Ray87Z

I did some searching and found very little first hand experience with these here, anyone running one and have any input? My tranny has been on it's deathbed for forever, and I finally have some cash coming in (but not enough to go with Pro-Built) so I'm looking at the Mega Monster 700r4 here along with one of their converters (2300-2500 12" lockup): http://www.thmonster.com/transmissio...0r4/index.html

They run a Ebay sale every once and awhile that is like $850 with no core charge, that seems like a good deal... Any input, I'm leaning toward giving them a shot, the one or two reports from here I found searching seemed pretty positive...

Specs from link:
• Superior High Performance Reprogramming Shift Kit
• Monster Mega Valve and an oversize low / reverse .500 TV Boost Valve, these two valves produce higher pressure and firmer shifts
• 10 Vane high performance / high volume pump, which have been tested and proven to be stronger than 13 vane pumps
• Superior High Performance Corvette Servo (Billet optional)
• Double High Output Pump Slide Spring
• 29 element heavy duty forward input sprag
• Extreme Hardened Sunshell
• New Filter
• Monster Performance 1-2 Accumulator Spring
• The Raybestos Pro Series black Kevlar band is used that holds in second and overdrive
• "The Monster" reaction shell, special separator plate
• Monster intermediate servo release check valve
• Red Eagle Racing Clutches
• Kolene Steels
• 3-4 High-Performance Clutch Pack
• A 3-4 clutch release spring kit is installed to help prevent 3-4 clutch failure
• Special Monster governor springs
• Free Monster Motorsports stickers
• $150 Core Charge for 700R4 *(current ebay add says no core charge for month of Feb)


The setup looks pretty good to me going by their listing. I'm only making 400hp/400ft-lbs max I would think so I don't need the strongest tranny on the planet, just one that won't take a crap on me like the rebuilt stocker did (local shop "performance" rebuild, lasted just under one lousy year before problems started popping up, keeping me from enjoying the darn car)...

KYL98

That sounds pretty reasonable....where are they located? I couldnt get the link to work....it might just be my pc here at work. Im looking to get mine rebuilt.....Im going to be running a mild 406 TPI in the future...but I dont plan on beating on it everyday or taking it to the track alot. Just a good driver with a firm shift........Id say go for it. All of the parts seem durable enough for 400HP. My brother has a 1990 454ss with a 700R4 that he got rebuilt....and it holds up fine.

bes217

That looks good to me. I may even think about saving up for one of those for my motor.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Do yourself a favor and stay away from a 2500 stalled 12in convertor. You'll be much happier if you do.

Jason

Ray87Z

Why is that? That's what I've been running on this tranny almost the whole time I've had it. The stock stall was killing me, this was a big improvement but I have no other decent stall converters to compare it to... What does the 10 or 11" model with the same stall do for me? Is there an affordable 10 or 11" lockup converter somewhere with a 2500-2600 max stall? I want to keep lockup and I don't think I want over a 2600 rpm stall since with 3.42s I'm cruising on the highway alot below 2500...

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

A high stalled 12 inch convetor is very ineffecient(sp?) To obtain the higher stall speed the fins are moved to a more negative angle which requires more engine rpm to go around the fins and into the front pump, after so much angle the converter becomes very ineffeicent because its using all its energy to get around the fins and buy the time it gets to the transmission its lost all its force, this also creates alot of heat.

With a smaller conveter, 9.5 or 10, it takes more engine rpm to create the same amount of force as a larger 12 inch, if you are wanting/needing higher stall this is good because the smaller conveter can have a very positive angle of the fins and pushes the fluid faster and harder into the tranny. I had a 2500 stall 12in in my car and it sucked, it would stall up but you couldn't really tell when it locked up, because it never really did, it was using so much energy to obtain the stall, any benefits were lost.
However after talking to Dana at Pro-built, who is awesome, he has helped me more than I can even start to explain, he explained to me why the smaller convertors are better and that convertor technology has come along way in the past 10 years. My 9.5 2800 stall ACT convetor is awesome, you can't tell its there untill you smack the gas, then it stalls up and when it gets to 2800 you know it because it locks in and tires start smoking, its kinda like popping a clutch in a 5/6 speed car.
After riding in my car my friend who has a 71 firebird w/ a mild 455 who was also running a high stall 12 in, couldn't get over how much different it felt and bought a 10 in contenintal from dana a month or so later for his TH350. He dropped over .3 off his 1/8 mile with just the conveter swap. His car is a completely different car now, it snaps when the it gets on the convertor, stalls quicker, revs faster. I didn't understand the difference in a good convertor untill I bought one and my friend got one.

Not everyone needs a 9.5 high stall conveter, for a stock or mild stock application a 2200 stall or so 12 might be ok, don't quote me on that, I am not expert by any means. ACT, as I am sure other companies sell there stalls as low as 2600, they might go lower, you'd have to ask dana about that.

If I am incorrect on anything I said pleas e someone correct me.

Hope this helps. As I said, Dana at probuilt can answer any of your questions.

Pro-built:hail:

Ray87Z

Aren't those like $500 though? I would love to but I can't swing that. The 12" lockup from Monster is $251, they have a non-lockup 11" for $276 with a 2400-2800 rpm stall, not sure how that will be for cruising at the RPMs I do with no lockup though...

I thought I remembered ACT converters on Pro-builts site but he seems to only be advertising the Continental converters now, seems like they were out of my price range anyway...

Kingtal0n

Hes absolutelly correct. Look into Edge Converters if you can, http://www.edgeracingconverters.com/

Im sure youve heard of Yank and Vigilate.. $800-$1000 converters, but I like my $520 Edge converters more than my $1000 Vigilante converter if that says anything.

Also, the list of parts you listed sounds good, but transmission longevity isnt so much about the parts you use, but the attention to detail that is payed during assembly. For instance, when those guys put that thing together, did they polish the reverse input drum where the band rides? did they remove high spots from the 5 tangs in the aluminum input drum? did they flat sand all the aluminum pistons? sand the valve body? drill the proper sized holes in the plate? install new bushings all around?

These are just a small percentage of things that makes a 700R4 tough and live for a long time. all the strong parts in the world wont make a difference if the people assembling it didnt remove the high spots from the bottom of the input drum before assembly, it only takes a small burr to tear into a seal and cause serious slippage problems with the transmission 2000 miles down the road. THATS why DANA at probuilt charges so much money, and why his transmissions last longer than ANY I have EVER heard of. Its his level of attention to detail that makes them so strong, not so much the parts in it. Im in the middle of rebuilding my 700R4, with Dana's help and instruction im making it the way HE would make it, and i already have over 14 hours of sanding and polishing invested.

D Stroy H8

over 14 hours of sanding and polishing invested.



I am TOTALLY going with probuilt for my next 700R4 - too many happy customers to even think about another company.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I agree with you that as with a lot of things in the HP world, a lot of what you get with a transmission depends on the attention to detail. I think it's really unfortunate how much transmissions get treated as a "black box" and how little information there is on how to do a proper rebuild and especially blueprinting. Especially for those of us that have the skills to do the work but not really the funds to pay someone like Dana what his time is worth for futzing with these things to make them right. I've had some luck with ford AOD's, but basically there I was flying blind, I got the pile of "right" parts, took it all out and then put it all back in replacing the worn out stuff and cleaning up whatever didn't look right to me (one of them is in a 10 second car, the other is in an 11second car and both working well).

I know that there was a list of preferred parts and some basics were posted here way back by either probuilt or leo, but I don't know that the procedures have ever been listed here. Kingtal0n, would you mind listing the list that he gave you (assuming that's cool with him)? Or maybe we can get a list straight from the horse's mouth?

KYL98

Where can you get info on the Probuilt tranny's??? Id like to see how much one of those would run.....how much hp can they safely take? Like I said before, Im not building a super street beast that goes to the track every weekend....just want a good daily driver that I can depend on...and have some occasional fun next to an LS1...lol

Ray87Z

www.pro-built.net Couple levels to choose from, from $1400-$1500

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I know alot of guys have good luck with mid-west convertors. I have heard quite a few people using them on the www.camaroz28.com board. I paid 620 shipped for my ACT, and yes vig and yanks are 800-1000. Hope this helps.

I agree, when I blow my 700R4 up, and I know I will, I be buying one from Dana.

Ray87Z

Looks like Edge and Midwest make some decent 9.5-10 inch converters, but it appears I'll have to go with non-lockup to get one in my price range. I've emailed them some questions, we'll see what they say.

How will that work with a 2600-2800 stall with no lockup while I'm cruising on the highway (with 3.42s) below that RPM range? Wouldn't that mean alot of slipping/heat? I don't want to kill the new tranny/converter with excessive heat...

Kingtal0n

get a lockup converter; dont fool around with non lockup bull$#!T. For the increase in fuel economy alone it will pay for itself. TRUST ME ON THIS ONE.

Ray87Z

That's what I've been wanting to stay with, but that seems to limit me to a 12" converter, I simply cannot afford the tranny and a $500 converter which seems to be about the cheapest I can get a 9.5" lockup for... I'll see what Midwest and Edge have to say about some pricing when they respond to my emails, they may offer something I've missed...

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I have a 2800 stall with 3.23's and don't have the lock up wired in, but its a 406 with a double pumper so mileage is not a concern. However the great thing about lock up's is once you get into 2nd, 3rd and OD, after it locks up its like the stock convertor. Thats how alot of guys, LT1 and especially LS1's get away with running 3500-3800 stall and still remain streetable. Yes there is going to be a difference between a 2800 and a 3500, but you will learn how to drive it and after a while, you won't notice it, unless you have a really big stall. With lockup and a tight 9.5 or 10 2800, you won't even know there's a stall in the car, thats why alot of guys go with higher stall speeds after driving their car a while. I know I wish I would have gotten more stall. If you can't afford you can't afford it, there's alot of things I'd like to do but the money just isn't there. But if you can wait a while longer, trust me its worth the extra money to get a good convertor over the high stalled 12in. Do some searching on the camaroz28.com board for the midwests. There are several guys with impala's using them and have had great results.

KYL98

Correct me if Im wrong, but I was always under the impression that a higher stalled 9.5 or 10in converter will produce more torque than the same stall 12in, right??? I just always thought they would build torque faster....just seems to make more sense to go with a smaller converter. I used to have a 96 3.8 Camaro with the 4L60E...and the only mod I did to it was put a Precision Industries custom converter in it....and I was keeping up with Z28's....not beating them, but keeping up with them. That thing felt like a totally different car. Ive been looking at ProBuilts tranny's....I think Im going to go that route. Id rather pay more and get it done right the first time, than pay $700-800 and have to get it done AGAIN two years down the road........just my .02.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

converter size is not directly related to it's torque multiplication ratio

Blazer406

I bought my vigilante when they first came out for the 700R4..... I paid over $1200 for mine directly from them...... multiple lock-up disks.....billet back half......yada yada yada....... it makes my 4000# S10 Blazer cut a 1.81 60 ft time on ET streets with a mild 350. It flashes to about 3500-3800 RPM when I leave the line......and you can hardly tell you got a non-stock converter when you are easing around town. I believe the comparable vigilante to mine has droped in price considerably since I bought mine though.

Bottom line is save up and get you a real good converter..... you won't be sorry. My two most prized pieces on my Blazer is the converter and my trick-flow heads.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

You are right, it is refered to as the STR, I can't remember what it stands for. They measure it a stock convertor is supposed to have 1-1.5, a good 9.5 has 2-2.5 or more, the more STR you have will give you better 60 ft's but your mph will suffer because its not as effecient up top, its like anything else with cars, you can't have everything. You can lower your STR and won't be as quick down low but can retain your mph. Hope this helps.

Kingtal0n

Something I've learned about Stall Torque Ratio STR.... You can have a very "tight" STR and still have a very high stall speed. thats how you can have a 5000 RPMS stall converter but still daily drive it and get decent fuel economy... the STR works for you under light throttle to push the car and not slip.

This is where the major difference from the 12" to the 9.5" comes into play. the 12" aparently needs distance and angle in its fin's to make itself slip and create the stall, making heat and wasting fuel. the 9.5" can keep a very tight/close coupling while generating the desired stall with the STR math, as you add more torque the STR will rise the converter will slip and RPMS will rise... multiplying the torque that way.

So, converter size has ALOT to do with the way torque is multiplied, but its not directly related to torque multiplication. if you look inside a 9.5" converter and a 12" converter you may see what im talking about with the fins angles. This is how it was explained to me, i dont make converters, keep that in mind.