Hello, I'm not that experienced in the specifics of transmissions only how to R&R. Anyway, I have a muncie 4 speed from a 68 chevelle i'm putting in my 91 firebird. I would really like to use a hydraulic system seeing how its been hell trying to locate the clutch pedal assembly that is mechanical. I'd rather go with a Hydraulic system. Can anyone give me instructions or a way this setup would work. I 've searched and found out others are using a hydraulic setup but no one is listing how they accomplished this. Also, what are the pro's and con's of a muncie set up? Thanks everyone. Jon

 

The stock hydraulic setup for these cars rotates the transmission about 18° toward the driver. So there's no way to use that with a trans from some other application.

Only way is to get one of the Weir ones or similar, where the slave cyl is part of the throwout bearing.

You'll probably also have trouble coming up with a shifter that would fit the car and put the handle in the right place without butchering the tunnel. There was never a Muncie in one of these cars, so there's no shifter "install kit" that is made for them. There might be something that would work without requiring too much sodomy, but you'd be sort of on your own there.

Pros = a tougher trans than a T-5 or a Saginaw

Cons = relatively difficult to install cleanly in a car with a full stock interior, not near as strong as a later model T-10 or a T-56, only 4 gears (no OD), relatively close ratio requires a high-numbered rear gear (you'll be disappointed with a 3.42 or lower), no torque arm provisions

IMO not worth it. If you're going to go to all that trouble and expense, you'd be smarter to use some other model of transmission. Even if the trans is "free", you're oging to have a bunch of money tied up in fiddling around with stuff getting it to install.

 

you can use a lakewood blowproof bellhousing for an F-body, it's got the 'straight-up' pattern for a classic 4 speed, and the bracket for the hydraulic clutch. So you would need the trans, a normal v-8 f-body clutch(T-5, stock setup), the hydraulic throw-out master/slave assembly, clutch fork (this will be the hardest part to find, its different than the usual), the clutch pedal, and hardware. then you will probably need to install the kit that someone makes (B&M?) for a TH350 in an F-body for your torque arm mount, and hopefully, that clears the shifter linkage. I beleive that also accounts for the trans crossmember.

as sofa said, the shifter linkage and location in the cabin will require some work. It probably will end up close, but the console may or may not work. I beleive if you could find an early car (even if the pedals and mechanical linkage is missing), you can use that as a reference, since the saginaw shifter ends up roughly in the same spot as a muncie. It might even have the necessary torque arm parts, but I have no idea how the early cars worked that out (saginaw/torque arm).

the pros and cons are pretty much what sofa said.

 

is it possible / easy then, to swap a factory mechanical T-10 to a hydraulic setup?
I have a funny feeling i'll be getting tired of that, when i'm walking around with a popeye-esque left leg, and normal right leg...

 

I don't see why not, in your case, you would need the same lakewood bellhousing, I think. I don't believe the T10 was ever available with a hydraulic set-up, so no factory bellhousing exists (not to make it more complicated, but there MIGHT be a corvette bellhousing that would work). Beyond that, it's all stock f-body parts, 85 and up?, the only gotcha with your set-up is I don't know if the pushrod hole is in the exact place that the clutch master cylinder would be, so you need to just make sure it ends up in the right place, which could take some drilling and filing of the hole.

now, since you have replied here, you can give up some info, since you have one. what did the T10 cars use for a torque arm mount? I've never seen one. Does it bolt to the trans tailshaft, or is it part of the crossmember? What does the shifter and console look like?

 

it's your lucky day, air adam was havin a hell of a time retrofitting a T-10 into his car, and I took a schwack of pictures for him...

here's my webspace
https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~jmknopp/public_html/

here's a directory with some SUPER HIGH RES pictures:
https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~jmknopp.../torque%20arm/

I gave you the main folder link in case I had some useful pics that weren't in that directory.

I think it's the same setup as all other 3rd gens, torque arm on the trans, same deal. My shifter is a hurst super competition. My console looks pretty ordinary.

 

very cool, I had never seen that 4 speed bracket before. thanks!

So, Jweast, there ya go. That's the other parts you would need to hook up the torque arm. Here is one problem however, since a muncie was never installed into the car, it might not have the same bolt hole mounts, so you are looking at fabricating some parts, or using a torque arm that doesn't bolt to the trans, but rather the crossmember.

so it really boils down to how much you want to do this, and how good you are at sourcing/fabricating parts.

So, after all that, on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is changing the oil, and 10 is machining your own parts you design, this is probably close to an 8 or so. A lift would help out a ton, and it might not be too cheap, depnding on availability of some of these parts.

 

Yes, that Lakewood bellhousing is the only way to retrofit a 4-spd with a hydraulic clutch linkage. I've looked into this quite a bit, and its really the only way to do it.

It appears to be set up exactly like the bellhousing for the T5's that got a hydraulic linkage, but has the angled trans bolt pattern for the T5 as well as the straight up pattern for a 4-spd (T10, muncie, whatever).

BTW - Thanks again Sonix, couldn't have done it without ya