VILeninDM

Hey guys,

I am about to tackle this and curious how bad it is going to be. I have 50 some page T56 rebuild manual, but I am curious if there other references/materials I can read that would help.

I am planning to give D&D a call tomorrow and buy the two rebuild kits (synchros and bearings) from them as well as steel 3-4 fork. Anything else I should do to it while everything is on the table?

As far as tools, what's expected here? So far I have gear pullers, bearing splitters, shop press.

as always, any help will be greatly appreciated

VILeninDM

anyone?

884+3

Its been a while since i worked on a 6 speed internals but just make sure you dont take your syncronizer assemblies apart before you have them clearly marked so you get them put back in the same position. Your going to need a couple snap ring pliers and seal removers and installers. a brass dead blow hammer and brass drift pin might come in handy.A magnet of some sort is good for picking up needle bearings.

TheGreatJ

Which manual do you have? If you want a .pdf copy of the GM service manual for a T56 email me and I'll send it to you.

Rebuilding a T56 isn't too bad if you're mechanically inclined, just make sure you have a table that's plenty big and keep all the parts in order. Also make sure everything is CLEAN when you put it together. I helps to build a stand so you can set it up on end, input shaft down, when taking it apart and putting it back together. It's much easier that way.

You'll need some Torx bits for a couple of things, like the shift rail guide bolts and the reverse idler bracket bolts. You'll also need something to punch out the rollpins in the shift rails. Snap ring pliers are a MUST, and you'll need a few different sizes. Get some Knipex 45 10 170's if you can find them....you'll thank yourself later.

You'll need shims...D&D doesn't carry them. You can order single shims from Dal, and there's one tranny place online that sells shim kits for like $60 but I can't remember the website.

There may be other things but I'm limited for time. I've done this twice now, and once recently (putting the trans back in tonight as a matter of fact) so if you have any questions, ask!

pasky

http://shbox.com/1/t56_service_manual.pdf

VILeninDM

D&D rocks, made an order on 2/16, wed, had everything on my desk at work by friday afternoon.

For tables, I have 2 5-ft work benches. I was thinking of drilling a hole in one of them so that I could keep the tranny standing up. Good thing is that this is my project car which will not see any driving for a few years, so I can take all the time I need with this.

Rollpins.. I've seen one before and it won. What's the proper way to punch them out and drive them in? Should I buy a set of rollpin punches because regular ones didn't work too well that last time?

Snapring pliers... when you say few different sizes, what sizes should I get? I went to www.handsontools.com, which I found so far to be a pretty good place for tools you will not find locally and they have 3 pages of snap ring pliers, but I am not sure what I need here. Can you guys point to the right ones?
I found the single US distributor for knipex (according to their site), they are not open till monday, but I sent them a e-mail regarding 170's

J, who is Dal and where do I find him? You also mentioned you may have more info, so anything you can think of at any time, please, post.

Also, it appears you need some really long pullers. You guys have any ideas there before I have to invent something? Actually I was thinking of using bearing splitter and buying longer bolts for the bolt-type puller.. would that work?

TheGreatJ

Any flat-tipped punch will get them out, just make sure you use the right size punch (otherwise it'll tear up the pins.) A selection is a good thing to have, although I THINK these are all about 1/8" diameter.

You would be best off with one of the sets like the OTC4512 that has different sizes, but if you don't want to spend that kinda cash you could get by with the KDT1715 I think.

Those Lisle 44900's are close enough to the Knipex 170 to work, although I like the design of the Knipex's better.

Dal Slabaugh, VanDevere Olds in Ohio. He's a good guy and he can get you factory parts at about 10% over cost plus shipping. His number is 877-448-5451.

That's exactly what I did....works very well. Well, not exactly...I used long pieces of all-thread and a couple of nuts....that way I can adjust the length at the puller end and don't have to buy 14 sets of bolts in different lengths.

TheGreatJ

Oh, and Pasky's link is the manual I have. It's a pretty good info source.

VILeninDM

Thanks J,

Looks like I'll be buying some tools tomorrow. That OTC set looks good and I already have a very good opinion of that company, so 40 bucks or so difference is not really an issue. I figure you buy good tools, you buy them for life.

About that endplay tool whose spec is at the end of the manual. It appears you have to make it yourself. I was hoping to find someone who has one, or can make one and buy it off of them. My second option is to find someone at the school I went to who has access to a machine shop. Where did you get it?

and yeah, that Pasky's link is the manual I refered to in the original post.

TheGreatJ

I kinda BS'd that one. I used a long piece of allthread, a spacer that was roughly the size of the "fat" part of the tool in the diagram, and 2 nuts tightened against each other. It worked out fairly well, I think.

I almost forgot something very important.....you'll need a dial indicator and an adjustable base to check your bearing clearances. I've been told that T56's are picky about bearing clearances, so follow the manual procedure exactly.

Also don't run synthetic fluid. I just got my car back together Saturday and put synth. in it and it's actually made it harder to shift. I guess the synchros aren't creating quite enough friction with the synthetic fluid. It makes me sick to think that I'm probably gonna have to drain $32 worth of Amsoil synthetic fluid out so I can put regular ATF back in it.

TKOPerformance

Don't pay too much attention to those super long pullers they use in the service manual. I didn't use a single one, and don't tend to in general. You can buy a 12-ton shop press from Harbor freight for less than $200, add a set of clamshells for another $20 and you're all set. I bet one of those pullers alone costs more than that, and won't be nearly as useful. Another option that I've used in the past when I was younger and poorer was a set of brass punches. It takes a lot more time, but you can get the same results. I rebuilt transmissions, rears, and t-cases this way for years and never had one come back. If you get a blind bearing that you can't get behind with a punch you can cut it apart and grind a slit in the inner race very close to all the way through, but be careful not to go through. Then stick a cold chisel in the cut and smack it with a hammer. The hardened race will crack and slide right off. Wear heavy gloves and eye prtection though. I once took a piece of shrapnel to the hand that took 3 months to come out doing this. A shop press is a good investment if you work on cars. If you had to pay someone to do presswork for you you'd pay for the press on the first trasn or rear you rebuilt. Plus, then you can do pressed on axel bearings, balljoints, and a host of other things.

Other tools you'll need are a set of metric sockets, a torque wrench, a set of Torx bits, inside snap ring pliers, outside snap ring pliers, a small punch set, and a small hammer. A seal puller comes in handy, as does a stand or bench vise to set the trans in so you can work on it standing on the input shaft.

The T56 is really a joy to work on once you find your way around them. The modular case design makes it a lot easier to dissasemble and assemble than any other trans I've ever worked on. Very little ever wears out in them either. All the speed gears have caged needle bearings, and all the heavy bearings are tapered rollers. It's easy to see why the T56 is so strong, though it is condierably more complicated than other transmissions, and uses many more parts.

The bearing clearances are critical on the T56 because it runs in ATF. Too tight and they gall all to hell, too loose and they burn up. I had the countershaft extension endplay tool made for me by a local machine shop for $60 using the blueprint in the back of the Tremec manual. I also made a steel plate that bolts to two of the bellhousing holes and allows me to mount my dial indicator's magnetic base so that I can measure endplay on the countershaft and countershaft extension. This needs to be done very accurately as the clearances are only a few thousands. Using Timken bearings I've never had to add or remove shims to get the right clearance, but with a trans as expensive as a T56 I never take chances.

I've run synthetic (specifically Amsoil) ATF in my T56 since it was rebuilt and never had any problem with it. The shifts are smooth and effortless. I would think about your clutch if high shift effort is a problem. You aren't using a Centerforce Dual Friction are you?

A lot of people are under a misconception of how synchronizers work. Synchronizers don't need friction any more than any other part of the transmision does. I think people believe that because the new transmissions designed to run in ATF use a clutch like material inside the cone of the synchronizer ring. This isn't like a clutch disc on a car. This material is just to retain oil, which allows the synchro to float on a cushion of oil, much like how a crankshaft journal floats on the cushion of oil on a main bearing. This reduces wear on the gear and synchro, and also makes the trans shift more smoothly than a trans that runs in gear oil because the fluid isn't as viscous and hard to shear.

All a synchronizer does is couple and uncouple speed gears from the input shaft to the output shaft. It manages this even though the two shafts are spinning at different speeds, because the teeth on the synchro and the engagement teeth on the speed gear are small and beveled. These teeth engage the slots in the sliding sleeve, which allow one speed gear to be uncoupled as another is being coupled. The synchro ring cuts down on the speed mismatch enough to allow the engagement teeth on the speed gear to slip into the sliding sleeve, allowing you to couple the next gear. If the synchro were to slow down because of friction it wouldn't work as well. I've noticed that older transmissions that run in gear oil couple slower than newer boxes that use ATF. I've surmised that this is because the gear oil slows down the synchro ring, because it is thicker and tougher to shear than ATF. Consequently super slick synthetic ATF should work even better than regular ATF. It is also sticky and clings to parts better, so the added protection also makes me feel better.

VILeninDM

wow, that's a lot of stuff, thanks TKO.

I agree with you, shop press is an awesome toy.. I mean investment. I just rebuilt my 10-bolt so I already have a lot of this stuff like bearing splitters and dial indicator with base. HF doesn't impress me for a lot of things they sell, but I have their press, and I still don't know if they did manage to screw up an upside-down jack inside a steel frame. So far it worked beautifully and for $170 20-ton press (12-ton was like $99) you can't go wrong.

60 bucks for the tool sounds like a very decent deal. With shipping that's roughly how much I was expecting to pay if I found someone online willing to sell their's

TKOPerformance

HF is good for what it is. The stuff's made in China or Taiwan, and the quality isn't excellent, but for the home shop or weekend gearhead the stuff works well. I've gotten my milage out of my 12 ton press. I picked up a 1,000 lb trans jack for $200. My wife got me a blast cabinet for $200 (on sale, down from $300), and I got a parts washer for $100. If I was a professionla shop that ran 5 days a week, 8 hours a day I'd probably buy my stuff through a place that deals with stuff like that and pay considerably more for it. I'd also finance it. HF has allowed me to increase my productivity and the quality of my work dramatically without mortgaging my house a 2nd time!

VILeninDM

Fully agree with you. I got the press, the same blasting cabinet, can't go wrong with their hammers, welder, $100 roofing nailer which paid for itself in 2 days, and ton of other stuff.

At same time quality of <some> things is a little disappointing. With bearing splitters, I destroyed the thread on second use. Now I have OTC splitters and they are awesome compared to those.

And watch out for those pullers. I drove my fist into a concrete floor and almost put out friend's eye a while back when one of those disintegrated under pressure.

5.0Camaro

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=1877
there ya go. Hope that helps.

TKOPerformance

There are a lot of good pictures there. I would still invest $15 in the Tremec service manual, as it has all of the exploded views, and if you need to order any parts not foudn in the rebuild kit you can just call D&D and say I ned part #31 in teh book and they'll know exactly what you mean.

That puller looks nice and cheap. The funny thing is that the gear they are removing (5th/6th mainshaft gear) isn't pressed on the the mainshaft. I've never had any difficulty removing one. It's splined inside and rides on the shaft. An external snap ring secures it in place. Looks like a waste of about $100 to me.

VILeninDM

thanks guys for all the great input. 5.0, that was a very sweet link.

TKO, is there a different manual than the one we all downloaded for free (pasky's link)? As far as I knew there was only one official manual. If that is not the case, I will definitely go and by as much reading material as possible

TKOPerformance

I tried the link, but it didn't work. If it's the Tremec manual, which I bet it is, because I heard that they are all available now in pdf format, then that's the one to have. There may be additional information in the GM service manual for the LT1 4th gen cars, but I figure Tremec designed and manufactured the trans who knows how to service it better than they do?

I actually bought mine in hardcopy before they were available online. I've got their T5 book too. I found them very intelligently laid out, easy to understand, and the pictures are very helpful, particularly the parts reference section with the exploded views.

The trick is to go through the manual and see if anything strikes you as hard, complicated, or difficult to understand. Then try to get the answers to those questions before you even start taking anything apart.

VILeninDM

Ok guys. I got the tools today (along with a new 600 ft-lbs IR impact gun ) and successfully disassembled the entire tranny.

Now I have a few questions:
1) I didn't find any magnets inside the case, which I though was weird. Is this were they are supposed to be:


2) Outer bearing race of the input shaft seams to be freely spinning inside adapter plate. Is this normal? Usually races are pressed in rather tight.


3) What's the best way to clean everything? Should I stay away from paper towels? Is brake cleaner spray along with compressed air a good idea?

4) What can I do about the shift lock sulenoid? I was thinking of not putting in the shift lock lever during reassembly so that thing would never be in the way. Would this work?

I think that's all I have for now. Time to get some sleep.

TKOPerformance

1.) Yes, there should be two round magnets in that area.
2.)I know it seems strange, but that is normal. Since it's blind there would be no way to press it out if it was press fit. There are also shims behind it.
3.) Parts washer is my favorite. Brake clean & compressed air is a great method too. Avoid paper towles or rags. Keep the lint out of the trans.
4.) Buy a drain plug with M22x1.5 and a flat sealing washer. Use that instead of the solenoid and don't intall the lever. Skip shift goodbye.

VILeninDM

thanks for the info, TKO.

Now I have another set of questions for you guys

1) I am still unsure about the cleaning procedures. It seems I need to use a towel or a rag at some point, otherwise solvent just moves things around, but in the end most of the crap remains on the surface. Or am I allowed to use paper towels for cleaning, just not for drying?

I am also still not clear how something that is made of metal and can continuously handle 450 ft-lbs can be hurt by tiny particles of paper. But I still want to be as correct as possible about this thing.

2) I bought full synchro, bearing and snap ring kits from D&D and was going to replace everything I could. But I noticed the manual in bold letters states not to remove most bearings if they don't look worn. Should I leave original bearing on their, or replace them since I already have new ones?

3) If I do change bearings, should I also change corresponding outer races even if the ones in there look fine? I am assuming the answer to this question is yes because rollers will have a wear pattern and new rollers would probably not like rolling on old race. Is there a trick to hammering out those races? In the 10-bolt there were notches on the back that made enough room for a punch, but here some races have barely any surface area to grip on.

4) In the synchro kit, there were 9 keys: 6 short ones and 3 longer ones. Shouldn't there be 3 more keys for a total of 12 since there are 4 synchro assemblies in this thing? I'll probably call D&D about this one tomorrow.

5) What's transmission assembly lube? Is this some kind of special grease or can I dip things in Dextron III ATF I bought? For now I have one can so I can dip bearing and such.

Speaking of oil, should I use synthetic right away, or break in bearings with regular oil and then switch to synthetic? This was recomendation for rear end and engines, but I never heard for or against this regarding trannys.

6) Manual said to mark synchro assemblies before removing them so orientation can be preserved when they are put back in. What orientation are they talking about? Which side facing front of the tranny? How important is that since synchro's look identical on both sides?

TKOPerformance

No problem, here's answers to your new questions:

1.) Ever hear of the straw that can break the camel's back? That's the issue with lint inside the trans. The T56 is a very precise and expensive piece of hardware. It relies on some very small internal oil feed holes to supply fresh oil to the bearings. It also relies on auto trans like linings inside the synchros. If lint were to build up inside one of these passages or on the linings of the synchros you could have a problem that would cause a bearing to fail or you to miss a shift. That's what would cause damage. I know it seems rediculous, but the T56 is on a whole other level than most other transmissions. You could probably put some gravel in a Muncie and it wouldn't hurt anything. It's an old design that is very basic and mechanicaly simple. The T56 is like a learjet to the Muncie's biplane.

As far as cleaning try this: Wipe everything down until no oil comes off on a paper towel or rag. Then hose it down with brake clean. Then use the compressed air. If anything dries still looking "wet", hose it down again and re-dry. That'll keep stuff lint free, get all the oil and contaminants off, and save you some money on brake clean.

2.) Typically all of the bearings look about the same. If they don't something wasn't set up properly, or something ran through that bearing like a little spec of gear metal. When I'm doing a full rebuild I just replace everything regardless of appearance. Why? Because the way my luck runs I'd have trouble down the road from the one bearing that I looked at and said "this one looks fine I'll just toss it back in". The D&D kit uses all quality Timken bearings, and using them you can't go wrong. You probably won't even have to adjust the shims to get proper endplay, as I never have, but check it anyway.

3.) You are correct, always replace bearings and races as a pair. The races you don't think you can get to aren't pressed in. The trick is to use a set of dental picks and gently pry the race out of the bore. The trick is to bring them up evenly all the way around. If you get it cocked it won't want to come out. If that happens just smack it back into the bore and try again. It can be a little agravating, but eventually they'll come out.

4.) Hmn, something seems amiss there. Each synchro should use three dogs. You seem to be one synchro short. Double check that reverse uses the dogs. That's the one I'd suspect might not, as all that sleeve does is couple and uncouple the reverse gear. I can't remember off the top of my head and I don't have my book in front of me. If they forgot the dogs I'm sure D&D will make good. They're a great company to work with.

5.) It sounds like they might mean auto trans assembly lube. It's like a petroleum jelly type substance. I've never used it. When I need something to hold things together I tend to just use a little grease. The detergent properties of ATF will disolve the grease in a matter of minutes once the trans is back in service. I would set all the bearings up dry. The reason is that oil takes up space, and that's what you're trying to determine when you measure the endplay. It would be like oiling down the crank journal and bearings before using plastigauge to check the clearance. You'd get a false reading that was way too tight. Then you'de go with bigger bearings. What really happened is that you put in the oil(the very substance you were trying to factor the correct clearance for), so effectively you end up with double the clearance you need. Not good. I even go so far as to hose down brand new bearings with brake clean and dry them with compressed air so that any storage oil is removed, as well as any lint or contaminents. It seems ****, but when you're dealing with .003" clearance even the smallest spec can cause a false reading.

Regarding synthetic oil for the T56. I used it in mine from day one and have had no problems. I think if anything it will only prolong the life of the trans, as initial break in wear is reduced. There isn't anything inside a T56 that needs to "seat in" like say rings in a new engine, or wearing the phosphate finish off of a new ring & pinion. I highly recommend Amsoil ATF. It's the best stuff I've found to date. It is about $8 a quart, but even if you just buy a quart and play with a little bit of it you'll see why I like it so much. It's sticky, very consistent in weight, and seems to isolate contaminants much better than conventional ATF. I am totally sold on it and wouldn't dream of using anything else.

6.) I've read that one for years, and pretty much systematically ignored it, and I've never had a problem with a sycnhro assembly from doing so. I believe that what they are talking about is the orientation of the sliding sleeve to the synchro hub. Everything else moves in operation, so nothing else would really make any sense. I do make sure that the sliding sleeve is facing the same direction, but that's more a case of experience, as I've had some transmissions where the sleeve would only fit inside the case one way due to internal clearance problems, and the sleeve having a steeper taper on one side than the other. It's made me paranoid, so I always make sure they go in like they came out.

Let me know if you need any more help.

TKOPerformance

No problem, here's answers to your new questions:

1.) Ever hear of the straw that can break the camel's back? That's the issue with lint inside the trans. The T56 is a very precise and expensive piece of hardware. It relies on some very small internal oil feed holes to supply fresh oil to the bearings. It also relies on auto trans like linings inside the synchros. If lint were to build up inside one of these passages or on the linings of the synchros you could have a problem that would cause a bearing to fail or you to miss a shift. That's what would cause damage. I know it seems rediculous, but the T56 is on a whole other level than most other transmissions. You could probably put some gravel in a Muncie and it wouldn't hurt anything. It's an old design that is very basic and mechanicaly simple. The T56 is like a learjet to the Muncie's biplane.

As far as cleaning try this: Wipe everything down until no oil comes off on a paper towel or rag. Then hose it down with brake clean. Then use the compressed air. If anything dries still looking "wet", hose it down again and re-dry. That'll keep stuff lint free, get all the oil and contaminants off, and save you some money on brake clean.

2.) Typically all of the bearings look about the same. If they don't something wasn't set up properly, or something ran through that bearing like a little spec of gear metal. When I'm doing a full rebuild I just replace everything regardless of appearance. Why? Because the way my luck runs I'd have trouble down the road from the one bearing that I looked at and said "this one looks fine I'll just toss it back in". The D&D kit uses all quality Timken bearings, and using them you can't go wrong. You probably won't even have to adjust the shims to get proper endplay, as I never have, but check it anyway.

3.) You are correct, always replace bearings and races as a pair. The races you don't think you can get to aren't pressed in. The trick is to use a set of dental picks and gently pry the race out of the bore. The trick is to bring them up evenly all the way around. If you get it cocked it won't want to come out. If that happens just smack it back into the bore and try again. It can be a little agravating, but eventually they'll come out.

4.) Hmn, something seems amiss there. Each synchro should use three dogs. You seem to be one synchro short. Double check that reverse uses the dogs. That's the one I'd suspect might not, as all that sleeve does is couple and uncouple the reverse gear. I can't remember off the top of my head and I don't have my book in front of me. If they forgot the dogs I'm sure D&D will make good. They're a great company to work with.

5.) It sounds like they might mean auto trans assembly lube. It's like a petroleum jelly type substance. I've never used it. When I need something to hold things together I tend to just use a little grease. The detergent properties of ATF will disolve the grease in a matter of minutes once the trans is back in service. I would set all the bearings up dry. The reason is that oil takes up space, and that's what you're trying to determine when you measure the endplay. It would be like oiling down the crank journal and bearings before using plastigauge to check the clearance. You'd get a false reading that was way too tight. Then you'de go with bigger bearings. What really happened is that you put in the oil(the very substance you were trying to factor the correct clearance for), so effectively you end up with double the clearance you need. Not good. I even go so far as to hose down brand new bearings with brake clean and dry them with compressed air so that any storage oil is removed, as well as any lint or contaminents. It seems ****, but when you're dealing with .003" clearance even the smallest spec can cause a false reading.

Regarding synthetic oil for the T56. I used it in mine from day one and have had no problems. I think if anything it will only prolong the life of the trans, as initial break in wear is reduced. There isn't anything inside a T56 that needs to "seat in" like say rings in a new engine, or wearing the phosphate finish off of a new ring & pinion. I highly recommend Amsoil ATF. It's the best stuff I've found to date. It is about $8 a quart, but even if you just buy a quart and play with a little bit of it you'll see why I like it so much. It's sticky, very consistent in weight, and seems to isolate contaminants much better than conventional ATF. I am totally sold on it and wouldn't dream of using anything else.

6.) I've read that one for years, and pretty much systematically ignored it, and I've never had a problem with a sycnhro assembly from doing so. I believe that what they are talking about is the orientation of the sliding sleeve to the synchro hub. Everything else moves in operation, so nothing else would really make any sense. I do make sure that the sliding sleeve is facing the same direction, but that's more a case of experience, as I've had some transmissions where the sleeve would only fit inside the case one way due to internal clearance problems, and the sleeve having a steeper taper on one side than the other. It's made me paranoid, so I always make sure they go in like they came out.

Let me know if you need any more help.

VILeninDM

Thanks a lot TKO

Didn't realize the tranny had those oiling passages. Now it makes sense.

I just visited D&D's website and here's their synchro rebuild kit:


This is exactly what I got. I guess reverse synchro isn't considered a wearable item, but all 4 synchros do have those keys.

TKOPerformance

In truth the dogs very rarely wear out. If it's a concern just buy them from D&D they are rediculously cheap. Get new springs while you're at it. You'll probably pay more in postage than for the parts!

See those little plastic shift fork pads? If you go with a Pro 5.0 or other aftermarket shifter that eliminates the rubber shock absorber (all aftermarket ones do because that's why the stock one feels so sloppy), break yourself of the habit of driving down the road with your hand on the stick. If you keep your hand there you'll induce rapid wear on those pads and end up with poor shifting in short order. Then you've got to tear down the whole trans just to replace those $0.05 pads. Just a word of advice. That's a problem common on T5s as well.

VILeninDM

Thanks for the warning. I already bought Pro5.0 for this thing

TKOPerformance

Good to hear. I'm convinced they are the best shifter around. They are positively bulletproof.

Most people don't know about that potential problem, and I've had people blame the shifter. They don't seem to want to accept the fact that when you modify a car from the way it was built at the factory there are certain tradeoffs that have to be made, even with something as seemingly simple as a shifter. The factory could have desinged and built a solid mount shifter. The reason they didn't is one cost, two warranty claims arising from people doing exactly what I warned you about, and three they have to make the car cushy enough for a grandma to drive (or at least they seem to think that). They built a shifter with the best compromise of those three factors. It sucks for performance use, so Pro 5.0 designed one that was better for performance use, but along the way some of the other criteria was ignored or deprioritized in the name of performance. I wouldn't have it any other way!

VILeninDM

well, slowly but surely it is going. Disassembled the mainshaft and actually put it back together with everything shining.

I am still having issues with those bearing races. The two in the tranny case between 1st and 6th gears and the main shaft bearing race inside the input shaft. It looks like they are sitting there quite snug. I have dental picks, but I don't seem to be able to do much.

Any ideas/hits/suggestions?

TKOPerformance

The ones in the main case you describe are pressed in. Use a brass punch and smack them out from the backside. There should just be a hair of the race exposed on the backside, and with a good, properly shaped punch you can get on that and drive the race out. If you punches are looking rounded or chipped square them up in a bench grinder.

The one in the input shaft is also pressed in, and it's a joy to remove. You're going to have to get creative with it. I made a tool to pull that race. It has two sideways facing jaws ground to a point. I joined the jaws at the top with a pivot bolt and then used a jack screw between them. By tightening down the jack screw it pushed the jaws into the gap between the race and the body of the shaft at the bottom of the race. Eventually I got enough of a gap to get a conventional two jaw puller in there and pull the race out. I probably ought to patent that tool. A lot of different transmissions are built like that.

Another option is to grind a slot in the race with a die grinder and use that to collapse it in on itself. This will work, but you have to be very, very careful that you only grind on the race, and not the body of the input shaft.

VILeninDM

Well, I have pretty much everything disassembled, cleaned and reassembled. And successfully replaced the two bearing races in the case. Those weren't as bad as I thought they would be.

As for the bearing inside the input shaft. That one is as bad as I expected it to be. Few guys on LS2.com board said it should be spinning in there, but I spent 2.5 hours today trying to reason with it and that race just doesn't want to cooperate.

TKO, you have a picture or drawing of that tool you made. I tried searching online for something similar I could buy, but couldn't find much (except a very cool looking tool but it said it was specific for some european model). If this is a common setup with the trannys, I just can't believe they would have mechanics coming up with their own tools.

I tried pilot bearing puller from harbor freight, but there wasn't enough edge for it to grip.

VILeninDM

on a brighter note, I found a local place that does metal fabrication and the guy there made me an endplay adjusting tool for $55. He also gave me a whole bunch of scrap metal and cut it up in smaller pieces for practicing welding. It's amazing how friendly some people are.

TKOPerformance

As for the input shaft race tool. I didn't really look for one when I started rebuilding transmissions, so I'm not saying that there isn't one out there. The one I built was done out of necessity. I saw what was required, knew that a conventional puller wouldn't work, and spent two hours fabricating one. I don't have a picture of it, but if you PM me I'll try to send you a drawing of it.

Those pilot bearing pullers from Harbor Freight are useful for a lot of stuff, just not that input shaft race. I bought one when they went on sale (that little paper they send you with stuff on sale is great BTW, it tells me when it's time to head up there and grab a bunch of stuff). I had to do a little fine grindng on the jaws, but for $12 what do you expect? I recently used mine to remove the axel shaft support bearings inside the spindels on the front axel of my Blazer. There was just no other way to get the darn things out, and that puller was a godsend. Now I've got 30-spline front shafts in my 10-bolt. It isn't a Dana 60, but it didn't cost $3,500 either.

VILeninDM

Here's an update. I went to local FleetPride place today. They got that bearing race out of the input shaft in about 10 minutes and didn't even charge me anything.

Apparently all you have to do is put a weld bead around the race and when it cools down it shrinks along with the race and then the race just falls out. In this case there wasn't enough room for that, so they put 4 tack welds and that was enough to extract the race.

Too bad I have to do some work today. I'd be in the garage right now assembling this thing.

VILeninDM

Alright, more questions

Finally have everything cleaned and replaced, so today I started the shimming procedure to make sure all that stuff is still right.

1) input/main shaft was moving about .065" w/o any shims. Then again that was not an exercise in exact science because I think there was a little too much movement. (and who would have though magnetic base doesn't stick to the case. is that alluminum or something?) I put back original shim .050" and endplay went to 0.

It is possible original shim is too big, but case did close without any force and I could still rotate main/input shaft without much effort. When doing the rear end, you actually adjust shims down few thousandth and smaller shims cause greater preload. In this case, I didn't see any preload. Can I say "pass?"

2) Counter shaft measurement was a little closer. I measure endplay .032" w/o shim and original shim was .037" only .005" difference. I put it in and again endplay want to 0" without any noticable preload. Good?

3) Counter shaft extension. This one was a little different. After I put in original shim, .044", I still had endplay of .006-.007" The manual says endplay should be betwee .002-.005" Should I get slightly larger shim for this one?

All the shimming was done without any gasket material. Manual didn't say anything about that.

4) So after I get the shimming done, I probably should put everything back together. What sealants are recommended for this job? Should I use locktite anywhere? (reverse idler gear bracket bolts, rail guide bolts, drain/fill plugs, adapter plate bolts, extension housing bolts, shifter bolts)

I have 2 silicone sealants. One I bought high-temp for engine oil pan. The other one I used for the rear end cover. Can I use the same one I used for rear end, or does this one have to be special? How bad is it if some silicone ends up on the inside? I was **** about it when I did the rear end and now one of the bolts is leaking oil.

TKOPerformance

1.) The case is indeed aluminum. I took a flat piece of 1/8" plate about 3" wide and drilled two hold in it to line up with two of the bellhousing holes. Then I used bolts and nuts to secure it to the case. This provided a mount for the magnetic base on my dial indicator. My recollection is that the mainshaft should spec out with zero endplay, or even a slight amount of preload, like .002". Is it possible that the original shim is too thick? Certainly. The key is to have accurate measurements. When you are dealing with only a few thousandths of an inch you have to be very precise. If you install everythig without shims and get a reading of .065" endplay, then you need .065-.067" shim to get the correct endplay/preload. I'm not sure what you're talking about relative to rear ends. To set the preload on the carrier bearings for example I use shims that will fit easily, but allow me to take the carrier back out without a crowbar to make adjustments. When I get the right pattern & backlash I add about .004-.005" shim thickness to both sides, and drive the shims in with a brass punch. This preloads the carrier bearings. Using thinner shims would open the clearances up and allow side to side movement, which would be devastating.

2.) That sounds fine for the countershaft.

3.) Yes, get a slightly thicker shim to get within spec. You should do the clearances dry. Trying to use the silicone and then clean it off an reassemble would be a nightmarish mess. It probably adds very little thickness to the assembly, as all it really does is fill minor surface voids, plus I'm sure the good people at Tremec thought of that when they spec'd the clearances.

4.) I use Permatex Ultra Black for the case sealing. I used blue Locktite on the reverse idler gear bracket and shift plate bolts. I use paste Teflon on the drain & fill plugs. I wouldn't worry about silicone getting inside the case. Even if a gob broke off and went through the guts I doubt it would hurt anything, and for that to happen you'd have to use way too much anyway. I cut the first notch in the tip off the nozle for the tube. I apply a thin bead all the way around, and then use my finger to make the bead into a skin across the surface. I let that set up for a few minutes, and then assemble everything. I've never had a leak doing it that way. If you've got a leak from a bolt in your rear end cover it's got to come apart. The bolt itself isn't leaking, as the cover bolts don't actually go through into the case, they are blind tapped. The only way the bolt itself could leak would be if the case was cracked. Most likely the cover is leaking around the bolt. I seal a rear cover by using a skin of silicone on both faces and a good fiber gasket between. A lot of people tell me this is overkill, but I've never had a cover leak doing this, so it's hard for me to argue with success. I also really don't like the smell of gear oil, so having to do that job twice is an unpleasant thought.

VILeninDM

yeah sounds like I should redo the input/main shaft endplay measurement. I used the table leg for the base, but I don't think that worked too well.

The thing is that I measured .065 and shim was only .050. But it was kinda hard to measure the endplay because input shaft was so loose in there. It moved up/down (with enough force) and also side to side, which I think affected readings.

I put 0.050" shim for the input shaft and endplay went to 0. So I thought shim is either right, or is too small. But if it is too small, I would expect that input/main shaft would be hard to rotate, right? similar to preload with rear ends. But with 0.050 input/main shaft rotates just fine. That's why I wasn't sure if I need to change anything.

I'll try it again with a metal plate the way you suggested. It should make readings more accurate. And looks like I definitely need new shim for the extension housing.

TKOPerformance

The danger with a zero reading is that there is too much preload. Effectively 0.000" and -0.010" read the same; no movement. To get the right shim you need to measure the factory shim thickness, then measure the endlplay without a shim, and then figure out how thick the shim needs to be to get the correct endplay/preload. If this is impractical because of too much side to side movement I would suggest starting with a thinner shim and measuring endplay, like a .045". If you get .005" then you know that to reach 0.000" you need the factory 0.050" shim. If the shim thickness was way off you'd have trouble getting the case together, but the difference of .005" is so small that it won't show up like that. The T56 is a very precise piece of hardware, as I'm sure you're starting to see.

VILeninDM

Haven't been here for a while, so just wanted to check in.

After wasting most of the week with drivetrain.com people (see here ), I did some googlin' and found a company one hour away that sold the shim kit, so I went there this weekend to pick it up. The guys told me they found the kit by accident and it is actually something chrysler is using when rebuilding T56's for vipers. GM doesn't have anything like it, every single shim you have to get separately. I got a kit with about 50 pieces for $21. And people at GM dealer did not even know there are shims inside the tranny, which is kinda funny because I asked them if they fix tranmissions for 96 camaro's and they said yes. Their exact words: "There are shims INSIDE the transmission?"

So got the endplay to .000" for both shafts by slowly increasing shim size until the play was just gone. counter shaft extension is at .003"

I got most of the tranny back together today. The only thing I have left to put the idler gear back into extension housing and attach the extension housing and the shifter to it. Don't want to jinx it by saying I am done, but I don't think anything can stop me at this point .

Since the tranny is not going into the car for some time, I was thinking of filling it with regular Dex III (not synthetic) and let it sit. Then drain it right before putting into the car, and once it is in, fill it with good stuff. Does this make sense?

TKOPerformance

If it's going to sit for a while I would do something to prevent corrosion and condensation. I know it sounds funny, but I'd keep the trans inside the house. The temperature and humidity levels will be much more stable than out in the garage. This should prevent condensation from forming inside the trans. Then I think I'd add about 1/2 quart of Amsoil synthetic ATF to the trans and roll it around so the oil coats everything. The synthetic is really sticky, so once it gets on the parts it will stick and form a protective barrier. I wouldn't try to fill the trans up. Without the yoke in the tailshaft oil will be apt to run out the back of the case making a mess. Plus the trans takes 4-quarts of oil, which at about 5 lbs each will add another 20 lbs to the weight of the trans, which is already rather heavy and awkward to move around.

VILeninDM

tranny inside the house... funny ?? where else would I keep it

You probably didn't see pictures of C5 calipers, 3" driveshaft and a clutch sitting on my dining room table. Calipers were sitting there for about 2 months before I finally moved them and my girlfriend didn't say a word. Then again, I don't think she really knows what a brake fluid really is.

I was thinking of putting more oil in there because I think one of its properties is to absorb everything including moisture, so I figured more oil would easier absorb anything that might get in. Output shaft is located at the top, so it should be possible to fill it with 3 or so quarts. I was thinking of moving it to its resting place and then filling it to avoid the mess you've mentioned.

I could probably also wrap it in plastic. That should help keep the elements out.

VILeninDM

^^^^^ and put some of those mosture absorbing packets that you throw away after eating beef jerky. Well, that may be a little too crazy.

VILeninDM

And here it is...







The only things left now is to wait for the sealant to cure, fill with some tranny oil, find a spedo sensor ( I went back to august pictures and apparently I never had one, just didn't notice it before) and store this baby.

Now I am onto doing some major body work.

TKO, I owe you one for this. You've stuck with me to the end and that is very much appreciated. And when I say "one", I mean at least a 12 pack next time I am in Delaware. What's your preference?

Btw, for anyone looking for shims in the future: Viper has that kit I already mentioned. Official part number is TRKT1371. According to the guys I spoke with, any chrysler dealer can get this for you. If that is not the case, you can get it directly from them: http://www.autogear.net

Strick1

I know this was back in 2005, but this thread is exactly what I need to rebuild my T56. Thanks to both of you guys.