Complete rear end swappage!
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Car: 91 RS
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Complete rear end swappage!
I bought an upgraded rear end, from out of a 3rd gen, complete with disc brakes, posi, and said he wasnt sure if its a 3.23 or 3.42 but im gonna find out by taking off the plate. also, how can you be assured a rear is a posi? i searched for pictures but found nothing. i think i can figure it out by checkin if only the z28's came with this setup and which gears came in em. but everythings on them, e brake cables and all! pads are still good too. im just waiting for my UMI parts all to get here so i can do EVERYTHING at once. ill have it on a body lift so it should be good. so im checkin if theres any mods ill have to do, or is this going to be smooth sailing swap out since the rear end has all cables and lines? thanks guys, and ill post up all the pictures of my before and after when im done and hopefully ill be
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
working on EXACT same thing myself.
91rs with drum...swapping to a 3.23/posi/disc.
Dont forget to change the prop valve and slave cylinder.
Other then that, to me it appears to be a strait swap.
91rs with drum...swapping to a 3.23/posi/disc.
Dont forget to change the prop valve and slave cylinder.
Other then that, to me it appears to be a strait swap.
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
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Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
buahh, saved myself some work.
The master cyl is not different. But the prop valve is.
The master cyl is not different. But the prop valve is.
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Car: 91 RS
Engine: 350 TPI
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
honestly I have no idea what a prop valve is, or located. can i just get one from the local parts store? and earlier you said the slave cylinders were different or did you mean the master cylinder? I would probably know what your talking about but until my UMI parts come in its not going on the frame lift. thanks and let me know how it comes along!
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Car: 80 SE/TTA;88 T/A GTA;86 T/A
Engine: 4.9L Turbo; LT1; empty
Transmission: TH350; T56; empty
Axle/Gears: 3:23 disk; 4:10 disk ; 3.42 disk
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
prop valve = proportioning valve/combination valve.
you need a disc/disc set up, you (i'm assuming) have a disc/drum setup of which drums use more or less (can't remember at this point) pressure to operate than drums. People will suggest 89+ 1LE proportioning/combination valves.
number two...didn't know we had a slave cylinder for our brake?! master may be different, you would have to check www.GMpartsdirect.com for that answer.
you need a disc/disc set up, you (i'm assuming) have a disc/drum setup of which drums use more or less (can't remember at this point) pressure to operate than drums. People will suggest 89+ 1LE proportioning/combination valves.
number two...didn't know we had a slave cylinder for our brake?! master may be different, you would have to check www.GMpartsdirect.com for that answer.
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Car: 91 RS
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
prop valve = proportioning valve/combination valve.
you need a disc/disc set up, you (i'm assuming) have a disc/drum setup of which drums use more or less (can't remember at this point) pressure to operate than drums. People will suggest 89+ 1LE proportioning/combination valves.
number two...didn't know we had a slave cylinder for our brake?! master may be different, you would have to check www.GMpartsdirect.com for that answer.
you need a disc/disc set up, you (i'm assuming) have a disc/drum setup of which drums use more or less (can't remember at this point) pressure to operate than drums. People will suggest 89+ 1LE proportioning/combination valves.
number two...didn't know we had a slave cylinder for our brake?! master may be different, you would have to check www.GMpartsdirect.com for that answer.
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Car: 80 SE/TTA;88 T/A GTA;86 T/A
Engine: 4.9L Turbo; LT1; empty
Transmission: TH350; T56; empty
Axle/Gears: 3:23 disk; 4:10 disk ; 3.42 disk
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
prop valve is underneath the master cylinder/container. It's connected by two brake lines coming out of the master, and has 3 brake lines (two out the bottom and 1 out the back). One goes to the back, running along the body, right past the fuel pump (directly beside the driver side rear shock) is where the body line meets the rubber brake line that connects the line to the axle. At the end of that you will meet a T-splitter, of which those two lines will go into that T-split. Now be aware, they used different ends...when i took my drum axle out in favor of the LS1 rear....my drums were using bubble fittings into the T-split off of the rubber line. The LS1 disk rear lines used a double flare. I had to very simply cut the ends off and create the bubble fitting (big PITA) to make the LS1 disk axle lines work with my drum body-to-axle rubber line.
In summation...your prop valve is that quorky looking thing that is directly below the master cyliner connected by two brake lines from the MC, and three lines going to the rest of the body.
In summation...your prop valve is that quorky looking thing that is directly below the master cyliner connected by two brake lines from the MC, and three lines going to the rest of the body.
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Car: 80 SE/TTA;88 T/A GTA;86 T/A
Engine: 4.9L Turbo; LT1; empty
Transmission: TH350; T56; empty
Axle/Gears: 3:23 disk; 4:10 disk ; 3.42 disk
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
and yes, i went through this headache with my LS1 rear axle swap. As i mentioned above, i made due with what i had...because i searched 3 stores for a disc version of my body to axle rubber line and noone had them, all they had were drum body to axle lines. So i said F**K it and just made bubble fittings on the two axle lines and put it all together with the proper fittings and all is perfect. After that i found someone with an 89 Formula with the J65:4 wheel disc brakes, and got his proportioning valve. From what i've read...89 uses the same fittings as 88 and older...but i'm not sure what 90 uses if they changed the fittings. Then i've heard 91 and 92 (possibly 90 as well) were all the same. If you are doing searches...check out anything that "ebmiller" has commented on. He's our brake specialist and the guru when it comes to modifications.
As far as slave cylinder...there are wheel cylinders in the drum setup and pistons in the calipers...i've never heard of a salve cylinder in a brake system. I have not read/heard it all so i'm not calling anyone a liar, just saying, i've never heard of such a thing.
As far as slave cylinder...there are wheel cylinders in the drum setup and pistons in the calipers...i've never heard of a salve cylinder in a brake system. I have not read/heard it all so i'm not calling anyone a liar, just saying, i've never heard of such a thing.
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Car: 91 RS
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
and yes, i went through this headache with my LS1 rear axle swap. As i mentioned above, i made due with what i had...because i searched 3 stores for a disc version of my body to axle rubber line and noone had them, all they had were drum body to axle lines. So i said F**K it and just made bubble fittings on the two axle lines and put it all together with the proper fittings and all is perfect. After that i found someone with an 89 Formula with the J65:4 wheel disc brakes, and got his proportioning valve. From what i've read...89 uses the same fittings as 88 and older...but i'm not sure what 90 uses if they changed the fittings. Then i've heard 91 and 92 (possibly 90 as well) were all the same. If you are doing searches...check out anything that "ebmiller" has commented on. He's our brake specialist and the guru when it comes to modifications.
As far as slave cylinder...there are wheel cylinders in the drum setup and pistons in the calipers...i've never heard of a salve cylinder in a brake system. I have not read/heard it all so i'm not calling anyone a liar, just saying, i've never heard of such a thing.
As far as slave cylinder...there are wheel cylinders in the drum setup and pistons in the calipers...i've never heard of a salve cylinder in a brake system. I have not read/heard it all so i'm not calling anyone a liar, just saying, i've never heard of such a thing.
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Car: 80 SE/TTA;88 T/A GTA;86 T/A
Engine: 4.9L Turbo; LT1; empty
Transmission: TH350; T56; empty
Axle/Gears: 3:23 disk; 4:10 disk ; 3.42 disk
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
shouldn't be a problem, just letting you know that it may be a disc/drum change that they used the different fittings. Just letting you know to be aware of possibilities and to make sure you get all the parts you need before you crawl underneath. Otherwise, swap the proportioning valve and it should be pretty straight foward. Good luck!
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Car: 91 RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
shouldn't be a problem, just letting you know that it may be a disc/drum change that they used the different fittings. Just letting you know to be aware of possibilities and to make sure you get all the parts you need before you crawl underneath. Otherwise, swap the proportioning valve and it should be pretty straight foward. Good luck!
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Car: 80 SE/TTA;88 T/A GTA;86 T/A
Engine: 4.9L Turbo; LT1; empty
Transmission: TH350; T56; empty
Axle/Gears: 3:23 disk; 4:10 disk ; 3.42 disk
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
you can use a GM proportioning vavle from a 82-92 (89+ recommended because it's configured for larger rotors) firebird/camaro with 4 disk brakes (i just got one for $30 shipped) for the cleanest application. By what i mean is the same fittings is that you can literally unbolt the stock disc/drum prop valve that you have on the car right now, and reinstall a disc/disc prop valve with absolutely no modification.
That means you disconnect the 5 connections to the disc/drum prop valve, and re-connect the 5 connections to the disc/disc prop valve. Otherwise you can spend the $100+ for an adjustable prop valve and then you would have to custom plumb that into your rear brake line to the rear axle. Your preference. The adjustable prop valve would give you more control and you can tinker with with how much pressure is going to the rear. Otherwise if you are interested in a stock, simple, with no other modifications, then use a stock GM proportioning valve.
That means you disconnect the 5 connections to the disc/drum prop valve, and re-connect the 5 connections to the disc/disc prop valve. Otherwise you can spend the $100+ for an adjustable prop valve and then you would have to custom plumb that into your rear brake line to the rear axle. Your preference. The adjustable prop valve would give you more control and you can tinker with with how much pressure is going to the rear. Otherwise if you are interested in a stock, simple, with no other modifications, then use a stock GM proportioning valve.
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
actually, i found out the hard way that they changed the fittings on the lines from the prop valve to the calipers in mid-89. he will need the prop valve from an '89 1/2 up to work with his brake lines.
Last edited by 87zjeff; 04-15-2008 at 07:54 PM. Reason: spelling
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Car: 80 SE/TTA;88 T/A GTA;86 T/A
Engine: 4.9L Turbo; LT1; empty
Transmission: TH350; T56; empty
Axle/Gears: 3:23 disk; 4:10 disk ; 3.42 disk
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
alright, as i mentioned way up i heard they made a change somewhere around 90. Seems they made quite a few changes in 89. I guess i got lucky as hell though and picked one up from an 89 4 disc formula and she bolted right in. Then again, can't you get the fitting from a 89 1/2 + car and put it on the brake line of your older car?? Isn't is the same size brake line going to the back, just a different fitting?
I sat there for an hour comparing my 88 disc/drum prop valve to the new 89 disc/disc prop valve i got in the mail...and they look identical outside, and very similar if not identical. My curiosity is that aren't just the springs a different rate (plunger/valves looked different as well). Can't you swap the spring and plunger into a disc/drum prop valve and get the right pressure so that you don't even need to take it off the car??? (sorry if this is hi-jacking your thread, but if you went this route it may prove even easier).
I sat there for an hour comparing my 88 disc/drum prop valve to the new 89 disc/disc prop valve i got in the mail...and they look identical outside, and very similar if not identical. My curiosity is that aren't just the springs a different rate (plunger/valves looked different as well). Can't you swap the spring and plunger into a disc/drum prop valve and get the right pressure so that you don't even need to take it off the car??? (sorry if this is hi-jacking your thread, but if you went this route it may prove even easier).
Last edited by 84redta; 04-15-2008 at 08:04 PM.
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
Doh, yea I meant to put master cyl on that first one. sorry.
I searched and the master cyl is the same between drum and disc. on 91/92 model.
I was told 89'ish is when the thread pitch changed on the prop valve from SAE to metric. I had to order mine from gm.
I had my old axle out tonight in just over 1 hr. After 3hrs the new one is part way in along with some rust control work.
My hardline that goes under the car is partly pinched, so I'm going to have to wait tell the weekend and go to a junkyard to get a replacement.
I searched and the master cyl is the same between drum and disc. on 91/92 model.
I was told 89'ish is when the thread pitch changed on the prop valve from SAE to metric. I had to order mine from gm.
I had my old axle out tonight in just over 1 hr. After 3hrs the new one is part way in along with some rust control work.
My hardline that goes under the car is partly pinched, so I'm going to have to wait tell the weekend and go to a junkyard to get a replacement.
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
alright, as i mentioned way up i heard they made a change somewhere around 90. Seems they made quite a few changes in 89. I guess i got lucky as hell though and picked one up from an 89 4 disc formula and she bolted right in. Then again, can't you get the fitting from a 89 1/2 + car and put it on the brake line of your older car?? Isn't is the same size brake line going to the back, just a different fitting?
I sat there for an hour comparing my 88 disc/drum prop valve to the new 89 disc/disc prop valve i got in the mail...and they look identical outside, and very similar if not identical. My curiosity is that aren't just the springs a different rate (plunger/valves looked different as well). Can't you swap the spring and plunger into a disc/drum prop valve and get the right pressure so that you don't even need to take it off the car??? (sorry if this is hi-jacking your thread, but if you went this route it may prove even easier).
I sat there for an hour comparing my 88 disc/drum prop valve to the new 89 disc/disc prop valve i got in the mail...and they look identical outside, and very similar if not identical. My curiosity is that aren't just the springs a different rate (plunger/valves looked different as well). Can't you swap the spring and plunger into a disc/drum prop valve and get the right pressure so that you don't even need to take it off the car??? (sorry if this is hi-jacking your thread, but if you went this route it may prove even easier).
the lines are the same size. i got lucky(kinda) because i had the motor out when i did mine and just swapped the whole line. i don't know what the internals look like. don't know if they will swap or not. somewhere in one of the threads is discussion of the theory of removing or changing just the spring to increase the line pressure needed but i don't think it ever came to resolution.
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Car: 91 RS
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
you can use a GM proportioning vavle from a 82-92 (89+ recommended because it's configured for larger rotors) firebird/camaro with 4 disk brakes (i just got one for $30 shipped) for the cleanest application. By what i mean is the same fittings is that you can literally unbolt the stock disc/drum prop valve that you have on the car right now, and reinstall a disc/disc prop valve with absolutely no modification.
alright, as i mentioned way up i heard they made a change somewhere around 90. Seems they made quite a few changes in 89. I guess i got lucky as hell though and picked one up from an 89 4 disc formula and she bolted right in. Then again, can't you get the fitting from a 89 1/2 + car and put it on the brake line of your older car?? Isn't is the same size brake line going to the back, just a different fitting?
I sat there for an hour comparing my 88 disc/drum prop valve to the new 89 disc/disc prop valve i got in the mail...and they look identical outside, and very similar if not identical. My curiosity is that aren't just the springs a different rate (plunger/valves looked different as well). Can't you swap the spring and plunger into a disc/drum prop valve and get the right pressure so that you don't even need to take it off the car??? (sorry if this is hi-jacking your thread, but if you went this route it may prove even easier).
I sat there for an hour comparing my 88 disc/drum prop valve to the new 89 disc/disc prop valve i got in the mail...and they look identical outside, and very similar if not identical. My curiosity is that aren't just the springs a different rate (plunger/valves looked different as well). Can't you swap the spring and plunger into a disc/drum prop valve and get the right pressure so that you don't even need to take it off the car??? (sorry if this is hi-jacking your thread, but if you went this route it may prove even easier).
Doh, yea I meant to put master cyl on that first one. sorry.
I searched and the master cyl is the same between drum and disc. on 91/92 model.
I was told 89'ish is when the thread pitch changed on the prop valve from SAE to metric. I had to order mine from gm.
I had my old axle out tonight in just over 1 hr. After 3hrs the new one is part way in along with some rust control work.
My hardline that goes under the car is partly pinched, so I'm going to have to wait tell the weekend and go to a junkyard to get a replacement.
I searched and the master cyl is the same between drum and disc. on 91/92 model.
I was told 89'ish is when the thread pitch changed on the prop valve from SAE to metric. I had to order mine from gm.
I had my old axle out tonight in just over 1 hr. After 3hrs the new one is part way in along with some rust control work.
My hardline that goes under the car is partly pinched, so I'm going to have to wait tell the weekend and go to a junkyard to get a replacement.
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
It got pinced because the tube is rusted in the nut.
You can pinch the line if you drop the axle down to soon. Make sure you take the bracket the holds the brake line to the body loose before you drop the axle. You'll see what I'm talkin about when you crawl under the car.
Yes, you need an 89+ J65 prop valve. So far everything else looks like direct swap.
I'll try and snap some pics tonight. But as I said, its already partway back in. I just want to get it off jackstands and back onto the tires tonight. I dont like crawling under a car on stands
You can pinch the line if you drop the axle down to soon. Make sure you take the bracket the holds the brake line to the body loose before you drop the axle. You'll see what I'm talkin about when you crawl under the car.
Yes, you need an 89+ J65 prop valve. So far everything else looks like direct swap.
I'll try and snap some pics tonight. But as I said, its already partway back in. I just want to get it off jackstands and back onto the tires tonight. I dont like crawling under a car on stands
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Car: 80 SE/TTA;88 T/A GTA;86 T/A
Engine: 4.9L Turbo; LT1; empty
Transmission: TH350; T56; empty
Axle/Gears: 3:23 disk; 4:10 disk ; 3.42 disk
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
here's a bind...the more i'm reading...the more i'm reading that 91/92 has the same prop valve for disc or drum...so past that i'm not going to be able to comment. I have looked up a 1991 firebird and it still shows disc or no disc. Just to be safe get a 4 wheel disc prop valve.
Last edited by 84redta; 04-16-2008 at 05:01 PM.
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
ok. It is all bolted in. I could not get my ebrake cables to reach. I have ordered new ones to be here saturday mid day.
Cant wait to drive it
Cant wait to drive it
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Car: 91 RS
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
It got pinced because the tube is rusted in the nut.
You can pinch the line if you drop the axle down to soon. Make sure you take the bracket the holds the brake line to the body loose before you drop the axle. You'll see what I'm talkin about when you crawl under the car.
Yes, you need an 89+ J65 prop valve. So far everything else looks like direct swap.
I'll try and snap some pics tonight. But as I said, its already partway back in. I just want to get it off jackstands and back onto the tires tonight. I dont like crawling under a car on stands
You can pinch the line if you drop the axle down to soon. Make sure you take the bracket the holds the brake line to the body loose before you drop the axle. You'll see what I'm talkin about when you crawl under the car.
Yes, you need an 89+ J65 prop valve. So far everything else looks like direct swap.
I'll try and snap some pics tonight. But as I said, its already partway back in. I just want to get it off jackstands and back onto the tires tonight. I dont like crawling under a car on stands
----------
----------
OH one more thing redta. you swapped out to a 3.23 what are some of the changes involved? just wondering i havent heard of an example..
Last edited by samiam91RS; 04-17-2008 at 11:23 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
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Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
I ordered mine about 3-4 years ago for a drum car to get more rear pressure. I found the part number on this site. But I ordered it from gmpartsdirect. EDIT 10164112 should be it.
My axle came with the ebrake cables as well. But they werent long enough. I'm going to try and drive it around the neighborhood tonight.
2.73/open/disc to 3.23/posi/drum. New springs, and hopefully fixed some of my "clunks" in the drivetrain.
My axle came with the ebrake cables as well. But they werent long enough. I'm going to try and drive it around the neighborhood tonight.
2.73/open/disc to 3.23/posi/drum. New springs, and hopefully fixed some of my "clunks" in the drivetrain.
Last edited by Dale; 04-18-2008 at 12:03 PM. Reason: found #
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Car: 91 RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
I ordered mine about 3-4 years ago for a drum car to get more rear pressure. I found the part number on this site. But I ordered it from gmpartsdirect. EDIT 10164112 should be it.
My axle came with the ebrake cables as well. But they werent long enough. I'm going to try and drive it around the neighborhood tonight.
2.73/open/disc to 3.23/posi/drum. New springs, and hopefully fixed some of my "clunks" in the drivetrain.
My axle came with the ebrake cables as well. But they werent long enough. I'm going to try and drive it around the neighborhood tonight.
2.73/open/disc to 3.23/posi/drum. New springs, and hopefully fixed some of my "clunks" in the drivetrain.
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
----------
Last edited by samiam91RS; 04-18-2008 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
I common thing for drum guys to do is install a 4disc prop valve in to put more pressure on the rears for more even breaking. I did that to my old v6, and moved it over to this v8 when I got it.
I drove mine around tonight w/o the ebrake cables in. Quite nice Think I may still have some air in the lines.
ebrakes on order, and should be in noon tommorow.........
Tru-Torque c94264/Bendix c1621
I drove mine around tonight w/o the ebrake cables in. Quite nice Think I may still have some air in the lines.
ebrakes on order, and should be in noon tommorow.........
Tru-Torque c94264/Bendix c1621
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Car: 91 RS
Engine: 350 TPI
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
I common thing for drum guys to do is install a 4disc prop valve in to put more pressure on the rears for more even breaking. I did that to my old v6, and moved it over to this v8 when I got it.
I drove mine around tonight w/o the ebrake cables in. Quite nice Think I may still have some air in the lines.
ebrakes on order, and should be in noon tommorow.........
Tru-Torque c94264/Bendix c1621
I drove mine around tonight w/o the ebrake cables in. Quite nice Think I may still have some air in the lines.
ebrakes on order, and should be in noon tommorow.........
Tru-Torque c94264/Bendix c1621
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
All part numbers came off here on TGO. The tru-torque is for partsamerica/advanced. I think autozone carrys that brand too.
Both tires spin on a burnout. Seems to be willing to spin the tires easier(both). Brakes seem a little more even, and thats still with a partly pinced line. I havent taken it over 30mph yet.
going to try and find hardlines and some nice looking 15" smokys
Both tires spin on a burnout. Seems to be willing to spin the tires easier(both). Brakes seem a little more even, and thats still with a partly pinced line. I havent taken it over 30mph yet.
going to try and find hardlines and some nice looking 15" smokys
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Car: 91 RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
hmm well i dont think that i will need new cables it has them already from the beginning to the end and that round cushion on the left side, that prevents it from smushing. well, i got almost everything out! the panhard bar and the LCA's and the sway bar end links, and the coils. i just didnt take the shocks off because the lines would bend (brake lines) and thats my only problem now!! the freaking BOLT that srews into the rubber line connection will NOT COME OFF!!! i twisted it so hard the metal line was turning and that FU--ING bolt will not budge! so i figured i'd go another route, and take that block fitting that bolted on the axle, then splits to a T....so i got one off and i tried to take the other one off but i pretty much ran out of time. the hobby center on base closes at 1700 (5 pm) so i left it over night on the frame lift still. id post some pcitures but dont really know how to on here, is it HTML?
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Car: 91 RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
ok i think i got the pictures on there. well i did get any rear end pics like i said i ran outta time i just threw on the wheels when i was done its pretty much bare in between in the second pic you can see the newer rear almost ready to go in and the other old parts laying on the left. but thats it in a nut shell..
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
see, you are having the same problem I had.
I took some map gas to the joint, heated it tell it started to smoke, but not cherry red. Then vise-gripped one end, and 15mm the other end. Twist the hose end, not the tube end.
Then when its apart, keep soaking the hardline with wd40/etc. Mine finally came loose.
I took some map gas to the joint, heated it tell it started to smoke, but not cherry red. Then vise-gripped one end, and 15mm the other end. Twist the hose end, not the tube end.
Then when its apart, keep soaking the hardline with wd40/etc. Mine finally came loose.
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Car: 91 RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
see, you are having the same problem I had.
I took some map gas to the joint, heated it tell it started to smoke, but not cherry red. Then vise-gripped one end, and 15mm the other end. Twist the hose end, not the tube end.
Then when its apart, keep soaking the hardline with wd40/etc. Mine finally came loose.
I took some map gas to the joint, heated it tell it started to smoke, but not cherry red. Then vise-gripped one end, and 15mm the other end. Twist the hose end, not the tube end.
Then when its apart, keep soaking the hardline with wd40/etc. Mine finally came loose.
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Car: 1989 camaro rs
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
what happens if i use my front disc/ rear drum prop valve with a disc/disc setup? will it work, also is it something that i can change later on?
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
What do I need to watch for if I was to replace a 10 bolt differential with a 9 bolt? Would I have to resize the driveshaft or torque arm?
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
----------
hmmm i dont see a problem..what kind of 10 bolt, out of what? if you did i think all you would need to do is get a U joint i think it called? i know theres also a yoke fitting i dont know if that connects by the torque arm, or by the tranny. some correct me if im wrong..
Last edited by samiam91RS; 04-20-2008 at 12:04 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
I currently have a GM 10 bolt in my Firebird but the previous owner put 4.10 ring and pinion in it. The donor car has the Borg-Warner 9 bolt which has a 3.27. I would leave the 4.10 alone if I never drove outside of the city but it sucks for expressway driving.
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Car: 1986 Trans AM
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
I guess I'll join the list of people swapping year ends this spring. I am in the proccess of putting in a 9 bolt with 3:23's I am sending it out to have it powder coated before I install it and want to replace all the bearings and seals. my question is I have the axles out and need to get the bearing off, However, the Inner and Outer bearing retainers are preventing this. How can I pull this off? any help would be appreciated.
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
map gas? what the hell is that stuff? man i soaked that stuff with PB blaster, good for nothing! maybe wd would work better, i dunno. well like i said im trying to go an alternative route since i have the lines connected on the rear im putting in. ohh so your saying, dont twist the metal part, but the rubber hose end? im kinda glad they closed i was getting upset and i didnt wanna break something then really F--K myself. thanks for the tip, if anything else comes up tomorrow ill hit cha up. hows your comin along?
Map gas is basically propane in them little bottles. But its a tad hotter.
Since you already took the hose loose on the axle end. Thats why Im saying twist it, so your not taking the chance of twisting your metal line.
Mine is in and driving. I corrected my speedo today. Still working on adjusting my ebrake properly.
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Car: 91 RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
see, you are having the same problem I had.
I took some map gas to the joint, heated it tell it started to smoke, but not cherry red. Then vise-gripped one end, and 15mm the other end. Twist the hose end, not the tube end.
Then when its apart, keep soaking the hardline with wd40/etc. Mine finally came loose.
I took some map gas to the joint, heated it tell it started to smoke, but not cherry red. Then vise-gripped one end, and 15mm the other end. Twist the hose end, not the tube end.
Then when its apart, keep soaking the hardline with wd40/etc. Mine finally came loose.
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Car: 91 RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
Map gas is basically propane in them little bottles. But its a tad hotter.
Since you already took the hose loose on the axle end. Thats why Im saying twist it, so your not taking the chance of twisting your metal line.
Mine is in and driving. I corrected my speedo today. Still working on adjusting my ebrake properly.
Since you already took the hose loose on the axle end. Thats why Im saying twist it, so your not taking the chance of twisting your metal line.
Mine is in and driving. I corrected my speedo today. Still working on adjusting my ebrake properly.
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Car: 1987 IROC-Z
Engine: 383 with Edelbrock ProFlow EFI
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt 3.73 Eaton posi
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
Broke my rear end today... came home from autocrossing and it was making a howoling (sp?) noise. Got home and looked under the car to see differential fluid dripping to the ground. Since my rear is 2.73 limited slip drum brake rear I'm thinking I'll just swap it for a 3.23/3.42 disk rear with either posi or another LS unit. I have school and work tomorrow so I hope I can use my dad's truck and then we can get a rear end from the junkyard on tuesday. Is there anything specific to look for or avoid? Or should I just have my rear end rebuilt?
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Car: 80 SE/TTA;88 T/A GTA;86 T/A
Engine: 4.9L Turbo; LT1; empty
Transmission: TH350; T56; empty
Axle/Gears: 3:23 disk; 4:10 disk ; 3.42 disk
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
to original question like 10 posts ago, lol. I swapped an 88 open 3.08 to a 99 open 3.08 because i'm in need of this car for the summer and while yes, it would have been more simple to get exactly the rear i wanted now, i felt that not having to play with the speedo gears at this time would be simpler, and once i know that this car is going to be road worthy and worth investing into..then i will upgrade to 99+ 3.42 LSD unit from the Y87 equipped model V6's. Not to mention at the moment i'm a full time college student, i commute 60+ miles per day, and the gas prices of a V8?! forget about it. 3.08 is just like an automatic's 2.73, great for highway mileage. So at the moment it was also more suiting for me to stick with something that will still put a smile on my face while drving, will also put a half way smirk on my face at the pump, lol.
To another question above...i'm not positive about the torque arm...but your drive shaft and u-joint unit should bolt right into a 9-bolt. Like i said, i haven't a clue bout the torque arm, but i do know the lower control arms should bolt right in. To correct your speedo you will just need to change the speedo/VSS gear in your tranny.
To a couple questions above...as far as swapping the prop valve, i managed to find an 89+ for $30 shipped to my door by asking someone on the board, and i have it installed, and the brakes bled. Now if i wasn't stripping and polishing my wheels, and my car wasn't in pieces, i would gladly take her down the road and let you know how it is. I have read damn near all the articles about swapping in a 4th gen rear axle, and when swapping to disks they say that there are different pressures to the disc and drum setup. Thats why drums have thier own individual drum cylinders (to boost pressure back there i assume). Anyways, due to the drum cylinders the pressure being sent to the back is minimal, but with discs you have nothing but a piston to drive in the back, so the pressure from the prop valve is higher. They suggest 89+ due to the fact that in that model year...they switched to bigger rotors...i believe something like 11.5's give or take, i probably am wrong, so as you can probably picture trying to stop an 11.5" (LT1) or 12" (LS1) rear disc application, a prop vavle set for a 11.5" is a more suitable match. (this is all guestimation...so my numbers may be wrong, but this is just for demonstational purposes). I have read people getting by with the drum prop valve and then i've heard of people locking up the rear with the drum (figuring that more pressure is for the drum applications?!) This is why i'm so confused to the application, one place i read drums are less, the next i read they are more. If you are set on sticking with your drum prop vavle, i would suggest an adjustable prop valve for the rear just for minds sake that you can adjust, and even if you get a disc prop valve, you can sill have the peace of mind that you can adjust and tinker with your rear brakes.
You can try and rebuild all you want, but a 10 bolt will always be a 10 bolt. They are good for their basic purpose, but it's controversial about say autocrossing with one. There will people that will tell you how many 10 bolts they have blown up, and others that will swear by them. If you pick one up from the junk yard then it will only be a time bomb till it goes again racing around with it. My suggestion is that if your stuck with a 10 bolt and either can't afford/don't wanna switch to a 9bolt or something else...then i would suggest taking some of the steps to strengthen your 10 bolt given to you in the tech articles off of the home page. Welding the axle tubes, heavy duty gurdle (cover), ect. It may be cheaper and more reliable if you were to rebuild the rear axle that you have now if you havne't done any phyical damage, although i'm no professional so i would get the suggestion of others/a reputable shop. Otherwise look for an 89+ (really 90+) rear axle with the gears that you want. In mid 89 (thus the comment above) they switched to 28 spline axles instead of 26, which is rumored to be stronger. For your purposes this may be another step towards a better axle build.
Any other questions feel free to ask!
To another question above...i'm not positive about the torque arm...but your drive shaft and u-joint unit should bolt right into a 9-bolt. Like i said, i haven't a clue bout the torque arm, but i do know the lower control arms should bolt right in. To correct your speedo you will just need to change the speedo/VSS gear in your tranny.
To a couple questions above...as far as swapping the prop valve, i managed to find an 89+ for $30 shipped to my door by asking someone on the board, and i have it installed, and the brakes bled. Now if i wasn't stripping and polishing my wheels, and my car wasn't in pieces, i would gladly take her down the road and let you know how it is. I have read damn near all the articles about swapping in a 4th gen rear axle, and when swapping to disks they say that there are different pressures to the disc and drum setup. Thats why drums have thier own individual drum cylinders (to boost pressure back there i assume). Anyways, due to the drum cylinders the pressure being sent to the back is minimal, but with discs you have nothing but a piston to drive in the back, so the pressure from the prop valve is higher. They suggest 89+ due to the fact that in that model year...they switched to bigger rotors...i believe something like 11.5's give or take, i probably am wrong, so as you can probably picture trying to stop an 11.5" (LT1) or 12" (LS1) rear disc application, a prop vavle set for a 11.5" is a more suitable match. (this is all guestimation...so my numbers may be wrong, but this is just for demonstational purposes). I have read people getting by with the drum prop valve and then i've heard of people locking up the rear with the drum (figuring that more pressure is for the drum applications?!) This is why i'm so confused to the application, one place i read drums are less, the next i read they are more. If you are set on sticking with your drum prop vavle, i would suggest an adjustable prop valve for the rear just for minds sake that you can adjust, and even if you get a disc prop valve, you can sill have the peace of mind that you can adjust and tinker with your rear brakes.
You can try and rebuild all you want, but a 10 bolt will always be a 10 bolt. They are good for their basic purpose, but it's controversial about say autocrossing with one. There will people that will tell you how many 10 bolts they have blown up, and others that will swear by them. If you pick one up from the junk yard then it will only be a time bomb till it goes again racing around with it. My suggestion is that if your stuck with a 10 bolt and either can't afford/don't wanna switch to a 9bolt or something else...then i would suggest taking some of the steps to strengthen your 10 bolt given to you in the tech articles off of the home page. Welding the axle tubes, heavy duty gurdle (cover), ect. It may be cheaper and more reliable if you were to rebuild the rear axle that you have now if you havne't done any phyical damage, although i'm no professional so i would get the suggestion of others/a reputable shop. Otherwise look for an 89+ (really 90+) rear axle with the gears that you want. In mid 89 (thus the comment above) they switched to 28 spline axles instead of 26, which is rumored to be stronger. For your purposes this may be another step towards a better axle build.
Any other questions feel free to ask!
Last edited by 84redta; 04-20-2008 at 10:01 PM.
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Car: 91 RS
Engine: 350 TPI
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Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
Broke my rear end today... came home from autocrossing and it was making a howoling (sp?) noise. Got home and looked under the car to see differential fluid dripping to the ground. Since my rear is 2.73 limited slip drum brake rear I'm thinking I'll just swap it for a 3.23/3.42 disk rear with either posi or another LS unit. I have school and work tomorrow so I hope I can use my dad's truck and then we can get a rear end from the junkyard on tuesday. Is there anything specific to look for or avoid? Or should I just have my rear end rebuilt?
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
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Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Re: Complete rear end swappage!
samiam. Just lower the axle back down and vice grip them bolts out. Run a tap down the hole. Get a new DS-mount kit and put it back up.
Same color car too, with same rims. Just mines a vert.
Also looks like you have a pre-89 axle? Thats not how my calipers look.
I guess I should have took pics of the project. But I didnt feel like getting my greasy paws on my camera.
Depending upon the gears in your 2 axles. Yes you need to re-calibrate your speedo. Since mine is ran thru an OBD2 PCM, it was easy. Yours you will need to change the gear on the back of the VSS in the tranny (if changing gear ratios). Fairly simple.
Same color car too, with same rims. Just mines a vert.
Also looks like you have a pre-89 axle? Thats not how my calipers look.
I guess I should have took pics of the project. But I didnt feel like getting my greasy paws on my camera.
Depending upon the gears in your 2 axles. Yes you need to re-calibrate your speedo. Since mine is ran thru an OBD2 PCM, it was easy. Yours you will need to change the gear on the back of the VSS in the tranny (if changing gear ratios). Fairly simple.
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Car: 91 RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
samiam. Just lower the axle back down and vice grip them bolts out. Run a tap down the hole. Get a new DS-mount kit and put it back up.
Same color car too, with same rims. Just mines a vert.
Also looks like you have a pre-89 axle? Thats not how my calipers look.
I guess I should have took pics of the project. But I didnt feel like getting my greasy paws on my camera.
Depending upon the gears in your 2 axles. Yes you need to re-calibrate your speedo. Since mine is ran thru an OBD2 PCM, it was easy. Yours you will need to change the gear on the back of the VSS in the tranny (if changing gear ratios). Fairly simple.
Same color car too, with same rims. Just mines a vert.
Also looks like you have a pre-89 axle? Thats not how my calipers look.
I guess I should have took pics of the project. But I didnt feel like getting my greasy paws on my camera.
Depending upon the gears in your 2 axles. Yes you need to re-calibrate your speedo. Since mine is ran thru an OBD2 PCM, it was easy. Yours you will need to change the gear on the back of the VSS in the tranny (if changing gear ratios). Fairly simple.
#48
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
DS= drive shaft. They sell new kits for installing the driveshaft that comes with bolts and the c things.
Yes, I have the aluminum calipers. It came off a 92 formula. I never knew the calipers were one front, one rear on the steel ones.
For you to calibrate your speedo, assuming you changed gears. You have to take your VSS out of the transmission. And change the plastic gear behind it. For me, it was re-program my ecm due to how I wired it.
Yes, I have the aluminum calipers. It came off a 92 formula. I never knew the calipers were one front, one rear on the steel ones.
For you to calibrate your speedo, assuming you changed gears. You have to take your VSS out of the transmission. And change the plastic gear behind it. For me, it was re-program my ecm due to how I wired it.
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Car: 91 RS
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
well i thought i could just take the tip off the old one (the part that connects to the U joint) but i was wrong, theres a bolt on there but it wont come off. i tried to easy out it, drill it out you name it...i broke bits, got shavings all over me and got no where and had to mount the friggin axle back on and up by myself again, so it was all re work. im just going to have the other bracket welded on. screw it. its not like im ever gonna take that thing off, and if i do, its because im gonna replace it again. so its all good. ah your lucky you have alum calipers! well i dunno what advantage that has besides lesser weight. yea i was like, man i need to flip that side of the rotor, but then came to the conclusion that its just like that. yea, 82-88 are iron calipers. yes i changed gears. so change the plastic gear behind it? with another one? if so what kind to match up with the gears i have now? sounds like the VSS is a bit easier to do. so i got a new gasket, and fluid along with some special additive for the clutches inside cuz i found out today that i have a full posi not a LSD. so gasket swap tomorrow with new fluid, and ill be good to go, brake bleed also. aaand try to get those darn ebrake cables to fit. dale, did the ones that you ordered fit perfectly? mine will reach but just wont fit im going to try to fabricate something up. i put in the LCA's and LCARB's. all thats left is the new adjustable panhard bar and ill be set!
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
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Re: Complete rear end swappage!
Yea, my cables seemed to fit just fine, they were 6" longer then what was on it. I dunno if my cables will be the same as yours since you have the other style caliper. Might want to search on here.
Also search on which VSS setup you will need.
Also search on which VSS setup you will need.