gothicnerd5057

hey guys i was wondering if it is possible to install a saginaw 4 speed out of an old el camino into my 3rd gen firebird formula with a 305 TBI, as my 700r4 is going and really needs a rebuild. from what i read, something about clutch packs in the tranny are bad, but i want a standard in it anyway. the saginaw should bolt up but when i google about it theres nothing about installing it. will the input shaft splines and output the same? is there anything im gonna have to worry about putting it in besides the speedo cable box do-dad that converts it to electric? crossmember movement? the drive shaft should work in theory bc its a longtail tranny. also i was wondering on how you would hook up the linkage for the tranny in the 3rd gen. from what i have read... only 82 and 83 had mechanical linkage. can you still install it when they only offered a hydraulic clutch for that year? i was just wondering if it can be done without too much modification bc i cannot find information anywhere about it. ive found stuff about the BW and the muncies, but no saginaw. also... will the pedal assembly and clutch linkage out of the same el camino work? i assume late 70's. not sure.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Actually, this issue has been adressed quite a few times on here. In short summary, it's expensive to do and really not worth it. The Saginaw requires pretty much the same conversion parts as the BW or Muncie. The only driveshaft that works without modification is the early 82-83 TH200/4-Speed ones. The 700r4/T5 driveshafts are shorter, as well as the torque arm. Spohn Peformance sells a conversion crossmember/torque arm setup that works with the old 4 speeds, but it's pretty spendy. That El Camino linkage won't work at all. The only linkage options you have is the 82-83, 3rd gen mechanical linkage, including the matching bellhousing, or a really expensive aftermarket setup that uses the hydraulic throwout bearing. What you really need to take into account is the Saginaw 4 speed is considered the bottom of the barrel when it comes to GM 4 speeds. Even a Muncie or BW Super T10 is only marginally worth it due to the lack of an overdrive gear (5th). GM actually offered a Saginaw 4 speed in the early 3rd gens that's a direct fit, but according to most people that own one, it's a terrible trans. I'll be honest, I've got a Muncie in my 69 Camaro, and I'm seriously considering spending the cash to replace it with a Tremec TKO 5 speed. Even with the M20, which has the lower 2.52 1st gear, and 3.73 rearend gears, the takeoff is pretty sluggish, and on the other end of the spectrum, your motor is all wound up on the freeway without an overdrive. The newer 5 and 6 speed trannys are LEAGUES better for all around driveability. Another big benefit with the newer trannys is that you can run them with the 84-92, factory hydraulic linkage. The 82-83 mechanical linkage setup is notorious for breaking and other problems. Just my .02.