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Is it a nice car? Because if it's in nice condition, it'll retain it's value best if it's left alone. You're not going to get a TPI car into modern performance car 'street cred' without hacking the car up and potentially lowering the value. If it's just a beater, I'd still consider that a 1LE has a certain collector tax associated with it, that make it more valuable if it's left alone. However, if you're bound and determined to go faster with that particular car, the mods that will actually give you a seat-of-the-pants boost will be relatively significant. Look at things like headers and a nice free-flowing exhaust, an intake other than TPI (miniram, stealthram, 4bbl), Heads/Cam/Intake (intake other than TPI). If you really want to kick it up a notch, look at an LS1 swap. I hate to make suggestions like pitching the TPI on the shelf, but realistically if you don't have serious hardcore TPI nostalgia, you're probably going to be disappointed with the results of any mod-fest.
If you didn't get the jist of much of the thread, the "free mods" (I can barely think "free mods" with a straight face) really don't add up to anything meaningful. They do succeed in hacking up a car and opening it to potential issues, like having a flat tire at 2am without a spare since it's at home in the garage, or showing up to your destination with you and your date soaked in sweat because A/C is for *****'s, or smelling like exhaust byproducts because catalytic converters are for *****'s. They won't make you go much faster, but you'll sure experience the negatives.
It kind of comes down to the idea of a street car, and a race car. Obviously a race car is a specialized tool that doesn't have to do anything well but win races. A street car has to function as reliable transportation. Somewhere in the middle the two can briefly pass in the night, but neither will do the job the other does as well as the other. Wouldn't he enjoy the car more if it's something he can actually drive instead of the 'bitchin' Camaro' that spends more time on jackstands in the garage than driving around? Sheesh, when I was in highschool I drove an 83 Camaro with an LG4, I couldn't dream of a 92 TPI car. Most of the cars my friends drove were equally slow. One friend looks back with fondness on a 2.5L 5spd 92 S10 with zero options, vinyl bench seat, and rubber floor mat. I guess the point is that the car doesn't have to be thrilling and spectacular to be the subject of nostalgic memories.
Is it a nice car? Because if it's in nice condition, it'll retain it's value best if it's left alone. You're not going to get a TPI car into modern performance car 'street cred' without hacking the car up and potentially lowering the value. If it's just a beater, I'd still consider that a 1LE has a certain collector tax associated with it, that make it more valuable if it's left alone. However, if you're bound and determined to go faster with that particular car, the mods that will actually give you a seat-of-the-pants boost will be relatively significant. Look at things like headers and a nice free-flowing exhaust, an intake other than TPI (miniram, stealthram, 4bbl), Heads/Cam/Intake (intake other than TPI). If you really want to kick it up a notch, look at an LS1 swap. I hate to make suggestions like pitching the TPI on the shelf, but realistically if you don't have serious hardcore TPI nostalgia, you're probably going to be disappointed with the results of any mod-fest.
If you didn't get the jist of much of the thread, the "free mods" (I can barely think "free mods" with a straight face) really don't add up to anything meaningful. They do succeed in hacking up a car and opening it to potential issues, like having a flat tire at 2am without a spare since it's at home in the garage, or showing up to your destination with you and your date soaked in sweat because A/C is for *****'s, or smelling like exhaust byproducts because catalytic converters are for *****'s. They won't make you go much faster, but you'll sure experience the negatives.
It kind of comes down to the idea of a street car, and a race car. Obviously a race car is a specialized tool that doesn't have to do anything well but win races. A street car has to function as reliable transportation. Somewhere in the middle the two can briefly pass in the night, but neither will do the job the other does as well as the other. Wouldn't he enjoy the car more if it's something he can actually drive instead of the 'bitchin' Camaro' that spends more time on jackstands in the garage than driving around? Sheesh, when I was in highschool I drove an 83 Camaro with an LG4, I couldn't dream of a 92 TPI car. Most of the cars my friends drove were equally slow. One friend looks back with fondness on a 2.5L 5spd 92 S10 with zero options, vinyl bench seat, and rubber floor mat. I guess the point is that the car doesn't have to be thrilling and spectacular to be the subject of nostalgic memories.
So with my reading coming to an end and my son and I scratching head and nether areas we are still wondering what to do with our 92 1LE TPI. It is my sons first car and we are not planning on him going to the track but after a yr of driving and no tickets or wrecks I would like to bump up the motor for his senior year. I am trying to find threads on the cutting of the airbox, I did something like that on my 05 Magnum RT and it worked nice with the C.A.I. Is there an actual thread with proven mods? At LXFORUMS.com they have a list of mods that were tested at the same time on the dyno and air strip. All the vendors tried out their products, the best one was a member named REVrand Hammer and he made a cold air out of pvc parts that outdid 400 dollar cold airs! This is a great site and I thank you all for helping out my son and I with our resto!
Porting the plenum and either adding an AFPR or learning how to burn your own chips will deliver good results, complementing the ram air effect. Below is a link with pictures showing a ported plenum. There's a lot of other really good information on his sight, especially dealing with burning your own chips. https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/buildup/plenum/
Here's a picture from that group showing the EGR dam removed -
Just those mods and a good exhaust system will really wake up a TPI car without causing any damage to the value of anything except a cherry low mileage car. Plus, you could cruise eBay and find a donor box to cut up and keep your stock one and any of the rest of the stock parts you replace as far as that goes.
Here's a link to mods posted here in the "How To" section.
<snip>
Just those mods and a good exhaust system will really wake up a TPI car
Those mods won't do jack ****. That's the point. You can hack up all the air boxes, gut all the cats, and stick as many Radio Shack resistors into the MAT plug that you want, and you're not going to shave a full second off the quarter time of a reasonably well equipped TPI car. They're the kind of things that are cheap and easy, and they make you feel good that you're doing something, but they don't add up to anything in the real world. You would need the worlds most perfect strip conditions, or a dyno to see any measured difference, and it'd still be miniscule.
Bingo! He would completely be wasting his time, as well as devaluing his third gen. I just don't understand what some of our members are thinking when they mention mods like that, it does absolutely nothing. I have taken my GTA down the track with no hood at all, and the ET and trap speed remained the same, so guys looking to cut their hoods to draw in more air are just wasting their time. If people want results,I mean real results, then put your money where it counts. Stall speed converter if it's an automatic w/TPI and around 2400 stall (stock couples at 1500-RPM), gears, camshaft, and tune. You will feel one hell of a difference without the need of ruining your F-Body with little gimmicks that..... do..... not.... work. Here's a tip guys, the reason why "cold" is good is because of the bin, timing get's retarded when increased temps are detected when feedback is being looped, this is why Open Loop drives so much better than Closed Loop, it's in the tune. It's amusing when members can drive to the store on a hot day, shut the engine off for a minute or two to grab something, come back in, start it up and she pulls very good, gets to nearest stop light a few minutes later, someone pulls up wanting to play, light turns green, your F-Body feels like it is running slower, and they immediately tell themselves it's because it is hot. It's not that. It's the bin. The difference in Injector Duty Cycle between ambient temperature and an IAT reading of 125 degrees is not as much as you may think, and if IAT temps bother you, then simply invest in a bird caged IAT sensor from a V6 and relocate it before the throttle body. Or, just change it in the tune and keep your stock heat soaked CTS posing as an IAT, makes no damn difference.
According to him, exhaust and the airbox mod will shave a full second off? Imagine if this guy did that AND more??
Hell,
I remember watching Clint Eastwood (not the actor), run his bone stock G92 T5 Iroc at Phil McCracken raceway to the tune of 11.89 @171. No mods, he just iced the intake after his first run (14.5@91).
You would be amazed what a 14 dollar harbor freight dremel kit, and a bag o' ice from your local gas station will do to these cars. And no, don't ask me for videos or dyno slips. I have told you people time and time again, recording equipment will fry a TPI ECM right on the spot. Dyno sheets are impossible as well, since an iced down TPI will literally disintegrate a dyno wheel on the spot.
And I haven't even mentioned royal purple lubricants yet. Witnessed first hand, via satellite, a close friend shave 2.1 seconds off his ET, and add 61MPH to his trap speed with a FULL royal purple lubricant package.....
Is it a nice car? Because if it's in nice condition, it'll retain it's value best if it's left alone. You're not going to get a TPI car into modern performance car 'street cred' without hacking the car up and potentially lowering the value. If it's just a beater, I'd still consider that a 1LE has a certain collector tax associated with it, that make it more valuable if it's left alone. However, if you're bound and determined to go faster with that particular car, the mods that will actually give you a seat-of-the-pants boost will be relatively significant. Look at things like headers and a nice free-flowing exhaust, an intake other than TPI (miniram, stealthram, 4bbl), Heads/Cam/Intake (intake other than TPI). If you really want to kick it up a notch, look at an LS1 swap. I hate to make suggestions like pitching the TPI on the shelf, but realistically if you don't have serious hardcore TPI nostalgia, you're probably going to be disappointed with the results of any mod-fest.
If you didn't get the jist of much of the thread, the "free mods" (I can barely think "free mods" with a straight face) really don't add up to anything meaningful. They do succeed in hacking up a car and opening it to potential issues, like having a flat tire at 2am without a spare since it's at home in the garage, or showing up to your destination with you and your date soaked in sweat because A/C is for *****'s, or smelling like exhaust byproducts because catalytic converters are for *****'s. They won't make you go much faster, but you'll sure experience the negatives.
It kind of comes down to the idea of a street car, and a race car. Obviously a race car is a specialized tool that doesn't have to do anything well but win races. A street car has to function as reliable transportation. Somewhere in the middle the two can briefly pass in the night, but neither will do the job the other does as well as the other. Wouldn't he enjoy the car more if it's something he can actually drive instead of the 'bitchin' Camaro' that spends more time on jackstands in the garage than driving around? Sheesh, when I was in highschool I drove an 83 Camaro with an LG4, I couldn't dream of a 92 TPI car. Most of the cars my friends drove were equally slow. One friend looks back with fondness on a 2.5L 5spd 92 S10 with zero options, vinyl bench seat, and rubber floor mat. I guess the point is that the car doesn't have to be thrilling and spectacular to be the subject of nostalgic memories.
Thank you for your help! We have a 92 Z28 TPI 5.7 with 94k miles that we are restoring for a dailey for my sons first car. He will drive the 99 tahoe we restored in the winter (we live in Oh). No racing but would like the seat of the pants speedometer to be a small pucker factor for him. The first owner was hard on her, the drive shaft was supposed to be aluminum and have 3.73 gears according to the RPO codes. We put 2.73 so he doesn't have quite the 0 ta 60 fun factor till his senior yr if he is a good boy!😁 Our main goal is to make it to where it can breathe easier and have some performance but we have no inclination of taking it to a strip or doing Fast and Furious. Thank you again for any direction you might give us to make this a great first car!
Those mods won't do jack ****. That's the point. You can hack up all the air boxes, gut all the cats, and stick as many Radio Shack resistors into the MAT plug that you want, and you're not going to shave a full second off the quarter time of a reasonably well equipped TPI car. They're the kind of things that are cheap and easy, and they make you feel good that you're doing something, but they don't add up to anything in the real world. You would need the worlds most perfect strip conditions, or a dyno to see any measured difference, and it'd still be miniscule.
Actually it wouldn't be miniscule. You can shave a full second off any V8 3rd gen relatively easily. I shaved 1/2 second off a L03 305 TBI car by putting a 3.27 geared 9-bolt in the car, subframe connectors and lca relocation. A full exhaust system, bumped fuel pressure and timing made the cars ET drop about 6 tenths. Then I came back and added 1.6:1 full roller rockers and a used Edelbrock 3704 intake with a L69 air cleaner assembly. Making it able to hook and getting the engine into its powerband more quickly was worth a substantial drop in the 60 ft time. Once the car was able to breathe in the higher rpm ranges it came alive.
you're not going to shave a full second off the quarter time of a reasonably well equipped TPI car.
Originally Posted by Fast355
I shaved 1/2 second off a L03 305 TBI car by putting a 3.27 geared 9-bolt in the car, subframe connectors and lca relocation.
Dearest Apples,
It's been so long since we stayed up all night enjoying each other's company. We should really get together and catch up sometime.
Sincerely,
Oranges
Yeah, making a 17 second slug into a 16 second slug is not quite the same as making a 14.5 car run 13.5. This isn't the TBI board. This isn't the 'TBI go fast tips and tricks' thread. WTF yo?
Those mods won't do jack ****. That's the point. You can hack up all the air boxes, gut all the cats, and stick as many Radio Shack resistors into the MAT plug that you want, and you're not going to shave a full second off the quarter time of a reasonably well equipped TPI car. They're the kind of things that are cheap and easy, and they make you feel good that you're doing something, but they don't add up to anything in the real world. You would need the worlds most perfect strip conditions, or a dyno to see any measured difference, and it'd still be miniscule.
I think all those little mods add up. 1or 2 horsepower plus 1or 2 horsepower plus 1or 2 horsepower add up.
Removing the EGR wall will also get you a few hundred extra usable RPM up top on a 305, which isn't as restricted by runner size as a 350.
In thirdgen lore, a K&N filter is 5-15hp. TPIS claims 7hp for a throttlebody airfoil. Hypertech says the thermomaster is worth 15hp. So I've bolted on 37hp in a sunday afternoon. 37+235=272hp. Look out LT1s I'ma coming for YOU! Fast forward a few weeks... "Guy's whys my 383 so slow?"
In thirdgen lore, a K&N filter is 5-15hp. TPIS claims 7hp for a throttlebody airfoil. Hypertech says the thermomaster is worth 15hp. So I've bolted on 37hp in a sunday afternoon. 37+235=272hp. Look out LT1s I'ma coming for YOU! Fast forward a few weeks... "Guy's whys my 383 so slow?"
Yeah, those may have been claims back in the day. Maybe that claimed 15 actually adds 3 or that claimed 7 is actually 1. My point is that if you add a few of these together, perhaps you get another 10 or 12 HP or so in total. Not much by today's standards, but on a 220-ish horsepower car, it made a difference.
If we go by internet lore, 10hp is 1 tenth of a second in the 1/4. Can your butt feel .1 of a second in the quarter? Because mine can't.
Every modification I made to my Mustang added about 50hp. You can feel 50hp. TPI cars just don't respond like that unless it's nitrous, or a power adder, or you change the intake manifold.
Yeah, those may have been claims back in the day. Maybe that claimed 15 actually adds 3 or that claimed 7 is actually 1. My point is that if you add a few of these together, perhaps you get another 10 or 12 HP or so in total. Not much by today's standards, but on a 220-ish horsepower car, it made a difference.
i can tell you this, i could feel full exhaust and timing mods difference on my L98 car. But i felt a bigger difference in gears and torque converter. I also definitely felt a big difference in holley stealth ram swap over stock tpi
Doesnt matter if you can feel it or not. I’l Take .1 drop on my slip any day of the week
Butt, uh...
Originally Posted by rushtk
We have a 92 Z28 TPI 5.7 <snip> my sons first car. <snip> No racing but would like the seat of the pants speedometer to be a small pucker factor for him.
Not gonna notice in those conditions. But you might notice a vacuum leak from a gasket that didn't seal just right, or not being able to drive the car for a week or two because we're trying to get the busted bolt out of the plenum we didn't really need to port, or any other number of unknown problems that could potentially occur while trying to do the stupid "free mods".
More people screw up a perfectly good car trying to do retarded **** that ain't going to stack up to anything on the street.
Thank you for your help! We have a 92 Z28 TPI 5.7 with 94k miles that we are restoring for a dailey for my sons first car. He will drive the 99 tahoe we restored in the winter (we live in Oh). No racing but would like the seat of the pants speedometer to be a small pucker factor for him. The first owner was hard on her, the drive shaft was supposed to be aluminum and have 3.73 gears according to the RPO codes. We put 2.73 so he doesn't have quite the 0 ta 60 fun factor till his senior yr if he is a good boy!😁 Our main goal is to make it to where it can breathe easier and have some performance but we have no inclination of taking it to a strip or doing Fast and Furious. Thank you again for any direction you might give us to make this a great first car!
In stock trim, with no mods, and so-so tires, that car should be able to lay down a pretty impressive launch from a dead stop. Around town, on highway on ramps, and so on it's going to be good for smiles per hour. If he catches the bug and really wants to go FAST, skip all the BS and look at the cars on the forum that actually ARE fast. Aside from the rare few, they aren't TPI cars. Either follow in their footsteps, or put 100hp shot of nitrous to it, and run it at the track. It won't hurt anything that isn't already hurting, and it'll probably run a respectable time. Leave an empty bottle in the car when not at the track, and the friends will be more impressed by the pile of timeslips in the console, glass chalk numbers on the windows, and the blue bottle - than they'd ever be by seeing the car upside down in a field after losing control doing something stupid.
Pics are about a week old. Kids are dumb. This kid did this with a damn Cavalier, but I've seen plenty that did it with LS1s and 2.8s and everything in between.
I never bought the "Big-Mouth Manifold," but I can tell some of you did
I lived in Mpls '80-2000, and knew Myron. I remember in '95 or so, he was renting out the Diacom software and cable for $50. I went to him in '94, he said: "put SFC, headers and cat-back exhaust then come back." I was surprised that he wouldn't sell me anything, or take my money. Later, I respected him for his forthright advice. I bought the SLP, rather than the Gale Banks through him.
One time, I drove down and the house right next door had exploded the night before due to a gas leak. No one died, but the house was pick-up sticks.
He was a nice enough guy, and the business has grown with the times.
Big mouth was supposedly just a eddy intake that was port matched to their big tube runners. They charged 100$ more i believe for it making it not really worth it. Tpis always been overpriced imo. But its well proven that L98’s respond to intake manifold swaps. Tpis miniram works. Stealth ram works. And big mouth base and runner system will drop et at the track. 10-12 whp as shown in the thread i posted.
Again your typical bolt on L98 will gain 30 whp over stock. Good bit of money for that gain but it is what it is
It's been so long since we stayed up all night enjoying each other's company. We should really get together and catch up sometime.
Sincerely,
Oranges
Yeah, making a 17 second slug into a 16 second slug is not quite the same as making a 14.5 car run 13.5. This isn't the TBI board. This isn't the 'TBI go fast tips and tricks' thread. WTF yo?
Except it went from a 15.5 to a 14.5 with the stock cam/stock head L03 under the hood.
I also want to say I can absolutely feel a 0.1 OR 0.2s difference in track times. Then again I have run a lot of passes down the track in the same vehicles and I have always been able to tell when I was about to have a great time slip.
As for TPI being a dog, not hardly. I ran a 15.006 @ 93 mph 1/4 with a F-car LT1 cammed 305 Vortec TPI in a 5,300 lbs G20 van with a 3.08 gear and a stock stalled 700r4. Stock 100K mile 305 long block out of an Express van that I stabbed a LT1 cam into, bolted an edelbrock base to it and the tri-y headers. Dialed in the 7730 ECM.
i can tell you this, i could feel full exhaust and timing mods difference on my L98 car. But i felt a bigger difference in gears and torque converter. I also definitely felt a big difference in holley stealth ram swap over stock tpi
I can't believe people are still having these arguments, and I can't believe you of all people are taking part in it lol. You and I both know the timing tables of the stock L98 code, as well as the lower VE table, and what they both look like. Last time I uploaded a stock L98 bin into my car I think I seen maybe 28* of total timing at wide open throttle lol...
You guys really still believe the TPI injection system caps it at 4500-RPM lol? I'm running the stock TPI system, and I see 6000-RPM. Only real difference being the tune and cam, but I still use the stock runners and 48mm throttle body. I'll spare everyone the "it dropped this and that" crap, does anyone with an intake swap or LSX swap wanna run me locally..?
I can't believe people are still having these arguments, and I can't believe you of all people are taking part in it lol. You and I both know the timing tables of the stock L98 code, as well as the lower VE table, and what they both look like. Last time I uploaded a stock L98 bin into my car I think I seen maybe 28* of total timing at wide open throttle lol...
You guys really still believe the TPI injection system caps it at 4500-RPM lol? I'm running the stock TPI system, and I see 6000-RPM. Only real difference being the tune and cam, but I still use the stock runners and 48mm throttle body. I'll spare everyone the "it dropped this and that" crap, does anyone with an intake swap or LSX swap wanna run me locally..?
- Rob
its absolutely the reason. Its physics. Its induction wave tuning. The long runner length absolutely tunes for low rpm. I have seen it over and over again. My hsr swap immediately moved peak from 4400 to 4800-5000. If there was a way to increase diameter of these runners it would help.
But rpm is how you make power na. Rpm is from shorter runner intakes.
i took a hotcam and ran it on a tpi setup vs lt1 motor. Lt made peak around 6000-6200. Pulled to 6500. Tpi made peak at 4400-4500, dead by 5000. 80 whp difference but slightly different heads and lt was a manual trans so more like 50 whp difference if an auto
if you dyno your 305 all motor i think you will be surprised lol i dont think it pulls as high as you think
its absolutely the reason. Its physics. Its induction wave tuning. The long runner length absolutely tunes for low rpm. I have seen it over and over again. My hsr swap immediately moved peak from 4400 to 4800-5000. If there was a way to increase diameter of these runners it would help.
But rpm is how you make power na. Rpm is from shorter runner intakes.
i took a hotcam and ran it on a tpi setup vs lt1 motor. Lt made peak around 6000-6200. Pulled to 6500. Tpi made peak at 4400-4500, dead by 5000. 80 whp difference but slightly different heads and lt was a manual trans so more like 50 whp difference if an auto
if you dyno your 305 all motor i think you will be surprised lol i dont think it pulls as high as you think
.... lol, are you kidding me???? Everything you said is completely besides the point, and I just did a datalog now as you were writing that, not even looking to pull 6000-RPM because I am just tuning for some fun later on this evening. I can go right back out there and show you 6000-RPM on a STOCK TPI system if you'd like. :shrug:
You asked if i thought tpi limits peak rpm to 4500
You guys really still believe the TPI injection system caps it at 4500-RPM lol?
The answer is peak hp will fall in that 4200-4800 rpm
how is anything of what i said besides the point?
i can show you 6000 rpm on a stock enfine too... i hit near 6500 on my tpi when i accidentally threw the shifter into neutral instead of D. Engine will rev no problem but it aint making power up there I guarantee it
It IS besides the point because for one, you don't even know what gear I am in in terms of kPa, and two you didn't even ask me what size injectors I am running while seeing 56% Duty Cycle at only 5150-RPM. You know I am about ready to run a turbo again, so you should know what size injectors I am running at a minimum. As for the kPa showing 92-kPa, that is because I let off of the throttle just before that caption to show you where I was tuning, no reason to pull 6000-RPM on the street. Again if you want to see 100-kPa and 100-TPS% and 6000-RPM there is absolutely no problem...
Except it went from a 15.5 to a 14.5 with the stock cam/stock head L03 under the hood.
As for TPI being a dog, not hardly. I ran a 15.006 @ 93 mph 1/4 with a F-car LT1 cammed 305 Vortec TPI in a 5,300 lbs G20 van with a 3.08 gear and a stock stalled 700r4. Stock 100K mile 305 long block out of an Express van that I stabbed a LT1 cam into, bolted an edelbrock base to it and the tri-y headers.
A stock 305 TBI automatic Thirdgen is a high 16 second car in stock trim. Do I really need to explain why it's not at all relevant to someone asking about modding a 5.7L Z28 to ramble on about Vortec 305s with a cam, full exhaust, bolted into a Van?
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
Big mouth was supposedly just a eddy intake that was port matched to their big tube runners. They charged 100$ more i believe for it making it not really worth it. Tpis always been overpriced imo. But its well proven that L98’s respond to intake manifold swaps. Tpis miniram works. Stealth ram works. And big mouth base and runner system will drop et at the track. 10-12 whp as shown in the thread i posted.
Again your typical bolt on L98 will gain 30 whp over stock. Good bit of money for that gain but it is what it is
It was a lot of money back then, and it's even more now when your garden variety used Edelbrock TPI base goes for $600 in the classifieds. Runners? $400+. So for a cool grand you can be marginally faster than bone stock. Hmm...
Funny thing is I've got an Edelbrock TPI base in the closet. AS&M runners too. A guy I barely know gave me a 52mm Holley throttlebody, it's there on the shelf too. Headers too, or two? Because there are two sets of them sitting here... I've had the calipers out and measured the Edelbrock base next to a stock base, and without porting the ports are physically the exact same sizes. Pretty sure the runners measure a bit larger, and at least in theory the length might be altered a hair. And well, big throttlebodies we all know don't do anything. I mean this stuff is already paid for, I didn't give as much as what it used to go for, but it's just really not worth it to me to bolt the parts on the car unless I'm doing more than just those parts. Even if I bolted on all the parts I have laying around, a TPI 350 isn't going to suddenly be a 12 second car. For someone who doesn't already have the stuff laying around, I say save your money. I got all this stuff from people that used it briefly and were disappointed. They sold the stuff to me dirt cheap to fund their Stealth Ram conversion or LS swaps.
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
I can't believe people are still having these arguments, and I can't believe you of all people are taking part in it lol.
You best start believin' in troll threads honey, cuz you're already postin' in one. <evil laugh>
It IS besides the point because for one, you don't even know what gear I am in in terms of kPa, and two you didn't even ask me what size injectors I am running while seeing 56% Duty Cycle at only 5150-RPM. You know I am about ready to run a turbo again, so you should know what size injectors I am running at a minimum. As for the kPa showing 92-kPa, that is because I let off of the throttle just before that caption to show you where I was tuning, no reason to pull 6000-RPM on the street. Again if you want to see 100-kPa and 100-TPS% and 6000-RPM there is absolutely no problem...
- Rob
lol the comment on kpa was AFTER your initial response and totally irrelevant and i never even mentioned duty cycle so no idea why that was brought up.
I’ll bite tho. Show me the fuel curve from 4500 to 6000.
lol the comment on kpa was AFTER your initial response and totally irrelevant and i never even mentioned duty cycle so no idea why that was brought up.
I’ll bite tho. Show me the fuel curve from 4500 to 6000.
100% tps says you didnt let off
Then CLEARLY you never tuned EBL like you claim you did. There is a paramater that locks 100-TPS% based on throttle position without the throttle blades being fully extended. I let off, kPa dropped, and TPS% remains at 100%. Ask RBob if you doubt me. As far as everything else you claim... PROVE IT. Don't bullcrap me with PAST experiences, PROVE IT!
I only did one ebl car years ago, never had to play with any parameters to fudge factor tps. That makes absolute no sense but whatever. Its irrelevant
as far as proving? You got alot of ***** telling me that when you have not done anything here
search my posts. Tpi intake cam heads build that did 272 whp. Surprisingly lower than expected. The lt1 i tuned i can get the dyno sheet at the shop but its not really turdgen related so never posted it. 355 whp manual trans. Same cam similar heads same dyno
fyi past experience is exactly why i say what i say lol thats how you draw conclusions
First, the man asked if there's something on modifying the air box or installing a ram air system. I post where it is and then the actual link to the write up.
Second, you string quotes of mine together like I'm recommending and confirming everything in that "How To" section works. I am not.
My reference of "Just those mods and a good exhaust system will really wake up a TPI car" was direct toward the ram air, porting the plenum, adding an AFPR or learning how to do a tune. So, are you saying those mods won't do anything. If so then I'm going to have to invoke the following and break any and all correspondence with you.
Bingo! He would completely be wasting his time, as well as devaluing his third gen. I just don't understand what some of our members are thinking when they mention mods like that, it does absolutely nothing. .
Same question to you - are you saying ram air, porting the plenum, adding an AFPR or learning how to do a tune along with a good free flowing exhaust system won't do anything?
Plus, you also have to fill me in on how he's devaluing the car If he gets a donor air box off eBay to cut up and keeps all his stock parts to put back on later.
Same question to you - are you saying ram air, porting the plenum, adding an AFPR or learning how to do a tune along with a good free flowing exhaust system won't do anything?
Plus, you also have to fill me in on how he's devaluing the car If he gets a donor air box off eBay to cut up and keeps all his stock parts to put back on later.
ram air is proven on ls1 cars. If its done right it will work on tpi systems too. Problem is you gotta build a sealed system
Plus, you also have to fill me in on how he's devaluing the car If he gets a donor air box off eBay to cut up and keeps all his stock parts to put back on later.
BadSS, don't take what I said about devaluing a car so personally. I write what I do to help you guys. Some of us demand perfection from our projects, and some of us have been around long enough to see the mods mentioned as either being made to make a quick buck for a vendor from an ignorant hobbyist, or a free mod intended to mask a problem, not correct one. Kind of like, the IAT pulls timing when a certain temperature is met, and this kills power. The amount of timing being pulled increases as IAT temps increase, and rather than go into the bin and fix it correctly, a free mod is all about throwing more air onto the engine somehow, or anyway, and "hope" it solves the problem by keeping the engine cool enough, long enough, to avoid the IAT problem before it's even started. IAT does this because of unleaded fuel, but what about when running E85 or race gas, which a lot of us do. You think a free mod will help? Yes, maybe and no, because it depends. Things get hot under the hood, especially in the summer, and like I said even running no hood at all isn't really helpful when a brutal sun is beating down on the engine. It's better to fix it in the bin and not have to worry about it, or at least raise the target well above ambient if you still desire some sort of IAT-SA reduction. Do you guys remember all the rage about Granatelli MAF sensors for the LSX? Do you guys know what they even did to give you that seat of the pants feeling when replacing the "stock" MAF sensor? Do you know why people stopped buying them...?
First, the man asked if there's something on modifying the air box or installing a ram air system.
OK
Originally Posted by BadSS
Second, you string quotes of mine together like I'm recommending and confirming everything in that "How To" section works. I am not.
Not really. I'm not misconstruing your words, or taking you out of context, I'm just boiling down a rather large rambling post with a lot of moving parts to it's simplest points to make a direct counter point.
Originally Posted by BadSS
My reference of "Just those mods and a good exhaust system will really wake up a TPI car" was direct toward the ram air, porting the plenum, adding an AFPR or learning how to do a tune. So, are you saying those mods won't do anything. If so then I'm going to have to invoke the following and break any and all correspondence with you.
Yeah, I know. Fabricating a ram air setup, porting the plenum, and installing an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, is going to add up to Jack, and Shi... er.. Stuff, and Jack just left town. Again, they're mods that are going to result in such limited improvement, that most people are not going to be able to quantify any difference in the real world. You do all that ****, and brag about it to your friends, give them a ride and they're not going to feel a difference either. It's a waste of time if someone is looking for a REAL difference.
You'll devalue any mildly collectible car by doing those mods because they're only original once. You can't take something apart, and put it back together, without leaving some traces that you've done so. While those little details may not matter to you, a person with an eye for detail will probably pick up on them. If you show that plenum porting job to a finicky collector they're going to cringe and potentially lose their lunch. Go ahead and tell them it was good for a tenth of a second. It doesn't change that someone went in there and started monkeying around with things. Bust a bolt, crack some plastic, chip some paint, it's all going to happen if you work on stuff, and it's all going to hurt the value.
Not really. I'm not misconstruing your words, or taking you out of context, I'm just boiling down a rather large rambling post with a lot of moving parts to it's simplest points to make a direct counter point. .
BadSS, don't take what I said about devaluing a car so personally. I write what I do to help you guys. Some of us demand perfection from our projects, and some of us have been around long enough to see the mods mentioned as either being made to make a quick buck for a vendor from an ignorant hobbyist, or a free mod intended to mask a problem, not correct one. Kind of like, the IAT pulls timing when a certain temperature is met, and this kills power. The amount of timing being pulled increases as IAT temps increase, and rather than go into the bin and fix it correctly, a free mod is all about throwing more air onto the engine somehow, or anyway, and "hope" it solves the problem by keeping the engine cool enough, long enough, to avoid the IAT problem before it's even started. IAT does this because of unleaded fuel, but what about when running E85 or race gas, which a lot of us do. You think a free mod will help? Yes, maybe and no, because it depends. Things get hot under the hood, especially in the summer, and like I said even running no hood at all isn't really helpful when a brutal sun is beating down on the engine. It's better to fix it in the bin and not have to worry about it, or at least raise the target well above ambient if you still desire some sort of IAT-SA reduction. Do you guys remember all the rage about Granatelli MAF sensors for the LSX? Do you guys know what they even did to give you that seat of the pants feeling when replacing the "stock" MAF sensor? Do you know why people stopped buying them...?
- Rob
I don't disagree with a thing you said here. I worked on these cars when they were new and said earlier had very good results with rather inexpensive mods on a number of 350TPI cars. I promise you I know what works and what doesn't work and wish the hack was available back then.
If you don't understand the larger point of the thread, making claims that these things will really "wake up" a car, without any actual proof, you're just farting in the wind. When you come up with those killer dyno numbers or time slips for a ported plenum, fabricated ram air, and afpr, you know where to find me. Peace Wendy.
If you don't understand the larger point of the thread, making claims that these things will really "wake up" a car, without any actual proof, you're just farting in the wind. When you come up with those killer dyno numbers or time slips for a ported plenum, fabricated ram air, and afpr, you know where to find me. Peace Wendy.
i can tell you a homemade ram air stock maf ran sams as a custom 3.5 cai 3.5” maf withfilter in wheel well lol
also gutted maf screen on a 270 whp head cam tpi car did nothing
You asked if i thought tpi limits peak rpm to 4500
The answer is peak hp will fall in that 4200-4800 rpm
how is anything of what i said besides the point?
i can show you 6000 rpm on a stock enfine too... i hit near 6500 on my tpi when i accidentally threw the shifter into neutral instead of D. Engine will rev no problem but it aint making power up there I guarantee it
why even waste your breathe arguing with some of these fools .. youve been doing this for a long time and know there is no power at 6000 rpm on a tpi setup .. mine is a great example , awesome down low but not much after 5000 rpm and thats with a big mouth intake and as&m runners .. facts are facts and just because its 2018 nothing has changed , lol ..
Sure do, You're 850 miles away sitting behind your keyboard. If you lived closer, I'd invite you over and we could do some before and after mod times. I'll open that invitation up to anyone close enough to Jackson MS with a stock or near stock 350TPI to drop by for a day. All I'd ask is you buy the runner gaskets, AFPR, and ducting for the ram air box (I'll give you the parts list from Home Depot) and help out when needed - still not fully recovered from a recent surgery. If there's really no gain like Wendy indicates, then I'll reimbursement you for the parts. PM me if anyone is interested.
I don't disagree with a thing you said here. I worked on these cars when they were new and said earlier had very good results with rather inexpensive mods on a number of 350TPI cars. I promise you I know what works and what doesn't work and wish the hack was available back then.
Here is a great example of the bin being the problem, and it is something I overlooked, and I have no problem admitting. I was playing around with an Audi Turbo last night, and was of course datalogging the whole thing as I normally try to do. The engine was responding very very well, and was pretty impressive for what it is naturally aspirated for older vs newer technology. Lined up again at a stop light after a few blasts, but this time the Audi pulled me pretty bad, and I felt the engine holding back from what it normally does. Even my buddy thought I was spinning.
Little did I know that my timing was being pulled because of a Coolant and IAT bias that RBob reminded me of this morning, and I would have not of even realized that had the temperature not reach what it did. It was pretty high. The average member, when experiencing that at a lower temperature, would have just said to themselves "damn, this TPI needs to go, I need more power and top end", but it was in the bin. The GM code is so damn wacky, this is why a lot of aftermarket systems just stripped the GM code down, and simply ran with it as its' own, while gradually adding their own features and such. Again this is not to say that TPI is where it's at, because it isn't. It's just nine out of ten times from years back, members abandoned TPI for reasons having to the with the stock code, unbeknownst to them...
I know my 89 back in the day would lose over .6 in the quarter in back to back to back passes on the street when i had a fan switch fail and didn't catch it... i ugh mean unsanctioned timing events..
BadSS, don't take what I said about devaluing a car so personally. I write what I do to help you guys. Some of us demand perfection from our projects, and some of us have been around long enough to see the mods mentioned as either being made to make a quick buck for a vendor from an ignorant hobbyist, or a free mod intended to mask a problem, not correct one. Kind of like, the IAT pulls timing when a certain temperature is met, and this kills power. The amount of timing being pulled increases as IAT temps increase, and rather than go into the bin and fix it correctly, a free mod is all about throwing more air onto the engine somehow, or anyway, and "hope" it solves the problem by keeping the engine cool enough, long enough, to avoid the IAT problem before it's even started. IAT does this because of unleaded fuel, but what about when running E85 or race gas, which a lot of us do. You think a free mod will help? Yes, maybe and no, because it depends. Things get hot under the hood, especially in the summer, and like I said even running no hood at all isn't really helpful when a brutal sun is beating down on the engine. It's better to fix it in the bin and not have to worry about it, or at least raise the target well above ambient if you still desire some sort of IAT-SA reduction. Do you guys remember all the rage about Granatelli MAF sensors for the LSX? Do you guys know what they even did to give you that seat of the pants feeling when replacing the "stock" MAF sensor? Do you know why people stopped buying them...?
- Rob
Originally Posted by BadSS
I don't disagree with a thing you said here. I worked on these cars when they were new and said earlier had very good results with rather inexpensive mods on a number of 350TPI cars. I promise you I know what works and what doesn't work and wish the hack was available back then.
That's interesting stuff.
Have either of you had the opportunity to read a "performance chip" of the day, like a Hypertech Stage 1 vs Hypertech Stage 2 vs the factory PROM? If so, I'd like your take.
why even waste your breathe arguing with some of these fools .. youve been doing this for a long time and know there is no power at 6000 rpm on a tpi setup .. mine is a great example , awesome down low but not much after 5000 rpm and thats with a big mouth intake and as&m runners .. facts are facts and just because its 2018 nothing has changed , lol ..
I beg to differ in opinon. I have run stock runners, ASM oversize and Siamese ported SLPs on multiple setups on the dyno. On a Vortec 305 with ported heads that had 1.94/1.60 valves installed, a factory 203/210 @ .050 LT4 cam and 1.6 rockers the stock runners will level off in the 5,600 rpm range but the HP will stay completely flat all the way to 6,500+. On a 350 the stock runners will stay flat until 5,800-6,000 rpm. The ASM runners will move the peak upward from 4,800-5,000 up to about 5,200-5,400 and the power will stay flat until 6,200 rpm. The Siamese runners will trade some low-end torque and the peak moved up to 5,600-5,800 rpm and the power stayed flat until past fuel cut-off. I had a ported 3817 base, Siamese ported SLPs, fully ported plenum on a 10.5:1 vortec head 383 with a small 214/218 @ .050 on a 114 LSA roller cam that made peak HP at 5,600 and had a flat HP peak from 5,600-6,200 rpm. 380 RWHP AND 450 RWTQ OUT OF THAT ONE
I have a 1987 Firebird I recently setup with a 10:1 355, LT4 Hotcam, Stock SD TPI system, LT1 injectors, tuned by me with my Autoprom, 1 3/4" primary shorty headers, dual 2.5" exhaust with a X-pipe, custom CAI, 4th gen cooling fans, and 170*F thermostat. The engine is backed to a TH400 with 2,800 rpm stall 9.5" converter and a 9-bolt limited slip 2.77 rear end. The car launches hard and the engine has ZERO difficulty pulling to the 5,800 rpm shift points. The car has run a best pass at full weight of 8.20 @ 85 mph in the 1/8th in 2,800 DA NO LESS with the stock intake base, stock runners and a plenum with the egr diffusers ported out.. The power in this car peaks at 5,200 and stays completely flat up until the ecm fuel kill at 5,800. From what I remember while tuning the car runs 2,500 rpm @ 75 mph on the highway, the owner is getting about 26 mpg with lean cruise enabled @ 16.5:1 air/fuel ratio and 52* of timing. This car on a conservative street tune made 280 RWHP through the TH400 with its loose converter on 91 octane at 12:1 air/fuel ratio and 32* total timing. I have since retuned the car to bring it up to about 13.2:1 air/fuel ratio and 34* total timing which it responded noticeably too. Even before the retune based on the previous track times and my track experience with cooler weather, in good weather this car would run 7.90s @ 88+ mph in good weather and that is good for a mid 12s 1/4 mile run.
Have either of you had the opportunity to read a "performance chip" of the day, like a Hypertech Stage 1 vs Hypertech Stage 2 vs the factory PROM? If so, I'd like your take.
Aftermarket chips allow for stock O2 correction, there really isn't much they can do VE wise. Stock bins have have total timing at 30* to 28* SA depending on the injection system, and once you see CTS temps reach over 150 degrees nearing Closed Loop enable, there is an additional amount of timing taken out at wide open throttle dependent on IAT and CTS data. Bottom line, you can advance your distributor by hand a few degrees and run your stock chip at a cold temperature, say 80 degrees. Then compare it to the Hypertech at fully warmed up. No difference whatsoever. That's what those chips do, more spark advance, and less timing pull, at normal operating temperature. If you're a tuner, you can burn a chip to do the exact same thing...
As for Ray Jr, I just caught your response from what Fast355 quoted. Here's a tip. In reference to your hero, any fool can slap a turbo onto an engine, or tune an engine, what matters is that the engine lives and can still be used as an example as viable proof. Where is it? As for your engine, well, lets just say I don't blame the setup. All the best...
08-09-2018, 05:27 PM
