white85transam

iTrader: (2)

just out of curiosity does anyone know what does it take to pull the wheels off the ground in a t/a? im not trying to do anything spectacular but it would be nice to do it a little.

AlkyIROC

Lots of torque and/or good weight transfer. Third gens are very nose heavy. The more weight you can remove from the front or transfer to the rear, the easier it will be.

white85transam

iTrader: (2)

i havent dynoed my 383 yet only 700 miles on it i will have 3:70's with a 26" tall tire will it be possible on motor and a t5 tranny?

Randy82WS7

i saw a third gen pull a wheelie on pinks before

i would assume it would take at least frame connectors and stiff rear springs and boxed arms and so on to do it

other than a really badass engine, trans and posi im sure,

and really good tires and smooth and not slick road surface

good luck

white85transam

iTrader: (2)

i havent done anything to the rear suspension not quite sure what to do but i do have ce frame connectors

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

If you have enough power to pull the front wheels off the ground, you'll break the T5 shortly.

white85transam

iTrader: (2)

im assuming i have a t5 all i know is its the original 5 speed from 85 what is a list of suggestions to pull this off?

AlkyIROC

I use a transbrake and launch at 4500 rpm. I only pull my wheels about 6" off the ground getting a 1.40 60' time.

I've also see 12 second cars with 1.7 second 60' times pull the wheels at least a foot off the ground.

There's a bit more than just gearing and weight transfer although those are the biggest factors. You need the traction. Properly tuned and set up suspension can really help. A typical automatic transmission launching off the foot brake will have problems but a transbrake can produce the same amount of shock as a high rpm clutch drop with a manual. Don't expect the T5 to last very long trying to do that.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Lets see.. I pull both front wheels about 3" to 4" for a few feet on launch in my 1988 camaro. I run 11.40's at 118 mph, with 1.60's 60' time. I also done broke 2 GM 7-5/8" 10 bolt rear ends in mine too even after I upgraded the OEM parts.

Here's my combo....

Engine..
355, scat 9000 crank, 10.18:1 compression, .040" quench height, 272/284* cam with 484"/.512" lift, 212 to 218 psi cyl pressure, 462 double hump heads, major port work done, manley stainless valves, 1.6 ratio roller rockers, RPM intake port matched and divider wall milled 2" x 1", 1" open carb spacer, 7 qt oil pan, windage screen, rear main oil baffle, lifter valley baffle. Hooker shorty headers, 2.25" true dual pipes, no cats, flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers

Transmission....
th-400, rebuilt with BW frictions, transgo reprograming kit, BM gov kit, 11" 2800 stall converter that flashs to 3200 rpm

Rear end...
7-5/8" 10 bolt, 3.42 gear, powertrax lock rite locker, yukon axles, TA alum support cover, redline shock proof gear oil, alum. brake drums

Chassis....
Sphon weld in sub frame conneters, S&W 10 point roll cage, homemade engine torque limiter (turnbuckle bolted to driver's side head and K mememer to keep engine from twisting too much)

Suspension...
Worn stock struts, worn v-6 front springs, New moog v-8 rear springs, drag bags, KYB AGX adjustable rear shocks, Spohn adjustable lower controll arms, Spohn weld on LCA brackets, spohn adjustable panhard rod, jegster adjustable saddle/trans tunnel mounted torque arm, stock rear sway bar

Wheels/Tires
1978 trans am WS6 alum snowflake 15" x 8" wheels all around
Nitto 555R 275/60-15 drag radails out back
Yoko avid ST 235/60-15 tires up front.

Body/weight removeal....
Hardwood 4" cowl hood fiberglass hood, pins on front, no front latch, replaced heavy carpet with lightweight speaker box type carpet, race/sport seats, removed the ECU and all of its wiring, and alot more little stuff was removed.

Weight of car with 16 gal of fuel 3425 lbs and thats with the 10 point roll cage, sfc, etc. Before the cage and sfc install I had it down to alittle over 3200 lbs

I footbrake the car to 2300 rpm, launch and shift at 6400 rpm

5678TA

i'm trying to get the nose of my TA in the air as well.. your t-5 will go out long before you come close.. or your rear end.. wheelies are ALL about traction and weight transfer.. you can pull a 1.5 60ft, but no weight transfer, no wheelie.. and vise versa.. theres alot of these threads floating around TGO.. heck, i even posted one.. look em up to save us from writing.. theres alot of other info in there as well

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

geez nightrider, you've done pretty well for the combo of parts in the car. I'm going to have to really get on tuning my setup and shoot for 11's too

white85transam

iTrader: (2)

how far do your 275's stick out on the rear of your car night rider? i am debating on what size radial to use because i dont wasnt stuff all over my car if the roads get wet but even with the 215's i get some on the back quarter behind the tire so i was thinkng either 235 or 255's but if it isnt that bad with 275's then i would go for that to get a better grip. some pics would be nice. i believe my t5 will go long before my 9 bolt 5678ta from what i hear they're pretty strong. and what should i try to launch at when i get ready to take this thing out for its first run?

i also just picked up a fiberglass ram air 2 hood for free so i got rid of the weight if the hood at least

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Sonix... Thanks man.. Yeah it's not the wildest, highest HP engine out there, but I took my time matching all the parts to work together. Modding as needed, and getting the chassis and suspension in tune. Taking the time to Dail in the engine really helped alot too. I knocked close to .75 seconds off my baseline ET by getting the timing and carb jetting just right.

White85transam... The 275/60's don't really stick out that much at all. Tucks up into the wheel well pretty nice IMO. I did have to do alittle hammer clearancing on the inside of wheel well nothing major though.

Here's some pics for you.... 8 pictures, The last 3 probbly show the tires the best.

1) a burnt off 255/60-15 next to my new Nitto 275/60
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1477...41290424kCYwpO

2) A side shot with the 275/60's on rear (before cowl hood)
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1477...41290424fKmMNb

3) A side shot from other side 275/60's on rear (before cowl hood)
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1477...41290424XXsOPe

4) An angled front/side shot with 275/60's and cowl hood
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1501...41290424VHqziY

5) Side shot
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1501...41290424xcxiuX

6) rear side shot at a club get together/bbq
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2817...41290424CAeTkq

7) rear side at same bbq (one of the best pics to show how far the 275/60's sticks out)
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2264...41290424EyXBNg

8) Heres a real good shot from the front/side that really shows the rear tire good.. Don't pay no mind to the rough looking hick standing next to car, its just me lol
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2699...41290424YrInoJ

5678TA

white85transam, you can try launching at 3000 rpm and go up from there in 500 rpm increments.. i launched my drag radials at 5k and 5500.. they spin like crazy but the 5500 launch netted me the best 60ft.. i'm going to DOT slicks after the DR's wear out.. when i get those, i'm gonna have to find my prime rpm again.. i've never run with plain street tires since 2004.. and when i did, i blew the stock rear(10bolt).. been either off the track, on 8.5 slicks, or drag radials ever since..

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Whoa, I think i've seen you on america's most wanted

That's a sexy car alright, I love the stance.
Those wheels look even better on a camaro;
My car;
https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~jmknopp...t,%20may06.jpg

Seriously though, your combo isn't much more aggressive than mine, ported stock heads, slightly bigger cam (just barely), performer RPM intake, 1.6 rockers, shorty headers... My car is pretty slow though, I guess I desperately need to do some tuning.

Shagwell

1.6X 60fts from me on 17's with 315/35 nitto dr's. - I launch around 5k, pull the front slightly. I never had issues in low gear with any of my T5's, but 3rd didn't like to hang around long. My built 7.5 10-bolt has taken it so far with a very heavy vert, but with the new chassis I'll be running an 8.8 rear(yes, I'm getting scared of my 10-bolt).

If you have enough traction and power, you will go up. Just remember, an underpowered car goes up, a properly powered car goes forward. - It's easier to lift the nose of the car than to move the whole thing. Up is wasted energy. You want it to come up just enough to transfer enough weight to maintain traction, then go forward. - this mostly pertains to strip only cars....

white85transam

iTrader: (2)

ok so now ive decided to go with the larger sets of tires i was looking at and now have a final question to have answered before i decide, which is how much difference in performance would i see between a 27" tall tire and a 28" tire? and is it worth banging on my car to make it fit like night rider 327 said he did? oh and by the way these will be going on my stock 15" t/a rims which i believe are 7.5" wide if i am wrong someone please correct me.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Those would be 15x7's. You can go as wide as 275/60/R15, but that's about it.

white85transam

iTrader: (2)

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Sonix.... Nice looking car there man.. I think I said it to you in another post awhile back, but your the only other person I have seen running the second gen TA snowflake wheels on a third gen..

They look killer on the third gens.

Thanks man.. I put alot of time and money into my car.. Means alot to me when people say stuff like that about it.

Our engines does look pretty close parts wise..

Here's a few more little things I didnt list on mine..
All alum underdrive pullys. 5.5" 2 groove crank, 6.6" 1 groove water pump, (forgot size of PS and alt pulleys. I'm not at home so I cant look at my sheet to see but I know I went with larger than stock to underdrive it more)

I ended up having to use a CS-130 alt. just to get a good charge at idle speed.

I started with a low flow 35 gph elec fuel pump in rear as a helper pump along with a replacement for 70 LT1 camaro mech pump.. Return line, all 3/8" alum supply line.. Once I got her dailed in.. I started out running the fuel pump. My pressure was down from 5.25 psi to around 2 psi on the top end.. So I kept the elec helper pump and went with a carter 172 gph mech pump and a crane light weight fuel pump pushrod.

The oiling system has a good bit to do with it. The parts I used stopped alot of windage and thats good for 20-30 HP. 7 qt pan ( I only run 5 qt. in pan and 1/2 qt in filter), windage screen, rear main oil baffle, lifter valley baffle.

Also I went with the scat 9000 crank.. It's 5 lbs lighter than a GM cast crank, plus the counter weights are knife edeged.

1.25" OD 125# as installed valve springs (which is alittle stronger than needed for my .484"/.512" lift but it helps engine to spin up faster and keeps valves from floating)

I found my best total timing at 34* @ 3000 rpm. Too much cyl pressure to run any higher than that with pump fuel.

Theres probbly alot more little things I'm forgetting lol.


White85transam.....

let me clear up the tire fitment alittle better.. I didnt have to beat up my car..

Say your looking at your pass. rear wheel well without a wheel there. If you look to the left, my 275/60's was rubbing one spot there.. It would only rub though when I launched at the front wheels came up some. So the spot where the undercoating I sprayed in the wheel well was rubbed off, I tapped in with a hammer.. No more rub there

Ok and if you look straight into the wheel well you will see overlapping sheet metal.. The seams of that overlap was rubbing slighly cause the seam wasnt flat.. I just hammered the seam so it was flat and never had any more tire rub..

Both sides, pass and driver rubbed in the same places so I done the same minor hammering to both..

BTW....On a 7" wide wheel I WOULD NOT run a 275/60.. Yes people has done it many times but I won't take that risk with my life, or car.. IMO 255/60 is the biggest to run on a 7" wheel..

white85transam

iTrader: (2)

i suppose it will 255/60/15's then if it is that much of a risk. what could happen with 275's? also how much of a difference is there between a 27" tall tire and a 28". i dont think it would be that much if anybody can say otherwise im open for the info.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

White85transam.... What happens is when you put a tire that wide on a wheel thats not wide enough, the side wall of tire buldges out.. With that, theres a risk of the tire coming off of the rim. Also when you strecth a tire onto a rim like that you end up with a tread pattern that's not as wide as it should be on the right sided rim for tire and thats less rubber touching road so less traction

Picking the right tire height is pretty detailed.. 1 inch in tire height changes your over all gear ratio by .06.. Gears are rated with 26" tires, so your 3.27 gear and 27" tires would make your rear gear seem like a 3.21, and with 28" tires like a 3.15.

The taller tire will hook better cause of the added sidewall height, but you have to look at the cons..

A taller tires is more mass to turn. Does your engine have the torque to turn a 28" tire w/o slowing it down..

Then the whole overall gear ratio thing I mentioned.. Not only will the taller tire make your gear seem not as low, but that also means you won't be turning as many RPMs.. Will your engine fall out of it's power band with the taller tire, or not reach it's peak torque and HP rpm during a pass now due to the lower rpm?

Shagwell

A taller tire also has more roll out, thus a larger contact patch in the first place. The larger sidewall allows for more squat, thus increasing the contact patch even more. - but, as stated, it also raises your gear ratio, thus requiring lower gears to keep the engine in its power band.

flashbackrvn

Could you give us a hint as to what it takes to make a basically stock 350 run 11.40, if this is a secret i can understand because anyone capable of doing this could become a rich man. Maybe I haven't read enough on this board , maybe a lot of 3rd gen cars do it. How many here can run lower 11's with a 355 engine?

5678TA

you should fix the quote.. its kinda hard to find where to start reading.. finish the quote with [/QUOTE]

EDIT: theres not a whole lot of 355's runnin low 11's on this board.. most people just move up to the 383..

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, i've been trying to decode Nightriders secret for a while. Double hump heads and a medium (not mild, not quite race) cam. All the little tricks are done, but man - I wouldn't think they'd add up to that much.

I wonder what the chassis dyno would show? I mean, 11.40 is nothing to sneeze at, especially with a bit of a wheelie - but perhaps most of that is in suspension? 118mph though...

5678TA

118mph is freakin fast.. i hit 111 once on a 12.9 run.. haha but i have to say, camel back heads are pretty powerful when ported and matched to a good cam.. i coulda ran faster with my 383 when it had camel backs and a smaller cam..

Shagwell

118 is a low MPH for an 11.40 et. His 60fts are the major player here. My 355 runs 11's on 17" wheels, but I've got much more done than him, not quite as good of 60ft, and I'm trapping over 120. Weight reduction may also be a key player for him. My car is heavy, but it 60fts well, and has some go-nads, hence the 1.66 60fts but still over 120mph. Orlando time slips show over 130, but mph seems to run high there.....

LB9GTA

iTrader: (1)

I pulled the drivers tire off the ground on a 1.59 60ft.
That is with a stock gm 10bolt(only a rear diff cover and welded axle tubes)

Sig is below for stats on my car.

Race weight with me in it is 3650 lbs.

plumminfool

I lift both tires with a stock t5, a 9 inch with 4.11 gears and a 355. Launching at 4k with 28x9 M/T et drags. Lots of weight off the front.