Air_Adam

I'm curious... What are the differences between a bellhousing for a V8 T5 with a mechanical clutch linkage, and a V8 T5 with a hydraulic clutch linkage?

Basically what I want to know, is if you can 'retro-fit' a hydraulic linkage to an older bellhousing. I don't mind a bit of fabrication BTW.

I'm more interested in mounting it on my T10 bellhousing though, which I would think isn't too much different than the mech linkage T5 bellhousing, aside from the tilted trans mount holes?

I've had the Z-bar system split on me too many times since I got the car, and I'll need to use a heavier clutch this year and I know the problem will just get worse. This is why I want to change to a hydraulic linkage for my 4-spd.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Here's what a hydraulic bell housing has on it.

Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to duplicate, with a bracket that bolted to a couple of the BH-to-engine bolts, and maybe a brace going back to one of the trans-to-BH bolts.

Air_Adam

That little loop? Thats not so bad... forgot to ask, is the clutch fork different?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure, but I think the forks are the same.

Don't forget, that "little loop" has about 1000 lbs of force applied to it when you push the pedal. That's why it has all that bracing.

Ricktpi

GM did not use a mechanical type linkage with the T5. I tried the mechanical linkage fork & bell with the T5 hydraulics after welding up a bracket. It did not provide enough travel to disengage the clutch. I believe on the T5, the pivot ball is farther away from the input shaft of the trans, giving the bearing end of the fork more travel. BTW, I ended up using a McLeod hyd TO bearing for my TKO swap.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yes GM DID use a mechanical linkage with the T-5, in 83. I know, because I used to have one. Still have the bell housing laying around somewhere.

The hydraulic slave cyl moves the fork about 5/8". Measure the movement of your mechaincal linkage. If the fork has about 5/8" of travel in normal operation, then hydraulics will work, using that fork.

Ricktpi

You must have the only one then. GM lists NO parts for that setup in their catalog.

5/8" travel won't cut it with a mechanical fork, needs more like 1". Been there, done that.

jwscab

yes, they made mechanical linkage, extremely hard to find now. I beleive 1982-1984. The clutch fork is a unique item to that bellhousing, and the lever ratio is different (ball is in a different place) for these bellhousings. I do not know if there is a difference in fork between the mechanical and hydraulic linkages, I would have to search around, but there are pictures around somewhere I've seen before.

the best thing to do, as much as it sucks to put out cash, is to get a lakewood blowproof housing for a 3rd gen f-body. It has the bracket welded on, plus the flange holes for both straight up and 15 degrees trans'.

I don't know if I'd trust a bolted on bracket or welded aluminum bracket to the cast housing, becuase there isn't much room to work with to make it strong enough over time.

I suppose if you made a right angle bracket out of 1/4"plate, and recessed the flange behind the two bellhousing bolts on that side(milled out 1/4"), you could make a beefy enough bracket. That would be somewhat involved.

Ricktpi

GM did use a BW 5spd with mechanical linkage in 83, except it was behind a 60 degree V-6 & as we all know that bell will not fit a 90 degree V-8.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No, they put the T-5 with mechanical linkage behind a V8 too.

The car in question was an HO car; 83 Z28 HO.

I've seen the same setup in LG4 cars.

Just because GM doesn't list it in their parts catalog NOW, 20 YEARS after the fact, doesn't mean tha tthey didn't make them.

Some of us around here have our knowledge of things past from other ways besides looking in books. WE WERE THERE at the time.

I might even still have the fork laying around. I doubt it, but I might. I threw all the mechanical linkage away after I swapped hydraulic into the car, because I hated the mech stuff so bad. One of the best mods I ever did to that car. I didn't miss the mech linkage crap one bit after the swap.

Ricktpi

So was I Sofa. I worked a Chevy dealer (Penske Chevrolet) that specialized in Camaros & Corvettes from 1980 to 1985. I even bought one of the first NEW 82 Z-28's we got in that had a the M26 4 speed. All the 83 L69 cars we got in had HYDRAULIC clutches, I know cause we would go all over them when they came off the car carriers.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

adam, if you make a hydraulic setup on your t10, be sure to take some pictures or something. I might be interested in that later.
I don't really have a problem with my mechanical linkage setup so far, I've heard I may run into some problems with a higher output engine though.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The hydraulic clutch was introduced in 84.

No "features from the future" in 83 model cars.

The 83s had linkage.

I'll see if I can dig up the BH and snap a pic.

jwscab

yeah, I have mechanical clutch parts, and I've seen an untouched unit in the junkyard. They most certainly exist, and were available. My buddy also bought the stuff for his drag car. I'd snap pictures, but the bellhousing is in a car right now, in the weeds. there are plenty of pictures of this on the internet as well.

Ricktpi

Did a little research (called a mechanic friend I used to work with) He says the hydraulic T5 was introduced late in the 83 model year & some of the early 83 had mechanical, so I stand corrected. There can't be many out there since in 82 they where all 4 spds.

Air_Adam

Yes, the '83 V8 T5 did have a mechanical linkage. I know because I keep breaking its parts and having to fix or replace them

Ok, so I think I could make that brace if I could get a hold of a few of the tools at work.

Now, one of you said the hydraulic system will only move the fork 5/8" or so? Where is that measured from, so I can check to see if its similar with my mechanical setup? The tip of the rod that mates up to the socket on the fork I'm guessing?

If the hydraulic system, for whatever reason, cannot be 'retro-fitted' to my T10, is there any way to beef up the mechanical linkage to stand up better? Like, I'm thinking weld some 1/4" steel to either side of both levers... would this help?

gregf

Hey i have a 83 berly, w/ a v8 t5 mechanical linkage, and i had to buy the pivot ball that screws into the block, from the factory. I very much like the linkage setup. Like anything else that is 20+ yrs old. You have to make extra sure everything is perfect. This car is my daily driver w/ a 400ci motor.

greg

xplane

um it shurely cant be that expensive for a V8 t5 bellhousing? shurely not any more than buying the stuff then the time and then you still would have the problem of a 90% chance that its not perfect or strong enough.

Air_Adam

I'm not trying to mount a hydraulic setup on my 5-spd, but on my 4-spd... which uses a totally different bellhousing from the 5-spd.

Does anyone have pics of the slave mounted to the bellhousing?

xplane

oh i didnt catch that. sorry.

Air_Adam

When I got my 4-spd setup, I was sent a steel flywheel as well. But I have an aluminum flywheel on the car now (from my 5.0 HO).

Are these two flywheels interchangable? Can I use the aluminum flywheel with the T10?

Also - from my previous to previous post - would it help the strength of the Z-bar to beef up the levers by welding some extra 1/4" steel to either side of the levers? Or anything else I can do to make the Z-bar stronger?

The one in the car now is starting to split again, but the one that came with the T10 parts is still in good shape. Can this one be strengthened?

jwscab

yes, you can reinforce the z-bar. Guys usually take some strap, say 3/4" wide, maybe 3/16" thick or so, and weld small gussets if you will from the tube to each lever, basically, triangulating the lever and tube. its not really for strength in the way the triangle is created, but makes the whole assembly stronger anyway due to another weldment to the tube and lever, basically doubling the lever. The length of that gusset is up to you, the longer the better, as long as it doesn't interfere with the rods' motion.

if you do some searching on G-body transmission swaps, alot of them used T-5's, and posted some useful pictures of the hydraulic clutch.

Air_Adam

Well, for now, me and my cousin rebuilt the whole mechanical linkage tonight. The levers on the bar are now 1/2" thick solid steel with very good TIG welding done by my boss at work. Also, all the rods and holes were worn out, so instead of that the linkage now uses some heavy duty rod ends (heim joints) to tie it all together. Its all much stronger now and its smooth as butter

I'll still be checking out ways to mount a hydraulic linkage to a factory bellhousing though. I'll let you all know if I come up with something good.