Ford 8.8 finished and working great! pics inside
#1
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
Ford 8.8 finished and working great! pics inside
After breaking a ten bolt a few years ago and toasting two 9 bolts the last couple seasons I decided to make up a whole new rear. I chose the Ford 8.8 over the 9 inch or 12 bolt and heres why; Its VERY tough... many believe its stronger than a 12 bolt and if they don't they will admit that it is at least equal in strength( ask Moser or Strange ). Its way lighter than both especially the 9 inch. The 8.8 is more effecient=more RWHP. I upgraded to 31 spline Moser bolt on axles so it will handle extremely high amounts of horsepower and I did not have to use crappy c-clip eliminators cause they leak often. Another bonus that I felt was important is the 8.8 rears are QUIET... I mean quieter than even a stock ten bolt whereas 9 inchers are very loud and 12 bolts are fairly noisy too. So after weighing up all the pros with no real cons here is what I made. What do you guys think?
#2
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
Hers a shot of the TQA bracket up close. I also did the LS1 brake swap for those wondering about the brake hardware in the last pic. I did the whole job up on a VERY accurate jig that we spent 2 weeks creating. The tolerances on everything are very tight so this is a direct bolt in with no mods required to the car or the torque arm. It bolts right in and works great.
#4
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 42
Likes: 1
From: Franklin, TN
Car: 89 RS (original V6 car)
Engine: 355 TPI
Transmission: T5
Very interesting- I don't know much about Fords- what car did you get it out of? How does it compare for track width? Do the axles have the 4 3/4 bolt circle and the same wheel pilot diameter as a 9 or 10 bolt (will Camaro wheels fit)? Do the stock axles have 12mm studs? What do you think a core should cost if I wanted to do a conversion to my car- thanks!!!!!!!!!
#5
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Car: traded away 94 v6
Engine: vacant
Transmission: also vacant
Whats the tq arm bracket welded to? From the little I can see it looks like you welded it ot the housing itself......its cast steel right? Good job though, look s a whole lot nicer than my 8.5" 10 bolt swap.
#6
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
mike48 Its a custom housing that has to be welded up from a mustang rear and a Camaro rear so unfortunately its not as easy as finding a suitable core and drilling the axles.
Xhiron Yes its welded right to the cast and thanks for noticing the quality... Every effort was taken to ensure the utmost quality to the whole job. There are some more reinforcments that you cannot see on the other side of the bracket also.
Xhiron Yes its welded right to the cast and thanks for noticing the quality... Every effort was taken to ensure the utmost quality to the whole job. There are some more reinforcments that you cannot see on the other side of the bracket also.
Trending Topics
#8
ok i'm a little slow so bear with me. you take a 8.8 out of a mustang and remove the tubes right? then take a 10 bolt and remove the tubes and weld them in the 8.8 center section. do you use the flanges from the 10 bolt? is the 8.8 a c clip rear? looks very good.
#9
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
ede I used a Mustang center section with premium upgraded internals to allow the use of the 31 spline axles. I use 10 bolt tubes with Ford 9" axle ends so I would have no retention worries. I could have used the 10 bolt ends with c-clip elimnators but the bearing is very small on those which makes the axle bearing journal small=weak and they usually leak if you use them on the street so I wanted the best quality solution which was large press on bearing bolt on axles. The most involved part of the whole job was making up the jig as it took considerable time to do it right and keep it accurate. I figure do it right do it once. I know now that my rear end worries are over regardless of how much my horse power grows. I know guys who run 900 horse nitrous injected Mustangs that use the 8.8 proudly and I am sure you guys have seen those fast Stangs at the track that also use this rear. To make it even better consider how many F150's and Crown Vic taxi cabs with a zillion miles running this rear. Its a gem too bad Chevy didn't make us one like it eh?
#11
thats pretty cool , so now i know i two rear ends that arent bought that will both into a trans am or camaro besides a 12 bolt and ford 9 inch. You have your ford 8.8 and my chrysler 8 3/4.Check out my pics in my sig. Good work . Isnt it cool to have somethign different than others.
#12
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
To be honest this was born of neccessity and I don't care much about being different. I just wanted to not have to worry about my rear every time I drove my car as it was ruining my fun and the bolt in 9 inchers or 12 bolts are overpriced.
I have a couple of Mopar friends who run the 8.75 and its okay but they are noisy and the pinion snaps if you put them through too much power and parts are pricey for them. Don't get me wrong its light years better than a ten bolt or 9 bolt but I spent considerable time researching and weighing up the pros and cons and concluded that the 8.8 is the best solution out there. Its good to 8 or 900 horse and it weighs only 21 pounds more than a stock ten bolt plus its very effecient and parts are highly available and affordably priced. Its so nice and quiet you would never know it wasn't stock.
I have a couple of Mopar friends who run the 8.75 and its okay but they are noisy and the pinion snaps if you put them through too much power and parts are pricey for them. Don't get me wrong its light years better than a ten bolt or 9 bolt but I spent considerable time researching and weighing up the pros and cons and concluded that the 8.8 is the best solution out there. Its good to 8 or 900 horse and it weighs only 21 pounds more than a stock ten bolt plus its very effecient and parts are highly available and affordably priced. Its so nice and quiet you would never know it wasn't stock.
#14
Supreme Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,563
Likes: 1
Car: 1991 RS Camaro (Jet Black)
Engine: 95 383 CI (6.3) LT1
Transmission: 95 T-56
Originally posted by 87roc_t56
Hers a shot of the TQA bracket up close. I also did the LS1 brake swap for those wondering about the brake hardware in the last pic. I did the whole job up on a VERY accurate jig that we spent 2 weeks creating. The tolerances on everything are very tight so this is a direct bolt in with no mods required to the car or the torque arm. It bolts right in and works great.
Hers a shot of the TQA bracket up close. I also did the LS1 brake swap for those wondering about the brake hardware in the last pic. I did the whole job up on a VERY accurate jig that we spent 2 weeks creating. The tolerances on everything are very tight so this is a direct bolt in with no mods required to the car or the torque arm. It bolts right in and works great.
#15
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
I cannot discuss selling these yet as I am not allowed to on this forum but I have inquired about what is required to do so with respect to TGO and I will update with more info when we figure something out which should be soon.
#17
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
From: Bakersfield, under a ton of dust...
Car: A few
Engine: All Eights
Transmission: All kinds
Many.
Any V8 Mustang made from 1986 to now will have an 8.8. HTH
Peace,
K
Edit: Cobras after 1998 have IRS...
Peace,
K
Edit: Cobras after 1998 have IRS...
Last edited by KenV; 06-24-2004 at 08:46 PM.
#19
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
The housing I used came from a 91 Mustang but anything from the 5.0 days and newer will work fine. I think you will be very pleased with it when you get it done. Good luck
#20
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 168
Likes: 3
From: Ashburn, VA
Car: 91 Camaro Z28
Engine: LS3
Transmission: 6 Speed
Axle/Gears: 3.71
Originally posted by 87roc_t56
I cannot discuss selling these yet as I am not allowed to on this forum but I have inquired about what is required to do so with respect to TGO and I will update with more info when we figure something out which should be soon.
I cannot discuss selling these yet as I am not allowed to on this forum but I have inquired about what is required to do so with respect to TGO and I will update with more info when we figure something out which should be soon.
#23
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 0
From: College Station, Tex USA
Car: 89rs
Engine: 400Sb
Transmission: Tremec 3550
good work.. I was about to have to go that route myself
But, I just found a moser 9" setup for a third gen with 4.11s for 1200 + shipping. (which ant cheap now)..
He even said he would go 1650 for the 1le front brakes also...
:lala:
Gonna be updating my sig b4 long...
He even said he would go 1650 for the 1le front brakes also...
:lala:
Gonna be updating my sig b4 long...
#25
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
Marc 85Z28 Call Moser or Strange and get some informed info. I researched ALL diffs before I chose the 8.8. Its far superior to the 8.5 or I would have used it. In fact the only stock non full floating rear that is stronger is the 9 inch Ford but its almost 100 pounds heavier and 3% less effecient and its very LOUD. Besides the 8.8 can handle upwards of 800 horsepower which is more than most of us ever dream to make. I have seen others push even more than that through them with no problems. The 8.5 may be much better than a 7.5 but the 8.8 is a gem that runs in the major league.
#26
there are a handfull of guys using this rear for the 4th gen ls1 cars. couple have broken so if you plan on putting more than 400rwhp+ you may want to do some research. i know of one guy in texas making these right now stand up guy too. every rear that has broken he has fixed for free. i plan on doing one of these for my camaro before the end of this year
#27
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
I am aware of this guy and I have checked into his rears and its not the rear that fails at all but his fabrication has not stood up. I have chatted with him and the guys who's rears have broken. He has had two failures. In one case it was too light duty of materials used for the torque arm bracket that failed and in another instance his welds on the axle tubes cracked apart. In both cases the customer repaired it themselves.
I do not know what license this guy holds but my welder is UA licensed pipe certified 18 years experience and my machinist is one of Magna's top tool and die makers in Concord with 22 years experience. I too stand behind what I do and thats why the first rear I made is in my car so I can beat the snot out of it to be sure that it will hold up. Only top quality materials are used here.
I do not know what license this guy holds but my welder is UA licensed pipe certified 18 years experience and my machinist is one of Magna's top tool and die makers in Concord with 22 years experience. I too stand behind what I do and thats why the first rear I made is in my car so I can beat the snot out of it to be sure that it will hold up. Only top quality materials are used here.
#29
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
I still cannot discuss selling these yet but I am working on it. It would speed things up and be great if I had an actual idea of who is genuinely interested in one. I cannot discuss price but I can tell you that it will be very good value compared to other rears of this caliber. Thanks guys.
#30
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,974
Likes: 0
From: Pueblo Co
Car: 1989 C4
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 307
Originally posted by 87roc_t56
I cannot discuss selling these yet as I am not allowed to on this forum but I have inquired about what is required to do so with respect to TGO and I will update with more info when we figure something out which should be soon.
I cannot discuss selling these yet as I am not allowed to on this forum but I have inquired about what is required to do so with respect to TGO and I will update with more info when we figure something out which should be soon.
In general
Now as far as the 8.8 goes I can think of quite a few drawbacks with them. There isnt a strength issue over any "real" differential setup, granted you have hubs "axle ends" that would be a nice addition to any rear end the major drawback would still be gear swaps. Its just like the 9,10,12 14 bolt GM as far as gear swaps go. Thats the only advantage I see with a fNord9. Out of the 9bolt 7.5 arena where the axle tubes are match sticks a 8.5, 12 bolt danna rear or 9in will all hold around the same abuse level even in stock forms they hang well.
#31
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,259
Likes: 0
From: Woodstock, GA
Car: 1987 Trans Am
I have three third gens in my garage right now that would all benefit from this rear...and know of another right offhand that would be interested. Having owned a couple 5.0 Mustangs myself, I wouldn't hesitate to use an 8.8 in any street-strip car. My 91 coupe made 517 at the rear wheels, and the STOCK 28 spline 8.8 with 4.11 Motorsport gears held up just fine. Your setup is much better strengthwise. If you go through with this, and can keep the price reasonable (I had $2300 in my last 9"), you're going to sell a ton of them!
BTW if you're looking for dealers, PM me with some info!
BTW if you're looking for dealers, PM me with some info!
#32
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
Thanks for the encouragement guys it is well received. I too have... uh oh I hate to admit it but I did own a fast Ford in years gone by and it did have emblems that looked kind of 5.0 ish. It too had the stock 28 spline c clip rear... slicks and all running low 12's with not one problem... I still hear of this car even though it has migrated its way three hours drive North of me and never heard of any issues other than it eating t-5's at least once a year
Answers soon I hope. Thanks again
Answers soon I hope. Thanks again
#33
87roc_t56, could 9 bolt axle tubes and ends be used? That way you would already have bolt in axles? Great Work!!!
By the way, I would be interested in one as soon as the 9 bolt lets go...hopefully not all that soon !
By the way, I would be interested in one as soon as the 9 bolt lets go...hopefully not all that soon !
#34
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
Sure you could use 9 bolt ends but the bearing journal will be quite a bit smaller as I believe the 9 bolt has a 1.3?" journal whereas the heavy nine inch ends use a 1.53" journal. Not that it would matter much IMO as most axle failures ocuur at the spline end but it would affect the overall strength somewhat. Solid tip though
#36
Originally posted by 87roc_t56
Marc 85Z28 Call Moser or Strange and get some informed info.
Marc 85Z28 Call Moser or Strange and get some informed info.
I've seen more than enough 8.8s fail in grandma driven Town Cars and Grand Marquis'
#37
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
IROCFAST the axles would clear by a hair to allow the 9 bolt bearing on so it would work but it would really only help if you plan on using the 9 bolt disc brakes because the housings ends I use come ready to accept the stock 10 bolt GM brakes. Here is a pic of the end
#40
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 814
Likes: 1
From: Savannah GA
Car: 1982 Trans Am
Engine: 383 chevy
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: 4th gen 10-bolt, posi, 3.42 ratio
if you build them, we will come. so when you build them (I'm keeping my fingers crossed) let us know, and we'll line up and order 'em.
#42
Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: Aurora, ON, Canada
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 4 Spd Auto
When you mention your machinist working in concorn, are you talking canada by any chance?? You have any pics of the rear installed???
When you figure out if your going to produce these things could you pm me with some info and a ballpark price???
That seems like a hell of a job you got yourself into there. Glad to see it all worked out and is done!!
When you figure out if your going to produce these things could you pm me with some info and a ballpark price???
That seems like a hell of a job you got yourself into there. Glad to see it all worked out and is done!!
#43
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 4
From: In the Garage
Car: Camaro
Engine: 6.2L
Transmission: T56
Don't know if i ever heard of concorn LOL Yes it is Concord On Canada you got it. I was wondering when anyone would pick up on that. You know they actually have Concord spec now? Its amongst the highest rating of machining quality standards equalled only by German spec so I'm told by my Magna friend and I have no reason to doubt him.
For others watching just an update all is rolling well. Trying to put as much abuse on the dif as I can but I need more power now that I have no concerns other than perhaps the aluminum shaft. I gotta get the slicks on it and see how it handles some hard clutch dumps! Now I can finally build that 400 I have waiting in the shop :lala:
For others watching just an update all is rolling well. Trying to put as much abuse on the dif as I can but I need more power now that I have no concerns other than perhaps the aluminum shaft. I gotta get the slicks on it and see how it handles some hard clutch dumps! Now I can finally build that 400 I have waiting in the shop :lala:
#44
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 814
Likes: 1
From: Savannah GA
Car: 1982 Trans Am
Engine: 383 chevy
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: 4th gen 10-bolt, posi, 3.42 ratio
I'm on the edge of my seat. I'm going to order a diff cover with the pre-load bolts for the axles( a girdle cover? is that the right name?) for me 10 bolt. after that, I'll start saving my money in anticipation. I'm relly excited that there may soon be a viable alternative to moser or strange or currie, or all the other companies. I wanna stout rear, but i don't need something that will take 1400 HP (yet) and my 2600 bucks with it. (exaggeration) but I do need something stronger then a 10-bolt or 9-bolt. let me be the first to say thanks for doing the research and making this a reality for all of us, because we don't all have the resources to fab and machine and weld EVERY last thing on our cars. that's what makes the hobby fun and interesting and even viable...... you do what you can, if you can't, you get your buds to help, if none of you can, then you buy for it. It's stuff like this that makes me proud to call myself a hot rodder. so it looks like I'll be adding something else to my wish list.
#46
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
Car: 87 IROC (looks like 91-92 Z28 tho huh?)
Engine: 355
Transmission: T-56
Just a quick FYI:
My Mustang buddy tells me that 4x4 Ford Explorers came from the factory with 8.8 rears AND 31 spline axels. We're gonna comb the local wreckers trying to find one and verify.
If anyone wants to know more, i can find out from bud if you like
My Mustang buddy tells me that 4x4 Ford Explorers came from the factory with 8.8 rears AND 31 spline axels. We're gonna comb the local wreckers trying to find one and verify.
If anyone wants to know more, i can find out from bud if you like
#48
Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 200
Likes: 1
From: Minny
Car: One of 5
Engine: LB9
Transmission: 700R4
I'd bet most F150's from the early 80's came with a 8.8. I know my old 89 4X4 did. Alot of the trucks and for sure the explorers came with 31 spline axles, T-loks that are completely rebuildable and can be made stronger with extra discs, and alot of the 97+ came with 3.73 or 4.10's. All you have to do with a 8.8 is weld the axle tubes, c-clip eliminators,spool and 31 spline axles and they are bulletproof.
I'd be interested in this setup for my camaro as I run what I listed in my mustang. Would be a nice upgrade for piece of mind.
I'd be interested in this setup for my camaro as I run what I listed in my mustang. Would be a nice upgrade for piece of mind.
#50
Supreme Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 5
From: Pitman, NJ
Car: '89 IROC-Z
Engine: Canfield 195 headed 358ci
Transmission: TH350, Art Carr 9.5"
Axle/Gears: 3.92 Dana 44
That is absolutely awesome. I always liked 8.8's... Everyone seems to go with 12-bolts or 9" but they dont take into account how much weight and HP they rob - Thats always whats on my mind, every little bit counts. Although, when you aren't a fabricator or your pockets aren't deep, you have little chose but to get a 9" or 12bolt
I know a guy in the mid 8's with an 8.8 built similar to yours. You should have a very hard time breaking it, as my friend 60 ft's with his rear tires
I know a guy in the mid 8's with an 8.8 built similar to yours. You should have a very hard time breaking it, as my friend 60 ft's with his rear tires