K Miles on its original, never been rebuilt engine!
Car being parted and sold, just ask what I have.

APCAMARO

i did the b&m thing this wekend and it isnt that hard just get in there and go to work really. read the directons and you'll be okay
P.S. it took me 4 hours taking my time and getting everything perfect...

FastBroker

APCAMARO,

Can you give me before/after shifting scenarios??? ie, bark/spin the ires, etc...

I'm thinking of putting the B&M kit in one of my recently rebuilt 700's... Used others in TH700, but never B&M in 700, only 350/400's. Which "level" did you use? ie, Street OR Strip? Happy with it???

Jed

Here's my .02 - take that POS B&M shift kit back to the store you bought it from and get your money back. Then go buy a decent shift kit, like the Transgo kit.

The B&M 700R4 shift kit sucks. I installed one in a 700R4 that used to be in my car. Here's what you can expect. The 1-2 shift will be very very firm, some people might find it kind of hash. The 2-3 shift will be terrible (sloppy). Downshifts will feel rough. You may not notice all of this right away but give it a little while.

But don't just take my word for it - post another message asking what people who have used B&M shift kits think of the kit. See what kind of replies you get.

TomP

I installed the B&M shift kit, and I like it- altho I never tried Transgo.

Installation tips?? Sure! I got some for ya.

First, I'd suggest you buy Fel-pro gasket #TOS-18663. That's a better gasket than what's in the B&M kkit. I'd also suggest finding Purolator trans filter #P1195, but that gasket's also lower quality than the Fel-Pro. 6 quarts of trans fluid should do it.

Second, got snap ring pliers? If not, go get some. If you find a store with a few models, try to find ones with the narrowest tips (and of course pins to fit the snap ring included in the kit). I bought a Lisle tool that let you change the pins- great idea, but the ends were too bulky, and I had a hard time getting the ends inside the hole for the pressure regulator inside the fluid pump. [edit] The pliers worked fine when I was re-installing the new snap ring, since the tips were close together. But to get the snap-ring out with the tips apart was close to impossible.

Third: Make sure, also, that you have a torque wrench for the valve-body-to-trans bolts.

Fourth, have you read & re-read & re-read those instructions? Good. Notice how B&M says to wash the valve body & sep. plate down with a solvent? I didn't know what solvent to use, so I called the B&M tech line. They told me to use a brake cleaner. I used a non-chlorinated one, just for the fact that it sounded safer than chlorinated. And yes, I used vaseline jelly to hold the checkballs in place.

Fifth: Pressure regulator- note how B&M says "don't put the ring in the step in the bore?" Well that step looks like a groove. They should've called it that. You'll need to completely bottom out the regulator in order to see the correct groove. Take a note of it when the pressure regulator is removed. I jumped at the first groove I saw- and had to take the flippin' pan back down to fix my mistake.

Sixth: Pressure regulator again! I found it hard to hold the regulator in with a screwdriver and put the snap ring in with the pliers. In fact I cursed everything. Then, the "easy" idea hit me- go buy yourself a wooden dowel, I guess 1/4 inch diameter. When you get to the pressure regulator installation part, take your dowel, and wedge it against the bottom of the regulator. Push it into the trans so the regulator is bottomed enough to see the second (correct) groove. Now, look at the other end of the dowel. Snap the other end off so the dowel will prop itself between the pressure regulator and the floor. You can have a slight angle in this. The idea is to let you use both hands to work the snap ring pliers. Once I thought of this idea, the new snap ring went up easier than.. uh, something easy.

Last, make sure on re-installation of the pan, that the mating surfaces of the tranny and gasket and pan are completely free of trans fluid. Otherwise you'll get a leak.

Yes, I like the shift kit. The concept that the Trans-go one is better somewhat bothers me... one day I'll upgrade to it. I installed the street/strip (stage 2) version instead of the off-road stage 1.

Hope this helps & good luck!

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited October 04, 2000).]

APCAMARO

I HAVE MY TV CABLE WHERE YOU CAN BARELY FEEL THE SHIFT WHEN YOU ARE DRIVING EASY AND AROUND TOWN. BUT WHEN YOU GIVE IT THE GAS ..IT EITHER CHIRPS THE TIRES OR GETS A LITTLE SIDEWAYS AND THAT IS IN MY CAR WHICH IS STOCK...BUT I LIKE IT AND I HAVE HEARD OTHER PEOPLE GO WITH THE TRANSGO BUT I THINK I MADE A GOOD DECISON...

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Red 87'Z-28 350 tpi
700r4 w/b&m shift cor. servo

vortecfcar

I have the B and M kit....It shifted like crap before the Corvette servo install. Sloppy 2-3 and weak 1-2 even. Installed the servo ($36 and 30 min) and I had the tire barking, sideways every downshift trans I always wanted

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91 RS W/carbed 350, Vortec heads, performer rpm, Comp cams Xtreme energy 280 grind. BFG Drag radials. 3.42 posi,Corvette servoed 700r4, ****ty stock converter
13.24@104

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for all the advice... I've heard from somebody on the camaroz28 board that I should go with the TransGo kit also, but right now, I don't have the 130 BUCKS!! that it costs so I'm going with the next best (IMO) solution. I also heard from the same guy that I will have a slipping tranny on my hands after a while with the kit in. While ruining this tranny is definitely NOT what I want to I do have a spare that I pulled from my old Firebird sitting in my driveway and its in very good condition so I've got a backup.

Also, TomP:
- About the gaskets, if the one included (in your opinion) isn't that good than what should I be looking for? I bought a tranny filter too and the gasket from that one is a bit thinner than the B&M but a bit wider too and has some better shape characteristics to it. Would I be fine with that?

- Another thing, the shop I bought the kit from suggested that I put a *tiny* bit of RTV Gasket Sealer on the gasket, do you recommend this?

- And one last thing, I bought 4 quarts of B&M Trick Shift ATF without knowing how much fluid I needed exactly. Haynes says 5, and you say 6, would diluting the Trick Shift fluid with regular ATF just negate the improved shifting characteristics of the Trick Shift fluid or does it matter? (Should I just go out and buy more of the same ATF is what I'm saying).

Sorry, one more general question: somebody also suggested a tranny cooler. When I pulled out my old tranny it had a feed and return line that went to the front of the engine bay, I didn't look too closely at what it was for but its probably to cool the fluid right? If I were to install a tranny cooler where would I install it and what does it look like in the first place?

Other than that I appreciate all the help and I'll let you know how it goes.

[This message has been edited by pianiy (edited October 04, 2000).]

Justins86bird

Well, i installed my B&M kit over 4 years ago and had no problems with it. Tire chirping 1-2 shift, snappy downshifts. It could be a bit softer of a shift in the rain tho, but i dont have a posi either.

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-Justin-
T-Top '86 5.0L LG4 700R4 WS6 Now Bilstein equipped!
T-Top '92 5.0L TBI 700R4
My '86 Firebird Homepage
The F-body Model Kit Pictoral Archive (updated 9/18/00)

There can be only one!!

FastBroker

FYI, the B&M TransPak (not Shift Improver Kit) is a more complete kit that will give you VASTLY better results than the shift improver kit alone. The other manufacturers kits are more like the TransPak, too. About $50 or so. Go to the B&M web site and you can get the PDF instructions for it there. Can still install it in the vehicle and it shifts as hard or soft as you want it to. B&M will/can tell you what steps to leave out to change shift firmness/rpm levels.

TomP

Well, cork gaskets flat out suck. The Felpro part # I gave you is a neoprene gasket, which is the best. If you got a black one with the filter, it's better than cork but not as good as the Felpro.

Nope! Keep the sealant off. If you make sure the flanges of the pan are clean of trans fluid (wipe them repeatedly with paper towels), and torque the bolts to spec in a crossing pattern, then you won't get a leak. I've never leaked, and I've never used a sealant. Oh, heh, almost forgot, sealants aren't recommended for the fear that they'll somehow contaminate the trans fluid, or wear off and float bits of sealant into the filter.

I used Trick Shift twice.. and haven't used it again. I didn't notice any lack of hardness. Some guys say it's the same as Ford trans fluid. Ford trans fluid has more friction modifiers in it, because supposedly their clutches won't grip without it! It's up to you..

It looks like a tiny radiator, and would go in front of your "real" radiator. It gets installed in-line with your existing cooler lines, which are the ones you guessed at. The reason is, temperature exchange is more efficent between a solid and fluid than it is for a solid and air. You -could- skip the original factory cooler, but you'd have to buy a larger aftermarket unit. I use a B&M Supercooler.

Hey for giggles when you have your old filter on the ground, take pliers to it, and separate the metal part from the plastic part. Unfold the filter medium, and look for metal.

Good luck! Let us know if ya need more!

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited October 05, 2000).]

TomP

FastBroker, either I'm on crack, or B&M scanned something wrong- those instructions look just like the ones I got with the regular Shift Improver Kit! The only change was the addition of the 1993 valve body, and the "how to make a TV cable bracket" section at the end.

Are there pages that B&M didn't scan in?? What they have scanned are the exact procedures I folloed for the regular kit. ??

Thanks,


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

I've got a big problem here!! I've got two flow checkballs left over!

I noticed this before I put everything back together again, so I double, even triple checked the directions and my work to make sure I had a checkball in every location it called for, yet I used the 6 and have 2 left over! This is for a 700R4 between '88-'92, specifically a '91. The kit instructions have a different number of checkballs being used for different 700R4 production years. Has anybody else had this?? Am I supposed to use less checkballs after installing the kit??

Please help!! I've got everything back together and the valve body back on the car but not torqued down so I can still easily take it off.

FastBroker

The pages I downloaded were so explcit that you could have made a shift kit from scratch. Either you dowloaded it wrong or they aren't letting people see the entire direction set anymore. Should be accumulator spring/spacer changes and lots of other spring changes/removal/swap/spacer stuff in there.

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited October 06, 2000).]

Kevin S

If I remember correctly(it's been about 6 months since I installed my B&M kit)you are safe.I know I had atleast one checkball left.
Come to think of it.......yeah.... your safe

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[This message has been edited by Kevin S (edited October 06, 2000).]

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

Thank you Kevin! I'm sitting here freaking out trying to decide whether to just screw it and torque everything down, slap the pan on, and fill it and hope everything is fine or ... well I don't know WHAT I would do... Its not like I have a couple hundred bucks to shell out if I ruin this tranny ya know? Thanks alot though! I'm gonna finish up now and see how this thing works!

FastBroker

Call B&M tech support. That's what I would do. Yeah, might be SOL because of the weekend, though. Next plan, go to local tranny shop and ask around. After bringing a dozen donuts to the manager as payment for his info, he'll probably tell you anything.

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

I've got a big problem here!! I've got two flow checkballs left over!

I noticed this before I put everything back together again, so I double, even triple checked the directions and my work to make sure I had a checkball in every location it called for, yet I used the 6 and have 2 left over! This is for a 700R4 between '88-'92, specifically a '91. The kit instructions have a different number of checkballs being used for different 700R4 production years. Has anybody else had this?? Am I supposed to use less checkballs after installing the kit??

Please help!! I've got everything back together and the valve body back on the car but not torqued down so I can still easily take it off.

[edit] make that THREE check ***** left over... just found one cleaning up...

FastBroker

Gotta get those TRANSPAK instructions from B&M. They have detailed ball position pictures for ALL the 700's in there.

I just downloaded them again to check... All info is there. Make sure you are downloading the 585meg 700R4 file, not the smaller file for the 700's. pages 6 and 7 have the ball location/size info.

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited October 07, 2000).]

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

Ok, well I think I can finally claim success! After a long day yesterday, a mild day today, and a transmission pan, the kit is in and the car is running fine. I've noticed the firmed up shifts, especially the downshifts - downshifting is on the fly now and makes before feel like it took forever. The three checkballs don't seem to be needed but I'll still be holding on to them just in case.

I thought I was sufficiently mechanically inclined but this job proved me to be an idiot sometimes...

As TomP stated, the pressure regulator valve is a hell of a job... I had difficulty grabbing the retaining ring to get it OUT, I was just able to pull one end of it out of the groove then bend it a bit and grab it with my needle-nose pliers. Once it was out, the whole assembly just fell out on my face! Trying to put it back IN wasn't too peachy, having to align the spacers correctly with the holes - otherwise it just refused to go in, but the lock ring wasn't a problem. I took Tom's advice about the dowel (Thanks alot!) and kept the assembly in while manuevering the spring.

Nobody told me a good location for the drain plug except near the rear so I put the pan up to the case and checked out the clearances but misjudged exactly how much I needed. Once I had the hole drilled and the plug installed I found out it wasn't going to fit. I decided I was just going to use the pan from my old tranny that I still had so I experimented with a better location on my present pan. Drilled a new hole, made it work. Today I pulled the pan off the old tranny, cleaned it up, drilled it, installed the plug, and slapped it on the case. This isn't over YET... I torqued the drain plug down too much and sandwiched the washer, distorting it, now I have a slight leak. But at least everything else is fine. I've patched up the screwed pan with hardening putty and it should be fine just to put back on my old tranny to store it. I did get the Fel-Pro gasket and it definitely is alot better than the cork.

I thank everyone who has given me suggestions on this and hope the tranny doesn't show any signs of problems people have mentioned about shift kits. Now to get back my life...

------------------
'91 Firebird
305/TBI/700R4/T-tops
Mods: Catco high flow cat - B&M Shift kit - Taylor 8mm Spiro-Pro's - ACDelco Rapidfire Plugs - K&N Air Filter - Trans Am tail light conversion
Stereo: Pioneer DEH-P8200R - Pioneer 6x9's - Kenwood 8" Tube
'91 Pics

'87 Firebird
2.8L/MPFI/700R4/220K Miles on its original, never been rebuilt engine!
Car being parted and sold, just ask what I have.
'87 Pics

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

I just checked the online PDF's on B&M site for the checkball locations just out of curiousity and they've got pretty much the same thing that I had in my directions but on the diagram showing the locations for the years of '88-'92 the checkball capsule on the far right is what has my attention now. My directions didn't say what this is for or whether or not a checkball belongs in there and I know I didn't put one in there. Is that a location for one of the checkballs??

FastBroker

You'd better get those back in there, man, or your trans could be toast in NO TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All I can say is drop the trans valve body, look to see where you have ***** now, and where you have mising *****, pull the ones out of your pocket and put them where they belong. he hift kit MAY want you to remove one of the ***** but if you don't remember reading that, you're in deep yogurt. Those ball are called check ***** for a reason. They are inricate pieces in the flow system of your tranny and could cause you to ruin your tranny like in 1 minute under the right (or WRONG in your case) conditions.

Take it apart, man...