GASGZLR

I have a 700R4 (207,000 miles) with a B&M shift kit and corvette servo and a tork master 2000 converter(from my stock days). When I mash down the gas the whole car lifts up in the front and will chirp the tires a little but that's it. With all the crap I have done to my engine I should be able to shred the tires. They are 255-60-R15. I think I can't because I need a higher stall converter like 3000 but wil putting this on my old tranny make it blow? Also could it be that I am at 5800 feet? I am tired of seeing guys' cars with lesser motors like stock LT1 auto's that can just shred the tires. Need some input.

hot86z-28

Well i'm no genius but i dont think it is your TC, in my old Iroc, i could shred the tires no problem and it was stock TC with just a shift kit. Interesting problem you have though, most people want to spin less, you want to spin more... good luck figuring it out.

TekViper

shredding the tires off the line is a bad indication of power. how are your quarter mile times? if your times are good for what you've done to the car then id say your suspension is doing its job in shifting the weight back as you launch and avoiding tirespin.

TKOPerformance

How did you get that kind of mileage out of a 700R4? I've never seen one go past 135,000!

What kind of rear gear are you running? What all have you done to the motor?

ede

why would you want your tires to spin. what they're doing is good.

SSC

Ive got a customer that has a 84 Z28 with over 200,000 miles on the stock 700R4, they have a 3.42 posi setup.

Nothing real usefull to add to this thread but a higher stall converter wont do much. When I put a HD shift kit in my 700R4 it cut out a ton off pep off the line and it was installed correctly. Before the SK I could sit & spin to 3rd with the stock converter.

nick harmon

2000 rpm stall converter...hmmm...try stalling it up to 2000 rpm, let off the break, then mash the gas. dont just mash it, you have a stall converter. if you wanted to shred tires easier, you shouldnt have put that stall in there. IMO, more then half the cars on this site that have stall converters, dont even need them. these ppl are just wasting gas, and tranny longetivity, and they would probably be faster without their stalls. almost all the engines here make their power off idle, so why put a stall converter in a car that makes its power off idle? course this is just my .02

SSC

Fevre

Reason you run a higher stall is the allow the eng to rev up higher in its power band before the trans is engaged, kinda like dropping the clutch at 2000 rpm's in this case. Anytime you change cams to one with longer duration it is very beneficial to switch to a t/c with a higher stall rating. With the hot cam and 2000 stall the tires should be roasting pretty good from a stand still, sounds like your have some tuning issues. I have a hot cam, LT1 intake, 700r4 and 3.73 rear, tires go up in smoke at anything over 1/4 throttle.

nick harmon

as i said, if he were to stall it up to 2000 rpm, then it should roast the tires. as for the hot cam, i didnt know its power band started that high. i have a stall converter in my truck, which has no traction hardly, and if you mash the throttle off idle youll get a little bark. if you stall it up to 2000 rpm, let the brake off, THEN mash the throttle, it sends em up in a blaze of chrysler glory. i think its power band is 2500-5500, maybe 2000-5500, with its torque peak at 4400, and its HP peak at 5300. i could use a touch more stall myself, maybe 2500-3000. the cam is like 234/240@.50, or damn close to that number.VERY LUMPY! im gonna seach for the hot cams duration numbers, cause i cant imagine that its anywhere close to those numbers. not arguing at all, im just really surprised that a factory cam would be ground to have its power that high off idle in an engine today.

TKOPerformance

Again, what rear gear are you running?

My Blazer wouldn't even think about smoking the tires from a stop, even with a motor making 420+ lbs/ft and 360 HP. I run a 2,000 stall converter. I feel the problem was the 3.08 gears and 31" tall tires. If I went around a corner and mashed the gas at the apex it would roast the tires. I think because the RPMs were up there, and the weight was already in motion. I think it will be a lot better with 4.88s. We'll know when my trasn is done...

nick harmon

LT4: 218/226. so im gonna take a 1/4 educated guess and say 1500 starts its pull. so a 2000 would probably do great. unless your packin 2.73s, in which case youll need like a 3500 or something, lol. but as for your tire burning concerns, really, try stalling it up rather than just nailing it off idle. again, unless your packin 2.73s. if you are...WHATS WRONG WITH YOU? j/k
or whatever high gear set our cars came with. if its not 2.73 im not too far off i dont think.
actually my duration on my truck is 288/292 advertised. so at .50 im not sure, but i think i was close though.

GASGZLR

If I hold the brake push on the gas a little the rpms get a little higher but only to about 1300 or so and the car wants to take off bad to where the brakes won't even hold it. And when I do my burn out, the car sometimes rolls forward no matter how hard I push the brakes. Anyway, when I 'powerbrake' it and let off the brake and push the gas the tires do spin and they stay spinning until it shifts into second then it slows and finally stops. I'v been in LT1's where you just hammer the gas from a stop and they spin the tires pretty good. Could my converter actually be like a 1500 stall?

TKOPerformance

Possibly. Where did you get the converter from?

Sounds like you need a Line Lock...

SSC

Thats how you do a poor mans stall check. Basicly if you PB and it wants to pull @ 1300rpm your stall is around that area if the tach is accurate. I'd guess your converters stall is 1200 or so, it might have been sold as a higher stall but actuall stall depends on the engine, how built it is. The vett build we did, we put in a 2200 stall and with the engine mods its actuall stall was 14/1500RPM.

casper8x

Here's exerpt from B&M about True stall VS. Flash stall:

What is Stall Speed?
Stall speed can be measured in two ways, true stall and flash stall. True stall or what some people refer to as foot brake stall is the maximum engine rpm that can be achieved with the transmission in gear, with the brakes locked and the engine held at full throttle. However, true stall speed can be very difficult to achieve. Due to the fact that in almost every application the drive wheels will drive through the brakes, primarily because the brakes are trying to to hold the drive wheels after the rear end gear ratio. Transbrake equipped vehicles can read the true stall, because they can lock the transmission up internally by engaging two gears at the same time. By keeping the car from moving the converter is forced to absorb 100% of the engines torque, the resulting rpm is the true stall speed. Checking the true stall speed is extremely hard on a converter, especially with big horsepower engines. Race converters are really the only units designed to withstand this kind of punishment. Try to avoid full throttle stall tests whenever possible. Flash stall is a little different, flash stall is the maximum rpm that the engine achieves from a full throttle launch from a dead stop, not being held back by any kind of brakes. Because on a launch, the converter sees less load than it would see under a fully loaded stall test, the flash stall will almost always be lower. Flash stall can change just by changing the load that the converter sees. For instance, if your car has a 4.10 rear gear and the flash stall you achieve is 2800 rpm on a launch, if you changed the rear gear to a 3.90 you could see 3000 rpm because the load the converter sees went up. It also works the other way. A 4.30 gear would cause the flash stall to go down. Because the converter starts to couple up progressively as the load it sees gets lower. Thus a 4.30 rear gear would make the car easier to move. You could test this easily by finding a steep hill. The flash stall will be higher as you go up the hill, and lower as you come down the hill, purely because of load. Heavier vehicles and lighter vehicles will have the same type of effect on flash stall.

nick harmon

what he said maybe time for a 2500? my .02 seriously, what gears are you packin? thats a major issue at this point.

nadster

Heheh, I just hit 144k on mine, tcc finally gave and is slipping most noticably in 4th overdrive. (step on the gas a bit, and you suddenly notice the car rev up like the clutch on a manual trans is going out). Ah well, just a little old 6cyl.. Gives me an excuse to swap in a crate 350 and a new 700r

-Dan

http://camaro.oldbattery.com

kd5boc

A buddies 86 Firebird has over 173k on his with no rebuild...however it may not be standard as it requires a 200 filter...

Bandit5

My 700R4 lasted until 160K, then when I put in a Moser 9" with 3.70 posi, it suddenly died.

88IROC350TPI

Uhh every automatic car has a "stall converter" Even a stock car would benefit from a higher stall than stock (to a point) because the factory converter is designed for drivability and gas milage, not performance. So, please explain to me why ANYONE with a performance engine doesn't need a higher stalling converter?

GASGZLR: I know a guy with a motor almost identical to you running 12.90-13.0's you should have no trouble making a decent amount of power. Have you ever gone to the track? Although not spinning your tires off the line is a good thing you most likely have a motor problem. Either timing or carb tuning.

My friends combo is: 355 9.5:1 compression, LT4 Hot cam, Vortec heads (1.6 rockers), 750DP Holley, RPM intake, 3.4x gears, and a TH350 with a 3000RPM converter. This car has traction problems even with slicks.

nolanr0413

why can't u spin the tires from a stop? NOT ENOUGH HORSEPOWER.

GASGZLR

My carb and timing(16 initial, 36 total@3000) are fine! I run a 13.9@97 mph here in Albuquerque,NM (5500 FEET)which is about a 13.0 at sea level. I went down to Las Curces, which is by El Paso,TX, this weekend and my car is like ten times quicker! If I would just hit from a stop light with the car idling it would just start spinning and squeling the tires and the rear of the car would just start to slide sideways!!! When it would shift into second the same thing would happen just not as much. This is the way my car should be running. When I came back home it got all sluggish again. I figured that maybe the thicker air down there meant that I should jet my carb leaner but it is already as lean as it goes. I still think that I could use a higher stall like 2500-3000. At least I feel better knowing that I have the HP to roast em down at 3000 feet. Going to a 3 inch exhaust instead of my 2.5 will help too. I KILLED a Nissan 350Z down in Cruces that had intake and exhaust and 6-speed. It was quicker than I thought but it still went down, and besides the guy was cool and let me check it out!

TKOPerformance

Forced induction is the way to go at altitude. A higher stall will help, but if you really want to roast them nothing can compare to the instantaneous torque of a blower.

nick harmon

didnt i do that already? and it TOTALY depends on the performance of an engine. once agian, if the engine in question makes its power off idle, or close to idle, installing a "higher stalling" converter, IS NOT going to make it faster. ive been there and done that. and as mentioned before, all i did was overheat and destroy a tranny, and ruin my city gas mileage. not to mention the car was awfully sluggish at take off. as for me saying that GASGZLR didnt need a stall, i already corrected myself, as i didnt know the duration specs of that cam untill after i made that comment. this is my opinion, and i base it on reading AND experience through trial and error.

TKOPerformance

Even stock cars will benefit from a higher stall converter. I've seen guys drop .5 seconds off their ET doing this. The key is to get a good converter, and install a big tranny cooler at the same time. If you get a lockup converter you shouldn't have any worse milage on the highway.

88IROC350TPI

I can understand if you put a 3500RPM converter into a bone stock 350TPI or something you'll be having some issues BUT for instance, my friend has a 350TPI with your basic bolt-ons (stock heads/cam still). He has a 3.27 rear and was cutting 2.1 60 fts running 14.40's. He swapped in a torque converter out of a V6 S10 that stalls about 1000RPM higher than his stock converter. Now he can cut 1.9 60 fts and goes 14.0's (13.9 a few times). He has a bone stock transmission with over 100,000 miles no it and doesn't even use a trans cooler. Driving it around you cannot tell the difference from the stock converter.

nick harmon

@ a big tranny cooler. lol, ok, i give up. im only stating my opinion on the subject. im of that opinion because it has been MY experience that they more often then not, hurt performance rather than enhance it. this is MY experience. ive only noticably benifited from them on one vehicle, my truck. the cars i have tried them in didnt respond well. maybe it was due to their high rear gears, and low duration cams, maybe they had too high of a stall speed, i dunno. but hey, to each his own.

TKOPerformance

See, 88IROC350TPI did that right. He posted the specifics, rather than just saying it works or it doesn't.

I can respect saying that it didn't work for you, but what were the circumstances?

Those are the kinds of posts that really help people with no prior knowledge make an informed decision.

ploegi

178,000 miles on stock tranny (700R4) Still does everything like it is supposed. But, I don't drag race, it may see 120MPH on the toll roads on occasion though........ (late at night, no traffic, I want to live to a ripe old age. Those kinds of speeds in any kind of traffic is a good way to shorten your life span.... Dramatically.)