white89_350

I just got done with the A4 transgo rebuild and I have only 1st and reverse and park. I did the TV adjustment. I have done the TV adjustment in the past too for other reason. Is there anything you all would know. As far as the govenor I did not see any plastic gear in there and the Transgo video did not mention it either. I have an 89 formula 350 w/ 700R4 tranny. Could I have hooked something up wrong as far as the cables and not noticed it easily?

Electron_Blue

check the vacumn line that goes from the tranny...mine is hooked to my intake maifold

white89_350

I'll look, but I don't think that will be the problem. I don't remember that vacuum line existing.

AaronIROCZ

iTrader: (5)

The reason you don"t remember a vacumm line is because there isn't one. Correct me if I am wrong but I read that there is not a plastic gear on your governor?? If this is the case then that is your problem, your trans had no idea how fast it is going and that would be the reason that you have no 2nd through 4th. Go to a local trans shop or dealer and get another one, or better yet find out why it is missing, it could be still in the trans.

white89_350

I do not think I opened the govenor. I was thinking of the 2nd Servo. Sorry.

JP84Z430HP

How was everything before installing the transgo kit? Was there a particular problem you were installing the kit to solve? Also, how fast did you get it going in first? Did you get it going fast enough to get it to go into third in case it is skipping second? Beyond getting answers to these questions for more detail, I can't think of anything right off without getting the information I have at work.

One last thing.....Did you get the No Yo-Yo, Sysko cal kit, or the Shift Kit Jr?

white89_350

Transgo Performance Shift kit. Not any pobs other than I got the kit along with the Vigilante Converter as a package deal. Once I got the torque converter in the car it would slip going in between gear shifts.

ZaphodB

I have just finished my Transgo shiftkit installation too, and guess what? My tranny also only has 1 st gear, reverse and park now

SSC

Could be stuck valves but it sounds like you guys did not put the check ***** back in the proper locations. That will cause all kinds of problems. Also might wanna check the pressure regulator valve to see if the C clip is in the 1st or second grove, its supposed to be in the 2nd grove up in the case it also may have been reassembled improperly butthis will most likely cause no reverse . So many different minor things can cause what your tranny's are doing and since it shifted fine before the kit you need to double check everything you did to it.
A TV cable will cause late or no shift so will the internal part of that the throttle valve linkage.

This is where its nice to have opted for the $8 drain plug.

ZaphodB

I did remember to install a drain plug, because I realized that something *might* go wrong - i.e Murphy's Law.....

I don't have the installation guide here right now, left it in the garage with the car, this may sound stupid, but which one is the pressure regulator valve. Maybe you mean the boost valve, located next to the solenoid?

I checked the TV linkage before I put the pan back, but maybe something funny with the shift linkage could cause this?

What about the checkballs? One of the original checkballs was larger than the others, but they did not say anything about this in the instructions... Do you know where the larger one is supposed to go?

SSC

Oppostite side of the dipstick tube in left side of the case is where the PRV is located. Depending on the year of your transmission the check ***** goes in different locations so its hard to say. The large copper check ball goes into the little bump out above the throttle valve linkage. If I can scan these pics small enough I will post them.

ZaphodB

I have been out at the garage today and doublechecked everything over again.

Do you have any pictures or can you try to describe where the checkballs should go?

Also, have you seen any case where one of the checkballs is larger than the other ones?

I placed the larger one next to the 4:th accumulator housing if that might shed some light on my tranny problems.

One of mine was larger than the other 5 ones. I am worried that this might be part of my problem...

My valvebody is of the 2:nd type, and according to the install guide I should have 2 checkballs in the VB and four on the separator plate.

The C clip is in the second groove, checked that also today...

The TV cable is attached and properly adjusted, and the shifter cable is also connected properly.

What exactly is the internal part of the throttle valve linkage?

Do you mean the TV linkage inside the tranny or is there a third wire linkage besides the TV linkage and shifter linkage inside the tranny?

Could a too-loose 2:nd/4:th band adjustment cause the tranny to not shift at all, or would it shift and slip bad only?

ZaphodB

Are we talking about the reverse encapsulated checkball? Is this bumb where it's supposed to go close to where the accumulator housing is supposed to go?

That large ball currently resides on upper side of the separator plate next to the 4:th accumulator housing.

Some scanned pics would be great, you can email them in normal quality if you like, I am on DSL and my mailserver sits at an ISP with a 100 Mbit fibre connect.

(Help me figure this one out and I'll give you a free mail account/www server space with almost no storage limit on it. You can have *@area51.cc or *@*.area51.cc as your mailaddress).

JP84Z430HP

I can't rememeber the exact purpose of the larger copper colored checkball, but I do know that it is not necessary. I have been told this by others, and I have left it out in the past.

As for the checkballs being in the wrong locations, I think I remember when I was having troubles before, I talked to Pro-Built, and he said that they would only make it shift hard because the accumulators wouldn't do their job.

It really sounds like you have a valve installed incorrectly somewhere. I would look at the TV valve-train. it's on the side opposite the manual control valve in the valvebody.

I'll have to bring my paperwork home tomorrow to be able to help much more.

white89_350

This all is identical to my problem. I did not use the large check ball.

Also could the 2nd servo cover be to tight and cause any problems. I had to take out a large and small washer to just get the cover in with the clip. Now the cover will not press in if trying to take out the clip and before it would slightly press in when using leverage from a long screw driver.

ZaphodB

Thanks, I'd really appreciate that, right now I have no idea as to why things are the way the are

I was real acreful to check all the new valvetrains installed in the VB, but it can't hurt to check them once more.

I found part of a service manual for the 700R4 on the net:

http://www.bernd-hoffmann.com/Mein_U..._getriebe.html
http://www.bernd-hoffmann.com/Mein_U.../700-R4_36.jpg
http://www.bernd-hoffmann.com/Mein_U.../700-R4_37.jpg

If you look at picture 37 I have checkballs in locations 1 and 3.

On the plate I have checkballs in the following locations according to picture 36 of the service manual:

Pictures say more than a 1000 words, checkballs marked with red on these two pictures. (Also inverted the spacerplate so that it will be easier to compare to the install manual).

http://www.area51.cc/~zaphodb/IROCZ/...checkballs.jpg
http://www.area51.cc/~zaphodb/IROCZ/...checkballs.jpg

The checkball that was larger than the others has been installed in the upper right corner of pic 37, near the accumulator.

Okay, I think I *might* have found out something after reading thru some other posts regarding checkballs. I am positive that the I have placed the VB exhaust ball (that was the only one larger than the others!)

Where I *should* have placed one of the new checkballs included in the kit.

Could this large ball alone cause all of the above problems?

Reason I missed this is probably because this ball is not mentioned anywhere in the install guide, and I thought the extra ***** were not to be used unless you had a tranny that originally had fewer *****....

Maybe I should add that 1:st gear works in both the 1,2,D and OD positions, so that makes me suspect the 2-4 band adjustment even more.

I have removed 2 thick washers, leaving 1 thick washer and three thin washers on the 2-4 servo assembly.

SSC

You need all the check *****!!!!!! It certainly can prevent shifting having them out or improperly installed. I'll scan the pictures tonight VB side and case side so you guys can take you pic of whats the easyest way to go.

ZaphodB

I have all of them, problem is probably that the VB exhaust valve 5/16 has been used in the checkball location near the accumulator, instead of a regular 1/4 inch ball, and that my 2-4 band clearance is too big....

GMTech

You don't really need checkball numbered "1". If you did the TransGo 700-2&3 kit, then you were to block that off. Its hole "F" in the TransGo instructions. Its not going to hurt anything behing there, but for future reference, its not needed.

As far as the band clearance, if you read the directions carefully, you were supposed to remove washers untill the band would wiggle, THEN remove one more thin washwer.

The large checkball that was put in by the accumulator assemblies needs to be thrown out and replaced with the 1/4" checkball.

ZaphodB

Okay, I think I know what to do now. Obviously I have removed too many washers and used a checkball of the wrong size by the accumulator.

I'll try fixing those mistakes and see if it makes any difference. If not I'll look over the complete install and get back to you and tell you exactly what I have done and see if you can find anything wrong with the procedure.

Thanks for trying to help me out, this is my first time trying to work on the transmission!

GMTech

Just out of curiosity, you didn't stick the Governer Spring on the Governer, did you? Honestly, I think TransGo should make several sets of instructions: Stick shift 1st design, Stick shift 2nd design, automatic first design and automatic 2nd design. Then you could identify your valvebody, pick your option (stick shift or automatic) and throw the rest in the trash. All four varieties are mixed together and its easy to overlook or miss something that was/was not for you.

ArrioZ28

On the 2004R if you pulled the intermediate servo (side servo) out of the case, chances are good that the band slipped back. When reinstalling the servo assembly, 8 times out of 10, if you don't push the band back around, the pin will miss the band. Thus you will not have second or anything above that.

ZaphodB

Good point there! Approximately how much will the band move if the pin does not engage into the band?

Because I thought it felt a bit strange.....

ZaphodB

I never opened the casing for the governor, since that part of the install guide said stick shift only....

I have the second type VB, exactly the install they decsribe in the video tape they included in the kit.

Could the scenario that Arrio described in his post be what I have done?

Anyway, if I get everything right I think I'll try to type up some kind of FAQ about what not to do, since I realize that there might be others doing the very same mistakes that I have done.

white89_350

How do you push the band back around?

ZaphodB

Is there anything more than the servo pin that holds the band in place that can get loose when disassembling the 2-4 servo?

Because I think the problem is definitively related to the 2-4 servo/2-4 band....

http://www.area51.cc/~zaphodb/IROCZ/700r4/700-R4_40.jpg

Figure 2 is the 2-4 band assembly, are you refering to the pin to the lower left of the band or is it that the servo pin has missed the hole in the upper part of the band that might be what has happened?

ArrioZ28

The case band retaining pin is not the problem. That usually stays put. The servo pin usually misses the band. The band would move just enough that the pin would hit the lip that is formed on the band, and most often slips to the other side. When reinstalling the servo and pin assembly with the pan off, you should be able to see the band from the other side of the case bottom near the shift selector shaft. Push the band around an hold it secure as you are able with your fingers or a tool (screwdriver etc.) A long strip of metel like a long feeler gage could also be slipped between the case and the band to push the band around. You need to push the band toward the servo. Then push in the servo assembly. The servo only needs to go in part way to catch the band. If you have an assistant this would be better, then you would be able to verify the the band is being drawn up by the servo pin while it is still being held by hand.
Also, you should able to verify that the band is not secure when you drop the pan by checking the band tention where it visible from the other side
Hope this is clear enough and helps. and that this fixes your no-shift problem.

ZaphodB

It probably will, I have been looking thru everything I did, comparing it over and over again against the install guide, and tomorrow I am going to disassemble the tranny again and see if things are the way I suspect they are.

Will get back to you after I've been to the garage.

I really appreciate all the help I get from the people here at thirdgen.org - Because there are always areas that one is less familiar with. I know electronics, but have never taken a tranny apart before trying to install the shiftkit.

JP84Z430HP

HITHERE don't recall reading an answer to my question of whether or not you could get it to skip second. Anytime HITHERE've had HITHERE band issue, HITHERE was able to run it up in speed then let off and it would hit third gear.

If you do indeed have HITHERE band engagement issue, You really need to pull the servo back out. HITHERE've had trouble with torn seals from installation errors (HITHERE'm not perfect!) It sounds like you had difficulties getting the servo back in, therefore HITHERE would suspect this is your problem. In fact, that is the reason that HITHERE keep some extra cover HITHERE-rings on hand at the shop!

As HITHERE side note, HITHERE had HITHERE blazer with HITHERE 4L60HITHERE come in at the shop once that the complaint was no reverse. Well, HITHERE drove the thing before tearing into, and found that it indeed did not have reverse, and it also didn't have second or fourth! (Broken reaction shell.) HITHERE'm not saying this could be your problem though, because you do have reverse!

ZaphodB

Thats because HITHERE haven't tried it yet. HITHERE want to have HITHERE look at all the possibilities suggested so far first.

(To minimize the risk of creating new problems!)

At what speed should third kick in when HITHERE let off?

JP84Z430HP

Ah, ok. HITHERE totally understand. Most of the time when HITHERE run into this type of situation, it is right after finishing am overhaul, and HITHERE'm usually mad enough that HITHERE would rather it mess something up bad so that HITHERE can start from square one! LOL. Kidding.....HITHERE would rather save it, it's almost always less time wasted to fix, rather than start over! Man, it sucks to only have HITHERE couple years under your belt rather than 5 or 10!

Anyway, now that your eyes hurt from reading my B.S....

Most 700's can be in fourth, locked up at around 40 MPH, so HITHERE would think that about 20 MPH then let off should get you third if it is HITHERE band issue. However, HITHERE do agree with your approach to make sure first! When HITHERE take one out, HITHERE have about .2 miles of driveway to get past at low speed, then HITHERE need to get it up to speed, so HITHERE usually do that "First to third" test by default.

Continue to keep us updated, the more detail the better in your descriptions, the more help we can give (It has been HITHERE great amount of detail thus far!)

Now, on to getting my engine installed this weekend! Finally, after 2 1/2 years! LOL

ZaphodB

I corrected the checkball that I accidentally used the TV exhaust ball for (5/16"), and replaced it with a normal 1/4" ball and sent the 5/16" ball where it should go.

But I found something more.... The 3-2 valve, I accidentally put the smaller one in there because it was a pretty tight fit, but it turns out I should have the bigger one, because they say they bigger one should be used *if* it fits. And it does fit and move freely.

I used both small valve and small endplug, so the tranny was probably loosing pressure for some parts of the system.

I hope this was it, if not I'll take another close look at the 2-4 band again, haven't re-disassembled that yet.

Going to go taken a shower now, to get all tranny fluid off myself, then go back out and put the pan back and fill it up.

The 2-4 band does seem okay, it doesn't move more than they say it should, manual says between 1/16" and 3/16" should be ok, and this I estimate to be like 4 mm and 3/16"=4.76 mm.

Maybe one thin washer has to go but it could be okay.

SSC

ZaphodB, Sorry I couldent get you the pic's soon enough I tried to email them monday night to find out today the email addres I tried sending them to was incorrect and the messgae was sent back. I sent it again today since these pics are easy to understand and if you could post links for other TGO members for future refrence I'm sure it would be appreciated by everyone.

Again sorry but glad to hear things are finnaly getting in shape with your car.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Anybody have any idea what would cause reverse and neutral not to work? Every gear except park seems to be a drive gear. It was late, and I do remember the shift linkage was difficult to put on (binding)...please tell me thats all I did wrong! I really don't want to have to tear it all apart again.

BTW anyone have Trans Gos # handy?

ZaphodB

Thanks for the pictures you mailed me, here are links to them for others that may need them...

Checkball locations for most models of TH700R4:
http://www.area51.cc/~zaphodb/IROCZ/...eckballs01.jpg
http://www.area51.cc/~zaphodb/IROCZ/...eckballs02.jpg

Part of scanned 700R4 service manual:
http://www.area51.cc/~zaphodb/IROCZ/700r4/

I have found some mistakes I have done, though something remains, because I still only have 1:st and reverse.

I am thinking about the pressure regulator now, because if I jack the rear of the car up and put it in gear it seems to shift. If it shifts when the transmission is not under load, it sounds like its either not getting enough pressure to the servo or maybe I still have an issue with the 2-4 band.

But then again, shouldn't it skip into 3:rd if I accelerate to like 20 mph?

It was a tight fit, so maybe some part of it got stuck?

Unless my IROC does 60 miles/hour in 1:st, which sounds very unlikely.

How much transmission fluid did you have to add when you installed a shift kit in your car, they specify much more in the install guide than what goes into the transmission.

After dropping the oilpan and valvebody and putting everything back together the stick showed full after approximately 4-4.5 litres of fluid, while the install guide says add 6 quarts, then start the engine and immediately add 2 more quarts.

I am afraid to overfill it, since the stick shows full after what I've added, and the level doesn't drop even after going back and forth thru the gears a couple of times.

ArrioZ28

Somehow I got the idea that you were working with a 2004R, and I was wondering why other posters were referancing the 700R4. Well, I went back and reread your first post and to my embarrasment saw that you indeed had a 700R4. My appologies if I sent you astray on your troubleshooting process. The 700R4 almost never loses the band when the servo is pulled. There are two tabs on the end of the band that lock it in position in the case and prevents the band from sliding back past the pin.
The 2004R does not have these tabs and the band is able to slide back past the pin if the servo assembly is withdrawn from the case.

The Copper check ball that is located under the TV belcrank pin is for emergency safeguards. Should the TV cable break and not be able to increase the line presure, that copper (somtimes steel) ball prevents the line presure from venting from the backside of the TV valve, and creates constant high line presure saving the transmission from being burned up from trying to drive with low line presure. What would happen if the cable broke or became extremly loose is this. From the first startup the trans may shift up 123 but usually no fourth. The line presure would build up because the copper ball is blocking the release from the back side of the TV valve. Subsequent upshift attemts will not occur as the line presure would be too great to allow a 1-2 shift. If you shut the engine and restarted the engine the same sequence would occur. This is another reason why proper TV cable adjustment are nessesary. Some people and rebuilders remove them thinking they are an unesesary item.

(edited for clarity /spelling)

ArrioZ28

If you have already had the trans filled to the correct level before you dropped the pan, then you would have only drained 4 or 5 quarts. Approximatly half the fluid capacity will remain in the sytem, i.e torque converter, clutch packs, accumulators, radiator cooler. So after you put the pan back up just refill as nessary to obtain the correct level on the dipstick. Like I said, it will only be about 4 or 5 quarts.

white89_350

I am still lost and I think there is an easy answer to my question somewhere out there(very 1st post). There has got to be somone who has had this problem and resolved it. I do not want what it MAY be the problem I want to know what the hell is going wrong.I followed the directions EXACTLY. Can this be a prboblem with the TV boost sticking?

ArrioZ28

I have question about your TV bellcrank that mounts to the valve body. Does it have a pin on it that pushes the copper check ball off the seat? (edit: some TV bellcranks did not have a pin) If the pin is not there an you installed the copper 5/16th checkball, then you will only get 1st and reverse. It may try to shift at first, then it will stop shifting.
A stuck TV valve could also be the problem as it could be holding in high TV presure.
To determine if your line presure is going high and preventing an upshift, a presure gage with a range up to about 180lbs can be hooked up to a presure port on the front left side of the case. Normal idle presure in drive should be near 60lbs. and should increase to about 120lbs with throttle.(Yes, I know, most folks don't have one of them laying about in their garages.)
Sorry I/we can't find the definitive ansere for you. To be sure, I wish I did have all the right solutions.

white89_350

How can the TV get stuck. Doesn't the TV cable pull the TV out when stepping on the accelerator or is the TV not returning properly to original position. I hope I am thinking about the same thing I am writng so we are not confusing each other.

white89_350

oh. I can't answer your question since I have the Transmision pan hooked on. I do not want to take off the pan until I have an idea of what could be the problem. It sure is a messy job. Should I go ahead and take off the pan?

white89_350

While I am thinking about it is there anyway for the 2nd servo cover be to tight? Mine is so tight I can't get the cover to move in and out with a screw drver over the top wedgeing down on the cover. I just barely got the c clip to go in to its groove that will keep the cover on the 2nd servo in place. The kit has you take out a spring in the servo and replace it with 6 washers and the video says you may have to take 1 or 2 out to get the servo cover back on. I had to take 2 washers out to just barely get the cover back on and c clip in place. Posibly to tight?

SSC

That I know for a FACT is an improperly installed pressure regulator valve because I had the same symptoms with my 1st SK install. Stupid directions dont give enough deatail!

ArrioZ28

Yes it is possible to get the cover/servo too tight. You should be able to depress the cover approximatly 1/8 inch futher than the C-clip position. That is the amount of freeplay needed to allow the servo to release the band.

The TV boost valve is depressed (increased presure) when the throttle is increased. If the valve is stuck in the bottom of the bore, then you would have high line presure and extremly late shifts (if it shifted at all).
There is two portions of the TV valve that could stick. The first and most common to stick is the small steel valve in the bottom of the bore. Then the outer valve that has an aluminum sleeve, sticks out of the transmission and contacts the TV bellcrank. When rebuilding the 700R4 a small light presure "anti-stick" spring is placed on the small steel valve towards the bottom of the bore to help push back the valve..

white89_350

Thanks. I will now take out another washer in the 2nd servo. I do not have any play on the cover as is. I will repost thurs. with my results. Again thank you very much. I am really glad for your willingness to help.

JP84Z430HP

Ya know, these issues seem to me that there is a problem with the TV valve-train. The last SK I installed ran fine for about a week, then it came back with a late shift complaint (luckily it was a friend, not an irate customer!), I re-adjusted the TV cable, then drove it for about 2 miles. By the time I got it back to the shop, the valve must've popped back loose. It's been fine ever since!

The TV system looks like where you need to look.

Oh, I would be more likely to condemn the small valve all the way in the bottom of the bore than the outer one!

white89_350

When I put the TV boost together it seemed that the small piece was a little sticky and had a hard time moving in and out of the exterior piece. Do you think driving around awhile might un stick it?

ArrioZ28

Usually if the valve was installed with a nice smooth movement, then stuck during test drive it would be a possibility to unhang the valve with more driving and twanging the TV cable. In this instance where the valve was installed being bound up or not completely free, it is unlikely that driving will unhang the valve.
So I guess you know what this means........

ZaphodB

No it's a 700R4... The 5/16 ball is back in the exhaust location, and I have checked that I have the pin that should move the ball when the TV linkage is setup properly, and it does move it up...

About the TV valvetrain, how does it act when stuck? I had the VB down yesterday and took a closer look at the TV valvetrain, and both parts seems to move in both directions.

I now know that I have all the ***** where they belong, I have replaced the 3-2 valve with the correct part (used to small one on a VB that required the larger one first!).

Could my problem be that some part of the TV boost valve / pressure regulator assembly got stuck? I am going to try to borrow a line pressure gauge today, because I think finding out where I have pressure is vital to further troubleshooting...

white89_350

I can not get the bolt off the tranny for checking the pressure. Is it on the driver side toward the top of the tranny?